Reagan & Conservatives -- Revisonist History 101

[CrusaderFrank]

Pick an industry known for lying and lack of ethics and it's nothing, it's saintly compared to listening to Progressives talking about politics or history

 

[CrusaderFrank]

No, ofcourse not. It was a long time coming awakening by millions of people in those listed counties and millions more in Russia. Without those millions, hell, tens and tens of millions, the USSR would still be here. Reagan was a long time gone when they woke up.

Yeah that's why it worked so well in Hungary in 1956, amiright?

Good point. Efforts to end Russian occupation and the USSR were going on for 25 years before Reagan became President and over a decade more before it was accomplished.

How many Presidents called the USSR an Evil Empire?

 

[naomibee]

Reagan gave them hope on which they capitalized. With weak-ass presidents like Carter or Obama in office, the USSR might still be here.

Reagan set out to change America after the Johnson-Nixon/Ford-Carter string of disasters, he ended up changing the world.

He was the only good president we all ever had. heck we named our son after him back in the 80s.

 

[Oldstyle]

Jesus, Joe...you look at countries that for two generations knew nothing but communism and collective planning and then struggled to implement free market economies and come to the conclusion that they went BACK to communism because IT worked and capitalism didn't. Yes, there were people in Poland that took comfort in being told what to do and wanted the return of the communists because the new freedoms scared the shit out of them. It took awhile for that sentiment to die out.

So tell me, Joe...is the SLD still running Poland these days? Are the communists in control? The TRUTH is that communism is in such ill repute in Poland these days that it is illegal to display the hammer & sickle or even Che Guevara tee shirts. You do so and they'll put you in prison for up to 2 years! Yeah...they are just LOVING communism in Poland!!! (eye-roll)

Again, because the hammer and sickle are seen as symbols of RUSSIA, not communism.

And, yeah, the next group of idiots who ran Poland decided to chuck free speech and democracy and you think this is a good thing? really?

Here's the reality. The fall of the USSR was a failure of Imperialism, not Communism.

Now, quite the contrary, I'm not defending Communism per se. It's kind of hard to have that discussion with people who think the glory of capitalism is that we should let poor children starve because their parents can't find jobs, and anyone who suggests otherwise is a Communist. That's the SICKNESS that has overtaken the GOP, and why I had to walk away from it.

But from a realistic, historical persective, the fall of the USSR was the failure of a nation, not a system. And it certainly had nothing to do with a senile old actor making a speech. Or spending us into 3 trillion in debt buying $600 toilet seats.

And I suppose that Che Guevara is a symbol of Russia also? He's a symbol of international communism, you buffoon...and if you wear a tee shirt with his face on it in Poland you can be arrested for doing so! Yet you think the Polish people embrace communism?

So now the Soviet Union wasn't even communist? Is that your NEW contention? That it's failure (you now seem willing to admit that they did indeed fail...which is progress for you!) wasn't a failure of communism but a failure of "Imperialism"? You get more amusing with each retreat and re-entrenchment, Joe! Yes, the fall of the USSR was the failure of a nation...but WHY did it fail? The answer to that question is quite obviously that communism didn't work as an economic system. Communism went toe to toe with capitalism in a no holds barred contest of wills over a forty year span and over and over again, communism was shown to be the inferior economic system. Reagan was simply the catalyst that sped up an inevitable collapse.

 

[Camp]

Progressive are the biggest liars I've ever met

That is because you bury your head in the sand when it comes to the Reagan administration. His administration holds the record for convicted liars. Not just opinions and talking points,but actual convictions for being liars. Not telling lies about blow jobs or to promote political issue, but lies to promote death, violence and illegal war. Lies that allowed and caused untold numbers of people to die because of his stupidity and dishonesty. Lies that gave birth to the terrorism that brought down buildings and have us fighting a war against terrorism today, over twenty years after The Geezer left office.

