Republicans to target unions, expand school choice in states

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Yes it is, the "will of the people" set ratified the Constitution and the process of electing a President and Vice President. The "will of people" have not changed this procedure, so the "will of the people" has been carried out according to the Constitution. If the "will of the people" want to change the election process, then that is what the "will of the people" need to do. To say that the results of the election were no the "will of the people" is a dishonest statement.

the electoral college is not the popular vote. the people are the popular vote.

We already established that there is a difference between the two. You claim it wasn't the "will of the people". According to the Constitution it is the "will of the people". You are simply wrong with that statement. Please try to focus.

The point is, there is a difference between the will of the Electoral College and the will of the People.

The difference is both candidates ran to get the most electoral college votes--not the popular vote. Now if Trump ran to get the most people, he might have just won that battle too. But he didn't campaign for that. He campaigned to get the most electoral college votes.

Since both candidates were campaigning for the same thing, it's more than a fair contest. The popular vote is irrelevant because that was not the goal of either candidate.

What you're trying to say is that Trump won the election the way we've always had them, but Hillary won by a different set of rules. You can't change the rules after the game--only before.

the only thing i am trying to say is that the right is simply being disingenuous, like usual, when claiming any popular mandate for their candidate.

Throw out New York and California liberals who vote in lock-step and what was the popular vote?

 

[Cecilie1200]

You want me to pay school taxes AND pay you a voucher to put your kids in private school?

It would only be the start. When it becomes more popular, you can take public money out of the public schools and apply it to vouchers. I have a better idea though: I think home school parents should be able to teach other children in the neighborhood as well. Last I looked, the average cost per capita is something like 12K per year per student. Why not give home school parents 8K a year for each student they decide to teach? It would replace that lost second income while at the same time, save the taxpayers 4K per student every year.

Technically, they can do that now, assuming they live in a state that's amenable to homeschooling in the first place. Arizona, for example. Nothing says that THE PARENT has to be the one to do the schooling. My adult daughter was homeschooled, and at the time, our church operated a small school in their annex that actually put the kids through the homeschool curriculum they used. By the time my adult son came along, the church was no longer doing that, but they facilitated us continuing to get the curriculum materials, and we taught him at home.

Now that I'm homeschooling our "surprise" third child, we use a different curriculum, and I've had a few friends ask about the possibility of me including their kids, as well, so that they can get the benefits of homeschooling without having to slash their income in half. If Arizona was willing to provide vouchers to homeschoolers, I would be more than happy to quit my job and teach homeschoolers full-time. I guarantee you, they would graduate with skills FAR surpassing those of public school kids.

I think that would be the greatest thing in the world. But there is one reason why you'll never see that--Unions.

Taking money and students out of the public school system would be a huge threat to the NEA. That's because it would probably become so popular they would lose a considerable share.

True, and I frankly think that's as it should be. It would do NEA members - and society - a world of good if they learned how to operate in a competitive, results-oriented environment.

You education-haters put too much power to the NEA. There are other teacher's unions and numerous states where unions are not even allowed. Shouldn't those states be far and above those where the NEA has dominance?

They do not.

I have been a union member twice. They screwed me over twice. Never again.

"You education-haters". Maybe it's my lack of contact with public school teachers in the last 30 years, but I'm a bit confused how anything I've said can be construed as "hating education". Seems like a radical interpretation of the text to me.

 

[Cecilie1200]

no one is questioning that. however, it is not the will of the People.

Yes it is, the "will of the people" set ratified the Constitution and the process of electing a President and Vice President. The "will of people" have not changed this procedure, so the "will of the people" has been carried out according to the Constitution. If the "will of the people" want to change the election process, then that is what the "will of the people" need to do. To say that the results of the election were no the "will of the people" is a dishonest statement.

the electoral college is not the popular vote. the people are the popular vote.

The CONSTITUTION says the electoral votes chooses the President. What's so hard for you to understand about that? Why do you hate the Constitution?

Because he didn't get his way and now he is crying, if the situation was reversed he would have been praising the Electoral College and the process. If that is all you got, then that is all you got.

How long are these idiots going to bring up popular votes when the Constitution says absolutely nothing about them when it comes to choosing the President. It's safe to safe when the founders created a system where each State got electoral votes based on representation in Congress they didn't consider the concept of using popular votes to determine how those electoral votes within each State would be decided. The choice to use popular votes to determine how a State's electoral votes are decided is a State decision not one set by the Constitution.

