Reforming Welfare

[CorvusRexus]

There is no debate necessary: welfare is a system that needs cleaning one way or another. I believe one way it should be reformed is to transfer control of welfare to city or county level governments. It is of my opinion that each individual city/county would be better equipped to deal with welfare fraud than the Federal Government, hundreds of miles away. In order to pay for that, the government could put cities in charge of certain taxes, at least enough to cover the added expenses of funding welfare. In addition, anyone found guilty of welfare fraud would be banned from receiving it- for life.
Will anyone refute my claims?

 

[CorvusRexus]

No one has an opinion?
Or am I seriously just that correct?

 

[CorvusRexus]

No one has an opinion?
Or am I seriously just that correct?

Looks like I am. What a wonderful monologue.

 

[FA_Q2]

There is no debate necessary: welfare is a system that needs cleaning one way or another. I believe one way it should be reformed is to transfer control of welfare to city or county level governments. It is of my opinion that each individual city/county would be better equipped to deal with welfare fraud than the Federal Government, hundreds of miles away. In order to pay for that, the government could put cities in charge of certain taxes, at least enough to cover the added expenses of funding welfare. In addition, anyone found guilty of welfare fraud would be banned from receiving it- for life.
Will anyone refute my claims?

Such a concept would be enormously complex whenever someone moved to another location (having an entirely different set of rules) and be completely insolvent because the poor tend to congregate in poor towns. When everyone there is poor there certainly is not going to be sufficient tax revenues to support welfare payments to the same.

Personally I think that welfare need a complete overhaul. There should be one welfare program or a small handful at worst case rather than over 70 as we currently have. They should also concentrate on getting people off it rather than perpetuate welfare. More work training and programs and less monetary. More education. Whenever possible, welfare should cover the goods directly as WIC does.

 

[Politico]

You reform it by eliminating it.

 

[dr.d]

There is no debate necessary: welfare is a system that needs cleaning one way or another. I believe one way it should be reformed is to transfer control of welfare to city or county level governments. It is of my opinion that each individual city/county would be better equipped to deal with welfare fraud than the Federal Government, hundreds of miles away. In order to pay for that, the government could put cities in charge of certain taxes, at least enough to cover the added expenses of funding welfare. In addition, anyone found guilty of welfare fraud would be banned from receiving it- for life.
Will anyone refute my claims?

Ah Corvus...this is one of those ideas that sounds good...until u think about it. Welfare disbursements, including food stamps and Medicaid services are based on centralized data banks, and transferring them to local venues would not only fragment salient data but would be costly and inefficient, since counties and towns have variable abilities to deal with complex info...especially in rural areas.


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[dr.d]

You reform it by eliminating it.

Ya...I wonder how u would feel if u lost ur job and could not find another...or lost all of ur assets in a disaster ...U never know ...Even powerful and wealthy families like the Romneys had to rely on food stamps when they moved back in from Mexico...


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[peach174]

There is no debate necessary: welfare is a system that needs cleaning one way or another. I believe one way it should be reformed is to transfer control of welfare to city or county level governments. It is of my opinion that each individual city/county would be better equipped to deal with welfare fraud than the Federal Government, hundreds of miles away. In order to pay for that, the government could put cities in charge of certain taxes, at least enough to cover the added expenses of funding welfare. In addition, anyone found guilty of welfare fraud would be banned from receiving it- for life.
Will anyone refute my claims?

Ah Corvus...this is one of those ideas that sounds good...until u think about it. Welfare disbursements, including food stamps and Medicaid services are based on centralized data banks, and transferring them to local venues would not only fragment salient data but would be costly and inefficient, since counties and towns have variable abilities to deal with complex info...especially in rural areas.


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The centralized data banks gets the data from the local areas.
All of them are able to access the central data base.

I think the same, that it should be run by the local areas. There are offices in every City.
Most welfare recipients can't afford to relocate anywhere else.

