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Where did I say that?
First, the Davidians killed themselves.
Secondly, they were in that shootout (where, once again, they killed themselves) with federal agents executing legal arrest warrants..
No, actually...the casualties in the attack were mostly (maybe all) blue-on-blue: federal agents shot each other. Look in the videos of the attack: there was no return fire!
Do you ever use that thing on your shoulders for anything but a hat rack?
Guy, is that ting on your shoulders so fucking diseased that you need to turn child molesting cultists into heroes?
I saw that film, and frankly what I saw was that crazy cultists with a lot of guns shot the shit out of federal agents. Now, I'm not sure how deluded you are that you saw something else...
Lets see now, there was Weavers wife for starters, and his son also,[
Can you actually name someone the government has killed who wasn't either the right guy or they had damned good reason to think he was the right guy?
I think your problem is your paranoia assumes that politicians are some kind of sociopath who would just kill someone for shits and grins.
Nazi scumwads who shot at Federal Agents... Next.
[
You can try to dismiss me as some partisan Republican if you like, but it won't work. I'm not a Republican, and have never had anything nice to say about George W. Bush or his warmongering.
What's scary is that there are people like you who are willing to defend power grabs and total secrecy by the President, and who place so little value on human life.
I dismiss you as a Libertarian Loon.
The GOP used to be fine until it started catering to the Libertarian Loons, Religious Crazies and corporate bloodsuckers... It used to be a pretty sensible party I could vote for and be reasonably secure that the people we were sending to Washington would be adults.
the only human life I place value on is my own. The rest of you are pretty much on your own.
When you demonstrate why I should be worried about President Obama or Hypothetical Future Evil Guy, then we can talk.
I don't much worry that an American who has gone to a terrorist country might find himself on the business end of a Hellfire, and I'm not sure why you do.
If fired into gravel, ANY round (even a little .22 short) will raise a puff of dust. When the attackers were pouring gunfire into the buildings, THERE WAS NO RETURN FIRE. The feds engaged in spray-and-pray, shooting (often blindly) with no targets. Unless you are going to claim that every shot fired at them hit something other than the ground, you are clueless, as usual.
[
No, an unarmed woman and a CHILD. (It's debatable if Sam Weaver ever fired a weapon. If he did so, it was quite possibly because he was fired upon first; the fact that Vicki never fired a shot and was murdered in cold blood while holding an infant is NOT debatable!) You REALLY need to stop lying.
Accounts differ at this point as to who first opened fire[36] but agree that DUSM Roderick shot and killed Weaver's dog and that Samuel Weaver returned fire at Roderick. After the Federal agents began firing, 14 year old Samuel Weaver was shot in the back while retreating,[37][38] and DUSM Degan was shot and killed by Harris.[39]
[ You should be locked up in the nearest nut farm.
[
You can try to dismiss me as some partisan Republican if you like, but it won't work. I'm not a Republican, and have never had anything nice to say about George W. Bush or his warmongering.
What's scary is that there are people like you who are willing to defend power grabs and total secrecy by the President, and who place so little value on human life.
I dismiss you as a Libertarian Loon.
The GOP used to be fine until it started catering to the Libertarian Loons, Religious Crazies and corporate bloodsuckers... It used to be a pretty sensible party I could vote for and be reasonably secure that the people we were sending to Washington would be adults.
the only human life I place value on is my own. The rest of you are pretty much on your own.
When you demonstrate why I should be worried about President Obama or Hypothetical Future Evil Guy, then we can talk.
I don't much worry that an American who has gone to a terrorist country might find himself on the business end of a Hellfire, and I'm not sure why you do.
