Republicans are clueless when it comes to fixing the economy

[Skull Pilot]

20 years ago there were no 401Ks. Thus any extra money, for most people, went into savings or CDs. Now it seems to me that every company offers a 401K plan. Most companies base their retirement plans on a 401K. I am not sure how this can not have an effect on the stock market.

FYI the 401 k was established in 1978.

nit pick

Accuracy.

 

[editec]

Republicans are clueless when it comes to fixing the economy

NO they are not.

The economy we have is the economy they WANT

 

[Harry Dresden]

Why Extended Federal Unemployment Benefits Boost the Economy

how long should UE be Billy?.....there has to be a cutoff.....

Yeah there should be a cutoff. Of course there is only a million people even on EU. There really is no harm in extending it.

but you are still extending it....there has to be a cutoff and thats it....2 years is quite long...

 

[The Rabbi]

how long should UE be Billy?.....there has to be a cutoff.....

Yeah there should be a cutoff. Of course there is only a million people even on EU. There really is no harm in extending it.

but you are still extending it....there has to be a cutoff and thats it....2 years is quite long...

Its also nonsense to say there's no harm. Workers lose job skills when they don't work. It becomes increasingly harder for them to find jobs. So you end up with the permanently unemployed. Of course Dems love this.

 

[Mac1958]

It seems to me that the money put into a 401K is fairly constant. Like filling a swimming pool. As long as no one shuts off the hose or the pool gets a leak the level has to increase. That is why when the stock market goes down, in my opinion, it means that someone rich is taking money off the top.

Remember that plenty of people are taking money out of 401K's via retirement income, and that number is increasing rapidly as the population increases. I don't have the comparisons of inflow to retirement outflow in front of me, but that's definitely a big mitigating factor.

The stock market is a lousy indicator of the economy. Right now the market is absolutely devoid of reason or rationality, and it moves up and down based on emotion, especially the emotion of institutional investors such as insurance companies, pension plans, etc. It moves based on split-second information, and even when that information is flat wrong.

"Someone rich" is always going to make money on moves, but the move can be up or down.

.

The market is benefitting from lack of competing investments. If Treasuries were paying 5-6% do you think the market would be at these levels?

Oh yeah. So that money is chasing yield, and now dividend-paying stocks are somewhat over-valued. Maybe corporate bonds, too. And now a lot of people are going after alternative investments like REIT's and business development companies (BDC's).

.

 

[Oldstyle]

Every time that Democrats call for an extension to long term unemployment benefits it's a tacit admission that their economic policies have failed miserably. You don't need to extend UE to people if you put them back to work. It's been six years of "progressive" leadership and we've had to endure the worst recovery from a recession in modern economic history the entire time.

 

[The Rabbi]

Remember that plenty of people are taking money out of 401K's via retirement income, and that number is increasing rapidly as the population increases. I don't have the comparisons of inflow to retirement outflow in front of me, but that's definitely a big mitigating factor.

The stock market is a lousy indicator of the economy. Right now the market is absolutely devoid of reason or rationality, and it moves up and down based on emotion, especially the emotion of institutional investors such as insurance companies, pension plans, etc. It moves based on split-second information, and even when that information is flat wrong.

"Someone rich" is always going to make money on moves, but the move can be up or down.

.

The market is benefitting from lack of competing investments. If Treasuries were paying 5-6% do you think the market would be at these levels?

Oh yeah. So that money is chasing yield, and now dividend-paying stocks are somewhat over-valued. Maybe corporate bonds, too. And now a lot of people are going after alternative investments like REIT's and business development companies (BDC's).

.

If you reach for yield, you get burned.
Ive seen this too many times. People chase the last hot thing and get burned doing it.

 

[Billy000]

Yeah there should be a cutoff. Of course there is only a million people even on EU. There really is no harm in extending it.

but you are still extending it....there has to be a cutoff and thats it....2 years is quite long...

