Republican tax cut will not trickle down

[The Derp]

I'll leave it to a retard like you to scramble for proof they're worse off.

By the way, that chart of yours shows wild instability and volatility in Ireland. How come there were so many drastic drops and spikes in the GDP-per-Capita? What gives? Does it have anything to do with an economy that contracts at least once a year over the last four, and 33% of the time over the last 10? Why yes, it does. If I'm a business, I see that volatility and don't set up any expansion in Ireland. Why? Because it's a crapshoot that Irish consumers will spend as the economy contracts at least one quarter every year. That's not good for business. Nor does that have anything to do with HQ's moving to Ireland because those HQ's aren't serving the Irish market. They're serving global markets. So you could have a company that moves its HQ to Ireland while not expanding into Ireland's consumer market. Which, lookie there, is exactly what happens.

Now that's separate from moving corporate headquarters that serve other markets to Ireland. I think even you recognize that distinction but because you're a sophist, will pretend that the "competition" is within the Irish economy, and not just a competition over who can give the best margins. Profit margins have nothing to do with a business expanding or growing into other markets because only profit is taxed.

 

[danielpalos]

Lower taxes all you want, right wingers; as long as the minimum wage beats the cost of social services and outpaces inflation.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The economic state where their GDP is much, much larger than it was 20 years ago. I agree.

It's not 1997, it's 2017. Try and join us in this century. We now have 20 years of policy to examine and the culmination of that policy is shit. The only thing you're hanging your hot on is the rather vague and ambiguous GDP-per-capita while still refusing to provide the data showing if that rise in GDP per capita was among all groups, or really just the top. Obviously, it was just the top...otherwise you would have posted that data. You're pretty transparent in your sophistry. .And you never account for the fact that Ireland's economy is volatile, experiencing at least one quarter of economic contraction a year.

Yup. And the EU is still whining about the unfair competition..

No whining in that article. And so what? Doesn't make a difference if it's easy for businesses...the volatile state of Ireland's economy outweighs that. Also, Ireland's unemployment is higher, and its low tax rate caused its current mortgage crisis, which I'll get to in a second...

The financial crisis hit Ireland hard.

Really? Cause most everyone else seems to have recovered from it except Ireland. Why? Well, the answer is pretty obvious; Ireland's trafficking in those same garbage subprimes as they did here. Because of the "low tax rate". Funny how whenever Conservatives cut taxes, it almost always inevitably results in a bubble of some kind.

Irish sub-prime mortgage arrears are going through the roof
NOTE THE DATE: March 17th, 2015
19,935 mortgage loans issued by such lenders were in arrears of more than 90 days as at end December 2014, an increase of almost 2,000 since end September.​

So Ireland "attracts" businesses with its low tax rate, then those businesses then inflate a subprime mortgage market after the collapse. This is the economy you want us to have. Why is it that whenever you post something, it always ends up being a half-truth or outright lie?

If it will help you rinse the sand out of your vagina, find data that backs up your ignorant whining.
Post it and I'll be glad to point out your confusion.

It's YOUR DATA. You submitted it. Time for you to put on your big boy pants and put in the effort required for you to know what you're saying and supporting your "sources". Unless you're going to admit to me that you didn't bother to vet the data you were vomiting up here, either because you're too lazy or too corrupt.It's YOUR DATA. You submitted it. You're representing it as beneficial to the Irish but you clam up when pressed for detail because you either don't know, or you do know and are deliberately holding the info back because it ruins your argument and proves my point that the gains from Ireland's tax cut went almost entirely to the top. And that's what skews their GDP-per-Capita. You got the data, it's on you to know it. Pleading ignorance and laziness isn't acceptable.

It's not 1997, it's 2017.

No kidding. Their GDP is much larger than in 1997.

Go tax cuts!!!

while still refusing to provide the data showing if that rise in GDP per capita was among all groups, or really just the top.

DURR!

Also, Ireland's unemployment is higher, and its low tax rate caused its current mortgage crisis, which I'll get to in a second...

High tax rates prevented a mortgage crisis in which countries?

Cause most everyone else seems to have recovered from it except Ireland. Why?

Small country. Heavily dependent on exports. Big bank failures.

It's YOUR DATA. You submitted it.

Sure did.
Look at that fucking AWESOME GDP growth. Incredible!!!

You're representing it as beneficial to the Irish

You bet your whiney ass!

 

[Brain357]

You actually think something is going to get passed? Seems you get the stupid award if you believe in these clowns.

NEWSFLASH: Something has already been passed. Both in the House and Senate. It's now in reconciliation (a formality). Look for the final bill to be signed before Dec. 31.

You have high hopes. I'll believe it when i see it. I'll be even more surprised if the debt does not increase dramatically.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I'll leave it to a retard like you to scramble for proof they're worse off.

So that's total GDP-per-Capita.

