Right wingers...regarding Orlando tragedy....you have a tough choice to make

[Contumacious]

Tell me the war on drugs has been an abject failure what on earth makes you think your war on guns will succeed?

Because it's worked in every other industrialized nation just fine.

Guns have to be manufactured. stop introducing new ones and the ammo to make them work, all you have are closets full of useless metal.

The US police state has banned drugs

Is there any US jurisdiction where "illegal drugs" can not be found?


.

 

[JoeB131]

Someone somewhere will still make them.

True enough. But let's look at that.

40% of gun sales are STILL to government agencies. Why cheeze off your biggest customer by selling to people who shouldn't have them?

 

[Dale Smith]

Right wingers.....especially on this forum......Your choice is both simple and a tough one to make.

Either you continue to adamantly support the sale of assault weapons to maniacs....weapons whose ONLY purpose is to kill as many people as possible in the shortest amount of time...........OR

You employ some sanity and abandon this moronic notion that NO weapon should be outlawed so that you can "idealize' some stupid scenario that you must defend yourself from government troops......

If you have a conscience (and since most of you call yourselves "good Christians") you have a choice to make....Be tacitly complicit in mass murders....or change your attitude toward the sale of such lethal weapons,[/QUO}


Death by democide is responsible for the death of 260 million people since 1900. When your "gubermint" stages these mass shootings (like so many have) then add the fact that they are flying in unvetted muslims PLUS we have a totally unsecured southern border? Only an idiot liberal would advocate that people shouldn't arm themselves with the best equipment available.
It's not a tough choice at all for the sane thinkers because too many are awake. They know that the globalist agenda is being pushed. They are taking over control of the food, they are buying up fresh water supplies. They want control over every aspect of our lives making us dependent on them. If we lose the right to defend ourselves, we have no chance whatsoever and we will lose any help those in the military would have for us.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Tell me the war on drugs has been an abject failure what on earth makes you think your war on guns will succeed?

Because it's worked in every other industrialized nation just fine.

Guns have to be manufactured. stop introducing new ones and the ammo to make them work, all you have are closets full of useless metal.

No it hasn't. There are still gun crimes in every other country with strict gun laws and even those with gun bans

You have yet to prove that the historical murder rates in those countries were the same or higher than ours before their gun bans as usual you just assume it was

The crime rate in this country is decreasing and has been over the last decade even while gun sales have been soaring

 

[JoeB131]

No it hasn't. There are still gun crimes in every other country with strict gun laws and even those with gun bans

Yes, but a lot less of them. The Perfect is not the enemy of the Good.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No it hasn't. There are still gun crimes in every other country with strict gun laws and even those with gun bans

Yes, but a lot less of them. The Perfect is not the enemy of the Good.

And you have yet to prove the murder and crime rates in those countries were as high or higher than ours historically before any gun bans.

If they weren't and I think they weren't then your entire argument falls apart

 

[kaz]

Got a link? Facts? Something like these?:

CDC - Fact Sheets-Alcohol Use And Health - Alcohol
Excessive alcohol use led to approximately 88,000 deaths and 2.5 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2006 – 2010, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 30 years.1,2 Further, excessive drinking was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years. The economic costs of excessive alcohol consumption in 2010 were estimated at $249 billion, or $2.05 a drink.

CDC - Fact Sheets-Excessive Alcohol Use and Risks to Men's Health - Alcohol
Injuries and deaths as a result of excessive alcohol use

• Men consistently have higher rates of alcohol-related deaths and hospitalizations than women.1,8,9
• Among drivers in fatal motor-vehicle traffic crashes, men are almost twice as likely as women to have been intoxicated (i.e., a blood alcohol concentration of 0.08% or greater).10
• Excessive alcohol consumption increases aggression and, as a result, can increase the risk of physically assaulting another person.11
• Men are more likely than women to commit suicide, and more likely to have been drinking prior to committing suicide.

Prescription Opioid Overdose Data | Drug Overdose | CDC Injury Center
Overdose deaths involving prescription opioids have quadrupled since 1999,1 and so have sales of these prescription drugs.2 From 1999 to 2014, more than 165,000 people have died in the U.S. from overdoses related to prescription opioids.1

Opioid prescribing continues to fuel the epidemic. Today, at least half of all U.S. opioid overdose deaths involve a prescription opioid.1 In 2014, more than 14,000 people died from overdoses involving prescription opioids.