They will continue to bring it up for as long as they think someone is impressed by it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Again, like that other fellow, you seem to forget the law of supply and demand. if you give everyone a voucher, the costs of htose private schools will go up. There's only a finite number of available teachers and a finite number of schools. Right now, private, religious and charter schools only serve 9% of school age kids. Who is going to take care of the other 91% if you start diverting public monies to these schools?

Private schools still have to compete with public schools, so their fees won't increase like we've seen with college.

Thing is, again, if we turned education into a free market, the market would correct. If private school tuitions went up too high, the market's response would be for someone to see the opportunity to undercut them and provide solid education for a much lower price. Let the actual consumers of the product (in this instance, education) do the shopping, and you will see the providers dropping prices and offering incentives to gain business, just like any other industry.

And yes, I know the leftists in the audience are OUTRAGED by me referring to education as a "product" and "industry", because they believe it's some holy, mystical, arcane sacrament that can only be provided by duly initiated high priests (ie. liberal unionized teachers), but the truth is, it's a commodity. That's why we pay people to produce it. And like any commodity, when it is produced by the government instead of the free market, it tends to be substandard.

That is the problem. We taxpayers look at education as a service we pay for, and they want to say it's a guaranteed entitlement.

I just get so sick of people using "the children" as an excuse to get more government goodies. Children then become pawns and shields. They want people to have children without the expenses like education, and pass that bill to the rest of society and say it's our problem.

As I stated earlier, I'm willing to do my part, but it has to be fair. I should not be paying the same or more for public schools as those with children in those schools. And like yourself, if you are taking on the job and expense of educating your own children, you should be able to keep at least some of the money you pay for public schools to help with your expenses of educating your own children.

Well, it's not surprising that the result of our "rewards for breathing" society is people who think they drop off a kid in kindergarten, pick him up at graduation, and he's able to discuss physics with Stephen Hawking, and then are outraged to find out he can barely order fries-with-that without screwing it up.

Homeschooling is a lot of work, but I was taught that anything worth doing IS a lot of work.

 

[Cecilie1200]

and they should

with bullshit like this happening in the public schools

another area that needs to be drained of the insidious poison known as liberalism



DESPICABLE: Teacher bullies 9-year-old girl for deer hunting: “Killing animals is not what we do!”


DESPICABLE: Teacher bullies 9-year-old girl for deer hunting: “Killing animals is not what we do!”

My kids would have answered, "Who's 'we', lady?"

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's great to see these kids doing so well. Kids who would otherwise be treated as victims because of their skin color and family income are doing great because they're held to the same standards and expectations as anyone else. In a tougher academic environment.

My mixed-race family is so proud of my daughter, and we love it when she tells us stories of these kids. Brown or black skin doesn't mean a kid should be treated differently, and this school proves it.

Nice dodge to not answer the questions, Mac.

One more try.

Is this charter school taking the special needs kids and the disciplinary problem kids? Or are they just taking kids where they can show good results with?

Not trying to dodge anything. It's not a private school, it's a charter school. Apply, do the paperwork, you're in.

Ain't that great for the kids?

This IS about the KIDS, right?
.

charter schools pick and choose the kids they want. they divest public schools of funding and make unaccountable corporations rich.

Charter schools are public schools, dumbass.

"Unaccountable corporations".

I'm just going to sit here and laugh about that for a while. Don't mind me.

 

[Thunderbird]

First, there aren't enough private schools to accommedate all the kids.

Supply would grow to meet demand.

Second, the private schools will cherry pick the kids they want, not the ones who probably need the help.

Difficult students could carry with them a higher voucher payment.

Third, you increase demand for something, the price will go up. Which means that it will cost more to voucher a kid than to send him to a public school. That will waste tax dollars.

Supply will grow to meet demand. Private schools are often cheaper than public schools.

Why don't you want to offer students options?

Keep telling yourself lies and you will wallow in ignorance forever.

Consider: http://archive.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/articles/1126coulson1126.html

Educating Our Children: Catholic Schools Doing More With Less

 

[Thunderbird]

I want students (parents) to have a choice. I just don't want that choice to include privates schools.

You want them to have a choice between the options you choose? lol

Private organizations provide many services paid for by the government: health care, housing, etc. Why not include education? Why do you feel you should be making people's choices for them?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

First, there aren't enough private schools to accommedate all the kids.

Supply would grow to meet demand.

Second, the private schools will cherry pick the kids they want, not the ones who probably need the help.

Difficult students could carry with them a higher voucher payment.

