Report: Israel, Hamas holding secret talks through Egypt

[Lipush]

I don't have a problem that you're adopted. But thanks for stating your biological mother wasn't Jewish nor Israeli. It doesn't matter what your adoptive mother is. So as a baby you were converted. Not out of choice. You may like Judaism now though. You don't need to explain, I already knew this stuff.

In Judaism, and in Israel, it is not simple to convert a child, expecially if a child is Gentile-Born. When reaching age of understanding, the young boy/girl can say "I don't wish to carry the burden of Judaism" and has the ability to 'return' to the original religion, taking to mind that he was not willingly converted.

He/she has also the ability to say "I want", and once that it is said, it is viewed as if the peron in question was Jew since birth. Since they chose Judaism and view themselves as Jews, those who say "I want" will be viewed as Jews from now on like they were carried inside the womb of a Jewish mother.

I long ago stated- "I want".

I obviously know that and I don't really care, I don't want to get too personal but if your mother passed away when you were young I'm sorry to hear that.

That's not the case, but thanks anyway.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

The israeli intelligence wing in the military stated infront of the nation that the lead points into Gaza and that some of the shooters were Gazans.

I trust their word.

That's a filthy lie by the Israeli forces. Resistance groups had nothing to do with attack from Egypt.

Ok, sure. Whatever.

IDF Spokesperson: We DIDN?T say PRC was behind Eilat attack | +972 Magazine

Here's the quote. It was a pathetic lie.

The Real News Network’s Lia Tarachansky asked IDF Spokesperson Lt. Colonel Avital Leibovitz for evidence that the PRC was, indeed, responsible for the Eilat terror attack. Liebovitz responded that the Israel “did not say that this group was responsible for the terror attack.” This quote distanced the IDF spokesperson from the public statements Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made on the evening of the attack placing clear responsibility on the PRC. Backtracking in the interview, Liebovitz said,

"We did not say that this group was responsible for the terror attack. We based this on intelligence information as well as some facts that [we] actually presented an hour ago to some wires and journalists. Some of the findings that were from the bodies of the terrorists, and they are using, for example, Kalashnikov bullets and Kalashnikov rifles [which] are very common in Gaza."

In response to this quote, Paul Woodward at War in Context responded “So, the IDF says it “knows” the gunmen came from Gaza because they were using Kalashnikovs. That’s about as logical as saying they know they came from Gaza because they appeared to be Arabs.”

............

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Btw, the attack was not a terror attack, but an attack at Israeli military planes and troops.

2011 southern Israel cross-border attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The militants, dressed in brown uniforms resembling those of the Egyptian Army, then began attacking passing vehicles, waving white handkerchiefs to fool motorists.[2] One of the militants attacked a bus that drove by and detonated the suicide bomb belt he was wearing, killing himself and the bus driver, who had stopped the empty bus.[34] Another militant opened fire at a passing car and killed the female driver. The same militant then fired an RPG at an Israeli Air Force helicopter, but missed. An IDF jeep from the Golani Brigade then arrived at the scene and ran over the militant, killing him.[10] Another Golani Brigade jeep arrived, and ran over a roadside bomb. As the soldiers exited the damaged vehicle, the surviving militant opened fire at them. Soldiers and Yamam special police officers then located the militant and killed him in a gunbattle. Two other militants then opened fire at the from Egyptian territory. Israeli forces briefly crossed the border and killed both of the militants. One Israeli soldier was killed by friendly fire during the engagement and several soldiers were wounded.[36][37][38][39] The Egyptian Army informed the IDF that its soldiers killed two more militants in the Sinai.[10]

It mostly injured Israeli troops, I don't see where these civilians came about near Israeli military vehicles in the midst of the firefight. Doesn't add up.

 

[Lipush]

I remember listening to the radio in the day of the attack. I believe it was called the "Haslamat August", "The escalation of August", and all of us southerners remember this because the fire from both Gaza and Israel was without limits or holding back. I rememebr the attack itself was around noon, or before noon, and in the afternoon the shooting continued and a soldier got killed. I remember reading online, or hearing in the radio, Ehud Barak was saying that "there is no doubt that the thinking, and the "smoked gun" came from Gaza".

