Raise Retirement age and cut benefits or not?

[thereisnospoon]

Do we touch Medicare and Social Security or not?

With Medicare, it's all about the government giving money to drug companies and rich doctors. We should gradually raise the retirement age, yes. But as far as cutting what Medicare is willing to pay, that would hurt seniors because the greedy doctors and drug companies would stop accepting Medicare. So the only viable thing there is health reform to cut the costs of healthcare paid by all so that what Medicare pays can also go down. Obamacare was supposed to work on that, but because of the toxic Washington environment they rushed out a Democrat only plan rather than working together with Republicans on the healthcare cost issue.

On Social Security, raise the retirement age, and tax benefits to more well off seniors. It's not fair, but there's no alternative. The money seniors put in to social security is gone and the current generation can't sustain the older generation at the current benefit level.

So fixing medicare is much tougher and must be done hand in hand with healthcare reform.

Bottom line: Huckabee, Christie, Bush, everybody had some good ideas. Get together with Democrats and come up with something.

We need to elect somebody who can do that because neither party will win absolute power in 2016.

Assuming that Social Security is a program that is worth salvaging, then yes. At the minimum, going forward (not retroactively), we will unquestionably HAVE to alter the age for eligibility.

And in the same going forward way, we will need to address how much gets doled out in SS payments.

The alternative will be that the SS system is going to go flat busted broke and then nobody will get diddly dick out of it.

The solutions are all difficult (which is a kind of inevitable outcome of building the foundation on the sand). But the fact that the solutions are difficult and even painful is no longer a sufficient excuse to refuse to address the problems and grapple WITH the alternative solutions.

The part about it "going broke" is a fallacy.

If the trust fund drys up, benefits will be cut to 65% of current in order to match up with incoming revenues. We pay money in every month...it has to go somewhere.

Trust fund?.....

 

[leftwinger]

when I see a number like benefits will be cut to 65% I break out in hives.

 

[francoHFW]

OP- Hell no, Pub dupe. Raise the limit and peg to inflation. Done.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Lets raise the retirement age to 70 because 70 year old people can still stand and work a full 8 hour shift without dropping dead...right? /SARCASM x10

Actually, they can

70 year olds are on better shape than 60 year olds 30 years ago




.

Not if we take away their health care insurance and kill medical r&d. NOt for long at least!

Will catch up with Africa!!!! That is what these people want.

 

[leftwinger]

OP- Hell no, Pub dupe. Raise the limit and peg to inflation. Done.

it ain't that easy is it? IF you contribute more........then that person gets bigger payout, right? So if someone pays in up to 1mil.........they get 10K/mo? is there any savings? If the guy get nothing out of it then this is a TAX increase on the wealthy. right?

Maybe they need a MAX payout per month?

 

[leftwinger]

Lets raise the retirement age to 70 because 70 year old people can still stand and work a full 8 hour shift without dropping dead...right? /SARCASM x10

Actually, they can

70 year olds are on better shape than 60 year olds 30 years ago




.

Not if we take away their health care insurance and kill medical r&d. NOt for long at least!

Will catch up with Africa!!!! That is what these people want.

Matthew you know good an well a 70 year old can keep pushing in shopping carts. No worries.

 

[ScienceRocks]

How about no??? How about we raise taxes on the top 5% and get the fuck out of the middle east????

Amazing how we fuck over people that worked and earned these benefits.

They got away with it in Greece. That was a test. They'll do it here next. Austerity!

And we might elect a socialist too but can Bernie stop them? No because the American people are really stupid.

Austerity has never grown shit. You don't allow your infrastructure to fall into the river and expect a growing economy. Our history shows that building, paving, educating and creating built this nation into the country it is and was.

Every country that is growing like China, India, etc have all been because of infrastructure, science, r&d and education investment. The loserterian movement is going to destroy what is left of our middle class turning us into something very ugly.

Do I think we should do something about the debt? Yes, I do...But the things they want to cut has never caused it and will just weaken our ability to pay it down.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Well Davros the first half,of,this thread was one of the best I have read in a long time. A very good and educating thread. Good ideas on all sides. I agree that I don't think the fix is that hard. It is a shame politics took over a lot of this thread. I am one of those right wingers so some of my ideas might surprise you.

I would gradually raise the retirement age with exceptions for those in manual labor.having said that, if you worked construction for a few years as a young man you would not be eligible.

Have no cap on said contributions, although I would not be against a lower percentage on the higher incomes.

I would,have some retirement income level(say 150 grande) above which no social security would be paid.(that should raise some eyebrows)

No ssi funds could be removed from,the fund by govt unless a ten per cent interest rate was paid on borrowed money.

