Roe v. Wade will be overturned soon, and then abortion will be outlawed in most states...

[pknopp]

A fetus born 8 months into pregnancy as a preemie is not a baby? One of my post collapse ideas is to build torturttarium museums. We will build giant see through female pelvis areas and place people like you in a slightly acidic liquid. After enough time you will force yourself out of it through the vaginal opening. The opening will have sharp knives and other accruments that will slice and dice you. Then you will get the experience that you say others that can not help themselves so enjoy.

Guy, nobody is having abortions at 8 months without a damned good medical reason.

I'm sure a giant fake vagina is as close to female genitalia as you'll ever get.

There is no reason but no, people are not having abortions at 8 months.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Their oversight was Hitler and they were carrying out his orders, so for years, they got away with violating the law. That ended when the war ended and the ones who were caught, met their fate in Nuremberg.

Nuremberg was based on international law, not german law. At the time german law didn't exist.

Nuremburg was a kangaroo court.

Nuremberg was far better for the defendants than what they deserved. The allies would have been within their rights to just shoot most of them. '

That would have been better than the farcical trials.

I disagree. One of the biggest parts of the law is precedent, and precedent was set that if you go outside the laws of war and concepts based on treaties, you will be prosecuted for it.

You mean precedents like prosecutions based on ex post facto laws?

There is only one actual war crime: losing.

 

[satrebil]

Do you not see the error in your logic?

Imagine a couple where the woman gets pregnant. She wants the child, the man doesn't. So he slugs her in the gut a few times and kills it. She has zero legal recourse for her dead child. Or better yet, you can have some lunatic running around assaulting pregnant women and killing their unborn just because that's how he gets his rocks off. Now both her and the child's father have no recourse.

Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages.

So instead of "government having dominion over a woman's body" you're telling women they have full control over their body, but so does everyone else. And if THEY decide to kill her child, tough shit. This is the kind of world you want? Because that's exactly what you're going to get.

I want the kind of world where the contents of my body are none of your fucking business.

"Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages."

The penalties for assault and homicide aren't remotely similar and you damn well know it. 1st degree intentional homicide nearly always carries a life sentence. You're suggesting that a woman or couple could have their unborn child murdered by a 3rd party and be out in 5 years to do it again. Way to tell a woman her "choice" actually means fuck all because any random asshole can take it away from her for the proverbial slap on the wrist. What a wonderful fucking society you propose.

"I want the kind of world where the contents of my body are none of your fucking business."

Well that's just too goddamn bad now isn't it? Government has always regulated "your body" and will continue to do so. It's why drunk driving is illegal. It's why heroin is illegal. It's why you can't sell a kidney. Most of humanity agrees with this. Do you know why? Because we don't want to live in the fucking cesspool your fantasy utopia would be.

And according to your logic, a woman can suffer a miscarriage and face life in prison if a jury disapproves of her lifestyle and decides she's responsible.

 

[satrebil]

Slaves were people. Fetuses aren't.

Then why is someone who assaults a pregnant woman and causes the death of her "fetus" charged with homicide?

Why do you fuckwits NEVER answer this?

 

[martybegan]

Nuremberg was based on international law, not german law. At the time german law didn't exist.

Nuremburg was a kangaroo court.

Nuremberg was far better for the defendants than what they deserved. The allies would have been within their rights to just shoot most of them. '

That would have been better than the farcical trials.

I disagree. One of the biggest parts of the law is precedent, and precedent was set that if you go outside the laws of war and concepts based on treaties, you will be prosecuted for it.

You mean precedents like prosecutions based on ex post facto laws?

There is only one actual war crime: losing.

Ex post facto protections are included in the US constitution, and apply to US citizens.

And some of the charges were not ex post facto, but based on existing law, such as the Kellogg-Briant pact.

 

[Syriusly]

"I personally don't own any slaves, but it's none of my business if my neighbors do."

I don't personally have a uterus, but I will gladly require those with a uterus to do what I tell them to do.