I know they never took the reponsibility. But Barak was quick to point it out on them because it was known that the situation in Egypt was something they wished to take advanges of.

Not to mention, that the Israeli intelligence KNEW that something was up, because about 48 or 72 hours earlier, they heard that there is a planned terror attack in the southern district initiated in Gaza. So they put on special security directions, but seeing that nothing happened in the following morning, the understood it was probably nothing.

Then in the morning following that morning, the terror attack happened.

That might explain why the military was quick to point the blaming finger on Gaza. Not to mention it made complete sense. One has to be stupid to give the Egyptian soldier the order to shoot Israeli civilaisn. It could have triggered a war.

 

[Lipush]

Btw, the attack was not a terror attack, but an attack at Israeli military planes and troops.

2011 southern Israel cross-border attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The militants, dressed in brown uniforms resembling those of the Egyptian Army, then began attacking passing vehicles, waving white handkerchiefs to fool motorists.[2] One of the militants attacked a bus that drove by and detonated the suicide bomb belt he was wearing, killing himself and the bus driver, who had stopped the empty bus.[34] Another militant opened fire at a passing car and killed the female driver. The same militant then fired an RPG at an Israeli Air Force helicopter, but missed. An IDF jeep from the Golani Brigade then arrived at the scene and ran over the militant, killing him.[10] Another Golani Brigade jeep arrived, and ran over a roadside bomb. As the soldiers exited the damaged vehicle, the surviving militant opened fire at them. Soldiers and Yamam special police officers then located the militant and killed him in a gunbattle. Two other militants then opened fire at the from Egyptian territory. Israeli forces briefly crossed the border and killed both of the militants. One Israeli soldier was killed by friendly fire during the engagement and several soldiers were wounded.[36][37][38][39] The Egyptian Army informed the IDF that its soldiers killed two more militants in the Sinai.[10]

It mostly injured Israeli troops, I don't see where these civilians came about near Israeli military vehicles in the midst of the firefight. Doesn't add up.

You decide by the result or intention?

The result was that out of the 8 killed, only 1 was a soldier. Out of the dozens of wounded, at least 2 were small children driving in family vehicles. two more were disabled civilians. and 2 elderies.

The intention was maybe to harm csoldiers, because the bus indeed was bus carrying many soldiers, but the result was that besides 1, all harmed were civilians.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

I remember listening to the radio in the day of the attack. I believe it was called the "Haslamat August", "The escalation of August", and all of us southerners remember this because the fire from both Gaza and Israel was without limits or holding back. I rememebr the attack itself was around noon, or before noon, and in the afternoon the shooting continued and a soldier got killed. I remember reading online, or hearing in the radio, Ehud Barak was saying that "there is no doubt that the thinking, and the "smoked gun" came from Gaza".

I know they never took the reponsibility. But Barak was quick to point it out on them because it was known that the situation in Egypt was something they wished to take advanges of.

Not to mention, that the Israeli intelligence KNEW that something was up, because about 48 or 72 hours earlier, they heard that there is a planned terror attack in the southern district initiated in Gaza. So they put on special security directions, but seeing that nothing happened in the following morning, the understood it was probably nothing.

Then in the morning following that morning, the terror attack happened.

That might explain why the military was quick to point the blaming finger on Gaza. Not to mention it made complete sense. One has to be stupid to give the Egyptian soldier the order to shoot Israeli civilaisn. It could have triggered a war.

No one cares what your intelligence or radio says. Shin bet is full of garbage and they accused a very small group in Gaza of planning the attack. Again, Egyptians in military uniforms, they aren't part of the Egyptian military. Your own military spokesman admitted they had no evidence connecting it to Gaza. Even if they had a little bit of evidence that doesn't indicate it came from Gaza. Or orchestrated from Gaza. They had no evidence it was orchestrated by a group in Gaza. Palestinians will admit it if they attacked. The PRC had nothing to do with it and they didn't even respond because they didn't want an escalation. A tiny group in Gaza responded by firing 9 rockets. No it doesn't make complete sense, it was murder of Palestinians. And no it couldn't have triggered a war.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Btw, the attack was not a terror attack, but an attack at Israeli military planes and troops.

