Race and the Juvenile Justice System

[Coyote]

So which is it...a racial bias or individual behavior or both?

Background -- Race as a Factor in Juvenile Arrests

Some observers argue that the justice system is biased against minority offenders (the race-related selection bias perspective). With regard to juvenile justice, these observers often point to the fact that African American youth are more likely to be arrested than other youth. In 1997, for example, 44 percent of juvenile arrests for violent crimes involved African American youth, although African Americans represented only 15 percent of the national juvenile population at the time (Snyder, 1998). In 1997, minorities accounted for 67 percent of juveniles committed to public facilities nationwide—nearly twice their representation in the juvenile population (Snyder and Sickmund, 1999). In addition, national data show that minority juvenile offenders are more likely than white non-Hispanic offenders to be placed in public (rather than private) custodial facilities (Snyder and Sickmund, 1999).

Other observers argue that, although there are some exceptions, overall the justice system is fair and treats offenders similarly regardless of their race or ethnicity (Wilbanks, 1987). These observers usually note that, unfortunately, minority youth are committing most of the crime and are thus “doing most of the time.” They point to crime-generating conditions such as underemployment, poverty, lack of opportunity, family dysfunction, and other structural factors (see, for example, McCord, 1997; Pope, 1999). Snyder and Sickmund (1999) note that minority youth may be overrepresented within the juvenile justice system because of behavioral and legal factors (e.g., more extensive offense histories)—what can be called the behavioral-legal perspective.

Thus, one perspective focuses on the operation of juvenile justice systems while the other focuses on the behavior of individual juveniles who commit crime. Which perspective is correct? This is a difficult question to answer, and the truth may never be known with absolute certainty. There is research evidence to support both perspectives (see Lovell and Pope, 1991), and the answer may well be a combination of the two, depending on where and how the research is conducted.​

Why are you using statistics/studies from the 1990s?

Because it provided an interesting start for a thread. I'm happy to consider newer stuff if you have it.

 

[bgrouse]

So whose fault was it for using and dealing drugs? Whitey's?

You aren't paying attention are you? White youth who deal drugs get convicted less often, receive shorter sentences, and are given less harsh penalties.

Where are the stats for that?

How many links do you want?

Racial Disparity in Sentencing

Racial Inequality in Youth Sentencing

Looking at one of them:

One out of every 8 African-American youth who are convicted of killing someone will be sentenced to life without parole, however this is only the case for one out of every 13 white youth convicted of murder.

...and? Obviously there's leeway given to judges as to how to sentence someone if the other 7 blacks didn't get life. How do we know the whites faced the same evidence and circumstances?

Statistics indicate that blacks are dumber criminals than whites. Maybe they're dumber when it comes to murder, too.

They do? You sure like to quote statistics a lot without providing any. The only statistic here that is 100% accurate is that you are a racist troll in this thread.

Are you serious? It's pretty well known that blacks commit stupid crimes more often than whites, per capita. Do you really want me to dig up statistics?

 

[Coyote]

Lets stop this madness right here.

• Of all juveniles (persons under the age of 18) arrested in 2015, 62.9 percent were White, 33.9 percent were Black or African American, and 3.1 percent were of other races.

So are we going to argue this using the same shoddy math that we do for everything else when it comes to race?

The OP states that 44 percent of all arrests were on African American juveniles. Who were the other 56 percent? And so then why if whites are the majority arrested is 67 percent of juvenile facilities occupied by blacks? Given the history of the criminal justice system in this country and blacks let's not start pretending that suddenly now race doesn't play a role in this. This is the problem with discussions like this. We focus on the percentages of blacks, ignore the greater percentage of whites and then use an excuse to make the smaller number represent the larger problem. That's garbage. African American youth were 15 percent of juvenile population at the time of this study. So how many numerically were there? If there are 2 million black youth and 20,000 are arrested for crimes that's one percent of he black juvenile population which will equal less than 15 percent of the overall juvenile population.

This is another problem with this argument. You guys will say look, they are 15 percent of he youth population and are arrested almost 3 times the rate of their total population, yet when the actual numbers happen you find out that it is 0.005 percent of the overall population that has been arrested.

You know when you quote stats and information from a source you are supposed to provide a link to cite the source?

Table 43

Do you have a version of that controls for economic class of the parents for juveniles? I still need to look for that.

Why? We need to stop the white judgement upon black families that is occuring in here.

The same judgement can be applied to white families.

 

[Coyote]

Anyone can have children, but being a good parent and a good human being is learned, not instinct. If parents are missing in the equation and the children do not have good role models, then they don't learn morals and behaviors that people from good families in good living conditions do. That isn't genetic, that's from social interactions.

