Race and the Juvenile Justice System

[Lewdog]

First you said "the users and the dealers." Now you are focusing strictly on Opioids.

I have no interest in discussing this with someone as disingenuous as you.

I see no difference on the drugs used - opiods, meth, cocaine - it varies according to location. In my area it's opiods. My sister in law used (among other drugs) heroin and that is what she died of. I don't understand the distinction you are attempting to make because they are all illegal, highly addictive and very destructive drugs.

One of the things I see most people dying of in my area is Fentynol, either by chewing on patches or dope that is laced with it.

On a personal level I've dealt with this with my husband. It's way over prescribed

Sorry to hear about that.

Ya, it's been a long fight, but it's getting better. The point is drug addiction and dealing crosses racial lines. The thing is...the perception. If it's black gangsta's with gold teeth dealing drugs in innercities - it's bad. If it's white doctors over prescribing (or illegally prescribing) opiods...or whites selling opiods in white neighborhoods...it's ignored.

WHY?

But that's just it, in the criminal justice system if a white 18 year old kid is selling weed he gets a slap on the wrist and let go, but if an inner city Black kid is, he gets sent to jail.

 

[Lewdog]

Not sure what you are banging on about but the users and the dealers are mostly white.

Per capita?

The opioid addiction epidemic has a racial divide—fewer minorities prescribed opioids

First you said "the users and the dealers." Now you are focusing strictly on Opioids.

I have no interest in discussing this with someone as disingenuous as you.

Why do you have a problem with that? Because he's talking about whites?

We were talking about drugs altogether, when he makes this claim:

"the users and the dealers are mostly white"

Then he posts a link to "the opioid addiction."

It's a dishonest way of having a conversation. He makes one claim and then posts evidence to support something else.

Coyote is NOT a he.

 

[bgrouse]

2016 Article...

Racial Disparities in Youth Commitments and Arrests | The Sentencing Project

Could it be because blacks are committing more crime, doing so more stupidly, and reacting in a worse way when confronted?

 

[Coyote]

2016 Article...

Racial Disparities in Youth Commitments and Arrests | The Sentencing Project

Could it be because blacks are committing more crime, doing so more stupidly, and reacting in a worse way when confronted?

Prove it. Show us the data indicating intelligence.

 

[bgrouse]

I see no difference on the drugs used - opiods, meth, cocaine - it varies according to location. In my area it's opiods. My sister in law used (among other drugs) heroin and that is what she died of. I don't understand the distinction you are attempting to make because they are all illegal, highly addictive and very destructive drugs.

Don't be obtuse. The distinction is that you made a claim about drugs in general and then tried to prove it by posting an article focusing on opioids. It would be like if I said "all meats are healthy for you" and then posted a link to an article dealing with strictly the effects of eating chicken breast.

 

[Coyote]

I see no difference on the drugs used - opiods, meth, cocaine - it varies according to location. In my area it's opiods. My sister in law used (among other drugs) heroin and that is what she died of. I don't understand the distinction you are attempting to make because they are all illegal, highly addictive and very destructive drugs.

Don't be obtuse. The distinction is that you made a claim about drugs in general and then tried to prove it by posting an article focusing on opioids. It would be like if I said "all meats are healthy for you" and then posted a link to an article dealing with strictly the effects of eating chicken breast.

Drugs are drugs.

 

[bgrouse]

I see no difference on the drugs used - opiods, meth, cocaine - it varies according to location. In my area it's opiods. My sister in law used (among other drugs) heroin and that is what she died of. I don't understand the distinction you are attempting to make because they are all illegal, highly addictive and very destructive drugs.

Don't be obtuse. The distinction is that you made a claim about drugs in general and then tried to prove it by posting an article focusing on opioids. It would be like if I said "all meats are healthy for you" and then posted a link to an article dealing with strictly the effects of eating chicken breast.

Drugs are drugs.

And you're still a con artist, though not a very good one. Maybe it works on the rats in the negrohood.