Third, you increase demand for something, the price will go up. Which means that it will cost more to voucher a kid than to send him to a public school. That will waste tax dollars.

Supply will grow to meet demand. Private schools are often cheaper than public schools.

Why don't you want to offer students options?

Keep telling yourself lies and you will wallow in ignorance forever.

Consider: http://archive.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/articles/1126coulson1126.html

Educating Our Children: Catholic Schools Doing More With Less

Great article! [\sarcasm]

Let's see the national stats instead of a blanket statement without any support. BTW, Catholic schools are not the only private schools.

 

[Thunderbird]

Fascism/Nazism = worship of the state or statolatry. Hillary with her love of pointless & endless wars, her fascination with the nanny state, her ties to the abortion industry, her subservience to the PC thought police, and her devotion to ever expanding bureaucracies (along with the accompanying cash provided by government unions) is the Hitler twin.

First, Abortion was illegal in Nazi Germany.

The Nazis eagerly promoted abortion in the occupied territories. They wanted to eliminate "inferiors", just like today's progressives. The Nazis were condemned at the Nuremburg War Crimes Tribunal for encouraging abortion.

And check out: lifeissues.net | The Abortion and Eugenics Policies of Nazi Germany

Nazi Germany has the dubious distinction of being the only country to ever execute people for performing abortions.

Please apologize for making such a stupid statement. You know the French passed a law in 1939 giving abortionists the death penalty.

Second, the Nazis weren't PC.

Sure they were! They hated free speech just like the intolerant liberal thought police.

Kirsten Powers: Liberals' Dark Ages

Memo to Evangelicals: Don't Be Surprised by Fiery Trials, Including Intolerance and Name-Calling By Gay Activists

Third- The Nazis didn't create a "nanny state". Germany had universal health care and social security before the Nazis came to power, and they expanded it after the Nazis were gone under the auspices of American occupation.

Evidence?

 

[Thunderbird]

Supply would grow to meet demand.

But there wouldn't be more schools built, more teachers trained, etc.

We wouldn't need a lot more teachers. Some of the teachers would simply move from teaching public school to teaching private school.

Teacher Shortages: Trends, Projections, and What Experts Say

One possibility: teachers don't want to work in public schools because of all the bureaucratic hassles.

What you will have are a lot of opportunists and fly-by-night companies going out there to scoop up those available dollars.

Like our public universities are so wonderful and tolerant. lol



And certainly no waste or administrative bloat at public universities. lol

The Highest-Paid Public University Presidents

Who determines who gets a higher voucher payment? Who pays for the higher vouchers? And frankly, who'd want to take a more difficult student regardless of how much more you get paid.

I really don't see the problems.

These programs already exist: North Carolina - Special Education Scholarship Grants for Children with Disabilities

Well, no, they aren't. The problem is you look at the average, including all the special ed work that the private schools refuse to do.

As we've seen this isn't true.

I don't want to undermine the system that we have because the Right Wing wants to break the teachers unions.

How can giving students and their parents choice undermine the system?! Why do you want to control people and make decisions for them? What's your problem? Teachers unions will continue after voucher reform. The only people who should be afraid of education reform are the slothful educational bureaucrats who want to disempower students.

More facts for you to flee from:

San Antonio's proven that school vouchers work well

School Choice Works

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Supply would grow to meet demand.

But there wouldn't be more schools built, more teachers trained, etc.

We wouldn't need a lot more teachers. Some of the teachers would simply move from teaching public school to teaching private school.

Teacher Shortages: Trends, Projections, and What Experts Say

One possibility: teachers don't want to work in public schools because of all the bureaucratic hassles.

What you will have are a lot of opportunists and fly-by-night companies going out there to scoop up those available dollars.

Like our public universities are so wonderful and tolerant. lol



And certainly no waste or administrative bloat at public universities. lol

The Highest-Paid Public University Presidents

Who determines who gets a higher voucher payment? Who pays for the higher vouchers? And frankly, who'd want to take a more difficult student regardless of how much more you get paid.

I really don't see the problems.

These programs already exist: North Carolina - Special Education Scholarship Grants for Children with Disabilities

Well, no, they aren't. The problem is you look at the average, including all the special ed work that the private schools refuse to do.

As we've seen this isn't true.

I don't want to undermine the system that we have because the Right Wing wants to break the teachers unions.

How can giving students and their parents choice undermine the system?! Why do you want to control people and make decisions for them? What's your problem? Teachers unions will continue after voucher reform. The only people who should be afraid of education reform are the slothful educational bureaucrats who want to disempower students.