 

[Camp]

Alan D. Fiers

 

[Camp]

Rita LaVelle

 

[Camp]

Richard Secord

 

[JoeB131]

Reagan gave them hope on which they capitalized. With weak-ass presidents like Carter or Obama in office, the USSR might still be here.

Reagan set out to change America after the Johnson-Nixon/Ford-Carter string of disasters, he ended up changing the world.

Yeah, he did.

Just not for the better.

I kind of liked it when America had a middle class...

 

[JoeB131]

[

And I suppose that Che Guevara is a symbol of Russia also? He's a symbol of international communism, you buffoon...and if you wear a tee shirt with his face on it in Poland you can be arrested for doing so! Yet you think the Polish people embrace communism?

Besides the fact you haven't posted a link to this claim, the fact remains, Poland voted teh Communists back into power. So that tells me that what the Poles were rejecting was Russian Domination... not the other thing.

[
So now the Soviet Union wasn't even communist? Is that your NEW contention? That it's failure (you now seem willing to admit that they did indeed fail...which is progress for you!) wasn't a failure of communism but a failure of "Imperialism"? You get more amusing with each retreat and re-entrenchment, Joe! Yes, the fall of the USSR was the failure of a nation...but WHY did it fail? The answer to that question is quite obviously that communism didn't work as an economic system. Communism went toe to toe with capitalism in a no holds barred contest of wills over a forty year span and over and over again, communism was shown to be the inferior economic system. Reagan was simply the catalyst that sped up an inevitable collapse.

It failed for the same reason all EMPIRES fail.

beause most people just don't like being ruled by foreigners.

Had nothing to do with "Captialism" or "Communism", which all sound great in theory but didn't really happen in the real world.

Shit, the reason why the whole west didn't collapse into Communism is because the capitalists made a bunch of concessions to labor....

But again- failure of a nation that didn't have anything to do with a senile old actor and his harpy of a wife reading Astrological Tables....

 

[JoeB131]

Riggggggggggggggggggggggght.

Gorby woke up on day and said, "I know!! I'll dismantle the USSR! And I'll take down the Berlin Wall too!!"

No, ofcourse not. It was a long time coming awakening by millions of people in those listed counties and millions more in Russia. Without those millions, hell, tens and tens of millions, the USSR would still be here. Reagan was a long time gone when they woke up.

Yeah that's why it worked so well in Hungary in 1956, amiright?

Yeah, that would be the same Hungary that threw in with the Axis a decade before wondering why the USSR wasn't going to put up with any of their shit.

 

[Dot Com]

the ussr had been running on fumes for years CrusaderFrank.

 

[Oldstyle]

[

And I suppose that Che Guevara is a symbol of Russia also? He's a symbol of international communism, you buffoon...and if you wear a tee shirt with his face on it in Poland you can be arrested for doing so! Yet you think the Polish people embrace communism?

Besides the fact you haven't posted a link to this claim, the fact remains, Poland voted teh Communists back into power. So that tells me that what the Poles were rejecting was Russian Domination... not the other thing.

[
So now the Soviet Union wasn't even communist? Is that your NEW contention? That it's failure (you now seem willing to admit that they did indeed fail...which is progress for you!) wasn't a failure of communism but a failure of "Imperialism"? You get more amusing with each retreat and re-entrenchment, Joe! Yes, the fall of the USSR was the failure of a nation...but WHY did it fail? The answer to that question is quite obviously that communism didn't work as an economic system. Communism went toe to toe with capitalism in a no holds barred contest of wills over a forty year span and over and over again, communism was shown to be the inferior economic system. Reagan was simply the catalyst that sped up an inevitable collapse.

It failed for the same reason all EMPIRES fail.

beause most people just don't like being ruled by foreigners.

Had nothing to do with "Captialism" or "Communism", which all sound great in theory but didn't really happen in the real world.

Shit, the reason why the whole west didn't collapse into Communism is because the capitalists made a bunch of concessions to labor....

