Russia's Unreasonable Demands for Peace Deal!

[Silver Cat]

Yeah, they are not forbidden but their churches are being closed down. How convenient.

Their churches? They didn't build even one in Crimea.

There is no Poroshenko in the power for 4 years now. Wake up.

It was Poroshenko's idea, and the OCU (CP) was created during his presidentship in 2019.
And no, while Poroshenko is not a president, he still have some, quite significant, political influence.

Russian state agencies should be prohibited from operating in Ukraine.

Ok. You see, those people have been laymen of that church for many years, even during Soviet period. Their ancestors have been making their prayers there for centuries. Do you really believe that they will change their hearts just because a governmental freak said them that they should change it? When there is a choice between "to change the church (and betray God himself)" and "to change the government (and remove illegal Junta)" too many people will choose the first option.

Yes, they did.

No. Read NDP.

Why half of Europe should play this role? It is quite unreasonable.

Why not? It's the best way how they can increase (and not decrease) safety of the United States.

Stalemate is when two warring sides can't get their goal by military means and things get still. If by help you mean military deliveries, then I don't think that will stop.

Of course they will stop soon.

In this phase of the conflict, no. But Ukraine has to become on of the most militarised countries in the world. And the air defence component should be a significant part of that.

Bla-bla-bla. Who should pay for it? The United States Government has too many vulnerabilities to fix here, in the USA.

To speak on behalf of America, on should be an American, at least.

According your logic, Biden is an agent of Roman Catholic Church, which, by definition, is not American.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Really? Support a nazi coup, spend 8 years training and arming a nazi army that killed its citizens, and then help the "defending" side? Don't be so obviously hypocritical, practice your acting skills.

 

[ESay]

Their churches? They didn't build even one in Crimea

Then how you think their parishes existed there? They even had a cathedral there. The key word 'had'.

It was Poroshenko's idea, and the OCU (CP) was created during his presidentship in 2019.
And no, while Poroshenko is not a president, he still have some, quite significant, political influence

This idea was reasonable.

Ok. You see, those people have been laymen of that church for many years, even during Soviet period. Their ancestors have been making their prayers there for centuries. Do you really believe that they will change their hearts just because a governmental freak said them that they should change it? When there is a choice between "to change the church (and betray God himself)" and "to change the government (and remove illegal Junta)" too many people will choose the first option

Yeah, sure. A well-known event has changed many things. The main Moscow Patriarchate's church in my neighbourhood was almost empty this year's Easter. Now, you can start narratives about Ukey propaganda.

No. Read NDP

No, thanks. I don't want to descent to this first, third or fiftieth deterrence types.

The one thing I should admit, though, is that it can't be ruled out completely that your idiot would resort to tactical nukes.

Why not? It's the best way how they can increase (and not decrease) safety of the United States

Because the EU and NATO are the best things that happened to Europe in generations.

Of course they will stop soon

The time will show. There is no point to speculate on that.

Bla-bla-bla. Who should pay for it? The United States Government has too many vulnerabilities to fix here, in the USA

Because this is the best security investment for NATO for years to come.

According your logic, Biden is an agent of Roman Catholic Church, which, by definition, is not American

No, my logic is that you are not an American. Or Alex Brezhnev style of emigrant, at best.

 

[Silver Cat]

Then how you think their parishes existed there? They even had a cathedral there. The key word 'had'.

OCU (CP) was created in 2019. They didn't build anything neither in Crimea, nor in Ukraine. And to establish a parish you don't need to build a cathedral. All you need is a priest.

This idea was reasonable.

No. The idea was stupid and dangerous.

Yeah, sure. A well-known event has changed many things. The main Moscow Patriarchate's church in my neighbourhood was almost empty this year's Easter. Now, you can start narratives about Ukey propaganda.

No. I'll start the narrative about 'influence of observer'. They know, that you and your kind are watching them, therefore they hardly meet at churches. They (most of them) didn't change their hearts. They did change their behavior and went into underground. That's why the Russians have plenty of volunteered spies and saboteurs.