You speak about the shoot out and then the aftermath being reviewed of the failed approach in which the feds took trying to resolve the crisis in which should have been peacefully and safely solved for all involved, and in a much better way prior to the botched shoot out. The waiting game due to the hostages was the only game that should have been played until the surrender came, but the liberal run government and the media with it's hatred for religious people for whom some (yes) may turn fanatical at times, drove the pressure deep for the feds to get these guy's, and you know it's don't let them intimidate the feds no matter what right, because they must end all thoughts of any challenging of the federal government by example of in any way, and so Waco ended the way that it did as a result of that attitude kept by the government to this very day. Ruby Ridge also ended the way that it did because of the same attitude raising it's head once again in that situation also.If fired into gravel, ANY round (even a little .22 short) will raise a puff of dust. When the attackers were pouring gunfire into the buildings, THERE WAS NO RETURN FIRE. The feds engaged in spray-and-pray, shooting (often blindly) with no targets. Unless you are going to claim that every shot fired at them hit something other than the ground, you are clueless, as usual.
Guy, you are delusional.
I mean, honestly, there really isn't anything more to say here.
For the record, though.
The Victoria Advocate - Google News Archive Search
Agent Denies ATF Fired First at Waco, Surrender Offer Called Ruse
National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund: Director's Corner: Witness to History: The ATF Raid at Waco Event Recap
Again, this is what happens when you have religious whackjobs...
Yes it's over, but it has led to some deeper discussions, and that is A-ok in my book. These deeper discussions that are spawned over these subjects, may just lead back to where things begin or began to go wrong, and may even help in them not going wrong again. Call it preventive if you will, as this drone stuff is something that this nation should use as a gauge or compass in finding out just where we are at now or where it is that we are heading next.Ok everybody you do know the filibuster is over right? Just asking because I think some of you need to step back and take a breath your really starting to sound like your going off the rails here.
Never, and this is what Mr. Paul is trying to make sure doesn't gain the light of day on, so do you have a problem with a person taking issue with what has been found in the words of those who put him on the path that he had gotten on when doing what he did?Sen. Rand Paul filibustered over the hypothetical drone targeting of American
civilians on US soil
WTF????? A fucking joking village idiot. LMFOAO When did we kill an American with a drone attack on American soil? LMFOAO
Sen. Rand Paul filibustered over the hypothetical drone targeting of American
civilians on US soil
WTF????? A fucking joking village idiot. LMFOAO When did we kill an American with a drone attack on American soil? LMFOAO
Far from being "paranoid", this theory has already been asserted on US soil during the Bush presidency. It has been applied to US citizens by the Obama administration. It does not require "paranoia" to raise concerns about the inevitable logical outcome of these theories. Instead, it takes blind authoritarian faith in political leaders to believe that such a suggestion is so offensive and outlandish that merely to raise it is crazy. Once you embrace the US government's War on Terror framework, then there is no cogent legal argument for limiting the assassination power to foreign soil. If the Globe is a Battlefield, then that, by definition, obviously includes the US.
Second, presidents change, and so do circumstances. The belief that Barack Obama - despite his record - is too kind, too good, too magnanimous, too responsible to target US citizens for assassination on US soil is entirely irrelevant. At some point, there will be another president, even a Republican one, who will inherit the theories he embraces. Moreover, circumstances can change rapidly, so that - just as happened with 9/11 - what seems unthinkable quickly becomes not only possible but normalized.
The need to object vehemently to radical theories of power has nothing to do with a belief that the current president will exercise it in the worst possible way. The need is due to the fact that acquiescing to these powers in the first instance means that they become institutionalized - legitimized - and thus become impossible to resist once circumstances change (another Terrorist attack, a president you trust less). That's why it is always the tactic of governments that seek to abuse power to select the most marginalized and easily demonized targets in the first instance (Anwar Awlaki): because they know that once the citizenry cheers for that power on the ground that they dislike the target, the power then becomes institutionalized and impossible to resist when it expands outward, as it always does.
[
Well there we have it then. You're only worried about you, and as you're unlikely to be targeted for drone assassination couldn't care less about how it affects anybody else.
