Religious Tolerance: Church kicks whole family out for supporting their gay daughter

[LittleNipper]

Correct.

Churches can be sued under public accommodation laws as secular property owners. Churches are also subject to secular health and safety laws, zoning laws, and employment wage and working condition laws.

No church, however, can be compelled by the state to change its religious doctrine or dogma with regard to marriage to accommodate same-sex couples, to argue otherwise is to be willfully ignorant.

There is nothing secular about a church, ever. It is actually impossible, by definition. Even Secular Humanism is not secular when they organize as a church.

The obvious aside, there is nothing in the Constitution, or federal law, that is going to prevent states from requiring churches to preform weddings under public accommodation laws. The proof of that is the article Seawycth posted that explains how it works, and why states shouldn't allow religious exemptions to same sex marraige.

Churches have to obey secular laws, rules, regulations, ordinances and many other societal secular mores everyday. Zoning, environmental and impact studies, construction codes, parking lot regulations; dozens of secular things. Most are MANDATORY for the church.
First you claim there are now rulings that force churches to do things.
And we prove that false you now run with another curve ball stating that since The Constitution has nothing in it preventing states from requiring churches to perform weddings then it may/will happen.
What is next? Since nothing in The Constitution prevents states from requiring churches to perform topless weddings then there will be?
You have a wild imagination, have to give you that.
None of what you claim will happen. No church will ever be required to marry anyone they do not want to.

And Christians will be able to publish literature that states that human homosexual sexual contact is depravity and most definitely not representative of the spiritual quality ideal, marriage should represent biblically. Such books will still be available in our public libraries where freedom of speech reigns. And Christian owners of bed and breakfast establishments and Christian owned & operated hotel accommodations will not have to allow homosexual couples in their honeymoon suites. That is for sure...

 

[thanatos144]

if tomorrow homosexuals were allowed to marry across the country the next day homosexuals would be suing Christian churches for not marrying them. because it isn't about marriage it is about destroying the Christian Church.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

if tomorrow homosexuals were allowed to marry across the country the next day homosexuals would be suing Christian churches for not marrying them. because it isn't about marriage it is about destroying the Christian Church.

Obviously you’re unaware of how stupid this post is.

But we get it: you hate homosexuals.

And unfortunately, inexplicably, you have a lot of company. Which is why we have a Constitution, to protect citizens from your ignorance and hate, including citizens who are homosexual.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

There is nothing secular about a church, ever. It is actually impossible, by definition. Even Secular Humanism is not secular when they organize as a church.

The obvious aside, there is nothing in the Constitution, or federal law, that is going to prevent states from requiring churches to preform weddings under public accommodation laws. The proof of that is the article Seawycth posted that explains how it works, and why states shouldn't allow religious exemptions to same sex marraige.

Churches have to obey secular laws, rules, regulations, ordinances and many other societal secular mores everyday. Zoning, environmental and impact studies, construction codes, parking lot regulations; dozens of secular things. Most are MANDATORY for the church.
First you claim there are now rulings that force churches to do things.
And we prove that false you now run with another curve ball stating that since The Constitution has nothing in it preventing states from requiring churches to perform weddings then it may/will happen.
What is next? Since nothing in The Constitution prevents states from requiring churches to perform topless weddings then there will be?
You have a wild imagination, have to give you that.
None of what you claim will happen. No church will ever be required to marry anyone they do not want to.

And Christians will be able to publish literature that states that human homosexual sexual contact is depravity and most definitely not representative of the spiritual quality ideal, marriage should represent biblically. Such books will still be available in our public libraries where freedom of speech reigns. And Christian owners of bed and breakfast establishments and Christian owned & operated hotel accommodations will not have to allow homosexual couples in their honeymoon suites. That is for sure...

That’s the ticket: keep the hate alive.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Churches have to obey secular laws, rules, regulations, ordinances and many other societal secular mores everyday. Zoning, environmental and impact studies, construction codes, parking lot regulations; dozens of secular things. Most are MANDATORY for the church.

WTF?

Do you just post idiocy whenever you see Quantum Windbag?

I never said churches don't have to obey laws. In fact, I have argued throughout this thread that laws actually apply to churches, which is why I keep arguing that they can be sued. If you want to argue with someone that thinks churches are above the law argue with Seawytch and Jones, both of whim operate under the delusion that churches cannot be sued.

