S.W.A.T. Team Shoots 107 Year Old Man

[Katzndogz]

Unfortunately, the old man choose to go out in a blaze of gunfire and was shooting at the police. This could not be a more clear case of justifiable force.

How would I feel if it were my grandfather, father, uncle, cousin? I don't know how I would feel if my relative picked up a gun and started taking pot shots at the police. I'd probably say "The old fool is going to get himself killed."

 

[JimBowie1958]

Cops wanna be soldiers, and soldiers end up being cops. Do we see a problem here?

Yep, and it is catastrophic and going to get much worse.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Unfortunately, the old man choose to go out in a blaze of gunfire and was shooting at the police. This could not be a more clear case of justifiable force.

Yes, it was justified use of force, no doubt, but could it have been avoided had the cops been PEACE OFFICERS acting like PEACE OFFICERS instead of military tactical operators?

 

[Vandalshandle]

A well trained police officer will instantly shoot to kill anyone who is intentionally using a firearm in such a way as to kill or injure any other person. He is also trained to shoot first, if the gun is pointed in his direction, and he has reason to believe that his life may be in danger.

 

[numan]

Another case that screams at megawatt volume that guns should not be available to every Tom, Dick and Mary in America. They are lethal weapons and should not be in the possession of people who are not handling them with wisdom. This old man should not have had access to a gun.

Oh shut up.

A flippant remark unworthy of your usual good sense, R.C.

Esmeralda is right. "This old man should not have had access to a gun."

My father owned a revolver. After he died, it kicked around my mother's house for a number of years. When my mother began going senile, she would get into black rages about her neighbors poisoning her flower beds -- all imaginary, of course. She could be very irrational about such things, and I worried about the revolver, should she take it into her head to use it. So I quietly removed it from the house and disposed of it.

No doubt there are people here who would call me a godless un-American thief who deprived my mother of her American Right and Freedom to murder whomsoever she pleased, but I know that I did the right thing.

Too bad this 107 year-old senile old man did not have someone to steal his sacred "American" Rights and Freedoms from him.
.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Hiis age was irrelevant.

The fact that the police could have waited him out is also irrelevant, right? He wasn't shooting up the neighborhood, and had no hostages, the only reason they did a forced entry was because they wanted to prove how macho they are.

He shot at police officers. They were justified in returning fire.

Funny, I don't recall saying the police shouldn't be able to defend themselves. What I said is that this could have been avoided if they had not gone into the home in the first place when no one was in danger unless they entered it. They deliberately put themselves into a dangerous situation when there was no danger to themselves, or anyone else. If that is following department policy, the policy is wrong.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Let it go. That's how Leftytoons roll.

I remember reading of an incident in Texas about thirty years ago, prior to the militarization of our police forces.

This guy had gotten drunk, had an argument with his girlfriend and then beat her. When she called the cops, he held them off by holding his girlfriend hostage. The police surrounded the house with a SWAT team and it looked like it was going to be messy with at least one death if not two or more.

This old Texas Ranger, I kid you not and it wasn't Chuck Norris, heard about it on the radio. He drove to the apartment complex and told the guy in charge he was going to go up and talk to the suspect. The cops said he was crazy, but the Texas Rangers have priority in law enforcement matters and the cops couldn't stop him.

So this old Ranger walked up to the apartment door and talked to the guy through the door. He explained that so far the guy had not committed a crime that would put him away for life, and since he was a young man he would still have many decades of life left to him when he got out. So why get himself and his girlfriend killed? He asked him if he wanted to live, and the guy answered that he did. The Ranger asked him if he wanted his girlfriend to be killed by his own hand? The guy said no, he did not. So the Ranger says, then come on out, I'll give you five minutes to say what you need to say and I will take you in alive and you will live with no harm coming to your girlfriend. After a few minutes the guy emerged with his hands up, and the Ranger handcuffed him and led him out to the cops.