 

[IM2]

Facaltenn, I am black and I do say that a lot of this shit you guys have posted is bull shit. I think I can say that with full confidence. What I see here is a bunch of whites judging then black family and they are incorrect in nearly every instance. I think I can say that because I grew up in a black family. I grew up in an neighborhood of black families and I worked with black families as an adult. The fact that we are discussing the incarceration of black juveniles when whites juveniles are and have consistently been the majority of those arrested shows a basis exists here in our minds about blacks.

You just said it yourself. You cannot approach the truth without the numbers. You can quote any number of anectodal statements you want. That resolves NOTHING. It's a science to determine causes. Always is. Not emotion, not stories. So --- YOU quote a FACT. A very substantiated fact that ---

when whites juveniles are and have consistently been the majority of those arrested

I want to cite OTHER facts. Facts that show that RACE and racism is not the sole cause and may not be the LARGEST cause of the disproportionate juvenile Black incarceration rate.. That's how this goes. That's the BASIS of understanding the issue.

From the rest of your post, it's clear you'd be very "uncomfortable" with the facts that other causes PREDICT the juvenile incarceration rates for whites, blacks, hispanics. That's tough. That's life in the world of logic and reason.

You know who else rejects facts that don't fit their stereotyped biases? The White racists. Which we both pretty much despise.. I'm into analysis and fact and reason. That's how I "make judgements". I do not and NEVER HAVE made judgements against groups of people based on stereotypes and hate.

No that is not how this goes. Race and racism is at the root of this situation. I wouldn't be uncomfortable with a damned thing. Ib fact it would be great if the truth was that blacks are overrepresented in the system because of anything else but color. But that's not the case. And what you want doesn't matter. That's t he way this goes. You really can ttell me abut the world of logic and reason when you are expressing illogical comments because of an unreasonable hope.

You seem uncomfortable with the realization that racism is he main cause of this situation. You want to so desperately to find something else. That is what you state in your first sentences, You want facts that show something that race and racism is t the sole cause..Yet even with commitment rates declining blacks are 4 times more likely to be committed than whites, Native Americans 3 times more likely and Hispanics 61 percent more likely than whites. All of these races are far more likely to be committed than whites and yet you want to find facts, any fact that racism is not the sole cause. Flacaltenn all of these groups are just in these rates because pf poverty, or bad parenting, bad behavior, disrespect for the law and all the other things you wish you could find that shows racism is not the main cause while whites kids are just perfectly respectable well manner well raised juvenile delinquents who don't get committed. .This information shows that racism plays a major role in this situation if not the rates of commitment would be more equal among youth of all races given that all races would face the same problems take away racism. But that's not the case now is it flacatenn? That's just not how things are.

Now let me get this out of the way. You are a conservative dittohead. I say this due to your defense of Limbaugh. As such you sincerely believe that someone like me could not survive without racism.. You do not even begin to understand just how much of dumbfuck you must be to actually believe this. The day I can say there is no racism will be the happiest day of my life. You have not ever had to live with the shit and what you believe about it is a bunch of imaginary false misguided white race baited bullshit.

Reality. That's how it goes.

 

[Coyote]

I see no difference on the drugs used - opiods, meth, cocaine - it varies according to location. In my area it's opiods. My sister in law used (among other drugs) heroin and that is what she died of. I don't understand the distinction you are attempting to make because they are all illegal, highly addictive and very destructive drugs.

Don't be obtuse. The distinction is that you made a claim about drugs in general and then tried to prove it by posting an article focusing on opioids. It would be like if I said "all meats are healthy for you" and then posted a link to an article dealing with strictly the effects of eating chicken breast.

Drugs are drugs.

And you're still a con artist, though not a very good one. Maybe it works on the rats in the negrohood.

So...are you saying that drugs used by whites and sold by whites are a different category then drugs used by blacks and sold by blacks?

 

[flacaltenn]

Now is that because of racism? Or is it because they have poor family upbringing? Those parents just don't knw how to raise their kids because they never had good parents themselves. Or they only get to talk to their fathers in prison one a month or so and they look up to the rich guy on the neighborhood who is a drug dealer.This is the kind of shit I have read and its wrong.