Strictly enforce the rules of eligibility for all types of payouts. Disability, collecting payments after recipient has passed, etc. when I see some jack off getting a big disability check and then dancing on the table at the bar I get real conservative. Institute severe penalties with fines and jail time for fraud.

More govt education about the costs of social security. I think it was Medicare where it is estimated that a person who works all their life pays in 100 grand they get benefits totaling 350 grand. Even Mathew has to admit that is u sustainable.

Another radical idea I would like to see implemented is one where the contributions of people who die before,they turn 65 is credited to a spouse or immediate family members. Nothing is more patently unfair than the govt. stealing this money.

Now that wasn't hard, was it? Simple ideas, simple solutions, move on to next problem.

Thanks Davros for a good thread!

 

[Care4all]

Do we touch Medicare and Social Security or not?

With Medicare, it's all about the government giving money to drug companies and rich doctors. We should gradually raise the retirement age, yes. But as far as cutting what Medicare is willing to pay, that would hurt seniors because the greedy doctors and drug companies would stop accepting Medicare. So the only viable thing there is health reform to cut the costs of healthcare paid by all so that what Medicare pays can also go down. Obamacare was supposed to work on that, but because of the toxic Washington environment they rushed out a Democrat only plan rather than working together with Republicans on the healthcare cost issue.

On Social Security, raise the retirement age, and tax benefits to more well off seniors. It's not fair, but there's no alternative. The money seniors put in to social security is gone and the current generation can't sustain the older generation at the current benefit level.

So fixing medicare is much tougher and must be done hand in hand with healthcare reform.

Bottom line: Huckabee, Christie, Bush, everybody had some good ideas. Get together with Democrats and come up with something.

We need to elect somebody who can do that because neither party will win absolute power in 2016.

No you do not raise the retirement age! Nobody wants to work till 70.

Wanting is irrelevant. The current system is not sustainable. Changes have to be made. And that means there will be pain and unpleasantness.

But no pain in the Gold Plated GOVT worker "seperate" pension plan? they get "$10K"/mo for life starting earlier (we get to pay it and shut the hell up with our $1K/mo? I get upset.

I never mentioned federal workers. Who BTW should be taken off the federal system and forced to endure the SS system just like the resat of us.
If it's good enough for the public, it's good enough for those who work for the public.

they already pay in to Social security now, and they also contribute towards their federal pension... and they can also can be part of a 401 k with employer matches if i am not mistaken...

retirement was suppose to be a 3 legged stool

SS retirement
plus
work Pension
plus
personal Savings

 

[Carla_Danger]

Do we touch Medicare and Social Security or not?

With Medicare, it's all about the government giving money to drug companies and rich doctors. We should gradually raise the retirement age, yes. But as far as cutting what Medicare is willing to pay, that would hurt seniors because the greedy doctors and drug companies would stop accepting Medicare. So the only viable thing there is health reform to cut the costs of healthcare paid by all so that what Medicare pays can also go down. Obamacare was supposed to work on that, but because of the toxic Washington environment they rushed out a Democrat only plan rather than working together with Republicans on the healthcare cost issue.

On Social Security, raise the retirement age, and tax benefits to more well off seniors. It's not fair, but there's no alternative. The money seniors put in to social security is gone and the current generation can't sustain the older generation at the current benefit level.

So fixing medicare is much tougher and must be done hand in hand with healthcare reform.

Bottom line: Huckabee, Christie, Bush, everybody had some good ideas. Get together with Democrats and come up with something.

We need to elect somebody who can do that because neither party will win absolute power in 2016.

We don't need to raise retirement age or cut benefits, we just need to raise the cap.

 

[auditor0007]

Do we touch Medicare and Social Security or not?

With Medicare, it's all about the government giving money to drug companies and rich doctors. We should gradually raise the retirement age, yes. But as far as cutting what Medicare is willing to pay, that would hurt seniors because the greedy doctors and drug companies would stop accepting Medicare. So the only viable thing there is health reform to cut the costs of healthcare paid by all so that what Medicare pays can also go down. Obamacare was supposed to work on that, but because of the toxic Washington environment they rushed out a Democrat only plan rather than working together with Republicans on the healthcare cost issue.

On Social Security, raise the retirement age, and tax benefits to more well off seniors. It's not fair, but there's no alternative. The money seniors put in to social security is gone and the current generation can't sustain the older generation at the current benefit level.

So fixing medicare is much tougher and must be done hand in hand with healthcare reform.