No, thanks. I don't want to descent to this first, third or fiftieth deterrence types.

Man, what useful can you say, if you can't even read NDP?

The one thing I should admit, though, is that it can't be ruled out completely that your idiot would resort to tactical nukes.



Because the EU and NATO are the best things that happened to Europe in generations.

Nobody cares about EU.

Because this is the best security investment for NATO for years to come.

No. It's pretty dangerous and stupid investment. Being simultaneously agressive and vulnerable - it's a really direct way to a catastrophe.

 

[Silver Cat]

The one thing I should admit, though, is that it can't be ruled out completely that your idiot would resort to tactical nukes.

Yes, and those scenarios were described in NDP, too. You must fight bravery against the nuclear capable adversary, while the USA will focus on Command and Control.

 

[ESay]

OCU (CP) was created in 2019. They didn't build anything neither in Crimea, nor in Ukraine. And to establish a parish you don't need to build a cathedral. All you need is a priest

All parishes of the Kiev Patriarchate joined the OCU.

No. The idea was stupid and dangerous

Russian state agencies should be prohibited from operating in Ukraine.

No. I'll start the narrative about 'influence of observer'. They know, that you and your kind are watching them, therefore they hardly meet at churches. They (most of them) didn't change their hearts. They did change their behavior and went into underground. That's why the Russians have plenty of volunteered spies and saboteurs

Yeah, but the OCU's church saw queues it never seen before. Obviously, that is because me and my kind forcibly herded those people t

BTW, given some recent occurrences in Russia, I would say that the number of 'volunteered spies and saboteurs' that GUR has in Russia is much higher.

Man, what useful can you say, if you can't even read NDP

Useful for you? Maybe nothing.

obody cares about EU

The EU is virtually an economic brunch of NATO. So, your statement is silly.

No. It's pretty dangerous and stupid investment. Being simultaneously agressive and vulnerable - it's a really direct way to a catastrophe

A direct way to catastrophe is your stupid and arrogant regime.

 

[Ringo]

All parishes of the Kiev Patriarchate joined the OCU.

All parishes in Berlin joined nazi regime.

 

[Silver Cat]

All parishes of the Kiev Patriarchate joined the OCU.

All parishes of the Kiev Patriarchate in Crimea joined Moscow Patriarchate back in 2014 and 2015.

Russian state agencies should be prohibited from operating in Ukraine.

Such a prohibition cause much more problems then actual benefits.

Yeah, but the OCU's church saw queues it never seen before. Obviously, that is because me and my kind forcibly herded those people t

Some them tried to demonstrate their loyalty. The problem is not in those opportunists. They prove nothing. The problem is in the true believers.

BTW, given some recent occurrences in Russia, I would say that the number of 'volunteered spies and saboteurs' that GUR has in Russia is much higher.

Actually, no. Few teenagers who are making pictures for the few dollars?

The EU is virtually an economic brunch of NATO. So, your statement is silly.

No. The only important part of NATO is the USA. Everything else is the ballast.

 

[ESay]

All parishes of the Kiev Patriarchate in Crimea joined Moscow Patriarchate back in 2014 and 2015

No, they didn't. The prime example is the OCU's cathedral in Simferopol that was closed down by the Putin regime in May 2023.

Such a prohibition cause much more problems then actual benefits

It causes some troubles today, but is necessary in the long run.

Some them tried to demonstrate their loyalty. The problem is not in those opportunists. They prove nothing. The problem is in the true believers

The 'opportunists' comprise the absolute majority. The 'true believers' is maybe 10%. Every social group has 'radicals' on such level.

Actually, no. Few teenagers who are making pictures for the few dollars?

Constant diversions on rail roads, sharp increase of arson on various sites, including military and FSB ones.

Some think that the drones used for the attack on the Kremlin were launched from the Moscow region.

No. The only important part of NATO is the USA. Everything else is the ballast

You seem to fail to comprehend why military and economic alliances are created.

 

[Silver Cat]

No, they didn't. The prime example is the OCU's cathedral in Simferopol that was closed down by the Putin regime in May 2023.