2011 southern Israel cross-border attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The militants, dressed in brown uniforms resembling those of the Egyptian Army, then began attacking passing vehicles, waving white handkerchiefs to fool motorists.[2] One of the militants attacked a bus that drove by and detonated the suicide bomb belt he was wearing, killing himself and the bus driver, who had stopped the empty bus.[34] Another militant opened fire at a passing car and killed the female driver. The same militant then fired an RPG at an Israeli Air Force helicopter, but missed. An IDF jeep from the Golani Brigade then arrived at the scene and ran over the militant, killing him.[10] Another Golani Brigade jeep arrived, and ran over a roadside bomb. As the soldiers exited the damaged vehicle, the surviving militant opened fire at them. Soldiers and Yamam special police officers then located the militant and killed him in a gunbattle. Two other militants then opened fire at the from Egyptian territory. Israeli forces briefly crossed the border and killed both of the militants. One Israeli soldier was killed by friendly fire during the engagement and several soldiers were wounded.[36][37][38][39] The Egyptian Army informed the IDF that its soldiers killed two more militants in the Sinai.[10]

It mostly injured Israeli troops, I don't see where these civilians came about near Israeli military vehicles in the midst of the firefight. Doesn't add up.

You decide by the result or intention?

The result was that out of the 8 killed, only 1 was a soldier. Out of the dozens of wounded, at least 2 were small children driving in family vehicles. two more were disabled civilians. and 2 elderies.

The intention was maybe to harm csoldiers, because the bus indeed was bus carrying many soldiers, but the result was that besides 1, all harmed were civilians.

Well it was a mistake if they accidentally hit civilians. I don't get what civilians are doing right at the border, if those were Palestinians in Gaza near the Israeli border they would have been shot dead. Besides the point, that doesn't mean the attack was justified. I can't remember what the group in Sinai claimed it what it was a response to. That being said, it caught me that Israel would randomly go into Gaza and kill 15 Palestinians before the Egyptian investigation was completed. Later the investigation found they were all Egyptians that Egypt identified. So the attack wasn't justified.

 

[Lipush]

Btw, the attack was not a terror attack, but an attack at Israeli military planes and troops.

2011 southern Israel cross-border attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The militants, dressed in brown uniforms resembling those of the Egyptian Army, then began attacking passing vehicles, waving white handkerchiefs to fool motorists.[2] One of the militants attacked a bus that drove by and detonated the suicide bomb belt he was wearing, killing himself and the bus driver, who had stopped the empty bus.[34] Another militant opened fire at a passing car and killed the female driver. The same militant then fired an RPG at an Israeli Air Force helicopter, but missed. An IDF jeep from the Golani Brigade then arrived at the scene and ran over the militant, killing him.[10] Another Golani Brigade jeep arrived, and ran over a roadside bomb. As the soldiers exited the damaged vehicle, the surviving militant opened fire at them. Soldiers and Yamam special police officers then located the militant and killed him in a gunbattle. Two other militants then opened fire at the from Egyptian territory. Israeli forces briefly crossed the border and killed both of the militants. One Israeli soldier was killed by friendly fire during the engagement and several soldiers were wounded.[36][37][38][39] The Egyptian Army informed the IDF that its soldiers killed two more militants in the Sinai.[10]

It mostly injured Israeli troops, I don't see where these civilians came about near Israeli military vehicles in the midst of the firefight. Doesn't add up.

You decide by the result or intention?

The result was that out of the 8 killed, only 1 was a soldier. Out of the dozens of wounded, at least 2 were small children driving in family vehicles. two more were disabled civilians. and 2 elderies.

The intention was maybe to harm csoldiers, because the bus indeed was bus carrying many soldiers, but the result was that besides 1, all harmed were civilians.

Well it was a mistake if they accidentally hit civilians.

Does the Palestinian mother care if her child was "mistakenly" killed by IDF? I'm sure not.

The Israeli mother, daughter, or sister, doesn't care either.

