racist cartoon? or not?

[Uncensored2008]

No, but it is right on the nose.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Only a stupid fuck would see it as racist.

Hi bigrebnc1775
Maybe you can explain to me what Pogo and I can't seem to agree on either.

The reason I see the cartoon as playing on racial stereotypes
is that the cartoonist knows that MOST people are going to interpret
the people outside the window with brown skin as Mexican or Latino/Hispanic considered a "Race"
and MOST people are going to interpret the people inside the house as WHITE Americans.

So that's what I mean by this cartoon depicting RACE and racially charged
stereotypes in the Immigration debate, where MOST people are arguing about Mexicans.
So that is the predominant association, and this Cartoonist knows this.

Now where I think we're going wrong:
I'm not saying the Cartoonist is a racist.
the Cartoonist can be just PRESENTING the issue in the media that
EVERYONE knows is being debated and dividing people.

We ALL know that the most common perception is
"White Americans divided over Mexicans coming here illegally"
as the predominant image of the Immigration debate.
[Even though there are Latino's against illegal immigration
and there are many Whites who support amnesty and help for immigrants to continue.]

So I'm perfectly okay with saying the Cartoon
portrays the racist division, WITHOUT saying the Cartoonist is racist and WITHOUT
denying the skin color references or saying the the people interpreting it to be race
are making an issue where there isn't one. The cartoon deliberately depicted this.

The depiction of Mexicans, Latino's and race is ALREADY exploited
in the Immigration debate, and the cartoon clearly depicts that to me
by making the people inside the house white or light skinned
and making the people outside the window brown or darker skinned.

This is designed to portray those racial stereotypes already out
there and in people's heads, regardless what the intent of the Cartoonist is to invoke those racial references,
the Cartoon CLEARLY plays on them, using white/brown skin tone to make that distinction!

It's a cartoon it's meant to be funny

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear

And this has to be racism, as it depicts the mulatto maniac in full bloom!

Dear Vigilante:
Normally I agree with your posts.

Here, the OP cartoon clearly shows White skinned people inside
and Brown skinned people outside.

Where are the depictions above showing
the White or Lighter color Americans vs. Brown or Darker skin Immigrants.
as in the Cartoon that was called racist?

 

[emilynghiem]

It's a cartoon it's meant to be funny

Yes, but doesn't the color of the people inside the house as White or lighter skin
and the color of people outside the window as Brown or darker skin
imply "race."

As I posted to Pogo, I have no problem admitting where things show racial bias.
I posted my poem that is "racist" even though it is meant to be funny.
It even includes Green for Martians which is a stereotype.

Just because it is meant as funny and to poke fun AT the problems
doesn't mean it doesn't USE racist terms to make the point.

 

[bendog]

Well, does bigoted or racist require the speaker show an intolerance, or belief in some racial or religious superiority, or does it merely require the speaker affirm stereotypes that are not universally, or even usually, true? I think I'd like to rethink my post to pogo that the cartoon is racist. It may not imply superiority or intolerance but merely use a stereotype to make a point. But not in an intentionally dehumanizing way, like calling someone "an illegal." One my favorite archie bunker quotes.

Archie Bunker: That ain't the American Way, buddy. No, siree. Listen here, professor. You're the one who need an American History lesson. You don't know nothin' about Lady Liberty standin' there in the harbor, with her torch on high screamin' out to all the nations in the world: "Send me your poor, your deadbeats, your filthy." And all the nations send 'em in here, they come swarming in like ants. Your Spanish P.R.'s from the Caribboin, your Japs, your Chinamen, your Krauts and your Hebes and your English fags. All of 'em come in here and they're all free to live in their own separate sections where they feel safe. And they'll bust your head if you go in there. *That's* what makes America great, buddy.

Despite all of the misconceptions, he's nor truly hateful of anyone, or implying they are unworthy of being human.

 

[Vigilante]

Dear

And this has to be racism, as it depicts the mulatto maniac in full bloom!

Dear Vigilante:
Normally I agree with your posts.