First you claim there are now rulings that force churches to do things.

Again, WTF? Didn't you just jump over me because you claimed I thought churches were above the law? Now you are upset because I am saying they aren't? Do you even think when you are posting?

And we prove that false you now run with another curve ball stating that since The Constitution has nothing in it preventing states from requiring churches to perform weddings then it may/will happen.

Another curve ball? I have made the same argument from the beginning, nothing in the Constitution prevents a church from being sued.

Which curve ball am I supposed to be using now? Just asking so that I can properly mock your straw man argument.

What is next? Since nothing in The Constitution prevents states from requiring churches to perform topless weddings then there will be?

Could you stop drooling and repeat the question?

You have a wild imagination, have to give you that.
None of what you claim will happen. No church will ever be required to marry anyone they do not want to.

Yep. and no Christian will ever be forced to go to a same sex marriage if they don't want to.

Want to explain why I should believe that crap when it clearly flies in the face of current law?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

if tomorrow homosexuals were allowed to marry across the country the next day homosexuals would be suing Christian churches for not marrying them. because it isn't about marriage it is about destroying the Christian Church.

Obviously you’re unaware of how stupid this post is.

But we get it: you hate homosexuals.

And unfortunately, inexplicably, you have a lot of company. Which is why we have a Constitution, to protect citizens from your ignorance and hate, including citizens who are homosexual.

Can you explain why a couple would sue someone for not attending their wedding? If there are people like that, why is it stupid to believe that they will sue churches? Especially when they have done so, and you admit it.

 

[Seawytch]

Funny, I don't recall saying it said that, I said it clearly argues that the Constitution does not prevent churches, or clergy, from being sued over violations of public accommodation laws. I even quoted the section that explained it.

Yet you insist on changing what I said, and then arguing a new position.

I never claimed they couldn't be sued under public accommodation laws. My claim remains that churches and/or clergy cannot be forced to perform ceremonies for any couple they don't want to.

No, you claimed that the Constitution prohibits churches being sued. You are now pretending that was not your claim rather than admit you were wrong. II can't force you to admit you were wrong, but I have actually forced you to lie about what you said. Small victory, but I will take it.

And I clarified over and over and over (and over and over) that I meant in regards to forcing them to marry a couple. It will NEVER be successful. You're just being an ass about it because your'e the one who is wrong.

 

[Seawytch]

There is nothing secular about a church, ever. It is actually impossible, by definition. Even Secular Humanism is not secular when they organize as a church.

The obvious aside, there is nothing in the Constitution, or federal law, that is going to prevent states from requiring churches to preform weddings under public accommodation laws. The proof of that is the article Seawycth posted that explains how it works, and why states shouldn't allow religious exemptions to same sex marraige.

Churches have to obey secular laws, rules, regulations, ordinances and many other societal secular mores everyday. Zoning, environmental and impact studies, construction codes, parking lot regulations; dozens of secular things. Most are MANDATORY for the church.
First you claim there are now rulings that force churches to do things.
And we prove that false you now run with another curve ball stating that since The Constitution has nothing in it preventing states from requiring churches to perform weddings then it may/will happen.
What is next? Since nothing in The Constitution prevents states from requiring churches to perform topless weddings then there will be?
You have a wild imagination, have to give you that.
None of what you claim will happen. No church will ever be required to marry anyone they do not want to.

And Christians will be able to publish literature that states that human homosexual sexual contact is depravity and most definitely not representative of the spiritual quality ideal, marriage should represent biblically. Such books will still be available in our public libraries where freedom of speech reigns.

They can publish them...there just will be fewer and fewer people buying or reading them.

And Christian owners of bed and breakfast establishments and Christian owned & operated hotel accommodations will not have to allow homosexual couples in their honeymoon suites. That is for sure...

No actually, that is not "for sure". That will depend upon the Public Accommodation laws of the state in which they operate their business.

 

[Seawytch]

No church will ever be required to marry anyone they do not want to.

That is correct and what I've been saying since the onset of this thread. No church has ever nor will they ever been required to marry someone. Not interfaith couples, not interracial couples, not divorced couples and not gay couples.