Well that's where the numbers and statistics come in. Let's be clear -- ANY "judgement" on juvy incarceration rate CAN BE related to race --- WITHOUT --- the cause being racism.. Simply because of the "other factors" that I've been mentioning and that YOU -- seem to be dismissing out of hand.

So -- Let's take a look at an EXCELLENT study from Brookings..

Ten Economic Facts about Crime and Incarceration in the United States | The Hamilton Project

Let's start with the comment you just made about kids seeing their Dad's in prison...

According to the numbers.. If Black Dad doesn't have a HS diploma, there's a 50/50 chance that his children WILL be seeing on rare occasions thru a prison window. This risk goes down by more than 1/2 if he does. Now notice carefully that there is a RACIAL DISPARITY here. No magnified effect for whites. But that's because of RELATIVE crime rates in the 2 cohorts. AND ---- other factors. LOTS of other factors including the really simple fact of poorer administration of JUSTICE in low income communities. In those communities, a simple traffic violation can ESCALATE into warrants, court dates and jail time. Like in the Ferguson effect.

So why is Black Dad more likely to BE behind bars? The answer is -- he wasn't ALWAYS that more likely to be there. It's been getting ASTRONOMICALLY worse in our lifetimes. Explanation from the link for the next chart.

Specifically, each point reflects the percent chance that a man born within a given range of years will have spent time in prison by age thirty to thirty-four. Notably, most men who are ever incarcerated enter prison for the first time before age thirty-five, and so these cumulative risks by age thirty to thirty-four are reflective of lifetime risks.

Men in the first birth cohort, 1945–49, reached their mid-thirties by 1980 just as the incarceration rate began a steady incline. For all education levels within this age group, only an 8-percentage point differential separated white and African American men in terms of imprisonment risk (depicted by the difference between the two solid lines on the far left of figure 7). As the incarceration rate rose, however,discrepancies between races became more apparent. Men born in the latest birth cohort, 1975–79, reached their mid-thirties around 2010; for this cohort, the difference in cumulative risk of imprisonment between white and African American men is more than double the difference for the first birth cohort (as seen on the far right of figure 7).

These racial disparities become particularly striking when considering men with low educational attainment. Over 53 percentage points distance white and African American male high school dropouts in the latest birth cohort (depicted by the difference between the two dashed lines on the far right of figure 7), with male African American high school dropouts facing a nearly 70 percent cumulative risk of imprisonment. This high risk of imprisonment translates into a higher chance of being in prison than of being employed. For African American men in general, it translates into a higher chance of spending time in prison than of graduating with a four-year college degree (Pettit 2012; Pettit and Western 2004).

If it's RACISM pal --- then THESE NUMBERS SAY -- racism is getting worse -- not better. But over those time segments, the DROPOUT rate skyrocketed for Blacks in inner cities and the problem was largely IGNORED by Political Leadership and then FOUGHT over as a Teacher-Student-Parent war. And finally -- LATELY -- just papered over by the failing schools and administrators by having them FUDGE the graduation requirements to make the numbers look better. I don't think RACISM has gotten that much worse since if Black men GET a HS education -- the gap shows not much "racial bias"..

 

[bgrouse]

So...are you saying that drugs used by whites and sold by whites are a different category then drugs used by blacks and sold by blacks?

No, I'm saying you haven't shown that national opioid use depicts racial proportions sufficiently close to those of all drug use in the nation. Let me give you an example:

A country has 200 residents.
100 are black and 100 are white.
1 white and 0 blacks use opioids.
100 blacks and 0 whites use crack.

You say "100% of opium users are white" (a statement that, on its own, is correct) in a discussion dealing with national drug use in general.

It's disingenuous.

 

[flacaltenn]

A couple other charts from the Brookings Study that pertain more specifically to juveniles.

According to Brookings, there is not the economic effect that I seem to have remembered. There IS an economic disparity for NON drug crimes, but it's not HUGE. Hardly ANY for drug crimes. Maybe I need to read more details about how this was compiled.