 

[Syriusly]

Do you not see the error in your logic?

Imagine a couple where the woman gets pregnant. She wants the child, the man doesn't. So he slugs her in the gut a few times and kills it. She has zero legal recourse for her dead child. Or better yet, you can have some lunatic running around assaulting pregnant women and killing their unborn just because that's how he gets his rocks off. Now both her and the child's father have no recourse.

Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages.

So instead of "government having dominion over a woman's body" you're telling women they have full control over their body, but so does everyone else. And if THEY decide to kill her child, tough shit. This is the kind of world you want? Because that's exactly what you're going to get.

I want the kind of world where the contents of my body are none of your fucking business.

"Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages."

The penalties for assault and homicide aren't remotely similar and you damn well know it. 1st degree intentional homicide nearly always carries a life sentence. You're suggesting that a woman or couple could have their unborn child murdered by a 3rd party and be out in 5 years to do it again. Way to tell a woman her "choice" actually means fuck all because any random asshole can take it away from her for the proverbial slap on the wrist. What a wonderful fucking society you propose.
.

So lets follow this through logically.

IF as you propose- the fetus is a human, and causing a miscarriage is murder- then obviously every miscarriage will need to be investigated by a coroner to determine the cause of death- and whether the pregnant woman was culpable in anyway for the miscarriage.

We prosecute parents for negligent homicide for the deaths of their child for example leaving them in a car
The father of 1-year-old twins who died Friday after the police said he had left them in a hot car was charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide

What about the woman who goes out drinking and miscarries? What about the woman who has a complicated pregnancy and is more active than her doctor recommends? What about the woman who just miscarries but the coroner doesn't approve of her lifestyle and suspects that could have caused the miscarriage.

If a fetus is legally a human being- then every miscarriage- even the one week old fetus that the woman may not even know she was pregnant with is a possible crime, and needs to be investigated like any other unexplained death of a child.


We can have laws that provide additional penalties if a crime results in the termination of a pregnancy- without having to call it murder.

But then again for a lot of abortion opponents- I don't doubt for a moment that they would be okay with requiring a criminal investigation of every miscarriage- because most of this is about taking control of a woman's body away from her.

 

[satrebil]

Do you not see the error in your logic?

Imagine a couple where the woman gets pregnant. She wants the child, the man doesn't. So he slugs her in the gut a few times and kills it. She has zero legal recourse for her dead child. Or better yet, you can have some lunatic running around assaulting pregnant women and killing their unborn just because that's how he gets his rocks off. Now both her and the child's father have no recourse.

Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages.

So instead of "government having dominion over a woman's body" you're telling women they have full control over their body, but so does everyone else. And if THEY decide to kill her child, tough shit. This is the kind of world you want? Because that's exactly what you're going to get.

I want the kind of world where the contents of my body are none of your fucking business.

"Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages."

The penalties for assault and homicide aren't remotely similar and you damn well know it. 1st degree intentional homicide nearly always carries a life sentence. You're suggesting that a woman or couple could have their unborn child murdered by a 3rd party and be out in 5 years to do it again. Way to tell a woman her "choice" actually means fuck all because any random asshole can take it away from her for the proverbial slap on the wrist. What a wonderful fucking society you propose.
.

So lets follow this through logically.

IF as you propose- the fetus is a human, and causing a miscarriage is murder- then obviously every miscarriage will need to be investigated by a coroner to determine the cause of death- and whether the pregnant woman was culpable in anyway for the miscarriage.

We prosecute parents for negligent homicide for the deaths of their child for example leaving them in a car
The father of 1-year-old twins who died Friday after the police said he had left them in a hot car was charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide

What about the woman who goes out drinking and miscarries? What about the woman who has a complicated pregnancy and is more active than her doctor recommends? What about the woman who just miscarries but the coroner doesn't approve of her lifestyle and suspects that could have caused the miscarriage.