Non of this will bring them back, now, would it?

 

[BecauseIKnow]

You decide by the result or intention?

The result was that out of the 8 killed, only 1 was a soldier. Out of the dozens of wounded, at least 2 were small children driving in family vehicles. two more were disabled civilians. and 2 elderies.

The intention was maybe to harm csoldiers, because the bus indeed was bus carrying many soldiers, but the result was that besides 1, all harmed were civilians.

Well it was a mistake if they accidentally hit civilians.

Does the Palestinian mother care if her child was "mistakenly" killed by IDF? I'm sure not.

The Israeli mother, daughter, or sister, doesn't care either.

Non of this will bring them back, now, would it?

Neat way to ignore everything I said.

 

[Lipush]

Btw, the attack was not a terror attack, but an attack at Israeli military planes and troops.

2011 southern Israel cross-border attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The militants, dressed in brown uniforms resembling those of the Egyptian Army, then began attacking passing vehicles, waving white handkerchiefs to fool motorists.[2] One of the militants attacked a bus that drove by and detonated the suicide bomb belt he was wearing, killing himself and the bus driver, who had stopped the empty bus.[34] Another militant opened fire at a passing car and killed the female driver. The same militant then fired an RPG at an Israeli Air Force helicopter, but missed. An IDF jeep from the Golani Brigade then arrived at the scene and ran over the militant, killing him.[10] Another Golani Brigade jeep arrived, and ran over a roadside bomb. As the soldiers exited the damaged vehicle, the surviving militant opened fire at them. Soldiers and Yamam special police officers then located the militant and killed him in a gunbattle. Two other militants then opened fire at the from Egyptian territory. Israeli forces briefly crossed the border and killed both of the militants. One Israeli soldier was killed by friendly fire during the engagement and several soldiers were wounded.[36][37][38][39] The Egyptian Army informed the IDF that its soldiers killed two more militants in the Sinai.[10]

It mostly injured Israeli troops, I don't see where these civilians came about near Israeli military vehicles in the midst of the firefight. Doesn't add up.

You decide by the result or intention?

The result was that out of the 8 killed, only 1 was a soldier. Out of the dozens of wounded, at least 2 were small children driving in family vehicles. two more were disabled civilians. and 2 elderies.

The intention was maybe to harm csoldiers, because the bus indeed was bus carrying many soldiers, but the result was that besides 1, all harmed were civilians.

Well it was a mistake if they accidentally hit civilians. I don't get what civilians are doing right at the border, if those were Palestinians in Gaza near the Israeli border they would have been shot dead. Besides the point, that doesn't mean the attack was justified. I can't remember what the group in Sinai claimed it what it was a response to. That being said, it caught me that Israel would randomly go into Gaza and kill 15 Palestinians before the Egyptian investigation was completed. Later the investigation found they were all Egyptians that Egypt identified. So the attack wasn't justified.

C'mon, now, don't be stu-peeeeeed It is hardly the same thing. Egpyt is not still recognized as "enemy" state by Israel, not in the kind of way that our people have to feel FEAR by their soldiers.

And anyway, they were not near the border. That is why in our country it is called "The ROAD 12 attack, because it was on road 12. Road 12 is inside Israeli territory, from which the Egyptian side is visible and close. But it is hardly the border itself.

Road 12 was used as a "short way" to reach Eilat, since the Mitzpe-Ramon roadway is too long and has high risk because of the roads and hills, and at the time of traffic can be very dangerous. wanting to prevent all of this, civilians used road 12.

 

[Lipush]

Well it was a mistake if they accidentally hit civilians.

Does the Palestinian mother care if her child was "mistakenly" killed by IDF? I'm sure not.

The Israeli mother, daughter, or sister, doesn't care either.

Non of this will bring them back, now, would it?

Neat way to ignore everything I said.

I don't ignore, I respond one statement at a time.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Does the Palestinian mother care if her child was "mistakenly" killed by IDF? I'm sure not.

The Israeli mother, daughter, or sister, doesn't care either.

Non of this will bring them back, now, would it?

Neat way to ignore everything I said.

