Russian agreement with Ukraine Putin IS allowed 25,000 troops in Crimea

[depotoo]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v_YDlv4bW0o
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bbUt6SKXEiE

Oh and as we are discussing this horrible naked aggressive invasion in Crimea take a look at this picture.

What caught my eye was the bottom right hand corner. We're being handed a pant load.

Simply because it is being done relatively passively does not mean Ukrainians don't feel a threat. Personally, if I living in America ,suddenly saw thousands of troops from Mexico cross our border, even if passively, I would feel a threat from such action. And even more so if they were to enter one of our government buildings and they hoisted their flag to fly from it. It may be true they are authorized to have so many troops there, but for them to have not ever done such before, I would question their motive.
Note one of those videos comes from rt, not exactly a biased source.

 

[tinydancer]

Oh and as we are discussing this horrible naked aggressive invasion in Crimea take a look at this picture.

What caught my eye was the bottom right hand corner. We're being handed a pant load.

I don't recall anyone saying it was an aggressive invasion by Russia other than Kerry saying it.
It was a peaceful invasion.
The Ukrainian military peaceful put down their arms.
So far that I have heard the Ukrainian war ships have not come back to base to peacefully lay down their arms and are still at sea.

Oh don't think that Kerry has been alone in this. My idiotic Foreign Minister has been shooting off his mouth too. He's turned down the rhetoric but he's still chest thumping.

I've been a Conservative up here for decades and I tell you I am so so angry at my government buying into another "we have to save the world" story I'm ready to eat dirt.

If the Ukraine wants to join the EU well than the EU can bail them out financially.

Sorries. I am really pissed that now it appears we're going to be part of the EU bailout too.

 

[tinydancer]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v_YDlv4bW0o
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bbUt6SKXEiE

Oh and as we are discussing this horrible naked aggressive invasion in Crimea take a look at this picture.

What caught my eye was the bottom right hand corner. We're being handed a pant load.

Simply because it is being done relatively passively does not mean Ukrainians don't feel a threat. Personally, if I living in America ,suddenly saw thousands of troops from Mexico cross our border, even if passively, I would feel a threat from such action. And even more so if they were to enter one of our government buildings and they hoisted their flag to fly from it. It may be true they are authorized to have so many troops there, but for them to have not ever done such before, I would question their motive.
Note one of those videos comes from rt, not exactly a biased source.

Crimeans are happy that the troops are there. You do know it is a major Russian naval base and there have been huge numbers of troops there for years on end.

BTW there are 16,000 there now, but they are allowed up to 25,000. And you always have to remember that demographically 60% of the population are ethnic Russians. You have thousands of military personnel that are Russian and you have thousands of Chechens there as well.

And throw the seriously anti Russian new government in Kiev, the Crimeans are quite happy that the troops are there.

 

[depotoo]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v_YDlv4bW0o
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bbUt6SKXEiE

Oh and as we are discussing this horrible naked aggressive invasion in Crimea take a look at this picture.

What caught my eye was the bottom right hand corner. We're being handed a pant load.

Simply because it is being done relatively passively does not mean Ukrainians don't feel a threat. Personally, if I living in America ,suddenly saw thousands of troops from Mexico cross our border, even if passively, I would feel a threat from such action. And even more so if they were to enter one of our government buildings and they hoisted their flag to fly from it. It may be true they are authorized to have so many troops there, but for them to have not ever done such before, I would question their motive.
Note one of those videos comes from rt, not exactly a biased source.

Crimeans are happy that the troops are there. You do know it is a major Russian naval base and there have been huge numbers of troops there for years on end.

BTW there are 16,000 there now, but they are allowed up to 25,000. And you always have to remember that demographically 60% of the population are ethnic Russians. You have thousands of military personnel that are Russian and you have thousands of Chechens there as well.

And throw the seriously anti Russian new government in Kiev, the Crimeans are quite happy that the troops are there.

Personally I think it is screwed. If those Crimeans wish to live under Russian rule, then let them defect. Ukraine is a democratically elected republic, whether they like it or not. Either defect or democratically vote for change at the polls.