More facts for you to flee from:

San Antonio's proven that school vouchers work well

School Choice Works

There is no rush for public school teachers to teach in private schools for one reason: Private school pay sucks even worse than public school pay sucks!

Teachers leave the profession and go do something else because they get tired of the endless long hours, no support from parents, no support from administrators, and having to put up with students who think being an asshole is their God-given right.

 

[Thunderbird]

There is no rush for public school teachers to teach in private schools for one reason: Private school pay sucks even worse than public school pay sucks!

Teachers leave the profession and go do something else because they get tired of the endless long hours, no support from parents, no support from administrators, and having to put up with students who think being an asshole is their God-given right.

You seem to recognize that the current system is inadequate. Shouldn't we blame the current inefficient public school monopoly wherein no one is accountable?

I'm sure you recognize that public school teacher salaries would rise if we had a voucher system.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

There is no rush for public school teachers to teach in private schools for one reason: Private school pay sucks even worse than public school pay sucks!

Teachers leave the profession and go do something else because they get tired of the endless long hours, no support from parents, no support from administrators, and having to put up with students who think being an asshole is their God-given right.

You seem to recognize that the current system is inadequate. Shouldn't we blame the current inefficient public school monopoly wherein no one is accountable?

I'm sure you recognize that public school teacher salaries would rise if we had a voucher system.

OK, tell me how you think teacher salaries would rise in a voucher system that would be stripping funding from public schools and handing it over to private schools?

Keep in mind, I have a Master's degree in Educational Leadership and studied School Finance under probably the leading expert in the entire country.

In other words, don't try blowing smoke up my ass unless you want to choke on it!

 

[Thunderbird]

OK, tell me how you think teacher salaries would rise in a voucher system that would be stripping funding from public schools and handing it over to private schools?

The only public schools that would be stripped of funding would be the bad schools that failed to attract students.

Obviously under a voucher program the private schools would have more students and cash and the teachers would insist on bigger salaries.

Example: I know of a private school that has (mostly) small classes. If these classes were larger the school would be in a position to pay higher salaries.

But you must understand this with your Master's degree in Educational Leadership! lol

Can we agree that the public educational system is saddled with a useless, bloated bureaucracy?

Can we agree that the current educational system does not adequately discipline students?

Who Killed School Discipline?

 

[JoeB131]

Change the Constitution don't bitch to me about it. I voted for someone else, dumb ass!

A vote for third party is a vote for Trump.

That's right, I forgot you are an ignorant moron that has to lump people into two categories.

I didn't lose anything, I didn't like many of his policies and a few I supported. Sorry you aren't very smart and have to play the race card because you are smart enough to do anything else.

Now it's time to watch you lose your shit because you didn't get your way and are crying like a baby.

Naw, man, I'm in a perfect position to make out like a bandit when Trump tanks the economy. I'm just upset that stupid fucks like you were so racist and misogynistic that you put him in a position to do it to start with.

 

[JoeB131]

The Nazis eagerly promoted abortion in the occupied territories. They wanted to eliminate "inferiors", just like today's progressives. The Nazis were condemned at the Nuremburg War Crimes Tribunal for encouraging abortion.

Guy, you don't link to a misogynistic anti-abortion website and pretend you made a point.

Abortion in Germany - Wikipedia

In Nazi Germany, the penalties for abortion were increased again. In 1943, providing an abortion to an "Aryan" woman became a capital offense. Abortion was permitted if the foetus was deformed or disabled.[2][3]

The Cross of Honour of the German Mother (German: Ehrenkreuz der Deutschen Mutter), referred to colloquially as the Mutterehrenkreuz (Mother’s Cross of Honour) or simply Mutterkreuz (Mother’s Cross), was a state decoration and civil order of merit conferred by the government of the German Reich[4][5] to honour a Reichsdeutsche German mother for exceptional merit to the German nation.[5][6][7]Eligibility later extended to include Volksdeutsche (ethnic German) mothers from, for example, Austria and Sudetenland, that had earlier been incorporated into the German Reich.[7]

The decoration was conferred from 1939 until 1945[8] in three classes of order, bronze, silver, and gold,[5][9] to Reichsdeutsche mothers who exhibited probity, exemplary motherhood, and who conceived and raised at least four or more children in the role of a parent.[10][11]

Please apologize for making such a stupid statement. You know the French passed a law in 1939 giving abortionists the death penalty.