What's the GDP-per-capita growth by percentile? That's how we can tell if the growth in GDP per capita was spread among all income groups, or just among the top as I suspect.

OH RIGHT you don't have that information because in your sloppy and lazy attempt to debate, you didn't bother to ask the questions required to get a better grasp of what you're saying.
;
So we have a nice little one-act play:

Act One
Setting: USMB

You (screeching): Look at the high GDP-per-Capita
Me: So what's the GDP per capita by percentile?
You (screeching): I DON'T KNOW, YOU DO THE WORK I SHOULD HAVE DONE BEFORE MAKING AN ARGUMENT THAT WASN'T FUNDAMENTALLY SOUND!
Me: ::face palm::

So you can't argue that Ireland's tax rate boosted GDP per capita for working class Irish because you lack the data (or will to post the data) because you very lazily and sloppily rushed through your response. So you're making a false point knowingly all to preserve the pile of shit you call your ego.

So that's total GDP-per-Capita.

Yes.

What's the GDP-per-capita growth by percentile?

I don't know. Why don't you tell me?

That's how we can tell if the growth in GDP per capita was spread among all income groups, or just among the top as I suspect.

Sounds like you have some work to do.

OH RIGHT you don't have that information because...

That's work for you and your sandy vag.

So you can't argue that Ireland's tax rate boosted GDP per capita for working class Irish

Well, you could look at the wage data I posted.......moron.

So you're making a false point knowingly

Ireland, lagging Europe since.....forever.
Cuts corporate tax rates in 1995, GDP soars!!!!

Some sandy twat thinks that's a false point. LOL!

 

[The Derp]

No kidding. Their GDP is much larger than in 1997.

Which is the case for every other country in your chart, including ours. So what happened within the individual percentiles in Ireland with respect to GDP-per-Capita? Did the working class get to share in those gains? Did all income percentiles rise, or just those at the top? Oh right, you don't have that info because you were too sloppy and rushed in your response. If I were you, I'd be scouring the web to find that information because if it shows that all income groups saw an equal rise in their GDP-per-capita, then you can argue that the tax cuts caused that. Only you don't have that info and refuse to provide it for obvious reasons.

DURR!

Yes, that's your response when asked to go into detail in the numbers you submitted into this debate. So I guess this just means you were talking out of your ass, and hoping no one asked the tough question regarding the minimal amount of data you've provided. Basically, we can't expect you to have any confidence in what you're saying. And if we don't have that, what do we have? You trolling. That's it. You're just not that confident in what you're presenting here, which is why you didn't do the minimal amount of work required to know what you were posting. So you were just posting things for no reason than to post them. Which is trolling.

High tax rates prevented a mortgage crisis in which countries?

Canada and Israel for starters...two nations with high tax rates who weren't victimized by your subprime mortgage bubble you inflated to make the economy look like it was growing because of tax cuts, when it was really growing because of debt.

Small country. Heavily dependent on exports. Big bank failures.

Big bank failures? What were those banks doing there? Oh right, trying to exploit Ireland's low tax rate. So thanks for proving that the big bank failures were tied to Ireland's tax rate. And plenty of other small countries, even those on your chart seemed to recover better than Ireland. So now you've gone from saying Ireland's economy is the best because of tax cuts, to Ireland's economy struggles because it didn't handle itself well during the Financial Collapse that was almost 10 years ago. So in the same thread, you went from signing Ireland's past praises to excusing its current troubles. What a fraud.

Ireland's problem isn't the financial collapse you caused, it's problem is wild and volatile instability that discourages businesses from expanding in Ireland's economy, instead of using it as a quick stop to lower tax liability. So thanks for proving that tax cuts don't do shit for the economy.

Look at that fucking AWESOME GDP growth. Incredible!!!

Was that GDP growth shared by all income groups? Oh, you don't know that because you can't be expected to know the things you post. I'm curious what the pathology you have is that causes you to do that. Is it an ego thing? Is it an insecurity thing? is it because life didn't turn out the way you wanted or hoped so you have to take that out on others by lying on message boards? What do you stand to gain from arguing these conflicting positions you have?

You bet your whiney ass!

Ah, but you can't provide data that actually shows that. All you do is fall back on one general number, absent of detail. And that's because you have a poor work ethic and are sloppy. You say it was beneficial to the Irish, yet you can't explain how. You just point to the total GDPO-per-capita absent of any context, and you do that because you're a liar and a fraud.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I'll leave it to a retard like you to scramble for proof they're worse off.