No. It wasn't property of OCU. This cathedral was build in Soviet period as a political-military school. Then, as a governmental property of Ukraine, it was leased to Ukrainian Orthodoxal Church of Kievan Patriarchate. After 2014, Ukrainian Orthodoxal Church of Moscow Patriarchate, became a part of Russian Orthodoxal Church of Moscow Patriarchate. Ukrainian Orthodoxal Church of Kievan Patriarchate refused to register as a religios organisations and lost all benefits of religios organisations, including their rental rights. Governmental property of Ukraine became governmental property of Russia. Bishop Clement became a citizen of Russian Federation, he personally declared himself as a bishop of OCU (Constantinoplis Patriarchate), and nobody hurts him (he can declare himself whoever he wants), but OCU (CP) as an organization is not registered in Russia, and, as an unregistered organization, it can't sign any rental agreements.
Anyway. This building was not build neither by OCU (CP), nor by UOC (KP). It was build by a Stroybat regiment of the Soviet Army.

It causes some troubles today, but is necessary in the long run.

No. It causes some troubles today, and it is absolutely lethal in the long run.

The 'opportunists' comprise the absolute majority. The 'true believers' is maybe 10%. Every social group has 'radicals' on such level.

Ok. 10% of twenty millions is 2 millions. And even if only 1% of them is actually and effectively cooperate with Russian special services - you have serious troubles even in Kiev controlled regions. What is worse - when the Russians come (for example in Zaporijia or Kherson regions) 90% of opportinists start to work with the Russian occupation administrations. And, you know, there are no "true belivers" in OCU to fight them.

Constant diversions on rail roads, sharp increase of arson on various sites, including military and FSB ones.

Actually, it's nothing.

Some think that the drones used for the attack on the Kremlin were launched from the Moscow region.

Some think that those drones were launched by FSB.

You seem to fail to comprehend why military and economic alliances are created.

I know why Clinton-Obama-Biden group expanded NATO eastward. They wanted to rise tensions with Russia and steal money of American taxpayers. It didn't increased American security, it significantly decreased it.

 

[ESay]

No. It wasn't property of OCU. This cathedral was build in Soviet period as a political-military school. Then, as a governmental .....

So what? The Kiev Pechersk Lavra and Pochaev Lavra weren't built by the Moscow Patriarchate, either. And those properties are state owned.

Ok. 10% of twenty millions is 2 millions. And even if only 1% of them is .....

The number of actual Russian secret services agents is maybe 1% of 1% of 1% .... etc. What a silly stuff.

Actually, it's nothing

And even this 'nothing' Russia doesn't have in Ukraine.

Some think that those drones were launched by FSB

What is common in these versions is the drones were launched from the Moscow oblast.

know why Clinton-Obama-Biden group expanded NATO eastward. They wanted to rise tensions with Russia and steal money of American taxpayers. It didn't increased American security, it significantly decreased it

Yeah, it always amuses me when the Russians are bitching about American taxpayers money.

 

[Silver Cat]

So what? The Kiev Pechersk Lavra and Pochaev Lavra weren't built by the Moscow Patriarchate, either. And those properties are state owned.

Kiev Pechorsk Lavra was build by Prince Yaroslav the Wise (the leader of Russia) and Anthony of Kiev (the founder of Russian monestic tradition) nine centuries before Ukrainian state and Ukrainian Church were created.

The number of actual Russian secret services agents is maybe 1% of 1% of 1% .... etc. What a silly stuff.



And even this 'nothing' Russia doesn't have in Ukraine.

It depends of your definition of the term "Ukraine". If you think, that Ukraine includes Donbass and Crimea - they have hundreds of thousands of well-motivated regular soldiers from there and a significant number of agents at the still-Kievan controlled territories (including Kiev itself and it's governmental services). They just don't endanger their assets for the empty roof-scratching.

 

[Ringo]

How the U.S. treats its allies. According to the french themselves.
After that, what do you think the U.S. attitude will be toward its rivals?
This is why Russia finally decided to oppose it.

