religion is just brainwashing

[Meriweather]

nothing is bothering me--this shows you have pre-conceived ideas--that are brainwashing you
I'm pointing out the statistics show that the parents/culture/area --''brainwashes''/teaches/etc the kids the religion of that particular area....
the Muslims don't teach their kids Christianity

No, I don't have preconceived ideas, i don't know you (which is why I included the word "seems"). On the other hand, intentionally or not, it does come across that the number of the world's different faiths bother you. They don't bother or worry about me at all. Say I was born in a Muslim country and I heard Muslim stories about God. I believe it is likely I would have still pursued my own experiences of God, and would be pretty much in the same place I am today after having been born and lived the Catholic faith.

It is my opinion people would do well not to throw the term "brainwash" around. People who do not believe are apt to do this, and the atheists in my family tell me why. Basically, there are people who believe and people who do not. Each one of us feels all is right with us--therefore something must be "wrong" with others. They must have been "brainwashed." In fact, nothing at all is wrong with us, we just have had different approaches and experiences that made us a bit more aware of our connection with God.

It is my opinion non-believers are no less connected--they are simply more unaware of that connection.

 

[harmonica]

I'm thinking realistically--what is real--true

nothing is bothering me--this shows you have pre-conceived ideas--that are brainwashing you
I'm pointing out the statistics show that the parents/culture/area --''brainwashes''/teaches/etc the kids the religion of that particular area....
the Muslims don't teach their kids Christianity

No, I don't have preconceived ideas, i don't know you (which is why I included the word "seems"). On the other hand, intentionally or not, it does come across that the number of the world's different faiths bother you. They don't bother or worry about me at all. Say I was born in a Muslim country and I heard Muslim stories about God. I believe it is likely I would have still pursued my own experiences of God, and would be pretty much in the same place I am today after having been born and lived the Catholic faith.

It is my opinion people would do well not to throw the term "brainwash" around. People who do not believe are apt to do this, and the atheists in my family tell me why. Basically, there are people who believe and people who do not. Each one of us feels all is right with us--therefore something must be "wrong" with others. They must have been "brainwashed." In fact, nothing at all is wrong with us, we just have had different approaches and experiences that made us a bit more aware of our connection with God.

It is my opinion non-believers are no less connected--they are simply more unaware of that connection.

well, when you teach your kids a certain religion when they are still kids--I'd say that was brainwashing
you can't refuse to take religion class--at least in my grade school and high school--and my dad's
and the parents ,whose kids go to public schools, force them go to religious classes
when you are a kid you take for granted whatever your parents/priests/etc teach you as the truth

 

[Meriweather]

well, when you teach your kids a certain religion when they are still kids--I'd say that was brainwashing
you can't refuse to take religion class--at least in my grade school and high school--and my dad's
and the parents ,whose kids go to public schools, force them go to religious classes
when you are a kid you take for granted whatever your parents/priests/etc teach you as the truth

In what other aspects do you believe you became a cookie stamp model of your parents?

For example, are you the perfect model of how your parents take care of house and yard? The perfect model of the way they drive, and did you adopt their study habits? Do you dress as they dress? Is your make-up the same? Do you read the same books, have the same hobbies, the same talents, and play the same sports? Did you pick the same career?

 

[Hawkins]

well, when you teach your kids a certain religion when they are still kids--I'd say that was brainwashing
you can't refuse to take religion class--at least in my grade school and high school--and my dad's
and the parents ,whose kids go to public schools, force them go to religious classes
when you are a kid you take for granted whatever your parents/priests/etc teach you as the truth

That's exactly how you are brainwashed by your own education since childhood. A claim as a human testimony, its truth relies on the reliability and credibility of the eye witnesses.

We can examine the credibility of authors to believe what are written in history books. It is theoretically so. However in reality we have to swallow what are written in history books not because the authors are credible, it's more because we run out of options. The lack of options doesn't allow us to put a history book into ignore, even under the circumstance we can't determine how credible the source is. It's rather a situation of "you accept it or you have no history".