Bottom line: Huckabee, Christie, Bush, everybody had some good ideas. Get together with Democrats and come up with something.

We need to elect somebody who can do that because neither party will win absolute power in 2016.

Make it a opt in or opt out to start with.

The problem with that is twofold. First of all, current workers foot the bill for current retirees, so you can't just let everyone opt out. Second problem is an even bigger problem. Many would opt out and not save enough for any retirement benefits. Once they stopped working, they would be forced on our welfare roles because they would have zero income.

 

[BluesLegend]

Lets raise the retirement age to 70 because 70 year old people can still stand and work a full 8 hour shift without dropping dead...right? /SARCASM x10

Actually, they can

70 year olds are on better shape than 60 year olds 30 years ago




.

Why would they be in better shape today? True, we have more medical advancements, but that just makes you live longer. It doesn't make you in better shape. The body still wears out after so many abuses.

$18k a year I'm forced to pay into this Washington slush fund (employee/employer 15.3% of $118,500) and now they want to raise the retirement age to 70 hoping I'll drop dead before I collect a dime. Who the hell wants to be working full time at age 70? Have any of these dumb asses in Washington heard of arthritis? I guess if you are a do nothing congressman who sits on your ass every day its no big deal.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Do we touch Medicare and Social Security or not?

With Medicare, it's all about the government giving money to drug companies and rich doctors. We should gradually raise the retirement age, yes. But as far as cutting what Medicare is willing to pay, that would hurt seniors because the greedy doctors and drug companies would stop accepting Medicare. So the only viable thing there is health reform to cut the costs of healthcare paid by all so that what Medicare pays can also go down. Obamacare was supposed to work on that, but because of the toxic Washington environment they rushed out a Democrat only plan rather than working together with Republicans on the healthcare cost issue.

On Social Security, raise the retirement age, and tax benefits to more well off seniors. It's not fair, but there's no alternative. The money seniors put in to social security is gone and the current generation can't sustain the older generation at the current benefit level.

So fixing medicare is much tougher and must be done hand in hand with healthcare reform.

Bottom line: Huckabee, Christie, Bush, everybody had some good ideas. Get together with Democrats and come up with something.

We need to elect somebody who can do that because neither party will win absolute power in 2016.

Make it a opt in or opt out to start with.

The problem with that is twofold. First of all, current workers foot the bill for current retirees, so you can't just let everyone opt out. Second problem is an even bigger problem. Many would opt out and not save enough for any retirement benefits. Once they stopped working, they would be forced on our welfare roles because they would have zero income.

Good points. Another case of attempting to privatize the gains and socialize the losses.

 

[Claudette]

Do we touch Medicare and Social Security or not?

With Medicare, it's all about the government giving money to drug companies and rich doctors. We should gradually raise the retirement age, yes. But as far as cutting what Medicare is willing to pay, that would hurt seniors because the greedy doctors and drug companies would stop accepting Medicare. So the only viable thing there is health reform to cut the costs of healthcare paid by all so that what Medicare pays can also go down. Obamacare was supposed to work on that, but because of the toxic Washington environment they rushed out a Democrat only plan rather than working together with Republicans on the healthcare cost issue.

On Social Security, raise the retirement age, and tax benefits to more well off seniors. It's not fair, but there's no alternative. The money seniors put in to social security is gone and the current generation can't sustain the older generation at the current benefit level.

So fixing medicare is much tougher and must be done hand in hand with healthcare reform.

Bottom line: Huckabee, Christie, Bush, everybody had some good ideas. Get together with Democrats and come up with something.

We need to elect somebody who can do that because neither party will win absolute power in 2016.

Make it a opt in or opt out to start with.

I agree.

Both SS and Medicare would have been gone long ago if people could only take out exactly what they have put into both of those programs.

Right now its a giant Ponzi scheme where those taking run out of their own money and take money from those coming behind them.

SS was okay until LBJ put it in the general fund and they have been robbing it blind ever since. Of course they don't rob their SS. Just ours.

Oh and of course they will raise the retirement age. No way around it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

those who make less get a higher percentage of their SS contributions in monthly payments and those at the top of SS payers get a lower percentage of their SS contributions in monthly payments.

this is how it has always worked....

so raising the cap DOES HELP shore up the program.

Also, for construction workers or hard labor workers, they can withdraw money from their 401k's / IRA's etc, earlier than the rest of us, without penalty for early withdraw....if due to physical job stress...

This can get them by until SS is avail or...

A similar program can be developed for SS where heavy lifting job workers can retire earlier...

Well then you're creating different categories for different people.