By the way, that chart of yours shows wild instability and volatility in Ireland. How come there were so many drastic drops and spikes in the GDP-per-Capita? What gives? Does it have anything to do with an economy that contracts at least once a year over the last four, and 33% of the time over the last 10? Why yes, it does. If I'm a business, I see that volatility and don't set up any expansion in Ireland. Why? Because it's a crapshoot that Irish consumers will spend as the economy contracts at least one quarter every year. That's not good for business. Nor does that have anything to do with HQ's moving to Ireland because those HQ's aren't serving the Irish market. They're serving global markets. So you could have a company that moves its HQ to Ireland while not expanding into Ireland's consumer market. Which, lookie there, is exactly what happens.

Now that's separate from moving corporate headquarters that serve other markets to Ireland. I think even you recognize that distinction but because you're a sophist, will pretend that the "competition" is within the Irish economy, and not just a competition over who can give the best margins. Profit margins have nothing to do with a business expanding or growing into other markets because only profit is taxed.

By the way, that chart of yours shows wild instability and volatility in Ireland.

How awful!!!

Does it have anything to do with an economy that contracts at least once a year over the last four,

Is that the economy that now has a higher GDP per capita than the US?
Higher than Germany? That one? LOL!

If I'm a business, I see that volatility and don't set up any expansion in Ireland.

You wouldn't set up expansion of your export business? Why not?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

No kidding. Their GDP is much larger than in 1997.

Which is the case for every other country in your chart, including ours. So what happened within the individual percentiles in Ireland with respect to GDP-per-Capita? Did the working class get to share in those gains? Did all income percentiles rise, or just those at the top? Oh right, you don't have that info because you were too sloppy and rushed in your response. If I were you, I'd be scouring the web to find that information because if it shows that all income groups saw an equal rise in their GDP-per-capita, then you can argue that the tax cuts caused that. Only you don't have that info and refuse to provide it for obvious reasons.

DURR!

Yes, that's your response when asked to go into detail in the numbers you submitted into this debate. So I guess this just means you were talking out of your ass, and hoping no one asked the tough question regarding the minimal amount of data you've provided. Basically, we can't expect you to have any confidence in what you're saying. And if we don't have that, what do we have? You trolling. That's it. You're just not that confident in what you're presenting here, which is why you didn't do the minimal amount of work required to know what you were posting. So you were just posting things for no reason than to post them. Which is trolling.

High tax rates prevented a mortgage crisis in which countries?

Canada and Israel for starters...two nations with high tax rates who weren't victimized by your subprime mortgage bubble you inflated to make the economy look like it was growing because of tax cuts, when it was really growing because of debt.

Small country. Heavily dependent on exports. Big bank failures.

Big bank failures? What were those banks doing there? Oh right, trying to exploit Ireland's low tax rate. So thanks for proving that the big bank failures were tied to Ireland's tax rate. And plenty of other small countries, even those on your chart seemed to recover better than Ireland. So now you've gone from saying Ireland's economy is the best because of tax cuts, to Ireland's economy struggles because it didn't handle itself well during the Financial Collapse that was almost 10 years ago. So in the same thread, you went from signing Ireland's past praises to excusing its current troubles. What a fraud.

Ireland's problem isn't the financial collapse you caused, it's problem is wild and volatile instability that discourages businesses from expanding in Ireland's economy, instead of using it as a quick stop to lower tax liability. So thanks for proving that tax cuts don't do shit for the economy.

Look at that fucking AWESOME GDP growth. Incredible!!!/QUOTE]

Was that GDP growth shared by all income groups? Oh, you don't know that because you can't be expected to know the things you post. I'm curious what the pathology you have is that causes you to do that. Is it an ego thing? Is it an insecurity thing? is it because life didn't turn out the way you wanted or hoped so you have to take that out on others by lying on message boards? What do you stand to gain from arguing these conflicting positions you have?

You bet your whiney ass!

Ah, but you can't provide data that actually shows that. All you do is fall back on one general number, absent of detail. And that's because you have a poor work ethic and are sloppy. You say it was beneficial to the Irish, yet you can't explain how. You just point to the total GDPO-per-capita absent of any context, and you do that because you're a liar and a fraud.

Which is the case for every other country in your chart, including ours.

But their GDP per capita grew 65% faster than ours!!! Moron.

Yes, that's your response when asked to go into detail in the numbers you submitted into this debate.

My response is do your own work, whiney twat.

Canada and Israel for starters..

Wow! Short list.....

Big bank failures? What were those banks doing there? Oh right, trying to exploit Ireland's low tax rate.

Well, the Anglo_Irish bank was an Irish bank....founded in 1964.
Irish Nationwide Building Society, founded in 1873.
Bank of Ireland, founded in 1783....

Darn foreign exploiters, eh?

So now you've gone from saying Ireland's economy is the best because of tax cuts

Never said they were the best. Compared to the old days though, it's FUCKIN' AWESOME!!!

Was that GDP growth shared by all income groups?

Whiney twat says what?

 

[The Derp]

I don't know. Why don't you tell me?!

Why don't you know? You're the one who made the choice to use these numbers as the pillar of your argument, and you/re now telling me you don't know these numbers?