 

[peach174]

You reform it by eliminating it.

Ya...I wonder how u would feel if u lost ur job and could not find another...or lost all of ur assets in a disaster ...U never know ...Even powerful and wealthy families like the Romney's had to rely on food stamps when they moved back in from Mexico...


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The Family moved back to the U.S. in 1912.
The Food Stamp program did not start till 1939.
His Grandfather sued the Mexican Government from the loss of all their potions in Mexico. He won and was paid back by the government in 1938, regaining all of their wealth.
One year before before the food stamp program began.

 

[manifold]

Publish the list of welfare recipients and what they receive.

The rest will take care of itself.

 

[CorvusRexus]

There is no debate necessary: welfare is a system that needs cleaning one way or another. I believe one way it should be reformed is to transfer control of welfare to city or county level governments. It is of my opinion that each individual city/county would be better equipped to deal with welfare fraud than the Federal Government, hundreds of miles away. In order to pay for that, the government could put cities in charge of certain taxes, at least enough to cover the added expenses of funding welfare. In addition, anyone found guilty of welfare fraud would be banned from receiving it- for life.
Will anyone refute my claims?

Ah Corvus...this is one of those ideas that sounds good...until u think about it. Welfare disbursements, including food stamps and Medicaid services are based on centralized data banks, and transferring them to local venues would not only fragment salient data but would be costly and inefficient, since counties and towns have variable abilities to deal with complex info...especially in rural areas.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I believe that if the data were made available to cities, the data would not prove a problem.

However, you make an excellent point concerning rural areas. I had not considered that. Considering most of my family lives in places without neighbors for miles, and as such I spend a lot of time in rural areas, I should have thought of that. Hmmmmmm.

Actually, if you read my OP, I mention perhaps giving control to county level governments. Although I originally said that in reference to areas that fell just outside of city limits, a county controlled welfare system would allow for the local gov't to reach rural areas and cities alike.

 

[CorvusRexus]

You reform it by eliminating it.

Try passing that off to those who rely upon welfare to feed their families.
Welfare is necessary with high unemployment, at least to some extent.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Publish the list of welfare recipients and what they receive.

The rest will take care of itself.

Why not?

A lot of newspaper publish their local police blotters, so the argument against stigmatization is pretty much neutralized.

I like it.

 

[Politico]

You reform it by eliminating it.

Ya...I wonder how u would feel if u lost ur job and could not find another...or lost all of ur assets in a disaster ...U never know ...Even powerful and wealthy families like the Romneys had to rely on food stamps when they moved back in from Mexico...


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That is what insurance is for.

 

[midcan5]

Why do people obsess over welfare? Why not obsess over jobs moving overseas? Or corporations (money) controlling elections? Or business keeping money hidden overseas? Or the import of foreign automobiles made by union workers who have socialized medicine and embargo American cars? Or why nothing is made in America? Or closing factories in America and moving them to cheap? Or poor wages that make life hard and hardly trickle down wealth? Should I go on?

And as far as the biblical shaming of people in need why not bring back the Old Testament religion with stoning and death for all wrong doers? We could bring back stocks and for she who sinned by losing a job exported to China have her locked in for a few days. That'll teach em.

Quote from p24 'Assault on the Middle Class' in 'The Betrayal of the American Dream' authors, Barlett and Steele.

"Yet by 2011, the Chinese had taken over the market: by then, more than 50 percent of the solar photovoltaic panels installed in America were made by Chinese companies. Chinese solar imports jumped from $21.3 million in 2005 to $2.65 billion in 2011.

What happened? In the last decade, the Chinese government set out to capture the market for manufacturing solar panels. It pumped the equivalent of billions of dollars into the country's nascent solar industry in low-cost loans, subsidies to buy land, discounts for water and power, tax exemptions, and export grants. Government aid to subsidize an export industry is illegal under global trading rules, but the Chinese forged ahead and soon cornered the world market on solar photovoltaic panels. China's exports of solar cells and panels to the United States rose a phenomenal 350 percent in just three years, from 2008 to 2010.