That is what a PEACE OFFICER does. He does not assume that every civilian who gets called out is an enemy of the entire community, but far more likely to be a guy who is having a bad day and things are spiraling out of control and they are angry, confused and just lashing out blindly. Calm them down, remind them of what they care for, and then calmly explain to them their options. The military does not bother with that and is more concerned with tactical advantage than considering the humanity of the people involved.

We need to stop militarizing our police forces. This old man might have had a few more years left to him instead of being killed by cops who have lost the art of being a peace officer.

Did you not understand that the old guy was shooting at the police through the door? If it was your scenario, the Ranger would have been shot before he got to the door.

This was a clear case of suicide by cop.

Did you not understand that they had to enter the apartment before they got shot at through the bedroom door?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Maybe they could have waited until he fell asleep and then arrested him?

107-year-old Arkansas man dies in shootout with S.W.A.T. | thv11.com

A 107-year old Pine Bluff man died Saturday after a shootout with officers and S.W.A.T. members. The Pine Bluff Police Dept. released the following information about the incident on Saturday evening.

"On September 7, 2013, at approximately 4:25 p.m., Officers of the Pine Bluff Police Department responded to a disturbance at 1411 W. 16th.

When they arrived, they were able to determine that an Aggravated Assault had occurred against two people at the residence. The suspect, Monroe Isadore (M, 107 years old), had pointed a weapon at them. The officers had the two victims leave the residence, for their safety, and approached the door to the bedroom where Isadore was supposed to be.

When officers announced themselves, Isadore shot through the door at them. No officer was hit or injured by the gunfire. The officers retreated to a safer area and supervisors and additional help were called. Supervisors began negotiating with Isadore as soon as they arrived. S.W.A.T. (Special Weapons and Tactics) was also called out.

Negotiations continued for some time and when S.W.A.T arrived, negotiations still continued. S.W.A.T. was able to insert a camera into the room, where Isadore was, and confirmed he was armed with a handgun. S.W.A.T. inserted gas into the room, after it was evident negotiations were unsuccessful, in hopes Isadore would surrender peacefully. When the gas was inserted into the room, Isadore fired rounds at the S.W.A.T. officers that had inserted the gas from outside a bedroom window.

Shortly afterwards, a S.W.A.T. entry team, inside the residence, breached the door to the bedroom and threw a distraction device into the bedroom. Isadore then began to fire on the entry team and the entry team engaged Isadore, killing him.

The investigation is still ongoing."

Another case that screams at megawatt volume that guns should not be available to every Tom, Dick and Mary in America. They are lethal weapons and should not be in the possession of people who are not handling them with wisdom. This old man should not have had access to a gun.

If you have a problem with the result of this incident, why not focus the blame where it belongs. If this old guy had a knife the cops would still have shot him because they went in there all geared up with their pretty toys to handle a single, possibly senile, old man who had no hostages, and was no danger to anyone who didn't do anything to provoke him.

In other words, the problem isn't that he had a gun, the problem is that the police were trained to think like a banana republic security force.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Cops wanna be soldiers, and soldiers end up being cops. Do we see a problem here?

That depends on who is looking.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A well trained police officer will instantly shoot to kill anyone who is intentionally using a firearm in such a way as to kill or injure any other person. He is also trained to shoot first, if the gun is pointed in his direction, and he has reason to believe that his life may be in danger.

The gun wasn't pointed in their direction before they entered the apartment and tried to breach the bedroom. One would think that it would be better training to teach those officers not to put themselves into the line of fire when the only problem is an old man who is having a bad day.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Another case that screams at megawatt volume that guns should not be available to every Tom, Dick and Mary in America. They are lethal weapons and should not be in the possession of people who are not handling them with wisdom. This old man should not have had access to a gun.

Oh shut up.

A flippant remark unworthy of your usual good sense, R.C.

Esmeralda is right. "This old man should not have had access to a gun."

My father owned a revolver. After he died, it kicked around my mother's house for a number of years. When my mother began going senile, she would get into black rages about her neighbors poisoning her flower beds -- all imaginary, of course. She could be very irrational about such things, and I worried about the revolver, should she take it into her head to use it. So I quietly removed it from the house and disposed of it.