So you're making a deliberately false argument.

That's it. It's your point, dude. You're the one who made it. Now you cannot even back it up, and you think you're entitled to me doing your work for you? You moocher.

Sounds like you have some work to do.!

Actually, the job is yours because you submitted this line of reasoning to the debate, you entered these numbers -numbers you now admit you aren't confident in. If you couldn't produce these numbers in an ACTUAL DEBATE, you'd lose the debate. It's incumbent on you to know the information you're posting. Not me. So get off your fat, lazy ass and do some work for once. Sooner or later, Conservatives are going to have to take personal responsibility for the shit positions and arguments they make.

That's work for you and your sandy vag.

No, it's on you because you're the one who holds up that GDP-per-Capita number as representative of beneficial to the Irish, so that means knowing the numbers you post and how those numbers work in each income group. Otherwise, you have to change your statement to: "They're beneficial to the top 1%".

You submit something into the debate, then run away from it because you're scared it's going to make you look foolish.

Well, newsflash; you're already foolish.

Well, you could look at the wage data I posted.......moron.

Wage data!? You mean the data that cuts off after 2005? LOL! I posted two links showing Ireland's wage growth since 2011 has been below the rest of the Eurozone, as a result of the shit policies you support. This is an example of someone (me) putting in the effort. Take notes.

 When compared to other EU-15 countries, Irish compensation falls 14 percent below average.
 When compared to other EU not in bail-out (excluding Greece and Portugal), Ireland falls 21 percent below average.
 When compared with economies with a similar structure as our own (small and open, heavily reliant on exports), Ireland falls 30 percent below average.
 Irish compensation in the main low-paid sectors (retail, hotels and restaurants) fall even further behind other EU-15 averages and is a major contributor to high levels of in-work deprivation.
 Since 2011, Irish compensation has increased at the lowest rate in the EU-15 – bar Spain (and Greece and Portugal which are engulfed in a massive wage recession).
 Irish productivity is well above the average of other EU-15 countries, even when adjusting for multi-national accounting practices.
 Irish Labour costs make up a smaller portion of operating costs than other EU-15 countries.
 After taking a hit at the beginning of the crisis, Irish profits are growing at a faster rate than profits in the Eurozone.

Ireland, lagging Europe since.....forever.
Cuts corporate tax rates in 1995, GDP soars!!!!

Ah, but it doesn't does it? In fact, Ireland's economy became more volatile, with its unemployment higher, and experiencing economic contraction at least one quarter a year. Why do you want the US economy to contract a quarter each year and shed jobs? Oh right, because you hate America.

 

[Thinker101]

Explain that to the people in cities like Detroit.

Oh, you mean the city under Conservative control since 2012? It's been five years, what the fuck have you clueless idiots done to improve detroit? Nothing. You deliberately keep it shitty just so you can use it as a talking point.

And by the way, Republicans in the Michigan State Legislature cut welfare spending to put towards reducing the astronomical deficit they caused.

Yeah, you must be talking about a different Detroit.
Detroit, MI (1st on the poverty rate list) hasn’t elected a Republican mayor since 1961;
Democrats Run America's Ten Poorest Cities - Eagle Rising

Hey you stupid asshole, do some reading on the Emergency Managers. Also, MI's lagislature has been Conservative since 2011.

Did you know that? No. Because you know nothing, Jon Snow.

Well, Dumbass, emergency managers typically move in when a city or school district have run out of money.
7 things to know about Michigan's emergency manager law

Which happened in 2012 in Detroit. So you guys had been running Detroit since 2012. You guys had been running the state of Michigan since 2011. And in the 6-7 years since have done nothing to improve anything.

You fricken democrats sucked the money out of Detroit, killed the money tree, and your wondering why things haven't improved.

 

[The Derp]

How awful!!!

It is awful because it discourages businesses from expanding in that market. Who would expand in an economy that contracts 33% of the time? No wonder Ireland's unemployment rate is so high and one in eight Irish workers skips a meal because they're too poor.

Also, Irish incomes, since 2011, rose at rates lower than that of the EU nations. Almost all of them. Ireland is in the same group as Spain and Greece when it comes to wages. So that means the GDP-per-capita didn't increase for all workers as a result of the tax cut because we have data showing wage growth below most all the EU norms.

So now that we know that pay for most Irish workers didn't rise, we can surmise that the tax cuts caused more harm than good.

Is that the economy that now has a higher GDP per capita than the US?

All it means is that Ireland concentrated all its wealth at the top, which is why its current economy sucks and has sucked for ten years at least.

You wouldn't set up expansion of your export business? Why not?

Not in the Irish market. Too volatile. Too unstable. No wage growth. High unemployment. A subprime bubble.

In other words, Conservative economics.