As massive volumes of Chinese government-supported solar cells and panels surged into the United States, prices in the domestic market collapsed. The Coalition for American Solar Manufacturing, in an October 2011 trade action, explained the consequences:

The resulting price collapse has had a devastating impact on the U.S. solar cell and panel industry, resulting in shutdowns, layoffs, and bankruptcies throughout the country. Over the past eighteen months, seven solar plants shutdown or downsized, eliminating thousands of U.S. manufacturing jobs in Arizona, California, Massachusetts, Maryland, New York, and Pennsylvania." Excerpt page 234, 'The Betrayal of the American Dream' Donald L. Barlett, James B. Steele

"Pam Sexton, a market researcher and engineer with two college degrees, described her version of the American dream like this: "The American dream is that you can work hard and be rewarded for your hard work. You'll be able to have a home and family and prosper and have medical care and nor have to worry about expenses and bills. This is a country of opportunity." But Pam, along with thousands of others, lost her telecommunications job in 2009, and the dream died: "I feel like the last few years that's all disintegrated or evaporated." It is a refrain we've heard across the country." Ms Sexton lost her job because ATT shipped it to India. p246 'The Betrayal of the American Dream' Donald L. Barlett, James B. Steele

 

[jasonnfree]

Why do people obsess over welfare? Why not obsess over jobs moving overseas? Or corporations (money) controlling elections? Or business keeping money hidden overseas? Or the import of foreign automobiles made by union workers who have socialized medicine and embargo American cars? Or why nothing is made in America? Or closing factories in America and moving them to cheap? Or poor wages that make life hard and hardly trickle down wealth? Should I go on?

And as far as the biblical shaming of people in need why not bring back the Old Testament religion with stoning and death for all wrong doers? We could bring back stocks and for she who sinned by losing a job exported to China have her locked in for a few days. That'll teach em.

Quote from p24 'Assault on the Middle Class' in 'The Betrayal of the American Dream' authors, Barlett and Steele.

"Yet by 2011, the Chinese had taken over the market: by then, more than 50 percent of the solar photovoltaic panels installed in America were made by Chinese companies. Chinese solar imports jumped from $21.3 million in 2005 to $2.65 billion in 2011.

What happened? In the last decade, the Chinese government set out to capture the market for manufacturing solar panels. It pumped the equivalent of billions of dollars into the country's nascent solar industry in low-cost loans, subsidies to buy land, discounts for water and power, tax exemptions, and export grants. Government aid to subsidize an export industry is illegal under global trading rules, but the Chinese forged ahead and soon cornered the world market on solar photovoltaic panels. China's exports of solar cells and panels to the United States rose a phenomenal 350 percent in just three years, from 2008 to 2010.

As massive volumes of Chinese government-supported solar cells and panels surged into the United States, prices in the domestic market collapsed. The Coalition for American Solar Manufacturing, in an October 2011 trade action, explained the consequences:

The resulting price collapse has had a devastating impact on the U.S. solar cell and panel industry, resulting in shutdowns, layoffs, and bankruptcies throughout the country. Over the past eighteen months, seven solar plants shutdown or downsized, eliminating thousands of U.S. manufacturing jobs in Arizona, California, Massachusetts, Maryland, New York, and Pennsylvania." Excerpt page 234, 'The Betrayal of the American Dream' Donald L. Barlett, James B. Steele

"Pam Sexton, a market researcher and engineer with two college degrees, described her version of the American dream like this: "The American dream is that you can work hard and be rewarded for your hard work. You'll be able to have a home and family and prosper and have medical care and nor have to worry about expenses and bills. This is a country of opportunity." But Pam, along with thousands of others, lost her telecommunications job in 2009, and the dream died: "I feel like the last few years that's all disintegrated or evaporated." It is a refrain we've heard across the country." Ms Sexton lost her job because ATT shipped it to India. p246 'The Betrayal of the American Dream' Donald L. Barlett, James B. Steele