Churches are going to change all on their own without any legislative pressure to do it. They will change because their membership will dwindle and their coffers will grow light. The churches will adapt or die.

 

[Seawytch]

I never claimed they couldn't be sued under public accommodation laws. My claim remains that churches and/or clergy cannot be forced to perform ceremonies for any couple they don't want to.

Correct.

Churches can be sued under public accommodation laws as secular property owners. Churches are also subject to secular health and safety laws, zoning laws, and employment wage and working condition laws.

No church, however, can be compelled by the state to change its religious doctrine or dogma with regard to marriage to accommodate same-sex couples, to argue otherwise is to be willfully ignorant.

There is nothing secular about a church, ever. It is actually impossible, by definition. Even Secular Humanism is not secular when they organize as a church.

The obvious aside, there is nothing in the Constitution, or federal law, that is going to prevent states from requiring churches to preform weddings under public accommodation laws. The proof of that is the article Seawycth posted that explains how it works, and why states shouldn't allow religious exemptions to same sex marraige.

Point it out, in the article provided, where it says PA laws will be used to force churches to marry people. Exact paragraph please.

 

[Gadawg73]

Gay marriage, such a non issue.
Only busy body mother hen bored folks with nothing better to do than stick their noses in others' business are concerned about it.

 

[LittleNipper]

Churches have to obey secular laws, rules, regulations, ordinances and many other societal secular mores everyday. Zoning, environmental and impact studies, construction codes, parking lot regulations; dozens of secular things. Most are MANDATORY for the church.
First you claim there are now rulings that force churches to do things.
And we prove that false you now run with another curve ball stating that since The Constitution has nothing in it preventing states from requiring churches to perform weddings then it may/will happen.
What is next? Since nothing in The Constitution prevents states from requiring churches to perform topless weddings then there will be?
You have a wild imagination, have to give you that.
None of what you claim will happen. No church will ever be required to marry anyone they do not want to.

And Christians will be able to publish literature that states that human homosexual sexual contact is depravity and most definitely not representative of the spiritual quality ideal, marriage should represent biblically. Such books will still be available in our public libraries where freedom of speech reigns. And Christian owners of bed and breakfast establishments and Christian owned & operated hotel accommodations will not have to allow homosexual couples in their honeymoon suites. That is for sure...

That’s the ticket: keep the hate alive.

Hate reigns where prayer and Bible reading are discouraged and the government is placed in charge.

 

[LittleNipper]

Churches have to obey secular laws, rules, regulations, ordinances and many other societal secular mores everyday. Zoning, environmental and impact studies, construction codes, parking lot regulations; dozens of secular things. Most are MANDATORY for the church.
First you claim there are now rulings that force churches to do things.
And we prove that false you now run with another curve ball stating that since The Constitution has nothing in it preventing states from requiring churches to perform weddings then it may/will happen.
What is next? Since nothing in The Constitution prevents states from requiring churches to perform topless weddings then there will be?
You have a wild imagination, have to give you that.
None of what you claim will happen. No church will ever be required to marry anyone they do not want to.

And Christians will be able to publish literature that states that human homosexual sexual contact is depravity and most definitely not representative of the spiritual quality ideal, marriage should represent biblically. Such books will still be available in our public libraries where freedom of speech reigns.

They can publish them...there just will be fewer and fewer people buying or reading them.

And Christian owners of bed and breakfast establishments and Christian owned & operated hotel accommodations will not have to allow homosexual couples in their honeymoon suites. That is for sure...

No actually, that is not "for sure". That will depend upon the Public Accommodation laws of the state in which they operate their business.

And the majority doesn't have a say --- only government officials, along with the ruling gods in the Federal court system....

 

[Gadawg73]

And Christians will be able to publish literature that states that human homosexual sexual contact is depravity and most definitely not representative of the spiritual quality ideal, marriage should represent biblically. Such books will still be available in our public libraries where freedom of speech reigns.

They can publish them...there just will be fewer and fewer people buying or reading them.

And Christian owners of bed and breakfast establishments and Christian owned & operated hotel accommodations will not have to allow homosexual couples in their honeymoon suites. That is for sure...

No actually, that is not "for sure". That will depend upon the Public Accommodation laws of the state in which they operate their business.