 

[Rocko]

Well, well, well. What game is being run down on us again? One more time I will put forth the disclaimer that I am no fan of Russia or Putin.

But I am one hell of a fan of the truth. And I am sick to death of being lied to by Western governments including my conservative one. And most of our freaking media.

We got involved in Egypt with our leaders telling us the Muslim Brotherhood was a secular organization who was pro democracy.

We got involved in Libya and that country has turned into a dogs breakfast with militias running the place.

We almost got involved big time in Syria before it was discovered that these so called rebels were paid mercenaries and some had ties to AQ.

Now this. A 1997 Ukraine - Russia agreement that allows Putin up to 25,000 troops in Crimea.

Don't forget there is a major naval base there.

CIA reportedly says Russia sees treaty as justifying Ukraine moves

[Updated, 8 p.m., March 3: WASHINGTON — CIA director John Brennan told a senior lawmaker Monday that a 1997 treaty between Russia and Ukraine allows up to 25,000 Russia troops in the vital Crimea region, so Russia may not consider its recent troop movements to be an invasion, U.S. officials said.

The number of Russian troops that have surged into Ukraine in recent days remains well below that threshold, Brennan said, according to U.S. officials who declined to be named in describing private discussions and declined to name the legislator.

Though Brennan disagrees that the treaty justifies Russia’s incursion, he urged a cautious approach, the officials said.

Administration officials have said Moscow violated the treaty, which requires the Russian navy, which bases its Black Sea fleet in Sevastopol, to coordinate all military movements on the Crimean peninsula with Ukraine.

CIA reportedly says Russia sees treaty as justifying Ukraine moves - latimes.com

If this and the opposition being Neo nazis are true then why is Obama not saying that's the reason for our inaction?

 

[tinydancer]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v_YDlv4bW0o
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bbUt6SKXEiE



Simply because it is being done relatively passively does not mean Ukrainians don't feel a threat. Personally, if I living in America ,suddenly saw thousands of troops from Mexico cross our border, even if passively, I would feel a threat from such action. And even more so if they were to enter one of our government buildings and they hoisted their flag to fly from it. It may be true they are authorized to have so many troops there, but for them to have not ever done such before, I would question their motive.
Note one of those videos comes from rt, not exactly a biased source.

Crimeans are happy that the troops are there. You do know it is a major Russian naval base and there have been huge numbers of troops there for years on end.

BTW there are 16,000 there now, but they are allowed up to 25,000. And you always have to remember that demographically 60% of the population are ethnic Russians. You have thousands of military personnel that are Russian and you have thousands of Chechens there as well.

And throw the seriously anti Russian new government in Kiev, the Crimeans are quite happy that the troops are there.

Personally I think it is screwed. If those Crimeans wish to live under Russian rule, then let them defect. Ukraine is a democratically elected republic, whether they like it or not. Either defect or democratically vote for change at the polls.

Crimea is already an autonomous state. And they have scheduled a new referendum to reinforce their autonomy. They have their own government within Ukraine's sphere.

BUT and it's a big but one of the major issues is that members of the Svoboda party have been given cabinet posts in the new transitional government.

One of their party platforms has been to strip Crimea of her autonomy. I don't blame Crimea for wondering how they will be treated.

By the way, I'm of Ukrainian descent and I have been following this closely for some time.

 

[tinydancer]

Well, well, well. What game is being run down on us again? One more time I will put forth the disclaimer that I am no fan of Russia or Putin.

But I am one hell of a fan of the truth. And I am sick to death of being lied to by Western governments including my conservative one. And most of our freaking media.

We got involved in Egypt with our leaders telling us the Muslim Brotherhood was a secular organization who was pro democracy.

We got involved in Libya and that country has turned into a dogs breakfast with militias running the place.

We almost got involved big time in Syria before it was discovered that these so called rebels were paid mercenaries and some had ties to AQ.

Now this. A 1997 Ukraine - Russia agreement that allows Putin up to 25,000 troops in Crimea.

Don't forget there is a major naval base there.