But ONE effect on juveniles is their EXPOSURE as VICTIMS of violent crimes. Gangs and other forms of intimidation have a huge effect on this. And experiencing and dodging crime is certainly a handicap in growing up straight. To be clear -- this chart is NOT BY RACE. The ONLY variable is economic status. So it has NO racial component to it..

 

[Coyote]

So...are you saying that drugs used by whites and sold by whites are a different category then drugs used by blacks and sold by blacks?

No, I'm saying you haven't shown that national opioid use depicts racial proportions sufficiently close to those of all drug use in the nation. Let me give you an example:

A country has 200 residents.
100 are black and 100 are white.
1 white and 0 blacks use opioids.
100 blacks and 0 whites use crack.

You say "100% of opium users are white" (a statement that, on its own, is correct) in a discussion dealing with national drug use in general.

It's disingenuous.

It is not correct nor is it what I said.

Drug use is a regional problem. Not a national one. It has more to do with ecomomic factors then racial ones.

 

[IM2]

2016 Article...

Racial Disparities in Youth Commitments and Arrests | The Sentencing Project

Between 2003 and 2013 (the most recent data available), the rate of youth committed to juvenile facilities after an adjudication of delinquency fell by 47 percent.1) Every state witnessed a drop in its commitment rate, including 19 states where the commitment rates fell by more than half.2) Despite this remarkable achievement, the racial disparities endemic to the juvenile justice system did not improve over these same 10 years. Youth of color remain far more likely to be committed than white youth. Between 2003 and 2013, the racial gap between black and white youth in secure commitment increased by 15%.

Both white youth and youth of color attained substantially lower commitment rates over these 10 years. For white juveniles, the rate fell by 51 percent (140 to 69 per 100,000); for black juveniles, it fell 43 percent (519 to 294 per 100,000). The combined effect was to increase the commitment disparity over the decade. The commitment rate for Hispanic juveniles fell by 52 percent (230 to 111), and the commitment rate for American Indian juveniles by 28 percent (354 to 254).


As of 2013, black juveniles were more than four times as likely to be committed as white juveniles, Americans Indian juveniles were more than three times as likely, and Hispanic juveniles were 61 percent more likely.


Another measurement of disproportionate minority confinement is to compare the committed population to the population of American youth.3) Slightly more than 16 percent of American youth are African American. Between 2003 and 2013, the percentage of committed juveniles who were African American grew from 38 percent to 40 percent. Roughly 56 percent of all American youth are white (non-Hispanic). Between 2003 and 2013, the percent of committed juveniles who were white fell from 39 percent to 32 percent.4)


As discussed below, growing disparities in arrests have driven the commitment disparities. Between 2003 and 2013, white juveniles arrest rates (already half that of black juveniles) fell by 49 percent while black juveniles arrest rates fell by 31 percent. While other levers in the juvenile justice system (such as processing in juvenile courts) are replete with disparate outcomes, most of those points of contact are no more disparate than they were 10 years prior. The growth in commitment disparities begins with the growth in arrest disparities.

Sorry, but apparently the information you share and your opinion doesn't matter unless you are Black.

You see this is the problem with those like you. I do think I can speak on this better than you because I am black and have worked with black juveniles. You want to make smart assed comments but these things do show why these things happen. You want to make smart assed comments but I never said no one else opinion counts, I HAVE said that what you have assessed as reasons for this is wrong and from my perspective of being raised on a black family,l lived in a community of back families and working with black families none of what you guys stated as causes is the reason. So we know that backs kids are still committed far more than whites and that every non white youth in America is more likely to be committed than whites. So why is that? We know the numbers but why does it happen? Every race is at least 61 percent more likely to be committed to youth facilities than whites? Now is that because of racism? Or is it because they have poor family upbringing? Those parents just don't knw how to raise their kids because they never had good parents themselves. Or they only get to talk to their fathers in prison one a month or so and they look up to the rich guy on the neighborhood who is a drug dealer.This is the kind of shit I have read and its wrong.

I'm not scared to answer shit, I was just tired of being challenged by a bunch of uneducated people about my knowledge. Since I bought it up to you, my masters is in sociology, I have 32 years of work experience in social services. The evidence you has spoke on thus far lacks because parenting has little to do with the high rates of arrest and incarceration of non white youth.

