What do you understand about FDR? Did FDR want a war with Japan? For answers, check here

[Mushroom]

Hawaii had to be on full alert long before that stuff you blamed Marshall for.

Most of our forces at the time were on alert. However, they were expecting something completely different than what actually happened.

All of the experts in the Pentagon expected the opening attacks to be in the Philippines. The very fact that most of the Japanese Navy "went dark" and seemed to vanish told them an attack was coming.

However, none of the experts expected an attack at Hawaii. They thought that if it was to be attacked, it would be in the form of sabotage. So the forces there were set up to fight sabotage and infiltration, not an air attack.

 

[Mushroom]

So you accept FDR made a hell of a mistake by waiting so long to go to war?

The US was not ready for war in 1939. It was not a lot more prepared at the end of 1941.

In 1939 when war broke out in Europe, the total US armed forces were just over 334,000. And much of 1940 and 1941 was spent expanding the training system so they could increase that. By the end of 1940 that had risen to 458,000. And by the end of 1941 it was at just over 1.8 million. One can not just wave their hand and produce more forces. It takes time and location in order to train as many as were needed.

 

[Robert W]

The US was not ready for war in 1939. It was not a lot more prepared at the end of 1941.

In 1939 when war broke out in Europe, the total US armed forces were just over 334,000. And much of 1940 and 1941 was spent expanding the training system so they could increase that. By the end of 1940 that had risen to 458,000. And by the end of 1941 it was at just over 1.8 million. One can not just wave their hand and produce more forces. It takes time and location in order to train as many as were needed.

Yes that is what I believe. Apparently so did Japan.

 

[Robert W]

The US was not ready for war in 1939. It was not a lot more prepared at the end of 1941.

In 1939 when war broke out in Europe, the total US armed forces were just over 334,000. And much of 1940 and 1941 was spent expanding the training system so they could increase that. By the end of 1940 that had risen to 458,000. And by the end of 1941 it was at just over 1.8 million. One can not just wave their hand and produce more forces. It takes time and location in order to train as many as were needed.

Seldom is the USA really prepared for war. It was not when I was in the Army in 1962-64. I doubt it is ready now.

 

[DudleySmith]

We built 26 aircraft carriers in 4 years then. We can't even meet peacetime recruiting goals now, with double the population we had then.

 

[Robert W]

We built 26 aircraft carriers in 4 years then. We cant' even meet peacetime recruiting goals now, with double the population we had then.

I am aware of that. Good catch.

 

[Robert W]

Sorry, but that is complete and utter coprolite.

Because Japan was unquestionably going to attack the Philippines. There was no way in hell Japan was going to attack the British possessions and the Dutch East Indies while leaving those islands alone. Especially as the US was in the starting phase of a massive military buildup there.

The moment they attacked the Philippines, it would have been war.

True about the Philippines. FDR was against a reluctant congress. In fact the bombing of Pearl handed him permission to wage war.

 

[Robert W]

Most of our forces at the time were on alert. However, they were expecting something completely different than what actually happened.

All of the experts in the Pentagon expected the opening attacks to be in the Philippines. The very fact that most of the Japanese Navy "went dark" and seemed to vanish told them an attack was coming.

However, none of the experts expected an attack at Hawaii. They thought that if it was to be attacked, it would be in the form of sabotage. So the forces there were set up to fight sabotage and infiltration, not an air attack.

Had there been say 20 ships at Pearl Harbor, true. But there was about 130 ships in that tiny port.

 

[Mushroom]

Had there been say 20 ships at Pearl Harbor, true. But there was about 130 ships in that tiny port.

The majority of them support vessels. The target was not them but the capitol ships. And there were less than 60 "warships" there, mostly destroyers.

And the base was hardly "small", it is over 21 square miles. With the many port areas it was actually one of the largest Navy bases the US had.

Without the battleships, the destroyers and cruisers were no threat. Just look at the troubles we had later in places like Guadalcanal without them.

True about the Philippines. FDR was against a reluctant congress. In fact the bombing of Pearl handed him permission to wage war.

The Philippines were US Territory. The invasion there as much as Pearl Harbor (then add in Guam) were more than enough. Not to mention that Congress had no choice, Japan declared war against us. Really all they did was recognize that, then with the declaration of war enabled the country to go to a 100% military stance when it came to our industry.

Something few other than Admiral Yamamoto recognized would be the ultimate doom of Japan. He was almost exactly right when he said he would dominate for about 6 months, after that the outcome looked doubtful. He had lived in the US, so had a damned good idea what our production capability was.

 

[Robert W]

The majority of them support vessels. The target was not them but the capitol ships. And there were less than 60 "warships" there, mostly destroyers.

And the base was hardly "small", it is over 21 square miles. With the many port areas it was actually one of the largest Navy bases the US had.

Without the battleships, the destroyers and cruisers were no threat. Just look at the troubles we had later in places like Guadalcanal without them.



The Philippines were US Territory. The invasion there as much as Pearl Harbor (then add in Guam) were more than enough. Not to mention that Congress had no choice, Japan declared war against us. Really all they did was recognize that, then with the declaration of war enabled the country to go to a 100% military stance when it came to our industry.

Something few other than Admiral Yamamoto recognized would be the ultimate doom of Japan. He was almost exactly right when he said he would dominate for about 6 months, after that the outcome looked doubtful. He had lived in the US, so had a damned good idea what our production capability was.

I can tell you just love to argue. So let's go.
Last time I checked there had been 130 ships apx in that harbor. The Japanese missed the Carriers and why? Sure, then America colonized many places. Anyway this is about FDR who followed Commander Cullum's laid out plans.