CIA reportedly says Russia sees treaty as justifying Ukraine moves

[Updated, 8 p.m., March 3: WASHINGTON — CIA director John Brennan told a senior lawmaker Monday that a 1997 treaty between Russia and Ukraine allows up to 25,000 Russia troops in the vital Crimea region, so Russia may not consider its recent troop movements to be an invasion, U.S. officials said.

The number of Russian troops that have surged into Ukraine in recent days remains well below that threshold, Brennan said, according to U.S. officials who declined to be named in describing private discussions and declined to name the legislator.

Though Brennan disagrees that the treaty justifies Russia’s incursion, he urged a cautious approach, the officials said.

Administration officials have said Moscow violated the treaty, which requires the Russian navy, which bases its Black Sea fleet in Sevastopol, to coordinate all military movements on the Crimean peninsula with Ukraine.

CIA reportedly says Russia sees treaty as justifying Ukraine moves - latimes.com

If this and the opposition being Neo nazis are true then why is Obama not saying that's the reason for our inaction?

It's true about the ultra right wing party. Svoboda. YIKES. I'm in the middle of firing off emails to my government and media up in Canada because my conservatives are backing this new government in Kiev.

This is freaking crazy.

 

[Rocko]

Well, well, well. What game is being run down on us again? One more time I will put forth the disclaimer that I am no fan of Russia or Putin.

But I am one hell of a fan of the truth. And I am sick to death of being lied to by Western governments including my conservative one. And most of our freaking media.

We got involved in Egypt with our leaders telling us the Muslim Brotherhood was a secular organization who was pro democracy.

We got involved in Libya and that country has turned into a dogs breakfast with militias running the place.

We almost got involved big time in Syria before it was discovered that these so called rebels were paid mercenaries and some had ties to AQ.

Now this. A 1997 Ukraine - Russia agreement that allows Putin up to 25,000 troops in Crimea.

Don't forget there is a major naval base there.

CIA reportedly says Russia sees treaty as justifying Ukraine moves

[Updated, 8 p.m., March 3: WASHINGTON — CIA director John Brennan told a senior lawmaker Monday that a 1997 treaty between Russia and Ukraine allows up to 25,000 Russia troops in the vital Crimea region, so Russia may not consider its recent troop movements to be an invasion, U.S. officials said.

The number of Russian troops that have surged into Ukraine in recent days remains well below that threshold, Brennan said, according to U.S. officials who declined to be named in describing private discussions and declined to name the legislator.

Though Brennan disagrees that the treaty justifies Russia’s incursion, he urged a cautious approach, the officials said.

Administration officials have said Moscow violated the treaty, which requires the Russian navy, which bases its Black Sea fleet in Sevastopol, to coordinate all military movements on the Crimean peninsula with Ukraine.

CIA reportedly says Russia sees treaty as justifying Ukraine moves - latimes.com

If this and the opposition being Neo nazis are true then why is Obama not saying that's the reason for our inaction?

It's true about the ultra right wing party. Svoboda. YIKES. I'm in the middle of firing off emails to my government and media up in Canada because my conservatives are backing this new government in Kiev.

This is freaking crazy.

I'm not saying it's not true, I'm just wondering why Obama isn't backing Russia.

 

[depotoo]

Crimeans are happy that the troops are there. You do know it is a major Russian naval base and there have been huge numbers of troops there for years on end.

BTW there are 16,000 there now, but they are allowed up to 25,000. And you always have to remember that demographically 60% of the population are ethnic Russians. You have thousands of military personnel that are Russian and you have thousands of Chechens there as well.

And throw the seriously anti Russian new government in Kiev, the Crimeans are quite happy that the troops are there.

Personally I think it is screwed. If those Crimeans wish to live under Russian rule, then let them defect. Ukraine is a democratically elected republic, whether they like it or not. Either defect or democratically vote for change at the polls.

Crimea is already an autonomous state. And they have scheduled a new referendum to reinforce their autonomy. They have their own government within Ukraine's sphere.

BUT and it's a big but one of the major issues is that members of the Svoboda party have been given cabinet posts in the new transitional government.

One of their party platforms has been to strip Crimea of her autonomy. I don't blame Crimea for wondering how they will be treated.