Here, the OP cartoon clearly shows White skinned people inside
and Brown skinned people outside.

Where are the depictions above showing
the White or Lighter color Americans vs. Brown or Darker skin Immigrants.
as in the Cartoon that was called racist?

Because the color of your skin means nothing when talking about illegal invaders from South of the border! It's THE ACT, and NOT COLOR that is the important topic, it is the deranged that see only COLOR in everything, as they did with THUGS like Michael Brown, and Trayvon Martin! The same REACTION would have happened if they were RED, YELLOW, or little green men from MARS! You let the subversives, and scum lead you and take what they say as FACT, when you know as well as I, SKIN COLOR has absolutely NOTHING to do with robbery, assault, or ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION... don't allow these leftist's and their co-conspirators in the media to take point on this situation. Tell it what it really is about....CRIMINAL ACTIVITY!

 

[emilynghiem]

MORE racism....

Dear Vigilante:

Here, you are adding the issue of political party.
so that's political biases. That's different from Race.

In the cartoon the people inside and outside
were depicted as White/Lighter skinned
and Brown/Darker skinned so this plays on RACE perceptions.

these are related but not the same things.

BTW I stand on Constitutional issues which are often associated with White.
So when I try to enforce Constitutional standards even this becomes racial when I don't intend it to.

Many Blacks had been conditioned to FEAR and avoid "laws of the White man and property"
because it was used to oppress people and keep them poor.

Now the Democrat Party is associated with oppressing and keeping people poor,
as another layer added on to issues of race perception.

Dividing the poor against the rich as "Democrats vs. Republicans"
has become the new "field slave vs. house slave"
to keep people divided by party, class, race, etc.

So I understand these things have become mixed together,
in order to keep people divided as "them vs. us" so the politicians can keep
abusing fear to get money and votes to run for office based on these fears.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

It's a cartoon it's meant to be funny

Yes, but doesn't the color of the people inside the house as White or lighter skin
and the color of people outside the window as Brown or darker skin
imply "race."

As I posted to Pogo, I have no problem admitting where things show racial bias.
I posted my poem that is "racist" even though it is meant to be funny.
It even includes Green for Martians which is a stereotype.

Just because it is meant as funny and to poke fun AT the problems
doesn't mean it doesn't USE racist terms to make the point.

Nope not racist.

 

[emilynghiem]

Because the color of your skin means nothing when talking about illegal invaders from South of the border! It's THE ACT, and NOT COLOR that is the important topic, it is the deranged that see only COLOR in everything, as they did with THUGS like Michael Brown, and Trayvon Martin! The same REACTION would have happened if they were RED, YELLOW, or little green men from MARS! You let the subversives, and scum lead you and take what they say as FACT, when you know as well as I, SKIN COLOR has absolutely NOTHING to do with robbery, assault, or ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION... don't allow these leftist's and their co-conspirators in the media to take point on this situation. Tell it what it really is about....CRIMINAL ACTIVITY!

^ Yes, Vigilante, this is where I agree with you.^

What I mean is the CARTOON ITSELF still depicts the brown skin vs. the white skin.
So it attaches color to the the people inside the house vs. outside the window.

Vigilante if the focus was only about breaking and entering uninvited,
then the people outside could be black, brown, white, etc.
and the people inside could be black, brown, white, etc.

But this is NOT what the Cartoonist used!

I think the Cartoonist was trying to depict the ATTITUDE
and STEREOTYPES on all sides, that the most common
divide represented in the media is White Americans vs. Brown or Latino's/Mexicans.

I am just talking about the Colors used which are going to be interpreted by race.

The Cartoonist deliberately depicted the people inside as White
and the people outside as Brown. KNOWING people are going to read that as race.

I agree with your points that it SHOULD NOT be promoted as a race issue.
But that's NOT what the CARTOON SHOWED and FOCUSED on.

 

[Vigilante]

MORE racism....

Dear Vigilante:

Here, you are adding the issue of political party.
so that's political biases. That's different from Race.