 

[The Derp]

But their GDP per capita grew 65% faster than ours!!! Moron.

So what? All those gains went to the top, not to the workers, and Ireland's economy has become one of the most unstable in the world, contracting 33% of the time. Not to mention an unemployment rate higher than ours, higher than the UK. But keep touting that obvious sophist bullshit, please. It's really entertaining.

My response is do your own work, whiney twat.

No, it's your work because it's your argument. So if you don't know your argument inside and out, don't fucking make it. So when the GDP-per-Capita rises and wages don't, what does that mean? It means wealth is concentrated at the top. Which is what you want here because you mistakenly think it'll "trickle down".

Wow! Short list.....

You asked for nations, got them, and now you whine because your shitty little argument was stopped cold. Make better arguments, if you can. I doubt you have the effort and skill. I mean, you're so fucking lazy, you won't even bother reviewing the data you posted here...taking the spoiled, entitled position of me doing the work you should have already done before posting.

So why didn't you do that work?

Well, the Anglo_Irish bank was an Irish bank....founded in 1964.
Irish Nationwide Building Society, founded in 1873.
Bank of Ireland, founded in 1783....

Great so none of this has anything to do with what we're talking about. Fine. What about all those Wall Street banks that set up shell companies in Ireland that was used to pass their global profits off the housing markets? Those don't count? They set up shop in Ireland specifically for the purpose of not having to pay as much in taxes on the profits from the selling of those securities and derivatives globally. In fact, one could argue that Ireland's low tax rate stimulated those practices by incentivizing those banks to crank out and sell as many products as they could before the bubble popped, while they enjoyed a low profit tax. And in all this, not one single job was created. Ireland's economy became unstable, and it now contracts 33% of the time.

Wow. So way to go there. You just implicated Ireland's low tax rate into the global financial crisis of 2008.

Never said they were the best. Compared to the old days though, it's FUCKIN' AWESOME!!!

Compared to the old days? How about compared to economies today? Oh, when you do that suddenly the picture becomes less rosy. Ireland's current state is the culmination of 20 years of policy. And the results are shit.

Was that GDP growth shared by all income groups?
Whiney twat says what?

Well, news for you is that I already did post data about wage growth for Ireland. Data that goes back to cover the present to 2011. And that data shows that Ireland's wages rose slower than the Eurozone's and on pace with Greece and Spain.

Since 2011:

 When compared to other EU-15 countries, Irish compensation falls 14 percent below average.
 When compared to other EU not in bail-out (excluding Greece and Portugal), Ireland falls 21 percent below average.
 When compared with economies with a similar structure as our own (small and open, heavily reliant on exports), Ireland falls 30 percent below average.
 Irish compensation in the main low-paid sectors (retail, hotels and restaurants) fall even further behind other EU-15 averages and is a major contributor to high levels of in-work deprivation.
 Since 2011, Irish compensation has increased at the lowest rate in the EU-15 – bar Spain (and Greece and Portugal which are engulfed in a massive wage recession).
 Irish productivity is well above the average of other EU-15 countries, even when adjusting for multi-national accounting practices.
 Irish Labour costs make up a smaller portion of operating costs than other EU-15 countries.
 After taking a hit at the beginning of the crisis, Irish profits are growing at a faster rate than profits in the Eurozone.

 

[The Derp]

You fricken democrats sucked the money out of Detroit, killed the money tree, and your wondering why things haven't improved.

No, no. You've had 7 years now to improve Detroit and you haven't done a thing. So now Detroit is on you.

 

[The Derp]

But their GDP per capita grew 65% faster than ours!!! Moron.

So what? All those gains went to the top, not to the workers, and Ireland's economy has become one of the most unstable in the world, contracting 33% of the time. Not to mention an unemployment rate higher than ours, higher than the UK. But keep touting that obvious sophist bullshit, please. It's really entertaining.

My response is do your own work, whiney twat.

No, it's your work because it's your argument. So if you don't know your argument inside and out, don't fucking make it. So when the GDP-per-Capita rises and wages don't, what does that mean? It means wealth is concentrated at the top. Which is what you want here because you mistakenly think it'll "trickle down".

Wow! Short list.....

You asked for nations, got them, and now you whine because your shitty little argument was stopped cold. Make better arguments, if you can. I doubt you have the effort and skill. I mean, you're so fucking lazy, you won't even bother reviewing the data you posted here...taking the spoiled, entitled position of me doing the work you should have already done before posting.

So why didn't you do that work?

Well, the Anglo_Irish bank was an Irish bank....founded in 1964.
Irish Nationwide Building Society, founded in 1873.
Bank of Ireland, founded in 1783....