If a fetus is legally a human being- then every miscarriage- even the one week old fetus that the woman may not even know she was pregnant with is a possible crime, and needs to be investigated like any other unexplained death of a child.


We can have laws that provide additional penalties if a crime results in the termination of a pregnancy- without having to call it murder.

But then again for a lot of abortion opponents- I don't doubt for a moment that they would be okay with requiring a criminal investigation of every miscarriage- because most of this is about taking control of a woman's body away from her.

You're ignoring the core requirement of virtually every criminal proceeding: Intent.

 

[Syriusly]

Do you not see the error in your logic?

Imagine a couple where the woman gets pregnant. She wants the child, the man doesn't. So he slugs her in the gut a few times and kills it. She has zero legal recourse for her dead child. Or better yet, you can have some lunatic running around assaulting pregnant women and killing their unborn just because that's how he gets his rocks off. Now both her and the child's father have no recourse.

Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages.

So instead of "government having dominion over a woman's body" you're telling women they have full control over their body, but so does everyone else. And if THEY decide to kill her child, tough shit. This is the kind of world you want? Because that's exactly what you're going to get.

I want the kind of world where the contents of my body are none of your fucking business.

"Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages."

The penalties for assault and homicide aren't remotely similar and you damn well know it. 1st degree intentional homicide nearly always carries a life sentence. You're suggesting that a woman or couple could have their unborn child murdered by a 3rd party and be out in 5 years to do it again. Way to tell a woman her "choice" actually means fuck all because any random asshole can take it away from her for the proverbial slap on the wrist. What a wonderful fucking society you propose.
.

So lets follow this through logically.

IF as you propose- the fetus is a human, and causing a miscarriage is murder- then obviously every miscarriage will need to be investigated by a coroner to determine the cause of death- and whether the pregnant woman was culpable in anyway for the miscarriage.

We prosecute parents for negligent homicide for the deaths of their child for example leaving them in a car
The father of 1-year-old twins who died Friday after the police said he had left them in a hot car was charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide

What about the woman who goes out drinking and miscarries? What about the woman who has a complicated pregnancy and is more active than her doctor recommends? What about the woman who just miscarries but the coroner doesn't approve of her lifestyle and suspects that could have caused the miscarriage.

If a fetus is legally a human being- then every miscarriage- even the one week old fetus that the woman may not even know she was pregnant with is a possible crime, and needs to be investigated like any other unexplained death of a child.


We can have laws that provide additional penalties if a crime results in the termination of a pregnancy- without having to call it murder.

But then again for a lot of abortion opponents- I don't doubt for a moment that they would be okay with requiring a criminal investigation of every miscarriage- because most of this is about taking control of a woman's body away from her.

You're ignoring the core requirement of virtually every criminal proceeding: Intent.

You are ignoring virtually everything I posted.
The father of 1-year-old twins who died Friday after the police said he had left them in a hot car was charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide

Not one word about intent when that father was charged.

 

[satrebil]

Do you not see the error in your logic?

Imagine a couple where the woman gets pregnant. She wants the child, the man doesn't. So he slugs her in the gut a few times and kills it. She has zero legal recourse for her dead child. Or better yet, you can have some lunatic running around assaulting pregnant women and killing their unborn just because that's how he gets his rocks off. Now both her and the child's father have no recourse.

Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages.

So instead of "government having dominion over a woman's body" you're telling women they have full control over their body, but so does everyone else. And if THEY decide to kill her child, tough shit. This is the kind of world you want? Because that's exactly what you're going to get.

I want the kind of world where the contents of my body are none of your fucking business.

"Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages."

The penalties for assault and homicide aren't remotely similar and you damn well know it. 1st degree intentional homicide nearly always carries a life sentence. You're suggesting that a woman or couple could have their unborn child murdered by a 3rd party and be out in 5 years to do it again. Way to tell a woman her "choice" actually means fuck all because any random asshole can take it away from her for the proverbial slap on the wrist. What a wonderful fucking society you propose.
.

So lets follow this through logically.