By the way, I'm of Ukrainian descent and I have been following this closely for some time.

Even though autonomous, since 99 they have still had to live within the constraints of the Ukranian parliments approval.

Sort of like, my living in Florida, even though we may not like living with many of Obama's policies-if those policies fall within his constitutional authority, then too bad for us. We can then either leave the US or work within the system to bring about change.

 

[tinydancer]

Personally I think it is screwed. If those Crimeans wish to live under Russian rule, then let them defect. Ukraine is a democratically elected republic, whether they like it or not. Either defect or democratically vote for change at the polls.

Crimea is already an autonomous state. And they have scheduled a new referendum to reinforce their autonomy. They have their own government within Ukraine's sphere.

BUT and it's a big but one of the major issues is that members of the Svoboda party have been given cabinet posts in the new transitional government.

One of their party platforms has been to strip Crimea of her autonomy. I don't blame Crimea for wondering how they will be treated.

By the way, I'm of Ukrainian descent and I have been following this closely for some time.

Even though autonomous, since 99 they have still had to live within the constraints of the Ukranian parliments approval.

Sort of like, my living in Florida, even though we may not like living with many of Obama's policies-if those policies fall within his constitutional authority, then too bad for us. We can then either leave the US or work within the system to bring about change.

You have states rights. Just like we have provincial rights. What the Svoboda platform is all about is stripping them of their states rights.

 

[depotoo]

If this and the opposition being Neo nazis are true then why is Obama not saying that's the reason for our inaction?

It's true about the ultra right wing party. Svoboda. YIKES. I'm in the middle of firing off emails to my government and media up in Canada because my conservatives are backing this new government in Kiev.

This is freaking crazy.

I'm not saying it's not true, I'm just wondering why Obama isn't backing Russia.

From what I can gather, there are a few extremists in each main party/player and the players of each side are good propagandists. Where the total truth lies is it hard to tell, but the history of Russia as well as its well known propaganda campaigns and lack of real freedom of the press and liberty, being on the outside looking in, I am tempted to not take Russia or its information campaigns as being truth filled.

 

[peach174]

If this and the opposition being Neo nazis are true then why is Obama not saying that's the reason for our inaction?

It's true about the ultra right wing party. Svoboda. YIKES. I'm in the middle of firing off emails to my government and media up in Canada because my conservatives are backing this new government in Kiev.

This is freaking crazy.

I'm not saying it's not true, I'm just wondering why Obama isn't backing Russia.

Because Russia needs that port.
It is the only port that does not freeze up during the winter.
They need that port for importing and exporting.
If they get complete control of it, they can make a lot of money which they really need right now.
If they get strong economically they can then rise and become the super power again that they are working towards.
We don't need Russia and China to become super powers and become threats to us again.
This is why Obama is not backing Russia.
Ukraine needs to remain a sovereign State, not to become part of Russia again.

 

[depotoo]

Russian entrepreneurs invited to invest billions in Ukraine's Crimea - English pravda.ru

interesting article from Russian media.

 

[Hum Dinger]

Well, well, well. What game is being run down on us again? One more time I will put forth the disclaimer that I am no fan of Russia or Putin.

But I am one hell of a fan of the truth. And I am sick to death of being lied to by Western governments including my conservative one. And most of our freaking media.

We got involved in Egypt with our leaders telling us the Muslim Brotherhood was a secular organization who was pro democracy.

We got involved in Libya and that country has turned into a dogs breakfast with militias running the place.

We almost got involved big time in Syria before it was discovered that these so called rebels were paid mercenaries and some had ties to AQ.

Now this. A 1997 Ukraine - Russia agreement that allows Putin up to 25,000 troops in Crimea.

Don't forget there is a major naval base there.

CIA reportedly says Russia sees treaty as justifying Ukraine moves

[Updated, 8 p.m., March 3: WASHINGTON — CIA director John Brennan told a senior lawmaker Monday that a 1997 treaty between Russia and Ukraine allows up to 25,000 Russia troops in the vital Crimea region, so Russia may not consider its recent troop movements to be an invasion, U.S. officials said.

