Red state Secession would see welfare dependent states collapse

[Meathead]

Why are red states typically having higher murder rates, lower education and higher obesity?

You're talking about blue shitholes in red states.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Hmmm... could it be that we are just inherently wicked and stupid and violent? Or are those murder rates -- not to mention the education and obesity rates -- perhaps concentrated among ... er ... people living living in the Red states who are not, in the inverted American use of that adjective, 'Red'?

I assume you are aware that, although they constitute about 3% of the American population, young Black males commit a majority -- ie more than 50% -- of the unlawful killings in America? Now maybe they listen to Fox News and vote Republican, but somehow I doubt it.

It would be nice if these fellows all moved to Blue states, but a lot of them live in the big cities of Red States ... cities with Democratic mayors and, we can assume, a restrained, if not defunded, police force.

Here's a more extended refutation of your claim:
[ Study debunks ‘red state murder’ claim from Hillary Clinton, Democrats ]

But maybe we can work out a deal here! We'll identify all our Red-State 'Blue' voters -- especially the ones who kill each other a lot -- and you and we will work together to rescue them from life in a horrible, low-education, fatty, violent Red State, by helping them emigrate to one of your states!!! How about it???

Skin colour has no relation to levels of violence or criminality. Poverty is a more relevant factor. Inequality is another. I watched a film called the Godfather last night. There were no black folks in it. They were all white guys.

 

[Catsnmeters]

Hmmm... could it be that we are just inherently wicked and stupid and violent? Or are those murder rates -- not to mention the education and obesity rates -- perhaps concentrated among ... er ... people living living in the Red states who are not, in the inverted American use of that adjective, 'Red'?

I assume you are aware that, although they constitute about 3% of the American population, young Black males commit a majority -- ie more than 50% -- of the unlawful killings in America? Now maybe they listen to Fox News and vote Republican, but somehow I doubt it.

It would be nice if these fellows all moved to Blue states, but a lot of them live in the big cities of Red States ... cities with Democratic mayors and, we can assume, a restrained, if not defunded, police force.

Here's a more extended refutation of your claim:
[ Study debunks ‘red state murder’ claim from Hillary Clinton, Democrats ]

But maybe we can work out a deal here! We'll identify all our Red-State 'Blue' voters -- especially the ones who kill each other a lot -- and you and we will work together to rescue them from life in a horrible, low-education, fatty, violent Red State, by helping them emigrate to one of your states!!! How about it???

Yeah. Nothing debunked there. Is it the articles contention that blue states don't have blue cities?

Also not sure what you injected race into the Convo.

 

[Catsnmeters]

You're talking about blue shitholes in red states.

Blue states don't have blue cities?

For example Washington. They score pretty good overall yet Seattle, a supposed shithole that makes up a sizable portion of the states population, doesn't seem to be effecting the numbers as much as you claim.

 

[Doug1943]

Skin colour has no relation to levels of violence or criminality. Poverty is a more relevant factor. Inequality is another. I watched a film called the Godfather last night. There were no black folks in it. They were all white guys.

'Skin colour' literally, yes. It's unlikely that white people with a good tan are more likely to be violent than ones without ... maybe even less violent, since they can afford tanning beads or trips to the beach.
But race/ethnicity, no -- it has very large correlation. And yes, there are other correlations, poverty being one, educational attainment being another.

But ... correlation isn't causation. Let's agree -- or 'stipulate', as the lawyers say -- on the very broad generalization that violent crime and low educational achievement go together. This doesn't mean that low educational achievement causes violent crime, any more than the other way around. There may be some third factor causing both. Or it may be even more complicated than that.

We shouldn't draw conclusions about social reality from Hollywood films. (Otherwise, seeing The Godfather, we'd be very prejudiced against Sicilians.)

Please have a look at some of the links I posted and will post. Most academics, including those who specialize in crime, are liberals, and have pre-set limits on what conclusions they will be allowed to reach about crme.

But we can still learn a lot from discussions/debates between them, and non-liberal scholars, on this issue.

Anyway, let me pose a thought experiment. Some legislators in California are proposing to give every Black there $5 000 000 in reparations. Although I'm strongly in support of their doing this, as all sensible rightwingers should be, I doubt it will happen.

But suppose it did. Would you expect a dramatic, permanent drop in the Black violent crime rate as a result?

$5 000 000 is a lot of money. More realistic is another proposal, for 'just' $100 000 each. Do you think this would cause a dramatic, permanent drop?

Do you believe the recipients would use it to go to college, or to get a good manual skill, or to put a down-payment on a home? (I am sure some would. But what about that part of the recipients who commit all those murders, the Black underclass -- its young male component?)

 

[hadit]

Skin colour has no relation to levels of violence or criminality. Poverty is a more relevant factor. Inequality is another. I watched a film called the Godfather last night. There were no black folks in it. They were all white guys.

The first two sentences you wrote don't relate to the last two.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

It's one of the great false beliefs of many on the Right that all Democrats are the same. There are plenty of sane Democrats ... not happy with 'woke' madness, but not willing to take the nasty abuse that comes with being seen to disagree with it.