In the cartoon the people inside and outside
were depicted as White/Lighter skinned
and Brown/Darker skinned so this plays on RACE perceptions.

these are related but not the same things.

BTW I stand on Constitutional issues which are often associated with White.
So when I try to enforce Constitutional standards even this becomes racial when I don't intend it to.

Many Blacks had been conditioned to FEAR and avoid "laws of the White man and property"
because it was used to oppress people and keep them poor.

Now the Democrat Party is associated with oppressing and keeping people poor,
as another layer added on to issues of race perception.

Dividing the poor against the rich as "Democrats vs. Republicans"
has become the new "field slave vs. house slave"
to keep people divided by party, class, race, etc.

So I understand these things have become mixed together,
in order to keep people divided as "them vs. us" so the politicians can keep
abusing fear to get money and votes to run for office based on these fears.

Damn it, Emily, you take it for what it is POLITICAL SATIRE! You OVERTHINK these bullshit cartoons, take them for the message they delivered, NOT about race, but about ILLEGAL ACTS...get OFF the race kick that the left continues to use to divide us, IT'S THEIR ONLY TOOL LEFT!

 

[emilynghiem]

Nope not racist.

Hi bigrebnc1775
Is this poem racist, because it was meant to be funny
and to poke fun of racism on all sides:

"Racist Rap: What is White"

What is Black? A Brother's Black
Shoot 'im in the back and say you were attacked.
What is Brown? Latino's are Brown
Working underground to keep the price of labor down.

What is Red? An Injun is Red
Trade homesteads for prison beds
(Tell them Feds me scalp their heads) * (political reference to Leonard Peltier)
What is Green? Martians are Green
Our future can be seen in their funky time machine

What is Yellow? A Jap is Yellow
Suicidal fellow with a bid on Monticello (spoken in a bad Asian accent)
What is White? Why a White
Wush is White!

I call my poem racist.
Because it deliberately depicts and uses racial stereotypes.

Would you call this humor racist?

 

[emilynghiem]

Damn it, Emily, you take it for what it is POLITICAL SATIRE! You OVERTHINK these bullshit cartoons, take them for the message they delivered, NOT about race, but about ILLEGAL ACTS...get OFF the race kick that the left continues to use to divide us, IT'S THEIR ONLY TOOL LEFT!

Dear Vigilante I AGREE with you!!!

But I'm still saying this cartoon USES race depictions to make the statement.

I AGREE the issue is about all the illegal acts, etc.

But the Cartoon DOES USE
WHITE skin for the people inside and
BROWN skin for the people outside

What is wrong with just pointing out the COLOR used
to MAKE the political satire statement?

I am NOT going to deny that wasn't using COLOR, it was!
and COLOR is GOING to be associated with RACE
even if the Cartoonist is not racist, the cartoon DEPICTS that!

 

[Vigilante]

Because the color of your skin means nothing when talking about illegal invaders from South of the border! It's THE ACT, and NOT COLOR that is the important topic, it is the deranged that see only COLOR in everything, as they did with THUGS like Michael Brown, and Trayvon Martin! The same REACTION would have happened if they were RED, YELLOW, or little green men from MARS! You let the subversives, and scum lead you and take what they say as FACT, when you know as well as I, SKIN COLOR has absolutely NOTHING to do with robbery, assault, or ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION... don't allow these leftist's and their co-conspirators in the media to take point on this situation. Tell it what it really is about....CRIMINAL ACTIVITY!

^ Yes, Vigilante, this is where I agree with you.^

What I mean is the CARTOON ITSELF still depicts the brown skin vs. the white skin.
So it attaches color to the the people inside the house vs. outside the window.

Vigilante if the focus was only about breaking and entering uninvited,
then the people outside could be black, brown, white, etc.
and the people inside could be black, brown, white, etc.

But this is NOT what the Cartoonist used!

I think the Cartoonist was trying to depict the ATTITUDE
and STEREOTYPES on all sides, that the most common
divide represented in the media is White Americans vs. Brown or Latino's/Mexicans.