So why aren't they good parents? Is that whitey's fault?

How can you be a good parent if you didn't have a good parent of your own to show you how to be one?

If I asked you to go bake a quiche for me and no one ever showed you how to do it, do you think you could?...

It's a cycle.

A cycle that had to start somewhere. And there has to be a reason why it's not ending despite all the liberal efforts.

Yeah... it had to start somewhere... where in the world could it have started??? Well let me see, could it have started in the 60's and before then? Could it have continued with the war on drugs and the high percentage of Blacks that get jail time for drug offenses compared to other racial groups?

So whose fault was it for using and dealing drugs? Whitey's?

In my community it's mostly whites.

 

[Coyote]

So why aren't they good parents? Is that whitey's fault?

How can you be a good parent if you didn't have a good parent of your own to show you how to be one?

If I asked you to go bake a quiche for me and no one ever showed you how to do it, do you think you could?...

It's a cycle.

A cycle that had to start somewhere. And there has to be a reason why it's not ending despite all the liberal efforts.

Yeah... it had to start somewhere... where in the world could it have started??? Well let me see, could it have started in the 60's and before then? Could it have continued with the war on drugs and the high percentage of Blacks that get jail time for drug offenses compared to other racial groups?

So whose fault was it for using and dealing drugs? Whitey's?

Who controls the manufacturing, shipment and distribution of drugs in this nation?

Whitey.

I suspect it's an interracial business.

 

[bgrouse]

So why aren't they good parents? Is that whitey's fault?

How can you be a good parent if you didn't have a good parent of your own to show you how to be one?

If I asked you to go bake a quiche for me and no one ever showed you how to do it, do you think you could?...

It's a cycle.

A cycle that had to start somewhere. And there has to be a reason why it's not ending despite all the liberal efforts.

Yeah... it had to start somewhere... where in the world could it have started??? Well let me see, could it have started in the 60's and before then? Could it have continued with the war on drugs and the high percentage of Blacks that get jail time for drug offenses compared to other racial groups?

So whose fault was it for using and dealing drugs? Whitey's?

In my community it's mostly whites.

So whitey snorted the coke and the negro got high and went to prison? That's some magical neighborhood you have there!

 

[Coyote]

Yeah... it had to start somewhere... where in the world could it have started??? Well let me see, could it have started in the 60's and before then? Could it have continued with the war on drugs and the high percentage of Blacks that get jail time for drug offenses compared to other racial groups?

So whose fault was it for using and dealing drugs? Whitey's?

You aren't paying attention are you? White youth who deal drugs get convicted less often, receive shorter sentences, and are given less harsh penalties.

Where are the stats for that?

How many links do you want?

Racial Disparity in Sentencing

Racial Inequality in Youth Sentencing

Looking at one of them:

One out of every 8 African-American youth who are convicted of killing someone will be sentenced to life without parole, however this is only the case for one out of every 13 white youth convicted of murder.

...and? Obviously there's leeway given to judges as to how to sentence someone if the other 7 blacks didn't get life. How do we know the whites faced the same evidence and circumstances?

Statistics indicate that blacks are dumber criminals than whites. Maybe they're dumber when it comes to murder, too.

I have yet to see stats on dumbness and criminality. Perhaps you could enlighten us with those stats.

 

[Coyote]

How can you be a good parent if you didn't have a good parent of your own to show you how to be one?

If I asked you to go bake a quiche for me and no one ever showed you how to do it, do you think you could?...

It's a cycle.

A cycle that had to start somewhere. And there has to be a reason why it's not ending despite all the liberal efforts.

Yeah... it had to start somewhere... where in the world could it have started??? Well let me see, could it have started in the 60's and before then? Could it have continued with the war on drugs and the high percentage of Blacks that get jail time for drug offenses compared to other racial groups?

So whose fault was it for using and dealing drugs? Whitey's?

In my community it's mostly whites.

So whitey snorted the coke and the negro got high and went to prison? That's some magical neighborhood you have there!

Not sure what you are banging on about but the users and the dealers are mostly white.

 

[Lewdog]

A cycle that had to start somewhere. And there has to be a reason why it's not ending despite all the liberal efforts.

Yeah... it had to start somewhere... where in the world could it have started??? Well let me see, could it have started in the 60's and before then? Could it have continued with the war on drugs and the high percentage of Blacks that get jail time for drug offenses compared to other racial groups?

So whose fault was it for using and dealing drugs? Whitey's?

In my community it's mostly whites.

So whitey snorted the coke and the negro got high and went to prison? That's some magical neighborhood you have there!

Not sure what you are banging on about but the users and the dealers are mostly white.