They want Social Security and Medicare and even an extension of Medicare ... but don't want to defund the police, release criminals into the population, or have their children taught that Thomas Jefferson was practically a KKK member.

These are the people who voted to recall the son-of-Weathermen DA in San Franciso not long ago, and also yanked the 'woke' School Board members out of their posts after the latter decided to paint over a mural depicting American history which the hate-America Left thought was politically-incorrect. (A mural that had been painted by a Communist in the 1930s!)

I'm sure there are leftists living in Red states who are not happy there. We should try to arrange population exchanges, like the Serbs and Croats did (when they could pause temporarily from killing each other) in the former Yugoslavia during the 1990s. They even did house swaps.

Here's something for an entrepreneurally-minded person: a website featuring house-exchanges.

Now ... will these sane Democrats fleeing the Wokers Paradises vote in such a way as to reproduce the insanity in their new states? There's a problem.

I recall bumper stickers in Washington State, decades ago, with the slogan "Don't Californicate Washington!" Didn't work.

I've spoken with a lot of California transplants here in Texas and everyone has said dont worry we left California and came to Texas to escape high taxes and idiotic California laws.

 

[Doug1943]

I've spoken with a lot of California transplants here in Texas and everyone has said dont worry we left California and came to Texas to escape high taxes and idiotic California laws.

That's good to hear, and what I would expect. I suppose a few businesses, that is, their owners, might flee the California tax regime, and bring their pretense of 'wokeness' with them, but surely ordinary people would not vote to replicate that from which they fled.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

American Divorce? More like Americaâs Brexit | Voices

Let’s talk about American Brexit

www.independent.co.uk

Marje has been sharing her vision on Hannity. She envisions a red state secession , Marjistan, that would break away from America.
The stats are quite illuminating.
# Counties that voted for President Joe Biden generate 70 percent of gross domestic product.
# Fourteen of the poorest 15 states voted Republican in 2020.

# All 12 richest states chose Biden.

# Only four red states have median household incomes in the top half of the 50 states.
# The nine red states that seceded in 1861 get, on average, 42 percent of their budgets from Washington, according to SmartAsset. Mostly that buys health care –

There are more stats in the article but the picture seems to be quite clear. These dependent states rail against govt spending whilst being the biggest recipients.

Its hilarious in a way but rather sad. I wonder if the exercise is worth it to just excorcise the evil woke.

Yea because staying connected to the debt star is gonna work out swimmingly...
Shit storms coming either way
Down with the union !

 

[tyroneweaver]

With stats like that, one would wonder why lefties would oppose such a divorce.

b/c they would have to eat and red states produce all the food

 

[22lcidw]

Skin colour has no relation to levels of violence or criminality. Poverty is a more relevant factor. Inequality is another. I watched a film called the Godfather last night. There were no black folks in it. They were all white guys.

No social programs in those eras. Trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars spent on poverty and inequality over several decades and the poverty and undereducation which is worse than before all of the utopia dreams were started is worse. It is value for the dollar that is in question. Anyway, in another war we have spent over 120 billion dollars in Ukraine in less than a year. And don't worry. we are lowering standards and soon enough we will be Idiocracy. That movie will be banned at some point. However, they made sure it was white guys who were 95% of the idiots that were shown.

 

[Doug1943]

Yea because staying connected to the debt star is gonna work out swimmingly...
Shit storms coming either way
Down with the union !

There seem to be multiple converging shit storms.

The decade before 2001 looked like we had finally solved all of humanity's problems -- the 'end of history' as Mr Fukayama persuasively wrote. America the sole superpower, capitalism bringing economic growth to the Third World ... it all looked good. When there was a hiccup, as in Saddam's invasion of Kuwait, we could deal with it easily.

Very much like the period before WWI: economic and social progress, great advances in technology (heavier-than-air flight, X-rays, theory of relativity). And then ...

So if there is some horrible conflation of crises -- a military defeat abroad or just a costly long drawn-out war which we can't win (the norm for us now), economic crisis, a new plague, fossil fuel depletion ... wouldn't it be better if we were separate nations?

A joint defense, free trade between us ... more or less the relationship we have with Canada today.

No one's going to send an invasion fleet across thousands of miles of open oceans, so 'joint defense' means aero-space defense.

Each nation could decide if it wanted to keep intervening around the world to bring the warring tribes LBGTQ rights, etc, or paying for the defense of European nations which are as wealthy as we are and which -- one of them in particular -- have shown in the past that they're pretty good at making war.

An amicable separation. We can work out who gets to have the kids national debt, how to deal with the currency problem, etc. This problem has been faced by people around the world a dozen times in the last few decades, and a solution is always found.

We might even find the Canadians would like to follow our example, and their 'conservative' and 'liberal' parts merge with ours.

Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity! A Song of Dregrees. Psalm 122:1

 

[Doug1943]

No social programs in those eras. Trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars spent on poverty and inequality over several decades and the poverty and undereducation which is worse than before all of the utopia dreams were started is worse. It is value for the dollar that is in question. Anyway, in another war we have spent over 120 billion dollars in Ukraine in less than a year. And don't worry. we are lowering standards and soon enough we will be Idiocracy. That movie will be banned at some point. However, they made sure it was white guys who were 95% of the idiots that were To shown.

To sum it all up: you get less of what you tax, and more of what you subsidize.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

'Skin colour' literally, yes. It's unlikely that white people with a good tan are more likely to be violent than ones without ... maybe even less violent, since they can afford tanning beads or trips to the beach.
But race/ethnicity, no -- it has very large correlation. And yes, there are other correlations, poverty being one, educational attainment being another.

But ... correlation isn't causation. Let's agree -- or 'stipulate', as the lawyers say -- on the very broad generalization that violent crime and low educational achievement go together. This doesn't mean that low educational achievement causes violent crime, any more than the other way around. There may be some third factor causing both. Or it may be even more complicated than that.

We shouldn't draw conclusions about social reality from Hollywood films. (Otherwise, seeing The Godfather, we'd be very prejudiced against Sicilians.)

Please have a look at some of the links I posted and will post. Most academics, including those who specialize in crime, are liberals, and have pre-set limits on what conclusions they will be allowed to reach about crme.

But we can still learn a lot from discussions/debates between them, and non-liberal scholars, on this issue.

Anyway, let me pose a thought experiment. Some legislators in California are proposing to give every Black there $5 000 000 in reparations. Although I'm strongly in support of their doing this, as all sensible rightwingers should be, I doubt it will happen.

But suppose it did. Would you expect a dramatic, permanent drop in the Black violent crime rate as a result?

$5 000 000 is a lot of money. More realistic is another proposal, for 'just' $100 000 each. Do you think this would cause a dramatic, permanent drop?

Do you believe the recipients would use it to go to college, or to get a good manual skill, or to put a down-payment on a home? (I am sure some would. But what about that part of the recipients who commit all those murders, the Black underclass -- its young male component?)

Centuries of slavery followed by a century of oppression is not to be wished away overnight.
America was rigged to keep black people down.
Housing,politial,education and economic factors all played a part.

All of these factors played a part in reducing opportunity for black people. When people feel excluded by a society they feel less inclined tofollow its laws.
.
The GOP would like to return to that period. We see it posted on here every day..

A first step would be to bury the racist attitudes. However it seems to be moving in the opposite direction.

We both know that people will not be given $5m. That is just a distraction.

 

[Doug1943]

Centuries of slavery followed by a century of oppression is not to be wished away overnight.
America was rigged to keep black people down.
Housing,politial,education and economic factors all played a part.

All of these factors played a part in reducing opportunity for black people. When people feel excluded by a society they feel less inclined tofollow its laws.
.
The GOP would like to return to that period. We see it posted on here every day..

A first step would be to bury the racist attitudes. However it seems to be moving in the opposite direction.

We both know that people will not be given $5m. That is just a distraction.

Yes, that's the usual explanation the Left comes up with, if blaming etherial current 'racism' becomes too obviously absurd.

Unprovable, untestable, without any concrete examples of how slavery 150 years ago makes the Black underclass into violent criminals today.

Very convenient. "Overnight" = over 150 years. "The Slaveowners Made Me Do It!"

The terrible reality is that this excuse undermines all efforts to pull the Black underclass into civilized society. It's actually an example of the sort of malign psychological influence it claims to be identifying.

 

[Godboy]

American Divorce? More like Americaâs Brexit | Voices

Let’s talk about American Brexit

www.independent.co.uk

Marje has been sharing her vision on Hannity. She envisions a red state secession , Marjistan, that would break away from America.
The stats are quite illuminating.
# Counties that voted for President Joe Biden generate 70 percent of gross domestic product.
# Fourteen of the poorest 15 states voted Republican in 2020.

# All 12 richest states chose Biden.

# Only four red states have median household incomes in the top half of the 50 states.
# The nine red states that seceded in 1861 get, on average, 42 percent of their budgets from Washington, according to SmartAsset. Mostly that buys health care –

There are more stats in the article but the picture seems to be quite clear. These dependent states rail against govt spending whilst being the biggest recipients.

Its hilarious in a way but rather sad. I wonder if the exercise is worth it to just excorcise the evil woke.

If those states seceded, they would cut off all welfare, thereby saving BILLIONS and pushing the broke dick scrubs into goofy left wing states.

 

[Godboy]

Centuries of slavery followed by a century of oppression is not to be wished away overnight.

Slavery didnt end last night. It ended well over a century ago. Your grasp of history is terrible.

 

[BlueGin]

Blue states and blue state people should be all for this.

Why arent they? I think we all know the answer to that.

 

[themirrorthief]

Slavery didnt end last night. It ended well over a century ago. Your grasp of history is terrible.

every one is a slave you damned fools

 

[Godboy]

every one is a slave you damned fools

Nah, im free. I think i will go home, smoke some weed a play some video games. Then again, maybe i will go to a restaurant. Whatever i decide to do on a whim is what i will do.