To put it another way, I don't do much in the way of heavy lifting. I'm a truck driver. So the question I have is, do you want to be the person in the car in front of me when I'm 68 years old piloting a 75,000 lbs vehicle when highway traffic comes to a sudden stop?

When I drove buses, one of the other drivers was (when I left) 83. He regularly threaded a 40' MCI or VanHool coach through Boston and NYC...many of our regular groups asked for him by name. His only age-related restriction (aside from wearing glasses) was needing to renew his medical card every six months.

Well some people can and some people can't. But when the safety of the public is at risk, I think this guy was selfish for working that long.

And as I asked earlier, do you want to be the car in front of that bus and super quick reflexes are needed when highway traffic comes to a sudden halt? I know I sure as hell don't want to.

A couple of years ago I was involved in a 14 car pileup on the turnpike. I stopped in time but the truck behind me didn't. He smashed several vehicles before he finally hit my trailer. While we were waiting for emergency crews to arrive, we were all standing outside. A woman approached me, pointed to my truck and asked if I was the driver?

She said her prayer was answered and thanked me for being so alert. She said after she slammed on her brakes, she immediately looked into her rear view mirror and seen my semi coming at her full blast and that's when she started praying. In her words, she described it as a miracle from God that I brought that vehicle to a stop only feet from her bumper.

I've been in several situations where my experience and age played a huge part in not being involved in a deadly accident. I won't have those same reflexes in the coming years yet alone to 70 years old. And if you lost a family member because an old driver couldn't stop in time, you might think twice about having old tractor-trailer drivers on the road.

 

[NightFox]

Do we touch Medicare and Social Security or not?
.

This is not really the question, the question is do we do something about it now or do we wait until we have no choice. The numbers do not lie, under the current system there will no money available in the federal budget for anything else except entitlements and debt service (which of course will be completely unworkable) in 15-20 years if we continue on the current course. Given that state of affairs the question becomes one of do we want to be responsible and fix it now or do we want to wait until the crisis is upon us and take all the nasty consequences that come with putting it off.

From what I can see there are some first steps that are politically palatable that can be possibly taken in the immediate future:
1.) Raise the age of eligibility for SS and Medicare
2.) Organize a body to work on standardization of medical treatments (our treatments for diseases varies wildly from one part of the country to another as do outcomes and costs)
3.) Means test Social Security and Medicare benefits
4.) All new federal employees and elected officials move from defined benefits pension plans to defined contributions (just like what most of us have)
5.) Per Article I section 8 ("commerce clause") of the Constitution eliminate state barriers to competition in the Health Care and Health Insurance markets
6.) Provide additional tax credit based incentives for low income workers to contribute to private retirement savings plans (401K, IRA, etc..,)
7.) Expand health savings accounts

There's a lot more than the above that needs to be done to fix the long term viability of these programs but if we as a nation want to keep them we need to get started NOW.

 

[sealybobo]

Do we touch Medicare and Social Security or not?

With Medicare, it's all about the government giving money to drug companies and rich doctors. We should gradually raise the retirement age, yes. But as far as cutting what Medicare is willing to pay, that would hurt seniors because the greedy doctors and drug companies would stop accepting Medicare. So the only viable thing there is health reform to cut the costs of healthcare paid by all so that what Medicare pays can also go down. Obamacare was supposed to work on that, but because of the toxic Washington environment they rushed out a Democrat only plan rather than working together with Republicans on the healthcare cost issue.

On Social Security, raise the retirement age, and tax benefits to more well off seniors. It's not fair, but there's no alternative. The money seniors put in to social security is gone and the current generation can't sustain the older generation at the current benefit level.

So fixing medicare is much tougher and must be done hand in hand with healthcare reform.

Bottom line: Huckabee, Christie, Bush, everybody had some good ideas. Get together with Democrats and come up with something.

We need to elect somebody who can do that because neither party will win absolute power in 2016.

No you do not raise the retirement age! Nobody wants to work till 70.

Wanting is irrelevant. The current system is not sustainable. Changes have to be made. And that means there will be pain and unpleasantness.

But no pain in the Gold Plated GOVT worker "seperate" pension plan? they get "$10K"/mo for life starting earlier (we get to pay it and shut the hell up with our $1K/mo? I get upset.

I never mentioned federal workers. Who BTW should be taken off the federal system and forced to endure the SS system just like the resat of us.
If it's good enough for the public, it's good enough for those who work for the public.

Everyone but you likes ss. You must be rich.

 

[rightwinger]

Do we touch Medicare and Social Security or not?