Same where I live, and the drug of choice is Meth.

 

[bgrouse]

So whose fault was it for using and dealing drugs? Whitey's?

You aren't paying attention are you? White youth who deal drugs get convicted less often, receive shorter sentences, and are given less harsh penalties.

Where are the stats for that?

How many links do you want?

Racial Disparity in Sentencing

Racial Inequality in Youth Sentencing

Looking at one of them:

One out of every 8 African-American youth who are convicted of killing someone will be sentenced to life without parole, however this is only the case for one out of every 13 white youth convicted of murder.

...and? Obviously there's leeway given to judges as to how to sentence someone if the other 7 blacks didn't get life. How do we know the whites faced the same evidence and circumstances?

Statistics indicate that blacks are dumber criminals than whites. Maybe they're dumber when it comes to murder, too.

I have yet to see stats on dumbness and criminality. Perhaps you could enlighten us with those stats.

So you've never heard of the bell curve?

 

[bgrouse]

A cycle that had to start somewhere. And there has to be a reason why it's not ending despite all the liberal efforts.

Yeah... it had to start somewhere... where in the world could it have started??? Well let me see, could it have started in the 60's and before then? Could it have continued with the war on drugs and the high percentage of Blacks that get jail time for drug offenses compared to other racial groups?

So whose fault was it for using and dealing drugs? Whitey's?

In my community it's mostly whites.

So whitey snorted the coke and the negro got high and went to prison? That's some magical neighborhood you have there!

Not sure what you are banging on about but the users and the dealers are mostly white.

Per capita?

 

[flacaltenn]

Lets stop this madness right here.

• Of all juveniles (persons under the age of 18) arrested in 2015, 62.9 percent were White, 33.9 percent were Black or African American, and 3.1 percent were of other races.

So are we going to argue this using the same shoddy math that we do for everything else when it comes to race?

The OP states that 44 percent of all arrests were on African American juveniles. Who were the other 56 percent? And so then why if whites are the majority arrested is 67 percent of juvenile facilities occupied by blacks? Given the history of the criminal justice system in this country and blacks let's not start pretending that suddenly now race doesn't play a role in this. This is the problem with discussions like this. We focus on the percentages of blacks, ignore the greater percentage of whites and then use an excuse to make the smaller number represent the larger problem. That's garbage. African American youth were 15 percent of juvenile population at the time of this study. So how many numerically were there? If there are 2 million black youth and 20,000 are arrested for crimes that's one percent of he black juvenile population which will equal less than 15 percent of the overall juvenile population.

This is another problem with this argument. You guys will say look, they are 15 percent of he youth population and are arrested almost 3 times the rate of their total population, yet when the actual numbers happen you find out that it is 0.005 percent of the overall population that has been arrested.

You know when you quote stats and information from a source you are supposed to provide a link to cite the source?

Table 43

Do you have a version of that controls for economic class of the parents for juveniles? I still need to look for that.

Why? We need to stop the white judgement upon black families that is occuring in here.

How do you STOP "a judgement"?? You suggesting everyone quit STUDYING IT? Recording the statistics? Having every Govt form start off with a race statement?

Or do you just get up and SHOUT to "stop White judgements"? You don't think it relevant to show that black juveniles are not OVER represented in incarceration just BECAUSE their black? That there might be OTHER FACTORS that explain the overrepresentation?

Lemme Guess.. If not just plain RACISM by evil Whites -- then it might cause YOU to lose your whole lecture that you are bound by Gawd -- to deliver to every racist White person you meet..

 

[bgrouse]

Whites have brains. They make judgments. They analyze the situation. They make good decisions.
He's trying to drag us down to his level where no thought occurs.

 

[Coyote]

Yeah... it had to start somewhere... where in the world could it have started??? Well let me see, could it have started in the 60's and before then? Could it have continued with the war on drugs and the high percentage of Blacks that get jail time for drug offenses compared to other racial groups?

So whose fault was it for using and dealing drugs? Whitey's?

In my community it's mostly whites.

So whitey snorted the coke and the negro got high and went to prison? That's some magical neighborhood you have there!

Not sure what you are banging on about but the users and the dealers are mostly white.

Per capita?

The opioid addiction epidemic has a racial divide—fewer minorities prescribed opioids

 

[Coyote]

Lets stop this madness right here.

• Of all juveniles (persons under the age of 18) arrested in 2015, 62.9 percent were White, 33.9 percent were Black or African American, and 3.1 percent were of other races.

So are we going to argue this using the same shoddy math that we do for everything else when it comes to race?