The number of Russian troops that have surged into Ukraine in recent days remains well below that threshold, Brennan said, according to U.S. officials who declined to be named in describing private discussions and declined to name the legislator.

Though Brennan disagrees that the treaty justifies Russia’s incursion, he urged a cautious approach, the officials said.

Administration officials have said Moscow violated the treaty, which requires the Russian navy, which bases its Black Sea fleet in Sevastopol, to coordinate all military movements on the Crimean peninsula with Ukraine.

CIA reportedly says Russia sees treaty as justifying Ukraine moves - latimes.com

There's a big difference between allowing troops to be stationed there and allowing them to be deployed there.

It would depend on the exact wording of the agreement.

 

[tinydancer]

This port was a done deal. It has not been seized. This agreement which was basically a Russian gas for lease deal runs til 2042,

Ukrainian parliament ratifies agreement extending Russian Black Sea Fleet's presence in Crimea

April 27, 2010, 11:54 a.m. | Politics — by Interfax-Ukraine

The Ukrainian parliament has ratified an agreement extending the Russian Black Sea Fleet's presence in Ukraine after 2017, signed by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych in Kharkiv last week. A total of 236 MPs voted for this decision at the parliament's session on Tuesday.

The Russian and Ukrainian presidents signed a number of agreements at a meeting in Kharkiv on April 21. The fleet agreement extended the fleet's presence in Ukraine for 25 years, starting from 2017, when the existing deal would expire. It is also possible to extend the new deal for another five years/B]

Ukrainian parliament ratifies agreement extending Russian Black Sea Fleet's presence in Crimea

 

[pvsi]

Well, well, well. What game is being run down on us again? One more time I will put forth the disclaimer that I am no fan of Russia or Putin.

But I am one hell of a fan of the truth. And I am sick to death of being lied to by Western governments including my conservative one. And most of our freaking media.

We got involved in Egypt with our leaders telling us the Muslim Brotherhood was a secular organization who was pro democracy.

We got involved in Libya and that country has turned into a dogs breakfast with militias running the place.

We almost got involved big time in Syria before it was discovered that these so called rebels were paid mercenaries and some had ties to AQ.

Now this. A 1997 Ukraine - Russia agreement that allows Putin up to 25,000 troops in Crimea.

Don't forget there is a major naval base there.

CIA reportedly says Russia sees treaty as justifying Ukraine moves

[Updated, 8 p.m., March 3: WASHINGTON — CIA director John Brennan told a senior lawmaker Monday that a 1997 treaty between Russia and Ukraine allows up to 25,000 Russia troops in the vital Crimea region, so Russia may not consider its recent troop movements to be an invasion, U.S. officials said.

The number of Russian troops that have surged into Ukraine in recent days remains well below that threshold, Brennan said, according to U.S. officials who declined to be named in describing private discussions and declined to name the legislator.

Though Brennan disagrees that the treaty justifies Russia’s incursion, he urged a cautious approach, the officials said.

Administration officials have said Moscow violated the treaty, which requires the Russian navy, which bases its Black Sea fleet in Sevastopol, to coordinate all military movements on the Crimean peninsula with Ukraine.

CIA reportedly says Russia sees treaty as justifying Ukraine moves - latimes.com

Thanks tinydancer - always nice to see people who back up their posts with actual links. Same here - I am not a fan of Putin either, I think he could do a lot more to stand up against the aggression by the axis of the so called "democracy", the international bankers.

 

[tinydancer]

Well, well, well. What game is being run down on us again? One more time I will put forth the disclaimer that I am no fan of Russia or Putin.

But I am one hell of a fan of the truth. And I am sick to death of being lied to by Western governments including my conservative one. And most of our freaking media.

We got involved in Egypt with our leaders telling us the Muslim Brotherhood was a secular organization who was pro democracy.

We got involved in Libya and that country has turned into a dogs breakfast with militias running the place.

We almost got involved big time in Syria before it was discovered that these so called rebels were paid mercenaries and some had ties to AQ.

Now this. A 1997 Ukraine - Russia agreement that allows Putin up to 25,000 troops in Crimea.

Don't forget there is a major naval base there.