And the majority doesn't have a say --- only government officials, along with the ruling gods in the Federal court system....

You do not live in a majority mob rule country.
Something about The Constitution, a document founded on the protection of the rights of the individual, not the majority.
Amazing folks want to take that document that was drafted and passed specifically to tell the government what IT CAN NOT DO and twist it, distort it and bastardize it into something that it was never intended to do: tell a certain group of people, gay folks, what THEY CAN NOT DO.

 

[bianco]

Gee...I wonder why membership is dwindling at churches?

Quite.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I never claimed they couldn't be sued under public accommodation laws. My claim remains that churches and/or clergy cannot be forced to perform ceremonies for any couple they don't want to.

No, you claimed that the Constitution prohibits churches being sued. You are now pretending that was not your claim rather than admit you were wrong. II can't force you to admit you were wrong, but I have actually forced you to lie about what you said. Small victory, but I will take it.

And I clarified over and over and over (and over and over) that I meant in regards to forcing them to marry a couple. It will NEVER be successful. You're just being an ass about it because your'e the one who is wrong.

If by clarification you mean you tried to argue you didn't mean what you said I will give it to you.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Correct.

Churches can be sued under public accommodation laws as secular property owners. Churches are also subject to secular health and safety laws, zoning laws, and employment wage and working condition laws.

No church, however, can be compelled by the state to change its religious doctrine or dogma with regard to marriage to accommodate same-sex couples, to argue otherwise is to be willfully ignorant.

There is nothing secular about a church, ever. It is actually impossible, by definition. Even Secular Humanism is not secular when they organize as a church.

The obvious aside, there is nothing in the Constitution, or federal law, that is going to prevent states from requiring churches to preform weddings under public accommodation laws. The proof of that is the article Seawycth posted that explains how it works, and why states shouldn't allow religious exemptions to same sex marraige.

Point it out, in the article provided, where it says PA laws will be used to force churches to marry people. Exact paragraph please.

Go read it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Gay marriage, such a non issue.
Only busy body mother hen bored folks with nothing better to do than stick their noses in others' business are concerned about it.

Which explains why you always pop in and talk about it.

 

[bodecea]

There is nothing secular about a church, ever. It is actually impossible, by definition. Even Secular Humanism is not secular when they organize as a church.

The obvious aside, there is nothing in the Constitution, or federal law, that is going to prevent states from requiring churches to preform weddings under public accommodation laws. The proof of that is the article Seawycth posted that explains how it works, and why states shouldn't allow religious exemptions to same sex marraige.

Churches have to obey secular laws, rules, regulations, ordinances and many other societal secular mores everyday. Zoning, environmental and impact studies, construction codes, parking lot regulations; dozens of secular things. Most are MANDATORY for the church.
First you claim there are now rulings that force churches to do things.
And we prove that false you now run with another curve ball stating that since The Constitution has nothing in it preventing states from requiring churches to perform weddings then it may/will happen.
What is next? Since nothing in The Constitution prevents states from requiring churches to perform topless weddings then there will be?
You have a wild imagination, have to give you that.
None of what you claim will happen. No church will ever be required to marry anyone they do not want to.

And Christians will be able to publish literature that states that human homosexual sexual contact is depravity and most definitely not representative of the spiritual quality ideal, marriage should represent biblically. Such books will still be available in our public libraries where freedom of speech reigns. And Christian owners of bed and breakfast establishments and Christian owned & operated hotel accommodations will not have to allow homosexual couples in their honeymoon suites. That is for sure...

And they'll probably end up with their own websites like Stormfront is for the hardcore, never-say-die racists.

 

[Seawytch]

There is nothing secular about a church, ever. It is actually impossible, by definition. Even Secular Humanism is not secular when they organize as a church.

The obvious aside, there is nothing in the Constitution, or federal law, that is going to prevent states from requiring churches to preform weddings under public accommodation laws. The proof of that is the article Seawycth posted that explains how it works, and why states shouldn't allow religious exemptions to same sex marraige.

Point it out, in the article provided, where it says PA laws will be used to force churches to marry people. Exact paragraph please.

Go read it.

I did which is why I know it doesn't say what you claim. Your inability to post the paragraph speaks volumes as well.