Great so none of this has anything to do with what we're talking about. Fine. What about all those Wall Street banks that set up shell companies in Ireland that was used to pass their global profits off the housing markets? Those don't count? They set up shop in Ireland specifically for the purpose of not having to pay as much in taxes on the profits from the selling of those securities and derivatives globally. In fact, one could argue that Ireland's low tax rate stimulated those practices by incentivizing those banks to crank out and sell as many products as they could before the bubble popped, while they enjoyed a low profit tax. And in all this, not one single job was created. Ireland's economy became unstable, and it now contracts 33% of the time.

Wow. So way to go there. You just implicated Ireland's low tax rate into the global financial crisis of 2008.

Never said they were the best. Compared to the old days though, it's FUCKIN' AWESOME!!!

Compared to the old days? How about compared to economies today? Oh, when you do that suddenly the picture becomes less rosy. Ireland's current state is the culmination of 20 years of policy. And the results are shit.

Was that GDP growth shared by all income groups?
Whiney twat says what?

Well, news for you is that I already did post data about wage growth for Ireland. Data that goes back to cover the present to 2011. And that data shows that Ireland's wages rose slower than the Eurozone's and on pace with Greece and Spain.

Since 2011:

 When compared to other EU-15 countries, Irish compensation falls 14 percent below average.
 When compared to other EU not in bail-out (excluding Greece and Portugal), Ireland falls 21 percent below average.
 When compared with economies with a similar structure as our own (small and open, heavily reliant on exports), Ireland falls 30 percent below average.
 Irish compensation in the main low-paid sectors (retail, hotels and restaurants) fall even further behind other EU-15 averages and is a major contributor to high levels of in-work deprivation.
 Since 2011, Irish compensation has increased at the lowest rate in the EU-15 – bar Spain (and Greece and Portugal which are engulfed in a massive wage recession).
 Irish productivity is well above the average of other EU-15 countries, even when adjusting for multi-national accounting practices.
 Irish Labour costs make up a smaller portion of operating costs than other EU-15 countries.
 After taking a hit at the beginning of the crisis, Irish profits are growing at a faster rate than profits in the Eurozone.[/QUOTE]

And add in a pinch of job insecurity, and you get the disaster that is Conservative economics.

Perception of job insecurity could be cause of slow wage growth, finds report
Irish Times
Oct 11, 2017

So all this recent news about stagnant and low wage growth sure doesn't seem to indicate that the per-capita GDP has any sort of impact on the economy, nor is it an effective measurement of anything. It's just something you shat out on the boards to paper over your fact-deficient argument in favor of shit, garbage policy.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I don't know. Why don't you tell me?!

Why don't you know? You're the one who made the choice to use these numbers as the pillar of your argument, and you/re now telling me you don't know these numbers?

So you're making a deliberately false argument.

That's it. It's your point, dude. You're the one who made it. Now you cannot even back it up, and you think you're entitled to me doing your work for you? You moocher.

Sounds like you have some work to do.!

Actually, the job is yours because you submitted this line of reasoning to the debate, you entered these numbers -numbers you now admit you aren't confident in. If you couldn't produce these numbers in an ACTUAL DEBATE, you'd lose the debate. It's incumbent on you to know the information you're posting. Not me. So get off your fat, lazy ass and do some work for once. Sooner or later, Conservatives are going to have to take personal responsibility for the shit positions and arguments they make.

That's work for you and your sandy vag.

No, it's on you because you're the one who holds up that GDP-per-Capita number as representative of beneficial to the Irish, so that means knowing the numbers you post and how those numbers work in each income group. Otherwise, you have to change your statement to: "They're beneficial to the top 1%".

You submit something into the debate, then run away from it because you're scared it's going to make you look foolish.

Well, newsflash; you're already foolish.

Well, you could look at the wage data I posted.......moron.

Wage data!? You mean the data that cuts off after 2005? LOL! I posted two links showing Ireland's wage growth since 2011 has been below the rest of the Eurozone, as a result of the shit policies you support. This is an example of someone (me) putting in the effort. Take notes.

 When compared to other EU-15 countries, Irish compensation falls 14 percent below average.
 When compared to other EU not in bail-out (excluding Greece and Portugal), Ireland falls 21 percent below average.
 When compared with economies with a similar structure as our own (small and open, heavily reliant on exports), Ireland falls 30 percent below average.
 Irish compensation in the main low-paid sectors (retail, hotels and restaurants) fall even further behind other EU-15 averages and is a major contributor to high levels of in-work deprivation.
 Since 2011, Irish compensation has increased at the lowest rate in the EU-15 – bar Spain (and Greece and Portugal which are engulfed in a massive wage recession).
 Irish productivity is well above the average of other EU-15 countries, even when adjusting for multi-national accounting practices.
 Irish Labour costs make up a smaller portion of operating costs than other EU-15 countries.
 After taking a hit at the beginning of the crisis, Irish profits are growing at a faster rate than profits in the Eurozone.

Ireland, lagging Europe since.....forever.
Cuts corporate tax rates in 1995, GDP soars!!!!