In case you missed it, kaz, all of the above are legal and in government-regulated purity and quality form. Again I support the legalization of all drugs, but let's not fool ourselves that everyone will have a happily-ever-after if we do.

Since none of your articles compare legal to illegal alcohol, none of them address the discussion.

Also, when you make a point, you don't get to tell me I have to prove you wrong. I read all the time about things like how a bunch of deaths were caused by

1) additives like formaldehyde

2) spikes in potency

3) unhygenic things like dirty needles

Seriously, you don't? I'm not big on Googling things for people you could easily Google yourselves. But those are three specific things to look into. I am not claiming it would lead to a big lowering of deaths. I just disagree with you it would necessarily go up. And I don't see anyone who would start using drugs because they become legal.

Another indirect area of deaths like drug shootings would also go down

Actually illegal Alcohol has killed lots of people. Using the wrong wood in the process creates a poison.

Agreed. Let's not forget moonshine made with lead pipes.

What I challenged was your statement making drugs illegal would lead to more drug deaths.

Your statement that alcohol is legal and lots of people die doesn't contradict my challenge.

Slyhunter saying that people die from illegal alcohol too, actually, doesn't contradict that either

Legalizing something, like alcohol, allows them to regulate it and control quality which reduces the deaths from that product.

So you were contradicting me ... by agreeing with me? That was my point ...

 

[Skull Pilot]

The murder rate in UK/ Wales in 1950 was .79 per 100,000
It was 4.6 per 100,000 in the USA

The murder rate for 2011 in England/Wales was 1 per 100,000 (Virtually the same even after the strict gun laws were passed)
In the US it was 4.7 per 100,000

So it seems England has an inherently lower murder rate than the US

This implies that it is not guns but demographics and culture

 

[Markle]

More mass shootings have now occurred under Barack Obama’s watch than the past four president’s combined (Reagan – 11, Bush Sr. – 12, Clinton – 23, Bush Jr. – 16, Obama – 162)

I'm sure there's a point there somewhere. It's not a left or right problem, it's an American problem. You love your guns....

Your desperation is duly noted.

 

[kaz]

More mass shootings have now occurred under Barack Obama’s watch than the past four president’s combined (Reagan – 11, Bush Sr. – 12, Clinton – 23, Bush Jr. – 16, Obama – 162)

I'm sure there's a point there somewhere. It's not a left or right problem, it's an American problem. You love your guns....

Your desperation is duly noted.

International elitist leftists like Grumpy are such a joy ...

 

[JoeB131]

And you have yet to prove the murder and crime rates in those countries were as high or higher than ours historically before any gun bans.

If they weren't and I think they weren't then your entire argument falls apart

Kind of hard to make that point when gun ownership was never that high to start with in most of those countries, but never mind. I know you gun nuts desperately grasp for any alternative theory to guns.

blame race, blame culture, blame their "foreignness" Never, ever, admit that we have outlandish crime rates because we have outlandish access to weapons.

 

[JoeB131]

The murder rate in UK/ Wales in 1950 was .79 per 100,000
It was 4.6 per 100,000 in the USA

The murder rate for 2011 in England/Wales was 1 per 100,000 (Virtually the same even after the strict gun laws were passed)
In the US it was 4.7 per 100,000

So it seems England has an inherently lower murder rate than the US

This implies that it is not guns but demographics and culture

yup, it's those damned darkies... but don't call you racist.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And you have yet to prove the murder and crime rates in those countries were as high or higher than ours historically before any gun bans.

If they weren't and I think they weren't then your entire argument falls apart

Kind of hard to make that point when gun ownership was never that high to start with in most of those countries, but never mind. I know you gun nuts desperately grasp for any alternative theory to guns.

blame race, blame culture, blame their "foreignness" Never, ever, admit that we have outlandish crime rates because we have outlandish access to weapons.

Wrong.

The Murder rte in the UK is virtually the same as it was in 1950 just as the murder rate in the US is virtually the same as it was in 1950

The UK passed the strictest of its gun laws in 1968 and yet the murder rate did not go down

So your entire argument that gun laws in the UK work to lessen murder is BULLSHIT

 

[Skull Pilot]

The murder rate in UK/ Wales in 1950 was .79 per 100,000
It was 4.6 per 100,000 in the USA

The murder rate for 2011 in England/Wales was 1 per 100,000 (Virtually the same even after the strict gun laws were passed)
In the US it was 4.7 per 100,000

So it seems England has an inherently lower murder rate than the US

This implies that it is not guns but demographics and culture

yup, it's those damned darkies... but don't call you racist.