Its also nonsense to say there's no harm. Workers lose job skills when they don't work. It becomes increasingly harder for them to find jobs. So you end up with the permanently unemployed. Of course Dems love this.

People on EU make 60% of what their last job paid.

 

[The Rabbi]

but you are still extending it....there has to be a cutoff and thats it....2 years is quite long...

Its also nonsense to say there's no harm. Workers lose job skills when they don't work. It becomes increasingly harder for them to find jobs. So you end up with the permanently unemployed. Of course Dems love this.

People on EU make 60% of what their last job paid.

So?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Its also nonsense to say there's no harm. Workers lose job skills when they don't work. It becomes increasingly harder for them to find jobs. So you end up with the permanently unemployed. Of course Dems love this.

People on EU make 60% of what their last job paid.

So?

i agree ...so what?....WHEN do you cut it off Billy?....up above you agreed there should a cutoff point....but then said the current 2 years should be extended for those still on it today.....when do you say this is it,no more UE?.....

 

[boilermaker55]

What is the big problem for paying the prices for all the commodities you mentioned?
Tell us.

umhmmm, how many time are they going post this..?
and as we see the Dear Leader is even worse at it...

thread fail

And yet you can't explain why it's wrong.

I don't need to explain anything.... I'M LIVING AND SUFFERING through it....

how about, pay $3.00 for a gallon of gas for SIX YEARS now, food prices, I can barely afford hamburger forget steak..taxes raised, less job opportunities...and I could on but why bother...
but you can keep making excuse for him like a good useful tool subject for a party by blaming everyone else, ho hum the usual

 

[Oldstyle]

As I said corporate profits are at an all time high. Where are the jobs?

Which corporate profits? All of them? Do you have that list? Hardly. Gross revenues are spotty.

The primary reason stocks are high is because fundamentals are good. What are fundamentals? Net profit percentages are high because corporations are doing more with less. And, corporation balance sheets are fat because they're not spending money and that free cash flow looks good to investors.

Why are SOME corporations doing more with less, and why are they hoarding cash? One painfully obvious reason is that the current government/business environment is so hostile. I could provide all of the examples of that, but I'm not going to put out that much effort and I'm not sure this website is equipped with the requisite bandwidth for all of them. And companies are not motivated to hire when the government is this hostile. Good gawd, this really should be obvious.

And there are plenty of exceptions. AAPL for example, which just announced a freaking massive stock buyback. So THEY'RE hoarding STOCK in this environment. Smart.

This "corporate profits are at an all time high" meme is typical simplistic partisan patter.

Ironic thread title is very, very ironic.

.

Oh horse shit. You should learn to use Google. A quick search will enlighten you. Just try typing in; "record corporate profits" like I did and see what comes up. I saw several articles on just one page claiming record profits.

Didn't read even one article that claimed the bullshit that you said.

And I loved the part you included about how hostile the current admin. is toward business.
They sure have been hard on them eh. What with all that record profit and lower taxes.

You my man, are fucking nuts.

But what is really funny is watching you dodge the legitimate question of; with the tax breaks for the ultra wealthy and corporations doing so well, where are the fucking jobs people like YOU claimed would be happening IF only the taxes could be lowered and the corporations could be coddled.

Where are the jobs dude?

Ah, jobs are generally created by employers in anticipation of making a profit. If you are pessimistic about the economic outlook or simply unsure what government regulations or policies will mean for your business...the usual response is to take a "wait and see" stance. Quite frankly people with capital don't trust this Administration to do intelligent things when it comes to economic policy...a lack of trust reinforced by the Obama people's ignorance of simply economic reality. As a result they have not invested in business growth and jobs have not been created.

My question to you is a very simple one...why do you believe that tax increases on those who have the capital to invest in businesses will prompt them to create jobs? Time after time after time it's been shown that the opposite is the case...yet misguided people like yourself call for tax increases like THAT is going to stimulate economic growth and it ISN'T!

