Salvation by the Blood of Jesus Christ and What that Really Means

[JimBowie1958]

In this country, the US, you hear quite often that we all must be saved by the Name or Blood of Jesus Christ, and I whole heartedly believe that is true, but....


That is not the same as having faith or even knowledge of Jesus.



If we set up any rule of order, there are usually exceptions, and the salvation by faith in Christ rule is itself no exception. I know that there are exceptions because Abraham, Moses and King David were exceptions by way of faith and God's Promises at that time.

But when all is said and done, I believe that when King David enters Heaven it will/was by the cleansing power of the Blood of Christ, though David did not know Jesus as his Savior. King David and Moses and Enoch had simpler faith and concepts of God than the Trinity, and yet their faith was still held as credit to them.

Now in our post-Resurrection Age, God calls all men to Him through Jesus Christ, that is also True, but that message has been delivered through Jesus Christ and that in and of itself does not require anyone to have faith in Jesus personally. They could still worship God in their own light of understanding and receive full credit for that faith like Enoch did, though his concept of God was probably not much more than God = god of the sky/mountains, but who knows?

If we do good from a genuine heart of love and faith, if we genuinely do what we think is right, it is credited to us as faith in God, even if we are atheists who refuse to lie to themselves, though these are extremely rare kinds of atheists.

Another thing Jesus said was that if we knock on the door the door will be opened to the inquirer. That does not require me or you to butt into peoples lives and be rude 'for their own sake'. Living a life of service and love is more impactful than a million Chick Tracts.

So let us not presumptive about who is going where in the next life. Instead let us focus on what we can do to serve the poor and widowed in this life today.

How many of us who think of ourselves as firm Christians have not visited our won parents in years? How many of us give no charity (other than by extorted taxation)? How many of us have done so much as given a single hour of service to those around us who need us for more reasons than we likely realize?

I suspect more atheists will enter heaven than we think, and fewer 'Christians'.

 

[Chuckt]

Another thing Jesus said was that if we knock on the door the door will be opened to the inquirer. That does not require me or you to butt into peoples lives and be rude 'for their own sake'. Living a life of service and love is more impactful than a million Chick Tracts.

Jim,

If it was successful, all we would have to do is say nothing and let people live their lives to the end. It doesn't work.

Romans 10:14 ¶ How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

In season and out of season means when you feel like doing it and when you don't feel like doing it.

The real question is, "Did you give them the gospel?"

Chuck

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Another thing Jesus said was that if we knock on the door the door will be opened to the inquirer. That does not require me or you to butt into peoples lives and be rude 'for their own sake'. Living a life of service and love is more impactful than a million Chick Tracts.

Jim,

If it was successful, all we would have to do is say nothing and let people live their lives to the end. It doesn't work.

Romans 10:14 ¶ How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

In season and out of season means when you feel like doing it and when you don't feel like doing it.

The real question is, "Did you give them the gospel?"

Chuck

That is the question, I believe Jim Bowie is posing, Chuck. Is does mankind need to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Is it really necessary?

According to Jesus Christ? Yes. What did Jesus say? He said to his followers, Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel!


It is written:

Go ye into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes, and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they shall drive out demons, they shall speak in new tongues............

Mark 16: 15 -19

What Jim Bowie is saying sounds very flowerly and nice but it simply is not the gospel nor is it the truth. No unbeliever shall enter the kingdom of heaven.

It is written:

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters, and all liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death. - Revelation 21: 8

- Mark

So we are to go into all the world and give them the good news, Chuck.
Where is the world today?
Most of them are on the internet! It is a great place to reach the Lost.

On the matter of King David and the prophets.. when Jesus went down to hell to take the keys to hell "and death" - that was the very hour those who were in "Paradise" which was in view of Hell - were taken up into heaven. That is why Jesus told the thief that he would be with him that day in Paradise - Jesus went directly there - revealed himself as Lord to those who were there and they were all then translated to heaven when he ascended himself. That is a fact and therein there are no "unsaved" patriarchs of the faith... Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, King David, they are all there in heaven right now at this writing and all received the Lord as they had even prophesied of his coming yet could not receive the promise until we did...

It is written:


These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them, received what had been promised. ( they were in Paradise waiting for it ) God had planned somthing better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect. (receiving the righteousness of Christ by faith - therein entering heaven )

It is so simple only a child wouldn't miss it. Others? Need to become like a child!

- Jeri

 

[JimBowie1958]

Yes, it is necessary to preach the Gospel, and sometimes you even have to use words.

The best way to preach the Gospel is to live it, then help those who come to you of their own accord.