But again- failure of a nation that didn't have anything to do with a senile old actor and his harpy of a wife reading Astrological Tables....

You want links? Fine... Poland 'to ban' Che Guevara image - Telegraph

The fact is...Poland hates communism because under that system the Russians committed countless atrocities against the Polish people. They executed 22,000 Poles in one instance...killing army officers...police officers...priests...business owners...basically anyone of standing in the country that could offer resistance to the communist take-over in the Katyn Forest Massacre.

The USSR failed because it brutally repressed people both in the Soviet Union and in it's satellite nations like Poland. When you compare the Soviets to other empires reflect on the fact that the Soviets flamed out in spectacular fashion in a mere fifty years. The Roman Empire lasted about 500 years. The British Empire had a run of about 350 years. The United States has lasted over 220 years. Communist Cuba on the other hand has only been around about 50 years and is now abandoning communism because their economy is in such bad shape. Communist China brought in "trade zones" to spur economic growth because it's economy was floundering so badly.

 

[JoeB131]

[

You want links? Fine... Poland 'to ban' Che Guevara image - Telegraph

From your post...

Poland's equality minister, Elzbieta Radziszewska, wants to expand a Polish law prohibiting the production of fascist and totalitarian propaganda so that it includes clothing and anything else that could carry an image related to an authoritarian system.

So they didn't ban it, they just WANT TO. Because, clearly, nothing says capitalism like banning an image on a t-shirt worn by disaffected college kids.

Did the kid in the Che T-shirt bang the cheerleader you had your eye on after reading her some passages from The Motorcycle Diaries? Cause ya got to let it go, man.

(Pssst. At this point, I'm just mocking you, Corky!)

The fact is...Poland hates communism because under that system the Russians committed countless atrocities against the Polish people. They executed 22,000 Poles in one instance...killing army officers...police officers...priests...business owners...basically anyone of standing in the country that could offer resistance to the communist take-over in the Katyn Forest Massacre.

Yeah, that's what you do when you conquer a country. But again, you miss the point. They hate RUSSIANS, not COMMUNISTS. And Russians were doing nasty things to Poles long before the bad old Commies came along.

The USSR failed because it brutally repressed people both in the Soviet Union and in it's satellite nations like Poland. When you compare the Soviets to other empires reflect on the fact that the Soviets flamed out in spectacular fashion in a mere fifty years. The Roman Empire lasted about 500 years. The British Empire had a run of about 350 years. The United States has lasted over 220 years. Communist Cuba on the other hand has only been around about 50 years and is now abandoning communism because their economy is in such bad shape. Communist China brought in "trade zones" to spur economic growth because it's economy was floundering so badly.

Actually, lots of empires flame out pretty quickly. Alexander's Empire only lasted as long as he did. Same with Napoleon's.

Also, the US didn't really practice imperialism that much (Unless you count the genocide of the Native Americans, but you wingnuts like to pretend that didn't happen.) Our one attempt at it, subjectgating the Philippines was an absolute fucking disaster. We killed half a million Filipinos for really nothing.

But keep pretending this is about "systems" that were never really put into practice and not so much about nations and how they relate to each other. Because really, somewhere, you hope that cheerleader sees the error of her ways.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Progressive are the biggest liars I've ever met

That is because you bury your head in the sand when it comes to the Reagan administration. His administration holds the record for convicted liars. Not just opinions and talking points,but actual convictions for being liars. Not telling lies about blow jobs or to promote political issue, but lies to promote death, violence and illegal war. Lies that allowed and caused untold numbers of people to die because of his stupidity and dishonesty. Lies that gave birth to the terrorism that brought down buildings and have us fighting a war against terrorism today, over twenty years after The Geezer left office.

No, it's because you lie about EVERYTHING from FDR's greatness, McCarthyism, the Civil Right record of Democrats, the success of Progressive economics and the accomplishments of Ronald Reagan.