Smart assed comments? I said it like it is. You said because you are Black our opinions and statements based on stats and facts are wrong, and your's are right.

Your degree is in Sociology. Mine is in Criminal Justice. I've worked with incarcerated Blacks. I'm about to go to Grad school for Criminology at one of the top Criminal Justice Universities in the country. I'm sorry but... I'm far from uneducated on this subject.

Edit to add: "Funny you would make the comment "Those like you." Coming from a person that has been complaining about stereotypes.

It's funny how some whites like to conflate things. Those like you does not stereotype the entire white race,

I said what I did and meant it. You can go to the greatest criminal justice school of all time but if you are not black how are you able to comment on the black family? Have you lived in one? .

According to the last census there were 21.5 million black men in this nation 6 percent are in prison. So the how are all those black kids seeing their father maybe once a month because they visit them in prison?

Part of reforming the criminal justice system is in reforming those in criminal justice studies.

So let me end this way. I'm not saying blacks are perfect, but I do think that being black that I should not have to be told how wrong I am about things blacks face by people who are not.

 

[Lewdog]

2016 Article...

Racial Disparities in Youth Commitments and Arrests | The Sentencing Project

Between 2003 and 2013 (the most recent data available), the rate of youth committed to juvenile facilities after an adjudication of delinquency fell by 47 percent.1) Every state witnessed a drop in its commitment rate, including 19 states where the commitment rates fell by more than half.2) Despite this remarkable achievement, the racial disparities endemic to the juvenile justice system did not improve over these same 10 years. Youth of color remain far more likely to be committed than white youth. Between 2003 and 2013, the racial gap between black and white youth in secure commitment increased by 15%.

Both white youth and youth of color attained substantially lower commitment rates over these 10 years. For white juveniles, the rate fell by 51 percent (140 to 69 per 100,000); for black juveniles, it fell 43 percent (519 to 294 per 100,000). The combined effect was to increase the commitment disparity over the decade. The commitment rate for Hispanic juveniles fell by 52 percent (230 to 111), and the commitment rate for American Indian juveniles by 28 percent (354 to 254).


As of 2013, black juveniles were more than four times as likely to be committed as white juveniles, Americans Indian juveniles were more than three times as likely, and Hispanic juveniles were 61 percent more likely.


Another measurement of disproportionate minority confinement is to compare the committed population to the population of American youth.3) Slightly more than 16 percent of American youth are African American. Between 2003 and 2013, the percentage of committed juveniles who were African American grew from 38 percent to 40 percent. Roughly 56 percent of all American youth are white (non-Hispanic). Between 2003 and 2013, the percent of committed juveniles who were white fell from 39 percent to 32 percent.4)


As discussed below, growing disparities in arrests have driven the commitment disparities. Between 2003 and 2013, white juveniles arrest rates (already half that of black juveniles) fell by 49 percent while black juveniles arrest rates fell by 31 percent. While other levers in the juvenile justice system (such as processing in juvenile courts) are replete with disparate outcomes, most of those points of contact are no more disparate than they were 10 years prior. The growth in commitment disparities begins with the growth in arrest disparities.

Sorry, but apparently the information you share and your opinion doesn't matter unless you are Black.

You see this is the problem with those like you. I do think I can speak on this better than you because I am black and have worked with black juveniles. You want to make smart assed comments but these things do show why these things happen. You want to make smart assed comments but I never said no one else opinion counts, I HAVE said that what you have assessed as reasons for this is wrong and from my perspective of being raised on a black family,l lived in a community of back families and working with black families none of what you guys stated as causes is the reason. So we know that backs kids are still committed far more than whites and that every non white youth in America is more likely to be committed than whites. So why is that? We know the numbers but why does it happen? Every race is at least 61 percent more likely to be committed to youth facilities than whites? Now is that because of racism? Or is it because they have poor family upbringing? Those parents just don't knw how to raise their kids because they never had good parents themselves. Or they only get to talk to their fathers in prison one a month or so and they look up to the rich guy on the neighborhood who is a drug dealer.This is the kind of shit I have read and its wrong.

