Zone1 Religion is not needed if a "golden rule" is valued

[Foxfyre]

View attachment 885285

As happens in many many public school classrooms in America these days.

At least with religion, participation is purely voluntary and there are no laws mandating that anyone must participate in it.

 

[Arlette]

As happens in many many public school classrooms in America these days.

At least with religion, participation is purely voluntary and there are no laws mandating that anyone must participate in it.

Wtf is your problem? Arguing against education is nuts.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Love God with all your heart, mind and soul is the first commandment. Without that, you can't get people to follow the second commandment, love your neighbor as yourself.

I don’t agree. I was going to ask “Why is that?” But it strikes me that the key point you imply here is that people seem to need to be “commanded” about such matters in the first place.

The Golden Rule (“Treat your neighbor as you would like to be treated yourself”) is what Enlightenment philosopher Emmanuel Kant called a “categorical imperative” — that is a conclusion based on natural human reason and logic.

But while I think it is indeed a conclusion most societies and social contract theories naturally arrive at eventually even without religion, I agree that there is a necessity to have laws and punishments to enforce the rights and obligations of individuals in society as well.

This is the “command” role of law and social norms. The Golden Rule is usually a key part of the moral instruction of parents to children in every well-functioning modern society, even if as they grow up to become adults they inevitably recognize that in reality society runs on quite different rules. Societies generally don’t rely on the logical strength of the Golden Rule. But it still makes good sense for most modern societies to inculcate this value in children, and not, e.g., “Take from the weak and abuse them.”

Again, it seems to me no religion is necessary for all this, though many in our society do seem to need religion as both a crutch and a “Sword of Damocles” to act right.

 

[Foxfyre]

Wtf is your problem? Arguing against education is nuts.

Arguing against false or manipulative education is no different than arguing against false or manipulative religion.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

Consider all that is happening around you. With all that is going on, the most important thing is for you to be happy?

I wish for EVERYONE is be as happy as possible, and that is more likely if we exercise empathy, fairness, and respect (for cultural differences OR individuality). Of course, we have to deal with psychopaths and egocentric, greedy people along the way!

 

[ViewFromAbove]

No. Not exactly.

The first five books of the Bible (known as the Torah) were credited to Moses - an adopted son of the king of Egypt - in approximately 1400 B.C.. These five books focus on the beginning of the nation of Israel; but the first 11 chapters of the Torah records the history that all nations have in common. These allegorical accounts of the history of the world had been passed down from generation to generation orally for thousands of years. Moses did not really write the first 11 chapters of the Bible. Moses was the first Hebrew to record them.

Approximately 800 years before Moses recorded the allegorical accounts of the history of the world. The Chinese recorded this history as symbols in the Chinese language. They drew pictures to express words or ideas. Simple pictures were combined to make more complex thoughts. They used well known history and common everyday things to make a word so people could easily remember it. The account of Genesis found it's way into the Chinese written language because the Chinese had migrated from the cradle of civilization. Prior to this migration they all shared a common history and religion.

The Bible even explains how it was possible for the Chinese to record the account of Genesis 800 years before Moses recorded it. The account of the Tower of Babel was the allegorical account of the great migration from Mesopotamia. This also explains why all ancient cultures have an account of a great flood. Because they all shared a common history and religion before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

The first eleven chapters of the Torah are an allegorical account of world history before the great migration from Mesopotamia which was an actual historical event. Seen in this light these accounts should be viewed less like fairy tales and more like how important information was passed down in ancient times. Just as the Chinese used well known history and everyday things as symbols in their written language to make words easier to remember, ancient man used stories to pass down historical events and important knowledge to future generations. Interspersed in these allegorical accounts of history are wisdoms that they deemed important enough to pass down and remember. Such as man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he didn't do wrong. Most people - like yourself - don't even realize this wisdom is in the Torah because they read it critically instead of searching for the wisdom that ancient man knew and found important enough to include in his account of world history.

You believe a mythological character called "Moses" wrote the first 5 books in Genesis, and the "allegorical" folklore from thousands of years ago has meaning in today's scientific world, other than studies in cultural anthropology? To each, their own beliefs, but mine are not based on unverified or illogical claims, no matter how "allegorical".

 

[ViewFromAbove]

So it would be fair to say that for you life is about the satisfaction of material needs and primitive instincts?

That is "step 1" for ALL animal life, and humans are animals too. However, humans are capable of enjoying much much more cognitive & emotional satisfactions.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

Because we were made for more.

But you are free to pursue fame, fortune, power and pleasure. Of course, none of those will satisfy you either. Because you were made for more.