Ah, but it doesn't does it? In fact, Ireland's economy became more volatile, with its unemployment higher, and experiencing economic contraction at least one quarter a year. Why do you want the US economy to contract a quarter each year and shed jobs? Oh right, because you hate America.

Why don't you know?

Because whining about income inequality is a liberal affliction.

That's it. It's your point, dude

Whiney twat says what?

Actually, the job is yours because you submitted this line of reasoning to the debate, you entered these numbers -numbers you now admit you aren't confident in.

I'm utterly confident in the GDP per capita numbers I posted.

it's on you because you're the one who holds up that GDP-per-Capita number as representative of beneficial to the Irish

Says the goofball who thinks the Irish are worse off now, when their GDP per capita is higher than ours in the US, than when their GDP per capita was 1/3rd lower than ours in the US. DURR!

Wage data!? You mean the data that cuts off after 2005?

No, I mean the wage data that showed the gains in the 80s 90s and 2000s

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

How awful!!!

It is awful because it discourages businesses from expanding in that market. Who would expand in an economy that contracts 33% of the time? No wonder Ireland's unemployment rate is so high and one in eight Irish workers skips a meal because they're too poor.

Also, Irish incomes, since 2011, rose at rates lower than that of the EU nations. Almost all of them. Ireland is in the same group as Spain and Greece when it comes to wages. So that means the GDP-per-capita didn't increase for all workers as a result of the tax cut because we have data showing wage growth below most all the EU norms.

So now that we know that pay for most Irish workers didn't rise, we can surmise that the tax cuts caused more harm than good.

Is that the economy that now has a higher GDP per capita than the US?

All it means is that Ireland concentrated all its wealth at the top, which is why its current economy sucks and has sucked for ten years at least.

You wouldn't set up expansion of your export business? Why not?

Not in the Irish market. Too volatile. Too unstable. No wage growth. High unemployment. A subprime bubble.

In other words, Conservative economics.

So now that we know that pay for most Irish workers didn't rise, we can surmise that the tax cuts caused more harm than good.

That's hilarious!!!
All you need to do to prove it is show real wages before the tax cut versus real wages now. I'll wait.

 

[Papageorgio]

[Why do I need to constantly repeat myself, the economy would hurt in the short run, in the long run, the government being fiscally sound would benefit us in the long run. That is why it will never fly, neither party wants to make a tough call because it is very unpopular.

What does the fiscal state of the government have to do with consumer spending and demand? Nothing. You're trying to tie them together because you are a fool with no clue of what you're saying.

I never said it did. Can you comprehend what I am posting?

Short term the debt doesn’t hurt the economy, long term it will create issue that will effect all of us citizens.
As the debt-to-GDP ratio increases, debt holders, such as China could demand larger interest payments. Diminished demand, which is happening now with China, for U.S. Treasurys would further increase interest rates. That would slow the economy. Lower demand for US Treasurys would also devalue the dollar, that means foreign countries would get paid back less which in turn would lessen the demand for the Securities. Lower demand for Treasurys also puts downward pressure on the dollar. That's because the dollar's value is tied to the value of Treasury Securities. As the dollar declines, foreign holders get paid back in currency that is worth less. That further decreases demand. Also, many foreign holders of U.S. debt are investing more in their own countries. That means interest rates would increase. Which would increase the debt and the cycle continues. Also, we cannot continue to borrow against the SS fund. We are already in trouble for dipping into that trust account and soon with added people going on to SS, that will break the bank so to speak. Then we get into real trouble.

Short term nothing, long term higher inflation, higher interest, slower economy.

If we pay down the debt with higher taxes and less spending, short term it will hurt the economy for the reasons you stated, long term we will have lower interest rates, the dollar would remain strong and the retirement accounts of those that paid into SS will be stable.

The other option is to default on our loans and as the largest economy of the world, we would bring the world economy down.

As far as reducing taxes today, that would hurt the European countries and trade. The US companies would be more competitive worldwide, which would help the deficit as more taxes are collected on the goods sold overseas. More goods sold, means higher production and more Americans working. I’m not saying that is a good idea but that would be a positive behind the cuts. Remember Obama kept the tax cuts in place because it helped to stimulate the economy. The big downside is the deficit would grow putting us over the edge long term.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

But their GDP per capita grew 65% faster than ours!!! Moron.

So what? All those gains went to the top, not to the workers, and Ireland's economy has become one of the most unstable in the world, contracting 33% of the time. Not to mention an unemployment rate higher than ours, higher than the UK. But keep touting that obvious sophist bullshit, please. It's really entertaining.

My response is do your own work, whiney twat.

No, it's your work because it's your argument. So if you don't know your argument inside and out, don't fucking make it. So when the GDP-per-Capita rises and wages don't, what does that mean? It means wealth is concentrated at the top. Which is what you want here because you mistakenly think it'll "trickle down".