IF as you propose- the fetus is a human, and causing a miscarriage is murder- then obviously every miscarriage will need to be investigated by a coroner to determine the cause of death- and whether the pregnant woman was culpable in anyway for the miscarriage.

We prosecute parents for negligent homicide for the deaths of their child for example leaving them in a car
The father of 1-year-old twins who died Friday after the police said he had left them in a hot car was charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide

What about the woman who goes out drinking and miscarries? What about the woman who has a complicated pregnancy and is more active than her doctor recommends? What about the woman who just miscarries but the coroner doesn't approve of her lifestyle and suspects that could have caused the miscarriage.

If a fetus is legally a human being- then every miscarriage- even the one week old fetus that the woman may not even know she was pregnant with is a possible crime, and needs to be investigated like any other unexplained death of a child.


We can have laws that provide additional penalties if a crime results in the termination of a pregnancy- without having to call it murder.

But then again for a lot of abortion opponents- I don't doubt for a moment that they would be okay with requiring a criminal investigation of every miscarriage- because most of this is about taking control of a woman's body away from her.

You're ignoring the core requirement of virtually every criminal proceeding: Intent.

You are ignoring virtually everything I posted.
The father of 1-year-old twins who died Friday after the police said he had left them in a hot car was charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide

Not one word about intent when that father was charged.

Because you're comparing apples and bowling balls. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that you don't leave children in a hot car. While it was not his intent to kill his children, he was criminally negligent - hence the associated charge and the charge of MANSLAUGHTER, not murder.

Same goes for your "1 week fetus" claim. You said it yourself: the woman probably wouldn't even know she was pregnant. We do not hold people criminally responsible in such scenarios.

The conclusion of your post is just feminazi ranting to try and justify killing your own offspring and isn't worth dignifying with a response.

 

[Syriusly]

Slaves were people. Fetuses aren't.

Then why is someone who assaults a pregnant woman and causes the death of her "fetus" charged with homicide?

Why do you fuckwits NEVER answer this?

Because the way the law is written is conflicted.

Virtually every state law that makes the death of a fetus homicide or manslaughter- also include provisions that exclude abortion from the law.

All of those laws are internally conflicted.

 

[satrebil]

Slaves were people. Fetuses aren't.

Then why is someone who assaults a pregnant woman and causes the death of her "fetus" charged with homicide?

Why do you fuckwits NEVER answer this?

Because the way the law is written is conflicted.

Virtually every state law that makes the death of a fetus homicide or manslaughter- also include provisions that exclude abortion from the law.

All of those laws are internally conflicted.

You're damn right it's conflicted.

Either a fetus is a person or it is not. If it is a person then it deserves equal protection under the law as guaranteed by the 14th Amendment. If it's not a person, then absolutely NOBODY should be held accountable for terminating one.

Make your choice.

 

[Syriusly]

Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages.
I want the kind of world where the contents of my body are none of your fucking business.

"Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages."

The penalties for assault and homicide aren't remotely similar and you damn well know it. 1st degree intentional homicide nearly always carries a life sentence. You're suggesting that a woman or couple could have their unborn child murdered by a 3rd party and be out in 5 years to do it again. Way to tell a woman her "choice" actually means fuck all because any random asshole can take it away from her for the proverbial slap on the wrist. What a wonderful fucking society you propose.
.

So lets follow this through logically.

IF as you propose- the fetus is a human, and causing a miscarriage is murder- then obviously every miscarriage will need to be investigated by a coroner to determine the cause of death- and whether the pregnant woman was culpable in anyway for the miscarriage.

We prosecute parents for negligent homicide for the deaths of their child for example leaving them in a car
The father of 1-year-old twins who died Friday after the police said he had left them in a hot car was charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide

What about the woman who goes out drinking and miscarries? What about the woman who has a complicated pregnancy and is more active than her doctor recommends? What about the woman who just miscarries but the coroner doesn't approve of her lifestyle and suspects that could have caused the miscarriage.