Everything a lie

FDR had an economy worse that the 7 Biblical Lean Years, you call that great

McCarthy correctly warned us that more people in the FDR White House reported to Stalin than to FDR, and you say he used his House Unamerican Activities Committee to blacklist Hollywood writers

The Democrats supported slavery, eugenics, the KKK and LBJ kept Ike's Civil Rights Bill bottled up in the Senate from 1957-1964, then passed the identical bill as his own

Ronald Reagan took a bullet from the Establishment and then went on to free Eastern Europe and defeat Soviet Communism

 

[JoeB131]

[

No, it's because you lie about EVERYTHING from FDR's greatness, McCarthyism, the Civil Right record of Democrats, the success of Progressive economics and the accomplishments of Ronald Reagan.

Everything a lie

FDR had an economy worse that the 7 Biblical Lean Years, you call that great

It was still better than the economy that Hoover left him. IN 1933, when FDR took office, the unemployment rate was at 25%. It was down to 16% in 1936. It was down to 14% in 1940. Then WWII broke out and it dropped to 4% and even after the war, mostly stayed low.

United States Unemployment Rate 1920?2012 | Infoplease.com

That was until your boy Reagan fucked it up and destroyed the middle class.

McCarthy correctly warned us that more people in the FDR White House reported to Stalin than to FDR, and you say he used his House Unamerican Activities Committee to blacklist Hollywood writers

McCarthy was a cheap demagogue who was used and thrown away by the GOP when he got too full of himself. He was kind of the Sarah Palin of his day.. except not as stupid.

The Democrats supported slavery, eugenics, the KKK and LBJ kept Ike's Civil Rights Bill bottled up in the Senate from 1957-1964, then passed the identical bill as his own

Southern Democrats did that. Today those same people are Red State Republicans.

Ronald Reagan took a bullet from the Establishment and then went on to free Eastern Europe and defeat Soviet Communism

Yup. In fact he so defeated them that they were totally still in power and George Bush had to run on a platform of "Dukakis can't keep you safe but I can!"

 

[Camp]

John Poindexter

 

[CrusaderFrank]

[

No, it's because you lie about EVERYTHING from FDR's greatness, McCarthyism, the Civil Right record of Democrats, the success of Progressive economics and the accomplishments of Ronald Reagan.

Everything a lie

FDR had an economy worse that the 7 Biblical Lean Years, you call that great

It was still better than the economy that Hoover left him. IN 1933, when FDR took office, the unemployment rate was at 25%. It was down to 16% in 1936. It was down to 14% in 1940. Then WWII broke out and it dropped to 4% and even after the war, mostly stayed low.

United States Unemployment Rate 1920?2012 | Infoplease.com

That was until your boy Reagan fucked it up and destroyed the middle class.

McCarthy correctly warned us that more people in the FDR White House reported to Stalin than to FDR, and you say he used his House Unamerican Activities Committee to blacklist Hollywood writers

McCarthy was a cheap demagogue who was used and thrown away by the GOP when he got too full of himself. He was kind of the Sarah Palin of his day.. except not as stupid.

The Democrats supported slavery, eugenics, the KKK and LBJ kept Ike's Civil Rights Bill bottled up in the Senate from 1957-1964, then passed the identical bill as his own

Southern Democrats did that. Today those same people are Red State Republicans.

Ronald Reagan took a bullet from the Establishment and then went on to free Eastern Europe and defeat Soviet Communism

Yup. In fact he so defeated them that they were totally still in power and George Bush had to run on a platform of "Dukakis can't keep you safe but I can!"

^ See what I mean?

 

[JoeB131]

yeah, guy, I know you need your own version of history where Hoover was a great president and McCarthy really did have Commies hiding under his bed...

reality bites!

 

[Camp]

Alan D. Fiers
Rita LaVelle
Richard Secord
John Poindexter

Four people who helped make the Reagan administration the most corrupt andministration in American history.