I am just talking about the Colors used which are going to be interpreted by race.

The Cartoonist deliberately depicted the people inside as White
and the people outside as Brown. KNOWING people are going to read that as race.

I agree with your points that it SHOULD NOT be promoted as a race issue.
But that's NOT what the CARTOON SHOWED and FOCUSED on.

In political satire the VISION presented represents the act. since most southern invaders are SLIGHTLY darker skinned, and have FACIAL MAKEUP that differs from European stock, it relays the message about who we are talking about, Their LOOKS is the VISUAL IDENTIFIER of where they come from.... They relay the message in a satirical way, used in America since POLITICS started!

 

[Vigilante]

Damn it, Emily, you take it for what it is POLITICAL SATIRE! You OVERTHINK these bullshit cartoons, take them for the message they delivered, NOT about race, but about ILLEGAL ACTS...get OFF the race kick that the left continues to use to divide us, IT'S THEIR ONLY TOOL LEFT!

Dear Vigilante I AGREE with you!!!

But I'm still saying this cartoon USES race depictions to make the statement.

I AGREE the issue is about all the illegal acts, etc.

But the Cartoon DOES USE
WHITE skin for the people inside and
BROWN skin for the people outside

What is wrong with just pointing out the COLOR used
to MAKE the political satire statement?

I am NOT going to deny that wasn't using COLOR, it was!
and COLOR is GOING to be associated with RACE
even if the Cartoonist is not racist, the cartoon DEPICTS that!

In 2 words we sum it up....SO WHAT! ... Even that GREAT democrat presidential frontrunner summed it up....

You again, allow them to form THEIR version, and you allow them to frame an argument that is fictional!

 

[bendog]

Ah, I knew he'd work a Clinton or Obama into the thread. Sweet! LOL

Imo the cartoon's real fail is that over 1/3 of Americans are black latino or Asian ... and let's not mention the native americans, esp on Thanksgiving ... I mean clearly they had no place in that! (-: So, for Thanksgiving day's cartoon, we have white folks' house getting invaded by a bunch of "browns."

 

[emilynghiem]

In 2 words we sum it up....SO WHAT! ... Even that GREAT democrat presidential frontrunner summed it up....

I agree, so what if the Cartoon shows White vs. Brown skin or lighter versus darker.

You and I AGREE the issues is REALLY whether people are breaking the law or not.

So I don't have any issue admitting the Cartoon uses COLOR to depict
the people inside the house as White/lighter, and outside the house as Brown/darker.

That DOESN'T change the fact the issue is about crime and owing restitution if you break the law!

You again, allow them to form THEIR version, and you allow them to frame an argument that is fictional!

Who is they? I agree with what YOU summarized very well
that the real issue is about CRIME. So I support YOUR way of framing it.

And that doesn't change the fact the Cartoon showed White vs. Brown skinned.
And doesn't change the fact the REAL issue is about breaking the law.

V: I believe in EARNED Amnesty (see Earned Amnesty , where each person owes proportionally for whatever laws they broke, whether immigration or labor laws, gangs or trafficking on an organized-criminal scale.

That should be enforced for ALL people regardless of citizenship, you should pay restitution for crimes committed.

And I still admit that cartoon shows White vs. Brown skin which is going to be interpreted as Race.

V I can agree with the use of COLOR in that Cartoon to depict race,
and still defend your and my views that agree the real issue is crime!

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Nope not racist.

Hi bigrebnc1775
Is this poem racist, because it was meant to be funny
and to poke fun of racism on all sides:

"Racist Rap: What is White"

What is Black? A Brother's Black
Shoot 'im in the back and say you were attacked.
What is Brown? Latino's are Brown
Working underground to keep the price of labor down.

What is Red? An Injun is Red
Trade homesteads for prison beds
(Tell them Feds me scalp their heads) * (political reference to Leonard Peltier)
What is Green? Martians are Green
Our future can be seen in their funky time machine

What is Yellow? A Jap is Yellow
Suicidal fellow with a bid on Monticello (spoken in a bad Asian accent)
What is White? Why a White
Wush is White!