I don't ignore, I respond one statement at a time.

My specific point was the joint israeli and Egyptian investigation found that no one from Gaza was involved or was it orchestrated from Gaza. So yet again, the Israeli military lied to attack Gaza.

 

[Lipush]

Btw, the attack was not a terror attack, but an attack at Israeli military planes and troops.

2011 southern Israel cross-border attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The militants, dressed in brown uniforms resembling those of the Egyptian Army, then began attacking passing vehicles, waving white handkerchiefs to fool motorists.[2] One of the militants attacked a bus that drove by and detonated the suicide bomb belt he was wearing, killing himself and the bus driver, who had stopped the empty bus.[34] Another militant opened fire at a passing car and killed the female driver. The same militant then fired an RPG at an Israeli Air Force helicopter, but missed. An IDF jeep from the Golani Brigade then arrived at the scene and ran over the militant, killing him.[10] Another Golani Brigade jeep arrived, and ran over a roadside bomb. As the soldiers exited the damaged vehicle, the surviving militant opened fire at them. Soldiers and Yamam special police officers then located the militant and killed him in a gunbattle. Two other militants then opened fire at the from Egyptian territory. Israeli forces briefly crossed the border and killed both of the militants. One Israeli soldier was killed by friendly fire during the engagement and several soldiers were wounded.[36][37][38][39] The Egyptian Army informed the IDF that its soldiers killed two more militants in the Sinai.[10]

It mostly injured Israeli troops, I don't see where these civilians came about near Israeli military vehicles in the midst of the firefight. Doesn't add up.

You decide by the result or intention?

The result was that out of the 8 killed, only 1 was a soldier. Out of the dozens of wounded, at least 2 were small children driving in family vehicles. two more were disabled civilians. and 2 elderies.

The intention was maybe to harm csoldiers, because the bus indeed was bus carrying many soldiers, but the result was that besides 1, all harmed were civilians.

Well it was a mistake if they accidentally hit civilians. I don't get what civilians are doing right at the border, if those were Palestinians in Gaza near the Israeli border they would have been shot dead. Besides the point, that doesn't mean the attack was justified. I can't remember what the group in Sinai claimed it what it was a response to. That being said, it caught me that Israel would randomly go into Gaza and kill 15 Palestinians before the Egyptian investigation was completed. Later the investigation found they were all Egyptians that Egypt identified. So the attack wasn't justified.

We knew right there that Egyptians were involved. That was due to eye witness, mother of two children, who says that on the way to Eilat on road 12 she saw the tower of Egyptian guards from afar, and wanted to show her children where the tower is, when the shooting started. Inside the car, she tried to protect them with her body while calling for her husband to drive faster. those two children were injured, thankfully not bad. Their was the first one to state without a doubt that some of the terrorists were Egyptians.

The IDF made their own conclusion. They knew of the Egyptian involvement but not from there. They made their investigations on their own. I don't know which was it because I long ago finished me serving.

 

[Lipush]

Neat way to ignore everything I said.

I don't ignore, I respond one statement at a time.

My specific point was the joint israeli and Egyptian investigation found that no one from Gaza was involved or was it orchestrated from Gaza. So yet again, the Israeli military lied to attack Gaza.

This is just not how it works.

You say it like the IDF decide to attack Gaza almost out of BORDOM. That is not the case. Every attack is highly calculated, the result willed, Vs. the risk.

When the IDF decides to attack Gaza, the immediately put more than million unarmed civilians under a high risk. thousands are unprotected in south Israel.

They think hardly of it every time they decide of any attack. That is something that as a Palestinian, you don't see, and I don't blame you, because from where you stand you see the IDF attacks and nothing more. But think a bit "wider" and you'll see that reality is much to complicated for that to be narrowed down to "attacking unprovoked".

If they believed Gaza was a part of this, they had a reason. the risk is to high to play "guessing".