There is no need to Hard Sell the Gospel; in fact it is detrimental to genuine conversion.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Another important point. No man hides his light under a bushel. I have never in my life met a born again Christian in love with Jesus Christ who did not speak of him continuously, pray without ceasing, share their faith in Christ with others, speak the Words Jesus spoke, know the Word of God, speak the Word of God, walk as He did, do what He did, desire the very same things Christ desires....

it is the natural outflow of a heart that communes with God.

If you love Jesus? You will seek Him early with Prayer, Praise, Worship. Communing with the LORD.
If you love Jesus? You will talk about him! All the time! You will fellowship w/ the church Daily.
If you love Jesus? You will spend your money on what matters to him most.
If you love Jesus? You will study His Word, Know it, Live it, Speak it & Share it with the Lost.
If you love Jesus? You will obey Him and do what He says.
If you love Jesus? You will keep His commandments, live a holy, obedient, repentant, prayerful life.
If you love Jesus? You will deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow Him.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Yes, it is necessary to preach the Gospel, and sometimes you even have to use words.

The best way to preach the Gospel is to live it, then help those who come to you of their own accord.

There is no need to Hard Sell the Gospel; in fact it is detrimental to genuine conversion.

If one does not live the Gospel message one cannot Preach it, Jim. Ministry is the fruit of a relationship with God. The greater the relationship? The greater the fruit. You cannot have fruit without an abiding relationship with Jesus Christ. No one sells the Gospel. If God's Love could be bought it would be utterly despised..

It is written:

I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardner. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch in me that bears fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself, it must remain in the vine. Niether can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. - John 15 : 1 - 4


You see, Jim? Unless you abide in the vine, you won't be bearing fruit. That means that without abiding in a relationship with Jesus - you won't be bearing fruit - anyone who does not continue to abide is a branch that will not bear fruit - will not preach the gospel, will not produce any fruit for their labor in the harvest - those who accept Christ as their savior - will not bear any good fruit to offer the Father.. what will become of such a one?

It is written:

If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers, such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you then you can ask what you wish and it will be given to you. - John 15: 6, 7

So here we see that Jesus is saying if you are not abiding in me? The result will be a withered - dead- false religion - and those are the ones who are cast into the fire. ( hell )

On the matter of those remaining - there is a reward! The reward is that abiding in Christ produces answered prayer! If I am abiding in Christ and I have a need that I present to the Father - it will be given to me according to this promise! Isn't that wonderful? The good news, Jim, is that this available not only to me as an obedient, abiding servant but to all who would obey Jesus and do what he says to do!

You see not all who say Lord, Lord shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven, Jim.. Only those who do the will of the Father. God knows his own children. He hears their prayers. He knows their needs before they even ask! God has rebuked Kings who have dared to trouble his anointed ones! Do you think we serve a benfitless God? No. Not at all. God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him.

If you do not feel this way then don't do it! Just do not stand in the way of those who are willing and obedient to Obey God. Because then you would be striving against God and not the man you come to accuse.

On the other hand if you do desire to please God then pray to God that he send more Laborers into the harvest for the laborers are few and the harvest is great.

Thanks for reading, Jim!


-Jeri

 

[Chuckt]

Yes, it is necessary to preach the Gospel, and sometimes you even have to use words.

The best way to preach the Gospel is to live it, then help those who come to you of their own accord.

There is no need to Hard Sell the Gospel; in fact it is detrimental to genuine conversion.

I lived it, Jim. A lady at work asked me why I was different, changed her mind and said, "You are more mature." They don't get it unless you give them the gospel.

Adam and Eve's first rejected work was sewing fig leaves to cover their nakedness. It was rejected by God. An animal had to be slain.

 

[Sunni Man]

Adam and Eve's first rejected work was sewing fig leaves to cover their nakedness. It was rejected by God. An animal had to be slain.

There is No bible verse saying that God rejected the fig leaves Adam and Eve were wearing.

Just more invented nonsense by ignorant Christians. .

 

[Chuckt]

Adam and Eve's first rejected work was sewing fig leaves to cover their nakedness. It was rejected by God. An animal had to be slain.

There is No bible verse saying that God rejected the fig leaves Adam and Eve were wearing.

Just more invented nonsense by ignorant Christians. .

There is context that God clothed them and God drove them out of the garden.
If their ways were enough then God would have left them be.

 

[Sunni Man]

Adam and Eve's first rejected work was sewing fig leaves to cover their nakedness. It was rejected by God. An animal had to be slain.

There is No bible verse saying that God rejected the fig leaves Adam and Eve were wearing.