No doubt there are people here who would call me a godless un-American thief who deprived my mother of her American Right and Freedom to murder whomsoever she pleased, but I know that I did the right thing.

Too bad this 107 year-old senile old man did not have someone to steal his sacred "American" Rights and Freedoms from him.
.

My father was an alcoholic, and once threatened to shoot us, but was too drunk to load the gun. Mom called the police, who arrested him, and removed the gun as evidence. By law, he had to give it back to my mom, but told her to get rid of it, or hide it. She got rid of it. He ended up committing suicide by another method.

The Right wing mantra, "Every one has a right to a gun" is utter nonsense.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Oh shut up.

A flippant remark unworthy of your usual good sense, R.C.

Esmeralda is right. "This old man should not have had access to a gun."

My father owned a revolver. After he died, it kicked around my mother's house for a number of years. When my mother began going senile, she would get into black rages about her neighbors poisoning her flower beds -- all imaginary, of course. She could be very irrational about such things, and I worried about the revolver, should she take it into her head to use it. So I quietly removed it from the house and disposed of it.

No doubt there are people here who would call me a godless un-American thief who deprived my mother of her American Right and Freedom to murder whomsoever she pleased, but I know that I did the right thing.

Too bad this 107 year-old senile old man did not have someone to steal his sacred "American" Rights and Freedoms from him.
.

My father was an alcoholic, and once threatened to shoot us, but was too drunk to load the gun. Mom called the police, who arrested him, and removed the gun as evidence. By law, he had to give it back to my mom, but told her to get rid of it, or hide it. She got rid of it. He ended up committing suicide by another method.

The Right wing mantra, "Every one has a right to a gun" is utter nonsense.

I do not know one single second amendment supporter who would argue that any of these people mentioned above should still have access to a gun.

Now that your straw men are exposed for what they are, how about discussing relevant programs that gun folks have been advocating instead of just pulling stuff out of your ass and acting like it was genuine?

 

[The Gadfly]

A well trained police officer will instantly shoot to kill anyone who is intentionally using a firearm in such a way as to kill or injure any other person. He is also trained to shoot first, if the gun is pointed in his direction, and he has reason to believe that his life may be in danger.

Typical liberal think: use cops, as if they were soldiers, use soldiers, as if they were cops. Neither works well, especially for the people involved, but somehow it gives you folks a warm, fuzzy, secure feeling. Go figure.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

Yeah, this was ridiculous. The guy was 107 years old!!! Maybe he was experiencing a little confusion, I mean, fuck!

I guess these cops would shoot a five-year-old who was brandishing a weapon, also.

Truly, he would eventually have fallen asleep. I hate cops and I think they either kill people because they enjoy it or they do it out of fear. Both wrong reasons.

 

[theHawk]

Pine Bluff, Arkansas: America?s Most Dangerous Little Town

Pine Bluff Ark, the most dangerous town in America.

That's kind of a bullshit stat. I've been there before and Pine Bluff has nothing on Detroit.

 

[Old Rocks]

The ACA will not allow you to die any earlier than what fate has in store for you.

Neither would the UK NHS, apart from the waiting list.
People often die on the waiting list, even more die on the waiting list to get on the waiting list.
Of course, those who die on the waiting list to get on the waiting list are not officially dead.
Some don't officially die for decades.
Artificially boosting life expectancy data for British citizens.

You do realize that you can purchase supplemental insurance in the UK, and if you do then you bypass all those waiting lists? If you can't afford supplemental insurance, at least you still have access to good healthcare at a very reasonable price; it's already paid for. Of course this is unlike our system where they will treat you to stabilize you if you cannot pay. Then they send you home. Yes, people who can't pay here in the US get medical care, but it's worse than what people get in the UK. Did you know that if you do not have health insurance in the US, you cannot get a transplant of any kind? Well, you can if you are on Medicaid, but that leaves out all those people who actually work for a living but can't afford health insurance because their employer doesn't offer it or because they are getting by working three part-time jobs. But hey, the UK system sucks. We all know it because that's what cons keep telling us.