I'm not scared to answer shit, I was just tired of being challenged by a bunch of uneducated people about my knowledge. Since I bought it up to you, my masters is in sociology, I have 32 years of work experience in social services. The evidence you has spoke on thus far lacks because parenting has little to do with the high rates of arrest and incarceration of non white youth.

Smart assed comments? I said it like it is. You said because you are Black our opinions and statements based on stats and facts are wrong, and your's are right.

Your degree is in Sociology. Mine is in Criminal Justice. I've worked with incarcerated Blacks. I'm about to go to Grad school for Criminology at one of the top Criminal Justice Universities in the country. I'm sorry but... I'm far from uneducated on this subject.

Edit to add: "Funny you would make the comment "Those like you." Coming from a person that has been complaining about stereotypes.

It's funny how some whites like to conflate things. Those like you does not stereotype the entire white race,

I said what I did and meant it. You can go to the greatest criminal justice school of all time but if you are not black how are you able to comment on the black family? Have you lived in one? .

According to the last census there were 21.5 million black men in this nation 6 percent are in prison. So the how are all those black kids seeing their father maybe once a month because they visit them in prison?

Part of reforming the criminal justice system is in reforming those in criminal justice studies.

So let me end this way. I'm not saying blacks are perfect, but I do think that being black that I should not have to be told how wrong I am about things blacks face by people who are not.

Did I say ALL Black kids visit their dads in prison? No I was referring to the large portion of Black youth that go on to be juvenile delinquents. Now who is the one that is talking out the side of their ass?

You keep using statements such as "Like you" or "Those of you," YOU sure as hell don't practice what you preach. I'm sorry boss, but someone doesn't have to be Black to understand racism. That's about as ignorant of a comment that has been made in this thread.

 

[bgrouse]

So...are you saying that drugs used by whites and sold by whites are a different category then drugs used by blacks and sold by blacks?

No, I'm saying you haven't shown that national opioid use depicts racial proportions sufficiently close to those of all drug use in the nation. Let me give you an example:

A country has 200 residents.
100 are black and 100 are white.
1 white and 0 blacks use opioids.
100 blacks and 0 whites use crack.

You say "100% of opium users are white" (a statement that, on its own, is correct) in a discussion dealing with national drug use in general.

It's disingenuous.

It is not correct nor is it what I said.

Why isn't it correct? If the only person using opioids is a single white man, then 100% of opium users are indeed white.

Drug use is a regional problem. Not a national one. It has more to do with ecomomic factors then racial ones.

You have to be rich to afford drugs. I disagree that it's caused by poverty. The most is likely correlation.

 

[Lewdog]

IM2 were all your college professors Black? Or did you tell your White professors they were full of shit and that you couldn't learn anything from them because they can't understand the subject unless they are Black?

 

[IM2]

Now is that because of racism? Or is it because they have poor family upbringing? Those parents just don't knw how to raise their kids because they never had good parents themselves. Or they only get to talk to their fathers in prison one a month or so and they look up to the rich guy on the neighborhood who is a drug dealer.This is the kind of shit I have read and its wrong.

Well that's where the numbers and statistics come in. Let's be clear -- ANY "judgement" on juvy incarceration rate CAN BE related to race --- WITHOUT --- the cause being racism.. Simply because of the "other factors" that I've been mentioning and that YOU -- seem to be dismissing out of hand.

So -- Let's take a look at an EXCELLENT study from Brookings..

Ten Economic Facts about Crime and Incarceration in the United States | The Hamilton Project

Let's start with the comment you just made about kids seeing their Dad's in prison...

According to the numbers.. If Black ad doesn't have a HS diploma, there's a 50/50 chance that his children WILL be seeing on rare occasions thru a prison window. This risk goes down by more than 1/2 if he does. Now notice carefully that there is a RACIAL DISPARITY here. No magnified effect for whites. But that's because of RELATIVE crime rates in the 2 cohorts. AND ---- other factors. LOTS of other factors including the really simple fact of poorer administration of JUSTICE in low income communities. In those communities, a simple traffic violation can ESCALATE into warrants, court dates and jail time. Like in the Ferguson effect.