Made? Are you referring to the "God" fantasy?

 

[ViewFromAbove]

Me too. What's your field? Mine is engineering.

You are not a pure scientist. They are agnostic.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

Actually Darwin would disagree with you on that.

You don't know Darwin, but he lived more recently than Moses.

 

[Mashmont]

She is. She's asking him a sincere question. A fair question. One that is designed to bring him to his incongruity.

If all life is is the consumption of material goods and satisfaction of primitive impulses (aka happiness), then why is everyone destined to die?

Happiness is actually quite important but not in this bastardized version. Happiness isn't the goal, it's the artifact of a well lived life which is not the carefree consumption of material goods and satisfaction of primitive impulses that materialists make it out to be.

True happiness is only achieved by serving others.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

When I first saw the title of this thread, I said BS and moved on

But then I remembered that most people are not Catholic and weren't even raised half-ass Catholic

In any case, you are as WRONG as can be. My own life history is a PRIME example

No, I'm not going to give you details about my personal life, especially from the distant past. I am a totally different person today because of Christ and HIS Church.

You can criticize religion in general and certain ones in particular all you want. Have at it. But you don't know what we Catholics know.

And as closed minded as most non-Catholics are, looks like you never will

very sad

You are correct; I don't know folklore. I have an agnostic, scientific perspective where reality is objective.

 

[Mashmont]

You are correct; I don't know folklore. I have an agnostic, scientific perspective where reality is objective.

If reality is the truly the objective, then that leads directly to Christian teaching.

 

[BreezeWood]

self determination

?

really, the choice made by adam and eve to earn their presence in the everlasting is not known to zaan ...

yet they condemn those two for what never occurred, a false narrative of sin and deceit madeup by the liar moses and the corroborators that wrote their judaism bible. and reiterated by all three desert religions.

rather as taught by jesus and those others that gave their lives - the repudiation of judaism in the 1st century.

 

[zaangalewa]

really, the choice made by adam and eve to earn their presence in the everlasting is not known to zaan ...

yet they condemn those two for what never occurred, a false narrative of sin and deceit madeup by the liar moses and the corroborators that wrote their judaism bible. and reiterated by all three desert religions.

rather as taught by jesus and those others that gave their lives - the repudiation of judaism in the 1st century.

Aha - and what do you expect now from me ... ahm sorry: "us".

 

[ding]

You believe a mythological character called "Moses" wrote the first 5 books in Genesis, and the "allegorical" folklore from thousands of years ago has meaning in today's scientific world, other than studies in cultural anthropology? To each, their own beliefs, but mine are not based on unverified or illogical claims, no matter how "allegorical".

No. Moses was the first to record the accounts in writing.

The first five books of the Bible (known as the Torah) were written by Moses - an adopted son of the king of Egypt - in approximately 1400 B.C.. These five books focus on the beginning of the nation of Israel; but the first 11 chapters of the Torah records the history that all nations have in common. These allegorical accounts of the history of the world had been passed down from generation to generation orally for thousands of years. Moses did not really write the first 11 chapters of the Bible. Moses was the first Hebrew to record them.

Approximately 800 years before Moses recorded the allegorical accounts of the history of the world. The Chinese recorded this history as symbols in the Chinese language. They drew pictures to express words or ideas. Simple pictures were combined to make more complex thoughts. They used well known history and common everyday things to make a word so people could easily remember it. The account of Genesis found it's way into the Chinese written language because the Chinese had migrated from the cradle of civilization. Prior to this migration they all shared a common history and religion.

The Bible even explains how it was possible for the Chinese to record the account of Genesis 800 years before Moses recorded it. The account of the Tower of Babel was the allegorical account of the great migration from Mesopotamia. This also explains why all ancient cultures have an account of a great flood. Because they all shared a common history and religion before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

 

[ding]

That is "step 1" for ALL animal life, and humans are animals too. However, humans are capable of enjoying much much more cognitive & emotional satisfactions.

If you are not more than matter, then satisfaction of material needs is all you have.

 

[ding]

Made? Are you referring to the "God" fantasy?

Everything was created ~14 billion years ago. It's just science.

 

[Blues Man]

Love God with all your heart, mind and soul is the first commandment. Without that, you can't get people to follow the second commandment, love your neighbor as yourself.

That's not the second commandment

 

[ding]

You are not a pure scientist. They are agnostic.

That would be incorrect. Modern science began in the Catholic Church. The father of modern genetics was a Catholic priest. The scientist who discovered the big bang was a Catholic priest. The paleontologist who studied Peking Man was a Catholic priest.