Countries like Japan and Korea have strict limits on how many imports enter their countries. These policies helped build up these countries. We've done the opposite. Intentionally let the jobs disappear by way of Nafta and other treaties and then wonder why there are no well paying jobs like before. This latest plan. Get Americans more educated for high tech jobs (and let young Americans go deep in debt with student loans). Any guarantee that further policies like offshoring, outsourcing, importing low wage HB 1 visa holders won't disappear those new professions or make them low wage with the new competition? I don't believe this country even has a jobs policy. Obama, the guy that had a problem with Nafta when he was running for office the first time. He's completed trade deals starting with bush, and he's trying to get transpacific partnership on fast track where congress can't even debate it. He has no jobs policy either. He's just grandstanding.

 

[manifold]

Publish the list of welfare recipients and what they receive.

The rest will take care of itself.

Why not?

A lot of newspaper publish their local police blotters, so the argument against stigmatization is pretty much neutralized.

I like it.

I'm actually conflicted about it myself, I just threw it out there as an idea for discussion.

I'm still not convinced that welfare is so bad it's a priority for fixing. But setting that aside, the idea of publishing the recipients and what they receive has some merit...

It would certainly stigmatize somewhat, but only those with legitimate reason for shame are likely to care about the stigma. Those that are really on it through no fault of their own aren't going to give two shits about the "stigma". In fact, people who know them would actually be more inclined to help them out privately. And on the other hand, if you see someone on the list who's driving around in a Lexus, is it the worst thing in the world to call him a freeloader when you see him?

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Publish the list of welfare recipients and what they receive.

The rest will take care of itself.

Why not?

A lot of newspaper publish their local police blotters, so the argument against stigmatization is pretty much neutralized.

I like it.

I'm actually conflicted about it myself, I just threw it out there as an idea for discussion.

I'm still not convinced that welfare is so bad it's a priority for fixing. But setting that aside, the idea of publishing the recipients and what they receive has some merit...

It would certainly stigmatize somewhat, but only those with legitimate reason for shame are likely to care about the stigma. Those that are really on it through no fault of their own aren't going to give two shits about the "stigma". In fact, people who know them would actually be more inclined to help them out privately. And on the other hand, if you see someone on the list who's driving around in a Lexus, is it the worst thing in the world to call him a freeloader when you see him?

Those people would be no more stigmatized than those listed in police blotters, whom are supposed to be presumed innocent unless proved guilty. People like EBT recipients driving around in flashy luxury cars should, for the most part, be objects of ridicule and scorn.

I like the idea the more I think about it.

 

[midcan5]

Countries like Japan and Korea have strict limits on how many imports enter their countries. These policies helped build up these countries. We've done the opposite. Intentionally let the jobs disappear by way of Nafta and other treaties and then wonder why there are no well paying jobs like before. This latest plan. Get Americans more educated for high tech jobs (and let young Americans go deep in debt with student loans). Any guarantee that further policies like offshoring, outsourcing, importing low wage HB 1 visa holders won't disappear those new professions or make them low wage with the new competition? I don't believe this country even has a jobs policy. Obama, the guy that had a problem with Nafta when he was running for office the first time. He's completed trade deals starting with bush, and he's trying to get transpacific partnership on fast track where congress can't even debate it. He has no jobs policy either. He's just grandstanding.

Since he has introduced lots of jobs bills I would say he is not just grandstanding. Of course the bully pulpit is part of the job. Here's a short piece that touches on many of the problems of today.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL6Jv2Jpnpg]David Simon on America as a Horror Show - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Stephanie]

welfare used to have limits to people with children and a limit of years you could be on it
..until they did away that to where anyone and everyone could get it

reform it now, good luck

we have too many dependents on it...