 

[sealadaigh]

The specific conditions being negotiated are secret, but the negotiations aren't secret anymore. And that just also goes to the pro israel sympathizers when they say Israel doesn't talk to 'terrorists', yeah I'm sure about that.

i think the shrewdest move HAMAS could make during these negotiations is to insist marwan barghouti be freed and allowed on their negotiating team.

i do not like at all this "negotiate with one faction, ignore the other" deal.

the firmest strenggth is in unity.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

I don't ignore, I respond one statement at a time.

My specific point was the joint israeli and Egyptian investigation found that no one from Gaza was involved or was it orchestrated from Gaza. So yet again, the Israeli military lied to attack Gaza.

This is just not how it works.

You say it like the IDF decide to attack Gaza almost out of BORDOM. That is not the case. Every attack is highly calculated, the result willed, Vs. the risk.

When the IDF decides to attack Gaza, the immediately put more than million unarmed civilians under a high risk. thousands are unprotected in south Israel.

They think hardly of it every time they decide of any attack. That is something that as a Palestinian, you don't see, and I don't blame you, because from where you stand you see the IDF attacks and nothing more. But think a bit "wider" and you'll see that reality is much to complicated for that to be narrowed down to "attacking unprovoked".

If they believed Gaza was a part of this, they had a reason. the risk is to high to play "guessing".

That's your only excuse? Seriously? So the IDF can launch an massive attack on Gaza and kill Palestinians whenever they want to just because they believed it was orchestrated from Gaza. Without providing any evidence, just estimation, if they turned out to be wrong(which they were after the investigation revealed the facts) then who cares. 15 dead Palestinians. That reflects the character of Israel and the behavior of Israel. No one believes that Israel just wants security and peace. Their aims extend beyond that. They are brutal towards the Palestinians and have had them in shock for decades. That's the truth Lipush.

 

[Hossfly]

The specific conditions being negotiated are secret, but the negotiations aren't secret anymore. And that just also goes to the pro israel sympathizers when they say Israel doesn't talk to 'terrorists', yeah I'm sure about that.

i think the shrewdest move HAMAS could make during these negotiations is to insist marwan barghouti be freed and allowed on their negotiating team.

i do not like at all this "negotiate with one faction, ignore the other" deal.

the firmest strenggth is in unity.

Barghouti is serving five consecutive life sentences and an additional 40 years for terrorist activity. He was arrested on April 15, 2002.

So much for this animals release.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

The specific conditions being negotiated are secret, but the negotiations aren't secret anymore. And that just also goes to the pro israel sympathizers when they say Israel doesn't talk to 'terrorists', yeah I'm sure about that.

i think the shrewdest move HAMAS could make during these negotiations is to insist marwan barghouti be freed and allowed on their negotiating team.

i do not like at all this "negotiate with one faction, ignore the other" deal.

the firmest strenggth is in unity.

Hamas would love unity but Fatah doesn't want it. There are things you don't know about Fatah, Seal. They let israelis forces in the West Bank to arrest Hamas MP's while they are having unity talks in Egypt. Fatah is either going to die out or their military wing will rise up again in the West Bank and that's when unity will succeed.

 

[jillian]

Report: Israel, Hamas Holding Secret Talks - Defense/Security - News - Israel National News

Israel has been holding secret negotiations with the Hamas movement since the end of its Operation Pillar of Defense, Channel 2 News reported on Friday.

According to the report, the Egyptian-mediated talks are being held as part of the ceasefire reached between the sides at the end of operation in November and which said that both sides will refrain from attacking one another and the sides will work to reach understandings.

Channel 2 News indicated that an Israeli delegation that arrived in Cairo on Thursday came to Egypt for the purpose of holding talks with Hamas, through Egyptian mediators.

Until now, the negotiations have been conducted under a veil of secrecy, said the report, which added that according to the understandings reached between the sides, Israel will agree that the Rafiah border crossing between Gaza and Egypt be opened for the passage of commercial goods and construction materials.


................

golda meier once said "who are we going to talk peace with? our friends?"

she was right then... as she was about pretty much everything.

 

[Lipush]

They recieved warning that the people of Gaza were planning to bomb and shoot Israelis from Sinai. Israeli intelligence is the best in the MidEast.

48 hours later 7 terrorists attack Israeli civilians.

Guessing??? You do the math!