 

[ESay]

Kiev Pechorsk Lavra was build by Prince Yaroslav the Wise (the leader of Russia) and Anthony of Kiev (the founder of Russian monestic tradition) nine centuries before Ukrainian state and Ukrainian Church were created

Yaroslaw the Wise was the Great Knyaz of Kiev. And no, there was no Russia at those times, at least in the sense you the Russians are desperately trying to make to base your silly claims on something.

It depends of your definition of the term "Ukraine". If you think, that Ukraine includes Donbass and Crimea - they have hundreds of thousands of well-motivated regular soldiers from there and a significant number of agents at the still-Kievan controlled territories (including Kiev itself and it's governmental services). They just don't endanger their assets for the empty roof-scratching

I mean Ukraine, for now, the Ukrainian government controlled territory.

Something tells me that all your assets are in Rostov and Moscow already. Or on the occupied territory, at the best.

 

[Ringo]

Yaroslaw the Wise was the Great Knyaz of Kiev. And no, there was no Russia at those times, at least in the sense you the Russians are desperately trying to make to base your silly claims on something

"Oh yeah, That putz is going to teach me russian history!"


First of all, where did the princes in Kiev come from, after which arises the territory later called by historians in the 19th century "Kievan Rus"? The princes came from NOVGOROD! And this is RUSSIA.

Before the Mongol invasion, the territories of modern Russia, Ukraine and Belorussia were in a single state. After the invasion, the lands of southern Russia, which is modern Ukraine, were devastated. At the site of Kiev, the Vatican ambassador to the Khan found a miserable settlement of a few dozen houses. Taking advantage of this, the Lithuanian principality and Poland, which had not experienced the devastation and genocide of the Mongol invasion, seized these lands. A large part of the territory of modern-day Ukraine was a dangerous and lifeless field through which the Tatars roamed and raided their neighbors.
And remained so until the Russian army in the 18th century defeated the masters of the Tatars, the Turkish Ottomans and in the course of several wars occupied the Black Sea lands, including the Crimea, returning them to the bosom of the Russian state.
But before that the Ukrainian сossacks in the 17th century, rebelling against the oppression of the Poles, not being able to throw off the yoke themselves, appealed to the Russian Tsar. They sent 16 embassies with this request. Russia eventually came to the rescue, resulting in a war with Poland for 13 years, after which the land on the left bank of the Dnieper and the city of Kiev passed, according to the treaty in the eternal possession of Russia.

 

[ESay]

"Oh yeah, That putz is going to teach me russian history!"


First of all, where did the princes in Kiev come from, after which arises the territory later called by historians in the 19th century "Kievan Rus"? The princes came from NOVGOROD! And this is RUSSIA.

Before the Mongol invasion, the territories of modern Russia, Ukraine and Belorussia were in a single state. After the invasion, the lands of southern Russia, which is modern Ukraine, were devastated. At the site of Kiev, the Vatican ambassador to the Khan found a miserable settlement of a few dozen houses. Taking advantage of this, the Lithuanian principality and Poland, which had not experienced the devastation and genocide of the Mongol invasion, seized these lands. A large part of the territory of modern-day Ukraine was a dangerous and lifeless field through which the Tatars roamed and raided their neighbors.
And remained so until the Russian army in the 18th century defeated the masters of the Tatars, the Turkish Ottomans and in the course of several wars occupied the Black Sea lands, including the Crimea, returning them to the bosom of the Russian state.
But before that the Ukrainian сossacks in the 17th century, rebelling against the oppression of the Poles, not being able to throw off the yoke themselves, appealed to the Russian Tsar. They sent 16 embassies with this request. Russia eventually came to the rescue, resulting in a war with Poland for 13 years, after which the land on the left bank of the Dnieper and the city of Kiev passed, according to the treaty in the eternal possession of Russia.

Sorry, dude, I don't discuss history with Russians anymore. I see no reason in arguing with a TV set.