But the only time that law was carried out was in Vichy France under Nazi occupation... so, um, no, the point stands. The Nazis were the only people to live the Anti Abortion wet dream of killing an abortionist (legally, anyway.).

Marie-Louise Giraud - Wikipedia

Marie-Louise Giraud, at the age of 39, was guillotined on the morning of July 30, 1943, in the courtyard of the prison de la Roquette in Paris by executioner Jules-Henri Desfourneaux for having performed 27 abortions in the region of Cherbourg. She was the only faiseuse d'anges (French slang: literally "maker of angels") to be executed for this reason. A man was also beheaded the same year for three abortions.

Coming from a poor family, Giraud was married to a sailor, with whom she had two children. She worked as a domestic housekeeper and laundress. From the beginning of World War II, she also rented rooms to prostitutes. She began to perform abortions, initially on a voluntary basis and without compensation.

Sure they were! They hated free speech just like the intolerant liberal thought police.

Guy, you can't quote Kirstin Powers, who has her kneepads on for the right wing, and still be credible on an issue.

It's like you don't even understand how this works.

 

[Conservative65]

The CONSTITUTION says the electoral votes chooses the President. What's so hard for you to understand about that? Why do you hate the Constitution?

Because it was written by a bunch of slave raping assholes who shit in chamber pots and thought bleeding was a valid medical treatment?

Works for me, too. I sent my kids to private school which means I had to pay in addition to paying the taxes for public schools. In the end, my kids would have received the same thing they did and I wouldn't have had to pay for something they didn't use.

Obviously, you didn't learn the meaning of sarcasm while you were away...

It's had over 200 years to be changed and it still says the same thing other than a few procedural changes. Get over it, fag boy, your bitch lost.

Obviously you're still the same pussy you've always been.

 

[Conservative65]

Change the Constitution don't bitch to me about it. I voted for someone else, dumb ass!

A vote for third party is a vote for Trump.

That's right, I forgot you are an ignorant moron that has to lump people into two categories.

I didn't lose anything, I didn't like many of his policies and a few I supported. Sorry you aren't very smart and have to play the race card because you are smart enough to do anything else.

Now it's time to watch you lose your shit because you didn't get your way and are crying like a baby.

Naw, man, I'm in a perfect position to make out like a bandit when Trump tanks the economy. I'm just upset that stupid fucks like you were so racist and misogynistic that you put him in a position to do it to start with.

Your bitch lost. It's that simple. You never expected something like that to happen did you fag boy?

 

[JoeB131]

We wouldn't need a lot more teachers. Some of the teachers would simply move from teaching public school to teaching private school.

Why would they do that? "Hey, they're hiring at the new private school! They are paying less money and you can be fired at will, but it's totally worth it to quit your nice union job!"

One possibility: teachers don't want to work in public schools because of all the bureaucratic hassles.

Naw, most teachers quit because they discover children are actually little bastards, mostly.

And their parents are worse. Here's the real problem with education today!

Like our public universities are so wonderful and tolerant. lol

YOu mean she got upset that some little creep was filming them without their permission? I think that's most people, actually.

As we've seen this isn't true.

No, guy, we have seen it's true. I've posted link after link that shows even AFTER you let the Charter School scams cherry pick the kids they want, they do no better than the public schools. And that's before you dump shitloads of money into it and get the University of Phoenix Effect on the process.

How can giving students and their parents choice undermine the system?! Why do you want to control people and make decisions for them? What's your problem? Teachers unions will continue after voucher reform. The only people who should be afraid of education reform are the slothful educational bureaucrats who want to disempower students.

Except that it hasn't worked yet, after we spend a billion a year on Voucher Scams.

Researcher 'stunned' by high rate of voucher school failures in Milwaukee

Forty-one percent of all private schools that participated in the Milwaukee private school voucher program between 1991 and 2015 failed, according to a new study by a voucher school proponent who said he was stunned by the findings.

“I do not mean failed as in they did not deliver academically, I mean failed as in they no longer exist,” University of Wisconsin-Oshkosh Professor Michael Ford wrote. “These 102 schools either closed after having their voucher revenue cut off by the Department of Public Instruction, or simply shut their doors. The failure rate for entrepreneurial start-up schools is even worse: 67.8 percent.”

Ford is a former vice president of School Choice Wisconsin.

In a summary of his study, he concludes:

“The larger, perhaps more troubling legacy of the first 25 years of the Milwaukee voucher experience is the problem of externalities…When a school closes, students and parents must find new schools, student records may be lost, student achievement will likely suffer, and the public investment in failed institutions is lost.