So why is Black Dad more likely to BE behind bars? The answer is -- he wasn't ALWAYS that more likely to be there. It's been getting ASTRONOMICALLY worse in our lifetimes. Explanation from the link for the next chart.

Specifically, each point reflects the percent chance that a man born within a given range of years will have spent time in prison by age thirty to thirty-four. Notably, most men who are ever incarcerated enter prison for the first time before age thirty-five, and so these cumulative risks by age thirty to thirty-four are reflective of lifetime risks.

Men in the first birth cohort, 1945–49, reached their mid-thirties by 1980 just as the incarceration rate began a steady incline. For all education levels within this age group, only an 8-percentage point differential separated white and African American men in terms of imprisonment risk (depicted by the difference between the two solid lines on the far left of figure 7). As the incarceration rate rose, however,discrepancies between races became more apparent. Men born in the latest birth cohort, 1975–79, reached their mid-thirties around 2010; for this cohort, the difference in cumulative risk of imprisonment between white and African American men is more than double the difference for the first birth cohort (as seen on the far right of figure 7).

These racial disparities become particularly striking when considering men with low educational attainment. Over 53 percentage points distance white and African American male high school dropouts in the latest birth cohort (depicted by the difference between the two dashed lines on the far right of figure 7), with male African American high school dropouts facing a nearly 70 percent cumulative risk of imprisonment. This high risk of imprisonment translates into a higher chance of being in prison than of being employed. For African American men in general, it translates into a higher chance of spending time in prison than of graduating with a four-year college degree (Pettit 2012; Pettit and Western 2004).

If it's RACISM pal --- then THESE NUMBERS SAY -- racism is getting worse -- not better. But over those time segments, the DROPOUT rate skyrocketed for Blacks in inner cities and the problem was largely IGNORED by Political Leadership and then FOUGHT over as a Teacher-Student-Parent war. And finally -- LATELY -- just papered over by the failing schools and administrators by having them FUDGE the graduation requirements to make the numbers look better. I don't think RACISM has gotten that much worse since if Black men GET a HS education -- the gap shows not much "racial bias"..

Flacaltenn, you want to deny racism but when you start talking about \blacks or any other racial group besides whites racism is a factor. Period. I don't dismiss anything I add. Everything you show here no matter how much you don't like it, Is impacted by racism. .

 

[IM2]

Now is that because of racism? Or is it because they have poor family upbringing? Those parents just don't knw how to raise their kids because they never had good parents themselves. Or they only get to talk to their fathers in prison one a month or so and they look up to the rich guy on the neighborhood who is a drug dealer.This is the kind of shit I have read and its wrong.

Well that's where the numbers and statistics come in. Let's be clear -- ANY "judgement" on juvy incarceration rate CAN BE related to race --- WITHOUT --- the cause being racism.. Simply because of the "other factors" that I've been mentioning and that YOU -- seem to be dismissing out of hand.

So -- Let's take a look at an EXCELLENT study from Brookings..

Ten Economic Facts about Crime and Incarceration in the United States | The Hamilton Project

Let's start with the comment you just made about kids seeing their Dad's in prison...

According to the numbers.. If Black ad doesn't have a HS diploma, there's a 50/50 chance that his children WILL be seeing on rare occasions thru a prison window. This risk goes down by more than 1/2 if he does. Now notice carefully that there is a RACIAL DISPARITY here. No magnified effect for whites. But that's because of RELATIVE crime rates in the 2 cohorts. AND ---- other factors. LOTS of other factors including the really simple fact of poorer administration of JUSTICE in low income communities. In those communities, a simple traffic violation can ESCALATE into warrants, court dates and jail time. Like in the Ferguson effect.

So why is Black Dad more likely to BE behind bars? The answer is -- he wasn't ALWAYS that more likely to be there. It's been getting ASTRONOMICALLY worse in our lifetimes. Explanation from the link for the next chart.