If you want to get where Kiev knyazes and the Rurik dynasty came from, you should go a little further and reach Sweden. So, maybe it wouldn't be so bad to give your shithole back to the Swedes? It may help to 'civilize' your society, at least by lowering the level of overall idiocy. Though, I wouldn't count too much on that.

 

[Silver Cat]

Yaroslaw the Wise was the Great Knyaz of Kiev. And no, there was no Russia at those times, at least in the sense you the Russians are desperately trying to make to base your silly claims on something.

Yes. And Kiev was the capital of Russia at the time. Sure, it was not the Russian Federation, it was not the Soviet Union, it was not the Russian Empire, it was not the Great Duchy of Moscow. If we are speaking about Russia as about cultural and linguistic space, it existed long time ago. At least since VIII century.

I mean Ukraine, for now, the Ukrainian government controlled territory.

And again. You are still talking about controlling the territory, not about controlling human minds. What percent of Ukrainian citizens actually, truly and undoubtedly believes Kievan propaganda? Man, you yourself don't believe it, do you?

Something tells me that all your assets are in Rostov and Moscow already. Or on the occupied territory, at the best.

Something? When a Russian-speaking soldier in Odessa didn't check the tightness of the valves and lost 89 tons of the jetfuel - was it because he is lazy, or because he doesn't care about the existence of the Russian-hating government? When a Russian-speaking colonel sends the brand new German tanks directly on the minefield, was it because he is stupid, or because his Russian cousin gave him contacts of GRU? When a Russian-speaking president sends his best units into Bakhmut meatgrinder what is it - stupidity or treason?

 

[marvin martian]

Russia outlines conditions for Ukraine peace deal

The conflict can be settled if Kiev rules out joining NATO and the EU and recognizes “new territorial realities,” Moscow says

www.rt.com

Which is asking America to accept total defeat and walk away from its proxy war with Russia. No progress toward a peace deal for the Ukraine is possible as long as Russia stays committed to their agenda, as it's stated in this article.

Putin, Zelensky, and Biden are all making HUGE amounts of money on this war. They have no intention of ending it until it's milked completely dry.

 

[ESay]

Yes. And Kiev was the capital of Russia at the time. Sure, it was not the Russian Federation, it was not the Soviet Union, it was not the Russian Empire, it was not the Great Duchy of Moscow. If we are speaking about Russia as about cultural and linguistic space, it existed long time ago. At least since VIII century

To say that Russia existed at those times as 'cultural and linguistic space' is the same as to say Italy existed in the Roman times.

Something? When a Russian-speaking soldier in Odessa didn't check the tightness of the valves and lost 89 tons of the jetfuel - was it because he is lazy, or because he doesn't care about the existence of the Russian-hating government? When a Russian-speaking colonel sends the brand new German tanks directly on the minefield, was it because he is stupid, or because his Russian cousin gave him contacts of GRU? When a Russian-speaking president sends his best units into Bakhmut meatgrinder what is it - stupidity or treason

I can't say much about you examples, because I heard nothing of the first one; the second one was not in the way you are trying to depict; and the third one - the Battle of Bakhmut - raises many questions but they can be answered only after awhile.

And again. You are still talking about controlling the territory, not about controlling human minds. What percent of Ukrainian citizens actually, truly and undoubtedly believes Kievan propaganda? Man, you yourself don't believe it, do you?

Your stupid regime has lost many minds in Ukraine since the last year. And Ukrainian propaganda is only one part of that.

 

[Silver Cat]

To say that Russia existed at those times as 'cultural and linguistic space' is the same as to say Italy existed in the Roman times.

Yes, of course. Italy (as a linguistic and cultural space) existed long before official start of the Roman history.

Italic peoples - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I can't say much about you examples, because I heard nothing of the first one; the second one was not in the way you are trying to depict; and the third one - the Battle of Bakhmut - raises many questions but they can be answered only after awhile.



Your stupid regime has lost many minds in Ukraine since the last year. And Ukrainian propaganda is only one part of that.

I'm not sure, that Biden's regime actually wants to win the hearts and minds of Ukrainians. Looks like that they are searching the way to damage control.