The OP states that 44 percent of all arrests were on African American juveniles. Who were the other 56 percent? And so then why if whites are the majority arrested is 67 percent of juvenile facilities occupied by blacks? Given the history of the criminal justice system in this country and blacks let's not start pretending that suddenly now race doesn't play a role in this. This is the problem with discussions like this. We focus on the percentages of blacks, ignore the greater percentage of whites and then use an excuse to make the smaller number represent the larger problem. That's garbage. African American youth were 15 percent of juvenile population at the time of this study. So how many numerically were there? If there are 2 million black youth and 20,000 are arrested for crimes that's one percent of he black juvenile population which will equal less than 15 percent of the overall juvenile population.

This is another problem with this argument. You guys will say look, they are 15 percent of he youth population and are arrested almost 3 times the rate of their total population, yet when the actual numbers happen you find out that it is 0.005 percent of the overall population that has been arrested.

You know when you quote stats and information from a source you are supposed to provide a link to cite the source?

Table 43

Do you have a version of that controls for economic class of the parents for juveniles? I still need to look for that.

Why? We need to stop the white judgement upon black families that is occuring in here.

How do you STOP "a judgement"?? You suggesting everyone quit STUDYING IT? Recording the statistics? Having every Govt form start off with a race statement?

Or do you just get up and SHOUT to "stop White judgements"? You don't think it relevant to show that black juveniles are not OVER represented in incarceration just BECAUSE their black? That there might be OTHER FACTORS that explain the overrepresentation?

Lemme Guess.. If not just plain RACISM by evil Whites -- then it might cause YOU to lose your whole lecture that you are bound by Gawd -- to deliver to every racist White person you meet..

I think the evidence indicates multiple reasons for their over representation - including race.

 

[Coyote]

Whites have brains. They make judgments. They analyze the situation. They make good decisions.
He's trying to drag us down to his level where no thought occurs.

No more than you are. All you're doing is posting mumbo jumbo claims about genetic intelligence to blame for things that really have complex causalities.

 

[bgrouse]

So whose fault was it for using and dealing drugs? Whitey's?

In my community it's mostly whites.

So whitey snorted the coke and the negro got high and went to prison? That's some magical neighborhood you have there!

Not sure what you are banging on about but the users and the dealers are mostly white.

Per capita?

The opioid addiction epidemic has a racial divide—fewer minorities prescribed opioids

First you said "the users and the dealers." Now you are focusing strictly on Opioids.

I have no interest in discussing this with someone as disingenuous as you.

 

[IM2]

Lets stop this madness right here.

• Of all juveniles (persons under the age of 18) arrested in 2015, 62.9 percent were White, 33.9 percent were Black or African American, and 3.1 percent were of other races.

So are we going to argue this using the same shoddy math that we do for everything else when it comes to race?

The OP states that 44 percent of all arrests were on African American juveniles. Who were the other 56 percent? And so then why if whites are the majority arrested is 67 percent of juvenile facilities occupied by blacks? Given the history of the criminal justice system in this country and blacks let's not start pretending that suddenly now race doesn't play a role in this. This is the problem with discussions like this. We focus on the percentages of blacks, ignore the greater percentage of whites and then use an excuse to make the smaller number represent the larger problem. That's garbage. African American youth were 15 percent of juvenile population at the time of this study. So how many numerically were there? If there are 2 million black youth and 20,000 are arrested for crimes that's one percent of he black juvenile population which will equal less than 15 percent of the overall juvenile population.

This is another problem with this argument. You guys will say look, they are 15 percent of he youth population and are arrested almost 3 times the rate of their total population, yet when the actual numbers happen you find out that it is 0.005 percent of the overall population that has been arrested.

You know when you quote stats and information from a source you are supposed to provide a link to cite the source?

Table 43

Do you have a version of that controls for economic class of the parents for juveniles? I still need to look for that.

Why? We need to stop the white judgement upon black families that is occuring in here.

How do you STOP "a judgement"?? You suggesting everyone quit STUDYING IT? Recording the statistics? Having every Govt form start off with a race statement?

Or do you just get up and SHOUT to "stop White judgements"? You don't think it relevant to show that black juveniles are not OVER represented in incarceration just BECAUSE their black? That there might be OTHER FACTORS that explain the overrepresentation?

Lemme Guess.. If not just plain RACISM by evil Whites -- then it might cause YOU to lose your whole lecture that you are bound by Gawd -- to deliver to every racist White person you meet..

Facaltenn, I am black and I do say that a lot of this shit you guys have posted is bull shit. I think I can say that with full confidence. What I see here is a bunch of whites judging then black family and they are incorrect in nearly every instance. I think I can say that because I grew up in a black family. I grew up in an neighborhood of black families and I worked with black families as an adult. The fact that we are discussing the incarceration of black juveniles when whites juveniles are and have consistently been the majority of those arrested shows a basis exists here in our minds about blacks.