Specifically, each point reflects the percent chance that a man born within a given range of years will have spent time in prison by age thirty to thirty-four. Notably, most men who are ever incarcerated enter prison for the first time before age thirty-five, and so these cumulative risks by age thirty to thirty-four are reflective of lifetime risks.

Men in the first birth cohort, 1945–49, reached their mid-thirties by 1980 just as the incarceration rate began a steady incline. For all education levels within this age group, only an 8-percentage point differential separated white and African American men in terms of imprisonment risk (depicted by the difference between the two solid lines on the far left of figure 7). As the incarceration rate rose, however,discrepancies between races became more apparent. Men born in the latest birth cohort, 1975–79, reached their mid-thirties around 2010; for this cohort, the difference in cumulative risk of imprisonment between white and African American men is more than double the difference for the first birth cohort (as seen on the far right of figure 7).

These racial disparities become particularly striking when considering men with low educational attainment. Over 53 percentage points distance white and African American male high school dropouts in the latest birth cohort (depicted by the difference between the two dashed lines on the far right of figure 7), with male African American high school dropouts facing a nearly 70 percent cumulative risk of imprisonment. This high risk of imprisonment translates into a higher chance of being in prison than of being employed. For African American men in general, it translates into a higher chance of spending time in prison than of graduating with a four-year college degree (Pettit 2012; Pettit and Western 2004).

If it's RACISM pal --- then THESE NUMBERS SAY -- racism is getting worse -- not better. But over those time segments, the DROPOUT rate skyrocketed for Blacks in inner cities and the problem was largely IGNORED by Political Leadership and then FOUGHT over as a Teacher-Student-Parent war. And finally -- LATELY -- just papered over by the failing schools and administrators by having them FUDGE the graduation requirements to make the numbers look better. I don't think RACISM has gotten that much worse since if Black men GET a HS education -- the gap shows not much "racial bias"..

Flacaltenn, you want to deny racism but when you start talking about \blacks or any other racial group besides whites racism is a factor. Period. I don't dismiss anything I add. Everything you show here no matter how much you don't like it, Is impacted by racism. .

 

[flacaltenn]

No that is not how this goes. Race and racism is at the root of this situation. I wouldn't be uncomfortable with a damned thing

You just contradicted yourself. Because you've made up mind. And if you're not CORRECT - or not FULLY correct -- you WOULD be disappointed if RACISM wasn't the total cause of your angers.

You really can ttell me abut the world of logic and reason when you are expressing illogical comments because of an unreasonable hope.

Oh I have HOPE... But it's not REALLY in my hands. I can get Govt to work properly. Get the necessary Crim. Justice Reforms and more efficient user-friendly govt that doesn't try to run Ferguson like a rich white suburb runs. Or try to use the Crim. Justice System as an INCOME generator. But I can't change the fact that Blacks want to REMAIN in the decaying inner cities when America is such a big place. Or that SOMETHING in the "NEW Black Culture" has gotten a LOT crappier since the 60s when so many barriers to entering integration and equality were knocked down. To me -- my "racism" is that the FREER and more EQUAL the country MAKES the Black community -- there seems to be an increasing coarseness, violence, and acceptance of victimhood that invades the GREAT Black culture and resolve that GOT YOU to the 60s.... And replaces the "dream"...

You seem uncomfortable with the realization that racism is he main cause of this situation. You want to so desperately to find something else. That is what you state in your first sentences, You want facts that show something that race and racism is t the sole cause..Yet even with commitment rates declining blacks are 4 times more likely to be committed than whites, Native Americans 3 times more likely and Hispanics 61 percent more likely than whites.

Of course racism is not the sole cause. It's education. It's growing up in violence and crime. It's the different kind of racism practiced by inner city schools of "Low Expectations" for Black children. And using those children who need EDUCATION NOW as pawns in political disputes. Because THEIR education is solely dependent on the Public services. Plenty of other mitigating factors.

Look -- Freedom of discussion at places like USMB VALIDATES the continuing presence of racism. We have some in these threads. CLEARLY in the open. But racism is NOT getting worse. And yet the problems of Black incarceration IS. I just showed you that.