The difference between Christianity and history is that history is the secular recording of human deeds, while Christianity is the recording of God's deeds (thus the supernatural activities). There's basically no other way for such a kind of truth to be conveyed among humans. Whatever the activities, supernatural or natural, comprehendable or not, humans can only convey their encounters by recording them down as documents we called history if it's secular, or religion if not.

 

[harmonica]

well, when you teach your kids a certain religion when they are still kids--I'd say that was brainwashing
you can't refuse to take religion class--at least in my grade school and high school--and my dad's
and the parents ,whose kids go to public schools, force them go to religious classes
when you are a kid you take for granted whatever your parents/priests/etc teach you as the truth

That's exactly how you are brainwashed by your own education since childhood. A claim as a human testimony, its truth relies on the reliability and credibility of the eye witnesses.

We can examine the credibility of authors to believe what are written in history books. It is theoretically so. However in reality we have to swallow what are written in history books not because the authors are credible, it's more because we run out of options. The lack of options doesn't allow us to put a history book into ignore, even under the circumstance we can't determine how credible the source is. It's rather a situation of "you accept it or you have no history".

The difference between Christianity and history is that history is the secular recording of human deeds, while Christianity is the recording of God's deeds (thus the supernatural activities). There's basically no other way for such a kind of truth to be conveyed among humans. Whatever the activities, supernatural or natural, comprehendable or not, humans can only convey their encounters by recording them down as documents we called history if it's secular, or religion if not.

but there is no proof of god--god's deeds
we do have proof of WW2, the Revolutionary War, etc

 

[Hawkins]

but there is no proof of god--god's deeds
we do have proof of WW2, the Revolutionary War, etc

No, you don't have any evidence (or not as much as you think). They are all the different forms of human witnessing/testimonies. That's why the Japanese can deny Nanjing massacre any day of the week. It's an old saying that the winner wrote history. It's so because history is about the testimonies written by winners in terms of wars.

 

[harmonica]

but there is no proof of god--god's deeds
we do have proof of WW2, the Revolutionary War, etc

No, you don't have any evidence (or not as much as you think). They are all the different forms of human witnessing/testimonies. That's why the Japanese can deny Nanjing massacre any day of the week. It's an old saying that the winner wrote history. It's so because history is about the testimonies written by winners in terms of wars.

there is no evidence of the A bombs? Dresden? Pearl Harbor?
there was no Battle of the Bulge? what are you saying? ??!!

 

[harmonica]

but there is no proof of god--god's deeds
we do have proof of WW2, the Revolutionary War, etc

No, you don't have any evidence (or not as much as you think). They are all the different forms of human witnessing/testimonies. That's why the Japanese can deny Nanjing massacre any day of the week. It's an old saying that the winner wrote history. It's so because history is about the testimonies written by winners in terms of wars.

all of these battles, events are cross checked by the Germans, British, US ,etc records.
what are you saying?? these didn't happen?

 

[there4eyeM]

Certain Protestant congregations insist that those who join, even youth members 'raised' in the church, be instructed openly in the faith and become a member as a conscious, adult decision. The Roman Church and many others effectively obfuscate and/or make decision moot. The Hebrew religion must literally be born into, but statistics tell us that populations can be thought of as being born into an established religion. That should indicate something to us about this apparent human need to believe. Even many Buddhists practice a faith very like the elaborate Western churches.

The similar ways of Infantilizing the populace with child-like concepts of 'God' has not produced the highest attainable level of humans peacefully co-habitating.

The only way one could ever know any existent 'God' is personal experience and mature understanding of what 'God' must be to be 'God'.

 

[OnePercenter]

Religion is brainwashing for profit.

 

[harmonica]

Religion is brainwashing for profit.