 

[Mac1958]

Which corporate profits? All of them? Do you have that list? Hardly. Gross revenues are spotty.

The primary reason stocks are high is because fundamentals are good. What are fundamentals? Net profit percentages are high because corporations are doing more with less. And, corporation balance sheets are fat because they're not spending money and that free cash flow looks good to investors.

Why are SOME corporations doing more with less, and why are they hoarding cash? One painfully obvious reason is that the current government/business environment is so hostile. I could provide all of the examples of that, but I'm not going to put out that much effort and I'm not sure this website is equipped with the requisite bandwidth for all of them. And companies are not motivated to hire when the government is this hostile. Good gawd, this really should be obvious.

And there are plenty of exceptions. AAPL for example, which just announced a freaking massive stock buyback. So THEY'RE hoarding STOCK in this environment. Smart.

This "corporate profits are at an all time high" meme is typical simplistic partisan patter.

Ironic thread title is very, very ironic.

.

Oh horse shit. You should learn to use Google. A quick search will enlighten you. Just try typing in; "record corporate profits" like I did and see what comes up. I saw several articles on just one page claiming record profits.

Didn't read even one article that claimed the bullshit that you said.

And I loved the part you included about how hostile the current admin. is toward business.
They sure have been hard on them eh. What with all that record profit and lower taxes.

You my man, are fucking nuts.

But what is really funny is watching you dodge the legitimate question of; with the tax breaks for the ultra wealthy and corporations doing so well, where are the fucking jobs people like YOU claimed would be happening IF only the taxes could be lowered and the corporations could be coddled.

Where are the jobs dude?

Ah, jobs are generally created by employers in anticipation of making a profit. If you are pessimistic about the economic outlook or simply unsure what government regulations or policies will mean for your business...the usual response is to take a "wait and see" stance. Quite frankly people with capital don't trust this Administration to do intelligent things when it comes to economic policy...a lack of trust reinforced by the Obama people's ignorance of simply economic reality. As a result they have not invested in business growth and jobs have not been created.

My question to you is a very simple one...why do you believe that tax increases on those who have the capital to invest in businesses will prompt them to create jobs? Time after time after time it's been shown that the opposite is the case...yet misguided people like yourself call for tax increases like THAT is going to stimulate economic growth and it ISN'T!

He also managed to somehow not see where I described clearly why businesses aren't excited about hiring.

And notice how they continue to deny that the administration is hostile to business.

Partisan ideology leads to blindness, big time.

It's my profession, I live it. He "Googles" it.



.

 

[Oldstyle]

I don't know that this Administration is "hostile" to business, Mac...I see it more as they don't understand business. There are fewer business people in the Obama White House than probably any Administration in history...hence their very real problem with the Private Sector. They haven't done well creating jobs in the Private Sector because they aren't Private Sector "people". They are Public Sector folks.

 

[mudwhistle]

I don't know that this Administration is "hostile" to business, Mac...I see it more as they don't understand business. There are fewer business people in the Obama White House than probably any Administration in history...hence their very real problem with the Private Sector. They haven't done well creating jobs in the Private Sector because they aren't Private Sector "people". They are Public Sector folks.

Forcing businesses to do things they know will put them out of business seems pretty hostile to me......

I don't think it's total incompetence, just partial incompetence.


This all goes back to a child raised in a communist family, that never had to live in a communist country, suffering from the effects of communism on the economy and the people. A child who sneers at Capitalism and all of the benefits he himself experienced.

 

[Mac1958]

I don't know that this Administration is "hostile" to business, Mac...I see it more as they don't understand business. There are fewer business people in the Obama White House than probably any Administration in history...hence their very real problem with the Private Sector. They haven't done well creating jobs in the Private Sector because they aren't Private Sector "people". They are Public Sector folks.

That's a fair point, but I think it's both a dislike for private business and a general ignorance of the dynamics of running a business. And I don't think they want to understand.