If a fetus is legally a human being- then every miscarriage- even the one week old fetus that the woman may not even know she was pregnant with is a possible crime, and needs to be investigated like any other unexplained death of a child.


We can have laws that provide additional penalties if a crime results in the termination of a pregnancy- without having to call it murder.

But then again for a lot of abortion opponents- I don't doubt for a moment that they would be okay with requiring a criminal investigation of every miscarriage- because most of this is about taking control of a woman's body away from her.

You're ignoring the core requirement of virtually every criminal proceeding: Intent.

You are ignoring virtually everything I posted.
The father of 1-year-old twins who died Friday after the police said he had left them in a hot car was charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide

Not one word about intent when that father was charged.

Because you're comparing apples and bowling balls. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that you don't leave children in a hot car. While it was not his intent to kill his children, he was criminally negligent - hence the associated charge and the charge of MANSLAUGHTER, not murder.

Same goes for your "1 week fetus" claim. You said it yourself: the woman probably wouldn't even know she was pregnant. We do not hold people criminally responsible in such scenarios.

The conclusion of your post is just feminazi ranting to try and justify killing your own offspring and isn't worth dignifying with a response.

Hey you were the one who lied and said that intent was 'a core requirement'- and I pointed out that the exact example I posted showed intent is not necessary.

Manslaughter Charge Dropped Against Alabama Woman Who Was Shot While Pregnant
This is the case of a pregnant woman who was shot during a fight with another woman- and she was charged with manslaughter by the government- because she should have known not to start the fight.

People v. Jorgensen
Here a pregnant woman was convicted of manslaughter when she accidentally caused a vehicle accident.

Women could get up to 30 years in prison for having a miscarriage under Georgia's harsh new abortion law

Jordan explained how a 1998 Georgia court case Hillman vs. State, prosecutors charged an 18-year old woman who shot herself in her abdomen while pregnant with attempting to "produce a miscarriage" — but a court threw out the indictment partly because they didn't want to supersede the legislature, which had then "refused to criminalize a pregnant woman's acts in securing an illegal abortion."

At the time, the Court of Appeals explicitly said that changing the law to prosecute women who performed their own abortions, which HB 481 does by defining fetuses as people, could warrant "a criminal indictment for virtually any perceived self-destructive behavior during her pregnancy which could cause a late-term miscarriage, to wit: smoking or drinking heavily; using illegal drugs or abusing legal medications; driving while under the influence of drugs or alcohol; or any other dangerous or reckless conduct."

 

[Syriusly]

Slaves were people. Fetuses aren't.

Then why is someone who assaults a pregnant woman and causes the death of her "fetus" charged with homicide?

Why do you fuckwits NEVER answer this?

Because the way the law is written is conflicted.

Virtually every state law that makes the death of a fetus homicide or manslaughter- also include provisions that exclude abortion from the law.

All of those laws are internally conflicted.

You're damn right it's conflicted.

Either a fetus is a person or it is not. If it is a person then it deserves equal protection under the law as guaranteed by the 14th Amendment. If it's not a person, then absolutely NOBODY should be held accountable for terminating one.

Make your choice.

I know your choice- every abortion is murder- and you think that the one quarter of American women who have had abortions should go to prison for murder.

And that every miscarriage must be investigated by the coroner to decide if the pregnant woman was culpable for the miscarriage and if so, she must be prosecuted for manslaughter or negligent homicide.

My choice? A fetus is potential life- and we can absolutely criminalize any criminal act that results in the termination of a pregnancy- and provide additional penalties for that act.

But I don't think that American women should live in fear each time they miscarry that their doctor has to report them to the coroner for possible negligent homicide charges.

 

[satrebil]

"Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages."

The penalties for assault and homicide aren't remotely similar and you damn well know it. 1st degree intentional homicide nearly always carries a life sentence. You're suggesting that a woman or couple could have their unborn child murdered by a 3rd party and be out in 5 years to do it again. Way to tell a woman her "choice" actually means fuck all because any random asshole can take it away from her for the proverbial slap on the wrist. What a wonderful fucking society you propose.
.