With Medicare, it's all about the government giving money to drug companies and rich doctors. We should gradually raise the retirement age, yes. But as far as cutting what Medicare is willing to pay, that would hurt seniors because the greedy doctors and drug companies would stop accepting Medicare. So the only viable thing there is health reform to cut the costs of healthcare paid by all so that what Medicare pays can also go down. Obamacare was supposed to work on that, but because of the toxic Washington environment they rushed out a Democrat only plan rather than working together with Republicans on the healthcare cost issue.

On Social Security, raise the retirement age, and tax benefits to more well off seniors. It's not fair, but there's no alternative. The money seniors put in to social security is gone and the current generation can't sustain the older generation at the current benefit level.

So fixing medicare is much tougher and must be done hand in hand with healthcare reform.

Bottom line: Huckabee, Christie, Bush, everybody had some good ideas. Get together with Democrats and come up with something.

We need to elect somebody who can do that because neither party will win absolute power in 2016.

Not.

Why?
What is it about SS that is sacrosanct with you people?
And don't use that "we paid into it" argument. Because you didn't "pay into" anything. You were taxed. They just call it social Security. If if were an "account" you'd get back your contribution. All of it. Instead the federal government takes YOUR money and after the skim, gives it to someone else who is currently retired. And a person that the bean counters over on K Street hope to see them take a dirt nap. Finally the fucking bureaucrats get to tell us how much of OUR money they think we deserve..
I cannot understand how anyone could actually support this system....

What is it about SS that is sacrosanct with you people?

It is sacrosanct because the government has incurred an obligation to provide you a benefit after you have retired

 

[rightwinger]

Do we touch Medicare and Social Security or not?

With Medicare, it's all about the government giving money to drug companies and rich doctors. We should gradually raise the retirement age, yes. But as far as cutting what Medicare is willing to pay, that would hurt seniors because the greedy doctors and drug companies would stop accepting Medicare. So the only viable thing there is health reform to cut the costs of healthcare paid by all so that what Medicare pays can also go down. Obamacare was supposed to work on that, but because of the toxic Washington environment they rushed out a Democrat only plan rather than working together with Republicans on the healthcare cost issue.

On Social Security, raise the retirement age, and tax benefits to more well off seniors. It's not fair, but there's no alternative. The money seniors put in to social security is gone and the current generation can't sustain the older generation at the current benefit level.

So fixing medicare is much tougher and must be done hand in hand with healthcare reform.

Bottom line: Huckabee, Christie, Bush, everybody had some good ideas. Get together with Democrats and come up with something.

We need to elect somebody who can do that because neither party will win absolute power in 2016.

No you do not raise the retirement age! Nobody wants to work till 70.

Wanting is irrelevant. The current system is not sustainable. Changes have to be made. And that means there will be pain and unpleasantness.

But no pain in the Gold Plated GOVT worker "seperate" pension plan? they get "$10K"/mo for life starting earlier (we get to pay it and shut the hell up with our $1K/mo? I get upset.

I never mentioned federal workers. Who BTW should be taken off the federal system and forced to endure the SS system just like the resat of us.
If it's good enough for the public, it's good enough for those who work for the public.

Why do some morons still think federal workers don't pay Social Security?

They have been paying Social Security since Reagan. You would think you would have caught on by now

 

[Freewill]

Do we touch Medicare and Social Security or not?

With Medicare, it's all about the government giving money to drug companies and rich doctors. We should gradually raise the retirement age, yes. But as far as cutting what Medicare is willing to pay, that would hurt seniors because the greedy doctors and drug companies would stop accepting Medicare. So the only viable thing there is health reform to cut the costs of healthcare paid by all so that what Medicare pays can also go down. Obamacare was supposed to work on that, but because of the toxic Washington environment they rushed out a Democrat only plan rather than working together with Republicans on the healthcare cost issue.

On Social Security, raise the retirement age, and tax benefits to more well off seniors. It's not fair, but there's no alternative. The money seniors put in to social security is gone and the current generation can't sustain the older generation at the current benefit level.

So fixing medicare is much tougher and must be done hand in hand with healthcare reform.

Bottom line: Huckabee, Christie, Bush, everybody had some good ideas. Get together with Democrats and come up with something.

We need to elect somebody who can do that because neither party will win absolute power in 2016.

Doing as you say would make SS the ponzi scheme it always was. Why not raise it to the age that someone dies. Then all the money going into SS can be spent on illegals coming across the border?

That's what it was, originally. The average life expectancy in the US did not hit 65 until 1950!

So you agree that it was always a system that it was expected that people never made a claim. WTF kind of system is that? Besides, no one can live a proper life on SS alone.