Look at the posts on this board. Their opinions are terribly simplistic and shallow, they approach everything with static analysis rather than dynamic analysis, and they constantly make assumptions that a child would make. Businesses of all sizes perceive the hostility from the left, how else do you explain the legislation they create and the statements they make?

And of course, there's their adoration of the federal bureaucracy as the alternative to private business.

It is ignorance or hatred? I suspect it's all of the above.

.

 

[mudwhistle]

I don't know that this Administration is "hostile" to business, Mac...I see it more as they don't understand business. There are fewer business people in the Obama White House than probably any Administration in history...hence their very real problem with the Private Sector. They haven't done well creating jobs in the Private Sector because they aren't Private Sector "people". They are Public Sector folks.

That's a fair point, but I think it's both a dislike for private business and a general ignorance of the dynamics of running a business. And I don't think they want to understand.

Look at the posts on this board. Their opinions are terribly simplistic and shallow, they approach everything with static analysis rather than dynamic analysis, and they constantly make assumptions that a child would make. Businesses of all sizes perceive the hostility from the left, how else do you explain the legislation they create and the statements they make?

And of course, there's their adoration of the federal bureaucracy as the alternative to private business.

It is ignorance or hatred? I suspect it's all of the above.

.

The point being they think their base is stupid or too biased to question what they put out.


And they're right on both counts.

 

[The T]

I don't know that this Administration is "hostile" to business, Mac...I see it more as they don't understand business. There are fewer business people in the Obama White House than probably any Administration in history...hence their very real problem with the Private Sector. They haven't done well creating jobs in the Private Sector because they aren't Private Sector "people". They are Public Sector folks.

They don't understand business, because by-and-large none of them have ever run a business OR have ever held a private sector job in their lives.

It's easy to understand. Astute observation.

 

[Freewill]

Tough question. On one hand, inflows to qualified plans generally remain fairly consistent because they're automatic out of paychecks, so the ebb & flow there doesn't have too much effect, I reckon. I'm an investment advisor and I rarely if ever see any kind of significant changes there with my business clients.

On the other hand, the mutual funds within the plans do buy & sell, and there's about $3.5T invested in them through qualified plans like 401K's.

Hmm. I guess my answer would be "a little". How's that for an evasive answer!

.

It seems to me that the money put into a 401K is fairly constant. Like filling a swimming pool. As long as no one shuts off the hose or the pool gets a leak the level has to increase. That is why when the stock market goes down, in my opinion, it means that someone rich is taking money off the top.

Remember that plenty of people are taking money out of 401K's via retirement income, and that number is increasing rapidly as the baby boomer population increases. I don't have the comparisons of inflow to retirement outflow in front of me, but that's definitely a big mitigating factor.

The stock market is a lousy indicator of the economy. Right now the market is absolutely devoid of reason or rationality, and it moves up and down based on emotion, especially the emotion of institutional investors such as insurance companies, pension plans, etc. It moves based on split-second information, and even when that information is flat wrong.

"Someone rich" is always going to make money on moves, but the move can be up or down.

.

Yeah, they make money regardless of how the market moves, that is why gambling in the stock market scares folks like me, regardless of how reassuring our financial guy may talk. After all on Black Friday there were lots of them jumping out windows. But gamble we must because it really seems to be the thing to do.

 

[skookerasbil]

And yet you can't explain why it's wrong.

I don't need to explain anything.... I'M LIVING AND SUFFERING through it....
but you can keep making excuse for him like a good useful tool subject for a party by blaming everyone else, ho hum the usual

I'm not saying Obama fixed the economy. I'm saying he could have had republicans not fucked everything up. However what he did do is prevent the economy from collapsing from the 2008 crisis.

IM laughing........

So when this next bubble bursts in the next couple of years, let me get this straight? Its the fault of the Republicans?

s0n.......you have the political IQ of a small soap dish. A handful of far left internet assholes might push that shit but it wont resonate anywhere else.