So lets follow this through logically.

IF as you propose- the fetus is a human, and causing a miscarriage is murder- then obviously every miscarriage will need to be investigated by a coroner to determine the cause of death- and whether the pregnant woman was culpable in anyway for the miscarriage.

We prosecute parents for negligent homicide for the deaths of their child for example leaving them in a car
The father of 1-year-old twins who died Friday after the police said he had left them in a hot car was charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide

What about the woman who goes out drinking and miscarries? What about the woman who has a complicated pregnancy and is more active than her doctor recommends? What about the woman who just miscarries but the coroner doesn't approve of her lifestyle and suspects that could have caused the miscarriage.

If a fetus is legally a human being- then every miscarriage- even the one week old fetus that the woman may not even know she was pregnant with is a possible crime, and needs to be investigated like any other unexplained death of a child.


We can have laws that provide additional penalties if a crime results in the termination of a pregnancy- without having to call it murder.

But then again for a lot of abortion opponents- I don't doubt for a moment that they would be okay with requiring a criminal investigation of every miscarriage- because most of this is about taking control of a woman's body away from her.

You're ignoring the core requirement of virtually every criminal proceeding: Intent.

You are ignoring virtually everything I posted.
The father of 1-year-old twins who died Friday after the police said he had left them in a hot car was charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide

Not one word about intent when that father was charged.

Because you're comparing apples and bowling balls. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that you don't leave children in a hot car. While it was not his intent to kill his children, he was criminally negligent - hence the associated charge and the charge of MANSLAUGHTER, not murder.

Same goes for your "1 week fetus" claim. You said it yourself: the woman probably wouldn't even know she was pregnant. We do not hold people criminally responsible in such scenarios.

The conclusion of your post is just feminazi ranting to try and justify killing your own offspring and isn't worth dignifying with a response.

Hey you were the one who lied and said that intent was 'a core requirement'- and I pointed out that the exact example I posted showed intent is not necessary.

Manslaughter Charge Dropped Against Alabama Woman Who Was Shot While Pregnant
This is the case of a pregnant woman who was shot during a fight with another woman- and she was charged with manslaughter by the government- because she should have known not to start the fight.

People v. Jorgensen
Here a pregnant woman was convicted of manslaughter when she accidentally caused a vehicle accident.

Women could get up to 30 years in prison for having a miscarriage under Georgia's harsh new abortion law

Jordan explained how a 1998 Georgia court case Hillman vs. State, prosecutors charged an 18-year old woman who shot herself in her abdomen while pregnant with attempting to "produce a miscarriage" — but a court threw out the indictment partly because they didn't want to supersede the legislature, which had then "refused to criminalize a pregnant woman's acts in securing an illegal abortion."

At the time, the Court of Appeals explicitly said that changing the law to prosecute women who performed their own abortions, which HB 481 does by defining fetuses as people, could warrant "a criminal indictment for virtually any perceived self-destructive behavior during her pregnancy which could cause a late-term miscarriage, to wit: smoking or drinking heavily; using illegal drugs or abusing legal medications; driving while under the influence of drugs or alcohol; or any other dangerous or reckless conduct."

Hey you were the one who lied and said that intent was 'a core requirement'

Oh really?

You're ignoring the core requirement of virtually every criminal proceeding: Intent.

Definition of virtually

1: almost entirely : NEARLY
2: for all practical purposes

Read the entirety of my text next time, not just the parts you like.

 

[pknopp]

Slaves were people. Fetuses aren't.

Then why is someone who assaults a pregnant woman and causes the death of her "fetus" charged with homicide?

Why do you fuckwits NEVER answer this?

Because the way the law is written is conflicted.

Virtually every state law that makes the death of a fetus homicide or manslaughter- also include provisions that exclude abortion from the law.

All of those laws are internally conflicted.

You're damn right it's conflicted.