I call my poem racist.
Because it deliberately depicts and uses racial stereotypes.

Would you call this humor racist?

Nope not racist
What difference does it make?

 

[emilynghiem]

In political satire the VISION presented represents the act. since most southern invaders are SLIGHTLY darker skinned, and have FACIAL MAKEUP that differs from European stock, it relays the message about who we are talking about, Their LOOKS is the VISUAL IDENTIFIER of where they come from.... They relay the message in a satirical way, used in America since POLITICS started!

I don't disagree with anything you described above.
So why are we arguing?

Are you just afraid that by agreeing the color tones "imply race"
this opens the door to a bunch of that crappy rhetoric?

I am okay redirecting the focus to be about CRIME and restitution owed for past violations,
especially if anyone is going to get amnesty it should be worked off like credits owed for debts.
WITHOUT having to deny that Cartoon uses Color to depict race.

This is very odd to find myself in the middle here:
Am I the only one who AGREES the real issue is about crime
but yes, the cartoon DOES use color to represent [what is going to be interpreted as] race?

Very strange! to find myself at odds with both Pogo, you and others?

And I bet the people complaining about this cartoon will argue with me also,
since I agree more with the crime issues and holding people accountable to restitution.

 

[emilynghiem]

Nope not racist.

Hi bigrebnc1775
Is this poem racist, because it was meant to be funny
and to poke fun of racism on all sides:

"Racist Rap: What is White"

What is Black? A Brother's Black
Shoot 'im in the back and say you were attacked.
What is Brown? Latino's are Brown
Working underground to keep the price of labor down.

What is Red? An Injun is Red
Trade homesteads for prison beds
(Tell them Feds me scalp their heads) * (political reference to Leonard Peltier)
What is Green? Martians are Green
Our future can be seen in their funky time machine

What is Yellow? A Jap is Yellow
Suicidal fellow with a bid on Monticello (spoken in a bad Asian accent)
What is White? Why a White
Wush is White!

I call my poem racist.
Because it deliberately depicts and uses racial stereotypes.

Would you call this humor racist?

Nope not racist
What difference does it make?

Because it tells me we use the word Racist differently.
I call my own humor racist, as in that poem, but you don't.

So this tells me you and I mean two totally
different things by that word. Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[Vigilante]

In 2 words we sum it up....SO WHAT! ... Even that GREAT democrat presidential frontrunner summed it up....

I agree, so what if the Cartoon shows White vs. Brown skin or lighter versus darker.

You and I AGREE the issues is REALLY whether people are breaking the law or not.

So I don't have any issue admitting the Cartoon uses COLOR to depict
the people inside the house as White/lighter, and outside the house as Brown/darker.

That DOESN'T change the fact the issue is about crime and owing restitution if you break the law!

You again, allow them to form THEIR version, and you allow them to frame an argument that is fictional!

Who is they? I agree with what YOU summarized very well
that the real issue is about CRIME. So I support YOUR way of framing it.

And that doesn't change the fact the Cartoon showed White vs. Brown skinned.
And doesn't change the fact the REAL issue is about breaking the law.

V: I believe in EARNED Amnesty (see Earned Amnesty , where each person owes proportionally for whatever laws they broke, whether immigration or labor laws, gangs or trafficking on an organized-criminal scale.

That should be enforced for ALL people regardless of citizenship, you should pay restitution for crimes committed.

And I still admit that cartoon shows White vs. Brown skin which is going to be interpreted as Race.

V I can agree with the use of COLOR in that Cartoon to depict race,
and still defend your and my views that agree the real issue is crime!

Emily, ONLY if you ALLOW them to depict it as race, instead of depicting them as people from South of the Border... COLOR does NOT make things RACIST, it's the INTERPRETATION of the biased left that does that! THEY PROMOTE RACISM in everything that has to do with people of different heritage, and physical makeup!..Again, it the last bullet in their gun to try and divide us!