Wow! Short list.....

You asked for nations, got them, and now you whine because your shitty little argument was stopped cold. Make better arguments, if you can. I doubt you have the effort and skill. I mean, you're so fucking lazy, you won't even bother reviewing the data you posted here...taking the spoiled, entitled position of me doing the work you should have already done before posting.

So why didn't you do that work?

Well, the Anglo_Irish bank was an Irish bank....founded in 1964.
Irish Nationwide Building Society, founded in 1873.
Bank of Ireland, founded in 1783....

Great so none of this has anything to do with what we're talking about. Fine. What about all those Wall Street banks that set up shell companies in Ireland that was used to pass their global profits off the housing markets? Those don't count? They set up shop in Ireland specifically for the purpose of not having to pay as much in taxes on the profits from the selling of those securities and derivatives globally. In fact, one could argue that Ireland's low tax rate stimulated those practices by incentivizing those banks to crank out and sell as many products as they could before the bubble popped, while they enjoyed a low profit tax. And in all this, not one single job was created. Ireland's economy became unstable, and it now contracts 33% of the time.

Wow. So way to go there. You just implicated Ireland's low tax rate into the global financial crisis of 2008.

Never said they were the best. Compared to the old days though, it's FUCKIN' AWESOME!!!

Compared to the old days? How about compared to economies today? Oh, when you do that suddenly the picture becomes less rosy. Ireland's current state is the culmination of 20 years of policy. And the results are shit.

Was that GDP growth shared by all income groups?
Whiney twat says what?

Well, news for you is that I already did post data about wage growth for Ireland. Data that goes back to cover the present to 2011. And that data shows that Ireland's wages rose slower than the Eurozone's and on pace with Greece and Spain.

Since 2011:

 When compared to other EU-15 countries, Irish compensation falls 14 percent below average.
 When compared to other EU not in bail-out (excluding Greece and Portugal), Ireland falls 21 percent below average.
 When compared with economies with a similar structure as our own (small and open, heavily reliant on exports), Ireland falls 30 percent below average.
 Irish compensation in the main low-paid sectors (retail, hotels and restaurants) fall even further behind other EU-15 averages and is a major contributor to high levels of in-work deprivation.
 Since 2011, Irish compensation has increased at the lowest rate in the EU-15 – bar Spain (and Greece and Portugal which are engulfed in a massive wage recession).
 Irish productivity is well above the average of other EU-15 countries, even when adjusting for multi-national accounting practices.
 Irish Labour costs make up a smaller portion of operating costs than other EU-15 countries.
 After taking a hit at the beginning of the crisis, Irish profits are growing at a faster rate than profits in the Eurozone.

So what? All those gains went to the top,

You keep saying that.....without proving it.

Is it that you're lazy? Or does no proof exist?

Ireland's economy has become one of the most unstable in the world, contracting 33% of the time.

Sounds awful!!!

Ireland set for fastest euro zone growth for fourth year in a row



Ireland is on course to be the fastest growing economy in the euro zone for a fourth straight year, according to Davy Stockbrokers.


In its latest economic outlook the firm predicts that gross domestic product (GDP) will grow 5 per cent in 2017, up from a previous forecast of 3.7 per cent. This is well ahead of the current consensus forecast for 1.7 per cent growth across the euro area as a whole.

Ireland set for fastest euro zone growth for fourth year in a row

Awful and WRONG!!!

Not to mention an unemployment rate higher than ours, higher than the UK.

Sounds awful!!!

Employment is expected to expand by 2.8 per cent in 2017 and 2.3 per cent in 2018, sufficient to push Ireland’s unemployment rate to 5.3 per cent next year, a level which the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI) equates to full employment.
Ireland set for fastest euro zone growth for fourth year in a row

I wonder how 5.3% compares to unemployment rates before the corporate tax cut.........

Unemployment in Europe (monthly) - Google Public Data Explorer


That's weird, it looks a lot lower than it was before the tax cut.........

Well, you get back to looking for that turd in the punch bowl.......

 

[The Derp]

All you need to do to prove it is show real wages before the tax cut versus real wages now. I'll wait.

I just posted data showing Ireland's wage growth is among the worst in Europe. That's the culmination of the policy you support.

 

[Boss]

I just posted data showing Ireland's wage growth is among the worst in Europe. That's the culmination of the policy you support.

You're worse than a fucking cockroach! Now you're off over in Europe trying to draw comparisons with Ireland and the US! Derp...derp...fap...fap!

Let's globetrot around and have a look at the policies you support... Stalin- 20 million dead.... Mao- 70 million dead... Pol Pot- 2 million dead... Wow... lots of dead people in the wake of your FAILED policies!

Derp...derp...derp...fap...fap...fap!
Run cockroach, run!