Either a fetus is a person or it is not. If it is a person then it deserves equal protection under the law as guaranteed by the 14th Amendment. If it's not a person, then absolutely NOBODY should be held accountable for terminating one.

Make your choice.

I know your choice- every abortion is murder- and you think that the one quarter of American women who have had abortions should go to prison for murder.

And that every miscarriage must be investigated by the coroner to decide if the pregnant woman was culpable for the miscarriage and if so, she must be prosecuted for manslaughter or negligent homicide.

My choice? A fetus is potential life- and we can absolutely criminalize any criminal act that results in the termination of a pregnancy- and provide additional penalties for that act.

But I don't think that American women should live in fear each time they miscarry that their doctor has to report them to the coroner for possible negligent homicide charges.

The fetus is without question a life. That is a scientific fact. The question is when does it become a human.

 

[satrebil]

I know your choice- every abortion is murder- and you think that the one quarter of American women who have had abortions should go to prison for murder.

Wrong.

And that every miscarriage must be investigated by the coroner to decide if the pregnant woman was culpable for the miscarriage and if so, she must be prosecuted for manslaughter or negligent homicide.

Wrong.

My choice? A fetus is potential life

Wrong. A fetus is has it's own unique DNA code. According to science, that IS life.

and we can absolutely criminalize any criminal act that results in the termination of a pregnancy- and provide additional penalties for that act.

So you don't believe in equal protection under the law. Got it.

But I don't think that American women should live in fear each time they miscarry that their doctor has to report them to the coroner for possible negligent homicide charges.

I don't know what kind of doctors you visit, but they tend to be pretty smart people. The fact that you think they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a naturally occurring miscarriage and an induced one is laughable. You sound like the type of person who's afraid to take their child to the hospital if they fall down the stairs and break their arm out of fear they'll accuse you of child abuse.

 

[satrebil]

Slaves were people. Fetuses aren't.

Then why is someone who assaults a pregnant woman and causes the death of her "fetus" charged with homicide?

Why do you fuckwits NEVER answer this?

Because the way the law is written is conflicted.

Virtually every state law that makes the death of a fetus homicide or manslaughter- also include provisions that exclude abortion from the law.

All of those laws are internally conflicted.

You're damn right it's conflicted.

Either a fetus is a person or it is not. If it is a person then it deserves equal protection under the law as guaranteed by the 14th Amendment. If it's not a person, then absolutely NOBODY should be held accountable for terminating one.

Make your choice.

I know your choice- every abortion is murder- and you think that the one quarter of American women who have had abortions should go to prison for murder.

And that every miscarriage must be investigated by the coroner to decide if the pregnant woman was culpable for the miscarriage and if so, she must be prosecuted for manslaughter or negligent homicide.

My choice? A fetus is potential life- and we can absolutely criminalize any criminal act that results in the termination of a pregnancy- and provide additional penalties for that act.

But I don't think that American women should live in fear each time they miscarry that their doctor has to report them to the coroner for possible negligent homicide charges.

The fetus is without question a life. That is a scientific fact. The question is when does it become a human.

Conception. Anything else would require a plethora of criteria that establishes one as "human" and opens pandoras box to all kinds of eugenics.

 

[Syriusly]

So lets follow this through logically.

IF as you propose- the fetus is a human, and causing a miscarriage is murder- then obviously every miscarriage will need to be investigated by a coroner to determine the cause of death- and whether the pregnant woman was culpable in anyway for the miscarriage.

We prosecute parents for negligent homicide for the deaths of their child for example leaving them in a car
The father of 1-year-old twins who died Friday after the police said he had left them in a hot car was charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide

What about the woman who goes out drinking and miscarries? What about the woman who has a complicated pregnancy and is more active than her doctor recommends? What about the woman who just miscarries but the coroner doesn't approve of her lifestyle and suspects that could have caused the miscarriage.