You smart off a whole lot, but do you understand the first thing abut the psychological effects of racism? Maybe you whites here should try doing that before you smart off like you try here with me. I have and until you do, then you don't understand how I say what I do. Your ass wants to deny racism or that somehow racism has less to do with things here than anything else. That somehow almost all those black kids who got arrested .and are over represented in the faculties for any other reason than racism. The attitudes of the police who detained them. The nature of arrest. The treatment at the arrest. The attitudes of the juvenile officer towards them. The attitude of the courts and to include the judge. None of these are factors as to why these kids are overrepresented I guess. None of them would factor in any type of bad behavior. YOU are an amateur here flacaltenn. I say racism is the reason. And I say that if the kid has a bad attitude towards the courts it is because black kids get treated a little differently in jiuvie and that's based upon my mother fucking experience of dealing with mother fucking juveniles in this situation!

I've saw a black youth get sent to facilities for shoplifting while 6 white kids got house arrest for shooting the windows out of 9 downtown businesses. That's just 2 examples. So don't lecture me when you don't know what you're talking about just because you don't like me talking about whites being racist in the race and racism section of a forum.

You have a study that shows us that 56 percent of those youth arrested are white. But the focus is on the 44 percent who are not. All the judgement is by whites on black families, yet 56 percent of white kids are arrested. So then yes I point that out as a problem because you whites are once again ignoring the larger problem you fuckers have to try judging us.

.

 

[Lewdog]

You know when you quote stats and information from a source you are supposed to provide a link to cite the source?

Table 43

Do you have a version of that controls for economic class of the parents for juveniles? I still need to look for that.

Why? We need to stop the white judgement upon black families that is occuring in here.

How do you STOP "a judgement"?? You suggesting everyone quit STUDYING IT? Recording the statistics? Having every Govt form start off with a race statement?

Or do you just get up and SHOUT to "stop White judgements"? You don't think it relevant to show that black juveniles are not OVER represented in incarceration just BECAUSE their black? That there might be OTHER FACTORS that explain the overrepresentation?

Lemme Guess.. If not just plain RACISM by evil Whites -- then it might cause YOU to lose your whole lecture that you are bound by Gawd -- to deliver to every racist White person you meet..

Facaltenn, I am black and I do say that a lot of this shit you guys have posted is bull shit. I think I can say that with full confidence. What I see here is a bunch of whites judging then black family and they are incorrect in nearly every instance. I think I can say that because I grew up in a black family. I grew up in an neighborhood of black families and I worked with black families as an adult. The fact that we are discussing the incarceration of black juveniles when whites juveniles are and have consistently been the majority of those arrested shows a basis exists here in our minds about blacks.

You smart off a whole lot, but do you understand the first thing abut the psychological effects of racism? Maybe you whites here should try doing that before you smart off like you try here with me. I have and until you do, then you don't understand how I say what I do. Your ass wants to deny racism or that somehow racism has less to do with things here than anything else. That somehow almost all those black kids who got arrested .and are over represented in the faculties for any other reason than racism. The attitudes of the police who detained them. The nature of arrest. The treatment at the arrest. The attitudes of the juvenile officer towards them. The attitude of the courts and to include the judge. None of these are factors as to why these kids are overrepresented I guess. None of them would factor in any type of bad behavior. YOU are an amateur here. I say racism is the reason. And I say that if the kid has a bad attitude towards the courts it is because black kids get treated a little differently in jiuvie and that's based upon my mother fucking experience of dealing with mother fucking juveniles in this situation!

You have a study that shows us that 56 percent of those youth arrested are white. But the focus is on the 44 percent how are not. All the judgement is by whites on black families, yet 56 percent of white kids are arrested. So then yes I point that out as a problem because you whites are once again ignoring the larger problem you fuckers have to try judging us.

.

How do you know who is white here and who isn't?

Sorry boss, but when I say something here it is backed by facts and statistics that I have learned through my education, not just from a small sample size from personal experiences.

 

[IM2]

In my community it's mostly whites.

So whitey snorted the coke and the negro got high and went to prison? That's some magical neighborhood you have there!

Not sure what you are banging on about but the users and the dealers are mostly white.

Per capita?

The opioid addiction epidemic has a racial divide—fewer minorities prescribed opioids

First you said "the users and the dealers." Now you are focusing strictly on Opioids.

I have no interest in discussing this with someone as disingenuous as you.

Why do you have a problem with that? Because he's talking about whites?