Nowadays the papers might call it ‘Indulgence-gate’, but at the time corruption was common in the church’s highest offices. Leo X was Pope in Rome, a member of the high-living de Medici family. He dished out bishoprics to his favorite relatives and tapped the Vatican treasury to support his extravagant lifestyle.

Selling Forgiveness: How Money Sparked the Protestant Reformation

the Inquisition, the pedophile priests with the hierarchy trying to sweep it under the rug, etc

 

[OnePercenter]

Religion is brainwashing for profit.

Nowadays the papers might call it ‘Indulgence-gate’, but at the time corruption was common in the church’s highest offices. Leo X was Pope in Rome, a member of the high-living de Medici family. He dished out bishoprics to his favorite relatives and tapped the Vatican treasury to support his extravagant lifestyle.

Selling Forgiveness: How Money Sparked the Protestant Reformation

the Inquisition, the pedophile priests with the hierarchy trying to sweep it under the rug, etc

All tax free!!!!

 

[Cecilie1200]

....all the Catholics I know, including my father's family, grew up Catholic
since they were babies, their parents took them to church and school where they were taught, from their earliest childhood--about Catholicism
...this is like brainwashing kids to believe in ''something''
..sure, they ask them if they want to ''renounce satan, follow jesus, etc--later!--but even this is ''forced'' on them
isn't this the way most religions are?

if I were born in Indonesia, chances are very, very great I would not be Catholic--but Islamic---

Okay, first of all, so what?

Second of all, what do you think parenting IS, except for teaching your children right and wrong and the way the world works to the best of your understanding?

Third, very few people in my experience retain the beliefs they are taught as children without ever giving them any contemplation as adults. It's much more common for people to hit an age where they begin forming their own views and opinions, and either reject their parents' beliefs for good, or eventually choose on their own to accept them.

If you really, genuinely want to explore this, then fine, but frankly, the tone of your post suggests you're really just looking to rant and rail against religion. Which takes us back to my first question: so what? What's it to you what people believe and why?

first of all--this is a forum---anybody and everybody can say--''so what''--what a dumbass you are--this is a DISCUSSION forum
since you don't want to discuss civilly and politely--you get the ignore button
''the tone''' ..there is no tone

I'm not saying, "So what?" dumb shit. I'm ASKING you. It's an actual question.

The problem isn't that I'm uncivil. It's that YOU'RE uncivil, and automatically project your incivility onto how you read everyone else's post.

All I heard from your post was "I don't talk to people who challenge me. I only talk to those who applaud me."

And having politeness demanded by someone who started the thread with "Religion is brainwashing" and "forced on them" is pretty damned rich. Yeah, there's no "tone" to that.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It provides answers and strength and guidance and comfort to many.

Why do grown adults need a fairy tale to "provide answers and strength?"

Humans have always had that need. If mocking and insulting them makes you feel a little better about yourself (it looks like you have a need, too, huh?), have at it.
.

Its best when the answers come from a bedrock of truth, as opposed to speculative dogma with weak foundation.

It doesnt ultimately serve the one seeking answers and strength when it comes from a lie.

You mean like the lie that only that which is material is true?

 

[RWNJ]

....all the Catholics I know, including my father's family, grew up Catholic
since they were babies, their parents took them to church and school where they were taught, from their earliest childhood--about Catholicism
...this is like brainwashing kids to believe in ''something''
..sure, they ask them if they want to ''renounce satan, follow jesus, etc--later!--but even this is ''forced'' on them
isn't this the way most religions are?

if I were born in Indonesia, chances are very, very great I would not be Catholic--but Islamic---

MSM, Hollywood, Public schools, College. THAT'S brainwashing.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Homosexuality good.

Strawman. Being completely accepting of something is neither advocacy of that something, nor a value judgment of it. .

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Remind me that I don't EVER want to meet any little hellions raised by you.

What a stupid thing to say. As if you could make any predictions about the temperament or morals of my children. I would not deign to do the same of your children, despite my determination that you are brainwashing them with religion.