If a fetus is legally a human being- then every miscarriage- even the one week old fetus that the woman may not even know she was pregnant with is a possible crime, and needs to be investigated like any other unexplained death of a child.


We can have laws that provide additional penalties if a crime results in the termination of a pregnancy- without having to call it murder.

But then again for a lot of abortion opponents- I don't doubt for a moment that they would be okay with requiring a criminal investigation of every miscarriage- because most of this is about taking control of a woman's body away from her.

You're ignoring the core requirement of virtually every criminal proceeding: Intent.

You are ignoring virtually everything I posted.
The father of 1-year-old twins who died Friday after the police said he had left them in a hot car was charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide

Not one word about intent when that father was charged.

Because you're comparing apples and bowling balls. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that you don't leave children in a hot car. While it was not his intent to kill his children, he was criminally negligent - hence the associated charge and the charge of MANSLAUGHTER, not murder.

Same goes for your "1 week fetus" claim. You said it yourself: the woman probably wouldn't even know she was pregnant. We do not hold people criminally responsible in such scenarios.

The conclusion of your post is just feminazi ranting to try and justify killing your own offspring and isn't worth dignifying with a response.

Hey you were the one who lied and said that intent was 'a core requirement'- and I pointed out that the exact example I posted showed intent is not necessary.

Manslaughter Charge Dropped Against Alabama Woman Who Was Shot While Pregnant
This is the case of a pregnant woman who was shot during a fight with another woman- and she was charged with manslaughter by the government- because she should have known not to start the fight.

People v. Jorgensen
Here a pregnant woman was convicted of manslaughter when she accidentally caused a vehicle accident.

Women could get up to 30 years in prison for having a miscarriage under Georgia's harsh new abortion law

Jordan explained how a 1998 Georgia court case Hillman vs. State, prosecutors charged an 18-year old woman who shot herself in her abdomen while pregnant with attempting to "produce a miscarriage" — but a court threw out the indictment partly because they didn't want to supersede the legislature, which had then "refused to criminalize a pregnant woman's acts in securing an illegal abortion."

At the time, the Court of Appeals explicitly said that changing the law to prosecute women who performed their own abortions, which HB 481 does by defining fetuses as people, could warrant "a criminal indictment for virtually any perceived self-destructive behavior during her pregnancy which could cause a late-term miscarriage, to wit: smoking or drinking heavily; using illegal drugs or abusing legal medications; driving while under the influence of drugs or alcohol; or any other dangerous or reckless conduct."

Hey you were the one who lied and said that intent was 'a core requirement'

Oh really?

You're ignoring the core requirement of virtually every criminal proceeding: Intent.

Definition of virtually

1: almost entirely : NEARLY
2: for all practical purposes

Read the entirety of my text next time, not just the parts you like.

That might have been relevant if:
a) the example I provided in my post specifically didn't require intent
b) the situation I was discussing- charging the woman for manslaughter or negligent homicide if she miscarries also does not require intent.

You posted that I was ignoring the 'core requirement of virtually every criminal proceeding'- but you were ignoring that every instance I was discussing has not requirement of intent.

Criminally negligent homicide never has an intent.

 

[Syriusly]

I know your choice- every abortion is murder- and you think that the one quarter of American women who have had abortions should go to prison for murder.

Wrong.

And that every miscarriage must be investigated by the coroner to decide if the pregnant woman was culpable for the miscarriage and if so, she must be prosecuted for manslaughter or negligent homicide.

Wrong.

My choice? A fetus is potential life

Wrong. A fetus is has it's own unique DNA code. According to science, that IS life.
.

Really? Where does 'science' say that?

Fascinating really that 'definition' of life.

For example- identical twins have identical DNA- so by your definition the twins would only be one life.

And Kobe Bryant would still be considered a life- since even after his death he would have unique DNA.

You didn't bother to say why you don't think that women who have committed abortions- which you consider murder- shouldn't go to prison for murder.

You didn't bother to say why you don't think that every miscarriage should be treated by a coroner the exact same way as every other unexplained death of a child.