CIA reportedly says Russia sees treaty as justifying Ukraine moves

[Updated, 8 p.m., March 3: WASHINGTON — CIA director John Brennan told a senior lawmaker Monday that a 1997 treaty between Russia and Ukraine allows up to 25,000 Russia troops in the vital Crimea region, so Russia may not consider its recent troop movements to be an invasion, U.S. officials said.

The number of Russian troops that have surged into Ukraine in recent days remains well below that threshold, Brennan said, according to U.S. officials who declined to be named in describing private discussions and declined to name the legislator.

Though Brennan disagrees that the treaty justifies Russia’s incursion, he urged a cautious approach, the officials said.

Administration officials have said Moscow violated the treaty, which requires the Russian navy, which bases its Black Sea fleet in Sevastopol, to coordinate all military movements on the Crimean peninsula with Ukraine.

CIA reportedly says Russia sees treaty as justifying Ukraine moves - latimes.com

There's a big difference between allowing troops to be stationed there and allowing them to be deployed there.

It would depend on the exact wording of the agreement.

It's the CIA stating that this situation requires a cautious approach. Which frankly this whole bloody mess if handled properly would not have escalated to this point.

And please, I am not just targeting Britain and America but I am going ballistic up here with my own crazy conservative government going off half cocked.

I have a righteously bipartisan rage going on.

I don't want to see sanctions and penalties forcing my energy costs to go sky high. I don't want to see more push and shove.

This is bullshit. And just because the Ukraine wanted to join the EU I don't want to pay for their stabilization.

And I'm of Ukrainian descent, but I don't want to pay for their screw ups.

Let the EU clean up the mess.

 

[1776]

Dumbfuck....you seem to make excuses for Russia and Putin non-stop here.

Putin is in violation of the Geneva Conventions because he sent in an occupying force against a sovereign nation and his troops are not wearing the required identification to identify themselves as a military force compared to gangs, criminals or terrorists. They are wearing ski masks for a fucking reason.

Now shut the fuck up over your fucking excuses for this ILLEGAL action.

25,000 troops and not a neo nazi in sight over in the Ukraine. Rarer than the albino deer. I thought the reason they were invading was to protect the russian speaking Ukranians? Where are all these Ukrainians they accuse of being neo nazis? Holding a candle vigil with prayers. Peacefully camping out and refusing to leave because they don't trust the Russians.

25,000 Russian troops sent into Ukraine over peaceful citizens armed with candles.

Justifying Russian moves here. Looks like they need some help.

With all due respect you are not understanding the issue in the Crimea. And this is limited to Crimea.

Demographically this state is 60% ethnic Russian to begin with. They are pro Russia (the Ukraine split this way).

Russia has had their naval base in Crimea for eons and Russian citizens man that naval base.

And legally he is allowed due to the 1997 agreement to have 25,000 troops in Crimea.

Oh and the neo nazis that they accuse of being in Kiev? They are in the transitional team of the new government.

It's not bullshit. And Putin's move into Crimea is to prevent this new government in Kiev from taking over the naval base and to protect Russian citizens.

I'm not making excuses. I believe in facts.

 

[1776]

Putin is denying "his troops" are in Ukraine because he knows he should be brought up on WAR CRIME charges as soon as one of his goons shoots and kills 1 innocent person in Ukraine.

His strategy is to claim "his troops" are just the local Russians that showed up from their vodka drinking sessions at the local bar to defend themselves against the "flesh eating" Ukrainians.

This 110% KGB bullshit.

 

[1776]

The Ukrainian military can do nothing but try to play it cool with their crazy "cousins" that showed up in their house armed to the teeth ready to kill everyone that gets out of line.

Ukraine's only option is to play the patsy and hope Russia leaves. Once the bullets fly, the Ukrainians are screwed and would lose more than Crimea to their scummy cousins from the east.

Putin right now is weighing his options if he wants to invade the rest of Ukraine and head towards Kiev. He is not going to let Ukraine align themselves with the EU....period and he will kill thousands to millions to get his way.

The silly pictures of them playing soccer can't cover up the demonic ways of Putin and the Russians.