[
You speak about the shoot out and then the aftermath being reviewed of the failed approach in which the feds took trying to resolve the crisis in which should have been peacefully and safely solved for all involved, and in a much better way prior to the botched shoot out. The waiting game due to the hostages was the only game that should have been played until the surrender came, but the liberal run government and the media with it's hatred for religious people for whom some (yes) may turn fanatical at times, drove the pressure deep for the feds to get these guy's, and you know it's don't let them intimidate the feds no matter what right, because they must end all thoughts of any challenging of the federal government by example of in any way, and so Waco ended the way that it did as a result of that attitude kept by the government to this very day. Ruby Ridge also ended the way that it did because of the same attitude raising it's head once again in that situation also.
Never, and this is what Mr. Paul is trying to make sure doesn't gain the light of day on, so do you have a problem with a person taking issue with what has been found in the words of those who put him on the path that he had gotten on when doing what he did?Sen. Rand Paul filibustered over the hypothetical drone targeting of American
civilians on US soil
WTF????? A fucking joking village idiot. LMFOAO When did we kill an American with a drone attack on American soil? LMFOAO
[
You speak about the shoot out and then the aftermath being reviewed of the failed approach in which the feds took trying to resolve the crisis in which should have been peacefully and safely solved for all involved, and in a much better way prior to the botched shoot out. The waiting game due to the hostages was the only game that should have been played until the surrender came, but the liberal run government and the media with it's hatred for religious people for whom some (yes) may turn fanatical at times, drove the pressure deep for the feds to get these guy's, and you know it's don't let them intimidate the feds no matter what right, because they must end all thoughts of any challenging of the federal government by example of in any way, and so Waco ended the way that it did as a result of that attitude kept by the government to this very day. Ruby Ridge also ended the way that it did because of the same attitude raising it's head once again in that situation also.
Guy, let's get it straight.
David Koresh was a guy who had sex with CHILDREN so he could father a race of little Messiahs who would bring about the end of the world.
Do you really, really think there was going to be any "reasoning" with this guy?
Same with Ruby Ridge.
Not that you are rational, but you can't apply rational solutions to irrational people.
[
You speak about the shoot out and then the aftermath being reviewed of the failed approach in which the feds took trying to resolve the crisis in which should have been peacefully and safely solved for all involved, and in a much better way prior to the botched shoot out. The waiting game due to the hostages was the only game that should have been played until the surrender came, but the liberal run government and the media with it's hatred for religious people for whom some (yes) may turn fanatical at times, drove the pressure deep for the feds to get these guy's, and you know it's don't let them intimidate the feds no matter what right, because they must end all thoughts of any challenging of the federal government by example of in any way, and so Waco ended the way that it did as a result of that attitude kept by the government to this very day. Ruby Ridge also ended the way that it did because of the same attitude raising it's head once again in that situation also.
Guy, let's get it straight.
David Koresh was a guy who had sex with CHILDREN so he could father a race of little Messiahs who would bring about the end of the world.
Do you really, really think there was going to be any "reasoning" with this guy?
Same with Ruby Ridge.
Not that you are rational, but you can't apply rational solutions to irrational people.
some people that died were innocent of any wrong doing, but what the hell.
It's only collateral damage
Guy, let's get it straight.
David Koresh was a guy who had sex with CHILDREN so he could father a race of little Messiahs who would bring about the end of the world.
Do you really, really think there was going to be any "reasoning" with this guy?
Same with Ruby Ridge.
Not that you are rational, but you can't apply rational solutions to irrational people.
some people that died were innocent of any wrong doing, but what the hell.
It's only collateral damage
Those people had the option of walking out the door and saying, "Hey, man, those Cultist/Nazis are crazy... I'm out of here!"
The volunteered to be hostages.
And that was kind of the problem. The FBI treated these incidents like hostage situations.
some people that died were innocent of any wrong doing, but what the hell.
It's only collateral damage
Those people had the option of walking out the door and saying, "Hey, man, those Cultist/Nazis are crazy... I'm out of here!"
The volunteered to be hostages.
And that was kind of the problem. The FBI treated these incidents like hostage situations.
volunteered to be hostages?
freedom of association
freedom of religion
freedom of speech
what part of that don't you understand?