Yeah, actually, I can. It would be that empirical evidence you're so fond of claiming. I can look at you, and draw conclusions based on heredity. And then I can look at your ignorance of morality and hostility toward anything not "scientific" and your lack of understanding of parenting in terms of those "non-scientific" things, and draw pretty accurate conclusions about that.

And you're fooling yourself if you think you aren't very much "deigning" to reach conclusions about my children and how they're raised. I direct you to your constant use of the word "brainwashing". If you're going to be an arrogant, pompous boob, at least own it.

Just because they are brainwashed does not necessarily lead me to believe they are of ill temperament or immoral. And again, thank the secular ideas of classical liberalism and scientific enlightenment for that one. Otherwise, they might be grubby little genocidal fundamentalists.

And no, you could not pretend to predict anything about my children. You embarrass yourself to say so.

 

[zaangalewa]

I don't know why some people of the english speaking world are not able to read my German. I will repeat for you what I said:

(1) Every human being was always religious since human beings are existing (except perhaps on reasons of brain defects)
(2) Atheism is a belief

And what I did not say until now: If the USA should need body guards for Santa, we have some ...

I'm agnostic, and no, people aren't born religious, it's a man-made concept.

If you follow the philosophy agnosticism then you know that atheism is belief. And it's completely clear that every human being is religious. The first human cultures started with religion. And never existed a culture without religion including atheism.Your problem is perhaps that you are a brainwashed brainwasher on your own.

Man has used religion to explain that which he did not understand. Nobody is born religious and you can't prove it either. But go ahead and try, we'll wait.

Interesting creed. But the questions behind this creed are not spiritual and I don't share any creed in case of questions of philosophy and science. You deny facts by using empty phrases - that's all.

What "facts" am I denying?

For example the fact, that the belief of "scientists" religion tries to be a better form of natural science is not only a little stupid, even if Nobel price winners argue in such stupid ways. Some people seem to confuse empiricism and imperialism. The world all around exists not in anyone's brain - also not in your brain. If you say you are an agnostic then you have to accept that atheism is a belief. If you say you are an atheist then you are not an agnostics. Why the most people in the English speaking world are using the word agnosticism instead of atheism is a strange miracle.

 

[zaangalewa]

If you can present some credible evidence that God created the earth, I will happily believe it. So far no one has been able to do that. Care to give it a shot?

How does it matter, how does it affect anyone's life, whether or not God created the earth?

I hate films without an happy end. And god is the happy end. So I hope he made the script.

It's by the way indeed idiotic and far from any art of thinking to say "Give me a prove of the existence of the creator of all and every existence". Even in an easier case normally no one knows for example who made his car or his house. And if he is not able to leave this house - specially if he is only a fruit fly there - how to find out who made it? What would a fruit fly be able to understand about how to create all and every existence and a complete universe?

Nevertheless let me say: We are no fruit flies (nice creatures by the way, very fragile). We are the children of god. And god is not a liar. So we are able to find out - also in physics and other natural sciences - what's really going on. Step by step. Needs some patience, that's all. When we will be ready for a new part of the truth, then He will give us the inspirations to be able to find it. Who seeks will find.

 

[zaangalewa]

....all the Catholics I know, including my father's family, grew up Catholic
since they were babies, their parents took them to church and school where they were taught, from their earliest childhood--about Catholicism
...this is like brainwashing kids to believe in ''something''
..sure, they ask them if they want to ''renounce satan, follow jesus, etc--later!--but even this is ''forced'' on them
isn't this the way most religions are?

if I were born in Indonesia, chances are very, very great I would not be Catholic--but Islamic---

So because your parents are Catholics this minimized your risk to become an Islamist. That's why your parents are wrong.

?? wrong? how?

You called them "brainwashed" - that's another word for "to be an ideologist". Ideology and wrongness are the same. Religions are able to be an ideology too - but the Christians religion, the religion of love, is not an ideology.