One can see at a glance the failure of our present health care system. We pay more per capita than any other nation in the world, yet our longevity isn't that great compared to the other civilized industrial nations, and our infant mortality rate is third world. But these 'Conservatives' will tell you that is just great. And they are so proud of our standing.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVgOl3cETb4]"We're Number 37" - Paul Hipp - YouTube[/ame]

 

[JoeB131]

[

Another case that screams at megawatt volume that guns should not be available to every Tom, Dick and Mary in America. They are lethal weapons and should not be in the possession of people who are not handling them with wisdom. This old man should not have had access to a gun.

Who knows how long he owned the gun?

Are you suggesting we get analyzed periodically to see if we can continue to own our personal property?

We already do that. Old people are declared incompetent when they let their property decay due to lack of upkeep or their cars are taken away when they are no longer capable of driving them safely.

Clearly, this 107 year old had some issues.

 

[The Gadfly]

Yeah, this was ridiculous. The guy was 107 years old!!! Maybe he was experiencing a little confusion, I mean, fuck!

I guess these cops would shoot a five-year-old who was brandishing a weapon, also.

Truly, he would eventually have fallen asleep. I hate cops and I think they either kill people because they enjoy it or they do it out of fear. Both wrong reasons.

Good ones don't , Koosh; or at least, they didn't, before we started training them to think and act like paramilitary personnel, instead of peace officers (I seem to recall, that once upon a time, we called them that). What a concept, all brought to you by the same mindset, that expects our military to behave abroad, the way we used to expect civilian law enforcement to behave at home. So cops kill an old man here at home, and that's "good law enforcement", but soldiers kill the enemy abroad, and it's a "war crime".

 

[Esmeralda]

Maybe they could have waited until he fell asleep and then arrested him?

107-year-old Arkansas man dies in shootout with S.W.A.T. | thv11.com

A 107-year old Pine Bluff man died Saturday after a shootout with officers and S.W.A.T. members. The Pine Bluff Police Dept. released the following information about the incident on Saturday evening.

"On September 7, 2013, at approximately 4:25 p.m., Officers of the Pine Bluff Police Department responded to a disturbance at 1411 W. 16th.

When they arrived, they were able to determine that an Aggravated Assault had occurred against two people at the residence. The suspect, Monroe Isadore (M, 107 years old), had pointed a weapon at them. The officers had the two victims leave the residence, for their safety, and approached the door to the bedroom where Isadore was supposed to be.

When officers announced themselves, Isadore shot through the door at them. No officer was hit or injured by the gunfire. The officers retreated to a safer area and supervisors and additional help were called. Supervisors began negotiating with Isadore as soon as they arrived. S.W.A.T. (Special Weapons and Tactics) was also called out.

Negotiations continued for some time and when S.W.A.T arrived, negotiations still continued. S.W.A.T. was able to insert a camera into the room, where Isadore was, and confirmed he was armed with a handgun. S.W.A.T. inserted gas into the room, after it was evident negotiations were unsuccessful, in hopes Isadore would surrender peacefully. When the gas was inserted into the room, Isadore fired rounds at the S.W.A.T. officers that had inserted the gas from outside a bedroom window.

Shortly afterwards, a S.W.A.T. entry team, inside the residence, breached the door to the bedroom and threw a distraction device into the bedroom. Isadore then began to fire on the entry team and the entry team engaged Isadore, killing him.

The investigation is still ongoing."

Another case that screams at megawatt volume that guns should not be available to every Tom, Dick and Mary in America. They are lethal weapons and should not be in the possession of people who are not handling them with wisdom. This old man should not have had access to a gun.

Who knows how long he owned the gun?

Are you suggesting we get analyzed periodically to see if we can continue to own our personal property?

That's what they do when people who drive cars get old.

Guns are more dangerous than cars. Yes, all people, not just old people, should have to pass certain tests regularly to own a gun. Including whether they are losing their eye sight or ability to hold and fire a gun safely and whether or not they are still sane and lucid as opposed to senile and nuts.

 

[Katzndogz]

Oh no, another black guy with a gun!