Never mentioned race did I?

Your argument is proven to be BULLSHIT

 

[Markle]

Most countries with centralised govt have such a system because the country is too small to have any other system. I live in Australia and we have six states gvts, plus federal and local govt. Vast majority of us want to get rid of one level of govt. Most vote state. There are only 24 million of us in a land the size of the US. Total waste of money.

Who's defenseless? Australia imported just over 120,000 guns last year and that DOESN'T include those for the police or armed forces. What is different about these guns is that NONE of them are the assault-type used in mass murders such as the US.

I'm more than confident that banning of certain guns will lead to less gun deaths. Problem is, in the US the rate of gun deaths is much higher than other first-world countries that it would take a generation for them to come down to some sort of normal level.

And yet, the violent crime rate is lower in the United States than in Australia. How is that possible?

"Banning" of certain guns will lead to fewer law abiding citizens having the guns and no change in the number of Islamic Terrorists and criminals having the guns. Sounds like a GREAT solution.

 

[Markle]

Tell me the war on drugs has been an abject failure what on earth makes you think your war on guns will succeed?

Because it's worked in every other industrialized nation just fine.

Guns have to be manufactured. stop introducing new ones and the ammo to make them work, all you have are closets full of useless metal.

You do love to ignore the FACT that we have a constitution don't you.

You are also intentionally ignoring the FACT that we have fewer violent crimes than do the nations to which you swear your allegiance. Why?

 

[Markle]

Tell me the war on drugs has been an abject failure what on earth makes you think your war on guns will succeed?

Because it's worked in every other industrialized nation just fine.

Guns have to be manufactured. stop introducing new ones and the ammo to make them work, all you have are closets full of useless metal.

The US police state has banned drugs

Is there any US jurisdiction where "illegal drugs" can not be found?


.

Why do you demand that more kids do drugs?

 

[Markle]

And you have yet to prove the murder and crime rates in those countries were as high or higher than ours historically before any gun bans.

If they weren't and I think they weren't then your entire argument falls apart

Kind of hard to make that point when gun ownership was never that high to start with in most of those countries, but never mind. I know you gun nuts desperately grasp for any alternative theory to guns.

blame race, blame culture, blame their "foreignness" Never, ever, admit that we have outlandish crime rates because we have outlandish access to weapons.

The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.
By James Slack
UPDATED:18:14 EST, 2 July 2009


Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed.


Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.


The figures comes on the day new Home Secretary Alan Johnson makes his first major speech on crime, promising to be tough on loutish behaviour.

The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents, Canada 935, Australia 920 and South Africa 1,609.

Shadow Home Secretary Chris Grayling said: 'This is a damning indictment of this government's comprehensive failure over more than a decade to tackle the deep rooted social problems in our society, and the knock on effect on crime and anti-social behaviour.



Read more: Britain the most violent country in Europe and even worse than South Africa and U.S.

 

[JoeB131]

Guy, you keep passing these numbers off.

BUt the UK had 48 gun murders in 2011.

And we had 11,000.

 

[Contumacious]

Tell me the war on drugs has been an abject failure what on earth makes you think your war on guns will succeed?

Because it's worked in every other industrialized nation just fine.

Guns have to be manufactured. stop introducing new ones and the ammo to make them work, all you have are closets full of useless metal.

The US police state has banned drugs

Is there any US jurisdiction where "illegal drugs" can not be found?


.

Why do you demand that more kids do drugs?

HUH?

WTF?

Where/where did I suggest that.

Before 1914 Americans could freely use drugs.

Show me a news article that the kids were abusing black heroin like they are doing now.

But fedgov enacted the Harrison Narcotic Act of 1914 - six months letter the shit hit the fan.

Since then fedgov has engaged in negative advertising but negative advertising is advertising nevertheless.

Cease and desist the civil war against drug users.

Prohibition did not, does not work.

We no longer have right to judicial review. The impostors will destroy the 4th and 5th Amendment in their desire to bend backwards to accomodate the police state.