Just more invented nonsense by ignorant Christians. .

There is context that God clothed them and God drove them out of the garden.
If their ways were enough then God would have left them be.

Incorrect Poindexter.

The garden had perfect temperature and they could run around naked.

But the world had seasons and sometimes got cold so they needed thicker clothes.

And again, there are No verses saying that God rejected their fig clothes. .

 

[theword]

In this country, the US, you hear quite often that we all must be saved by the Name or Blood of Jesus Christ, and I whole heartedly believe that is true, but....


That is not the same as having faith or even knowledge of Jesus.



If we set up any rule of order, there are usually exceptions, and the salvation by faith in Christ rule is itself no exception. I know that there are exceptions because Abraham, Moses and King David were exceptions by way of faith and God's Promises at that time.

But when all is said and done, I believe that when King David enters Heaven it will/was by the cleansing power of the Blood of Christ, though David did not know Jesus as his Savior. King David and Moses and Enoch had simpler faith and concepts of God than the Trinity, and yet their faith was still held as credit to them.

Now in our post-Resurrection Age, God calls all men to Him through Jesus Christ, that is also True, but that message has been delivered through Jesus Christ and that in and of itself does not require anyone to have faith in Jesus personally. They could still worship God in their own light of understanding and receive full credit for that faith like Enoch did, though his concept of God was probably not much more than God = god of the sky/mountains, but who knows?

If we do good from a genuine heart of love and faith, if we genuinely do what we think is right, it is credited to us as faith in God, even if we are atheists who refuse to lie to themselves, though these are extremely rare kinds of atheists.

Another thing Jesus said was that if we knock on the door the door will be opened to the inquirer. That does not require me or you to butt into peoples lives and be rude 'for their own sake'. Living a life of service and love is more impactful than a million Chick Tracts.

So let us not presumptive about who is going where in the next life. Instead let us focus on what we can do to serve the poor and widowed in this life today.

How many of us who think of ourselves as firm Christians have not visited our won parents in years? How many of us give no charity (other than by extorted taxation)? How many of us have done so much as given a single hour of service to those around us who need us for more reasons than we likely realize?

I suspect more atheists will enter heaven than we think, and fewer 'Christians'.

For one thing, All God's men and servant were created in His heavenly Kingdom and we'll remain in Heaven forever. This means no one is going to heaven after their flesh perishes. Since we're already invisible thoughts of God stored as wavelengths of energy, we have to be processed into a defined world in order to identify ourselves as a living being. Our brain is the processor of energy ( information ) that gives us the illusions we see, taste, smell and touch in this world.

 

[Chuckt]

There is No bible verse saying that God rejected the fig leaves Adam and Eve were wearing.

Just more invented nonsense by ignorant Christians. .

There is context that God clothed them and God drove them out of the garden.
If their ways were enough then God would have left them be.

Incorrect Poindexter.

The garden had perfect temperature and they could run around naked.

But the world had seasons and sometimes got cold so they needed thicker clothes.

And again, there are No verses saying that God rejected their fig clothes. .

I disagree from all that I've read, studied, etc.
Not every argument will get an answer.

 

[JakeStarkey]

JimBowie on Christianity replicates the story of the magician who wanted to buy the "Christian Magic" from the apostles.

 

[hobelim]

There is No bible verse saying that God rejected the fig leaves Adam and Eve were wearing.

Just more invented nonsense by ignorant Christians. .

There is context that God clothed them and God drove them out of the garden.
If their ways were enough then God would have left them be.

Incorrect Poindexter.

The garden had perfect temperature and they could run around naked.

But the world had seasons and sometimes got cold so they needed thicker clothes.

And again, there are No verses saying that God rejected their fig clothes. .

Their nakedness and need for animal skins had nothing whatever to do with the temperature or naked people or clothing.

Think fairy tale kids.

Being expelled from Eden meant leaving the sanctuary of God where they could be naked, their true selves, and come to no harm but beyond the boundaries of eden the wild beasts of the field roamed free in the wilderness of no law and would have eaten them alive without thicker animal skins to wear that made them superficially blend in like sheep in wolves clothing.

 

[hobelim]

In this country, the US, you hear quite often that we all must be saved by the Name or Blood of Jesus Christ, and I whole heartedly believe that is true, but....


That is not the same as having faith or even knowledge of Jesus.



If we set up any rule of order, there are usually exceptions, and the salvation by faith in Christ rule is itself no exception. I know that there are exceptions because Abraham, Moses and King David were exceptions by way of faith and God's Promises at that time.

But when all is said and done, I believe that when King David enters Heaven it will/was by the cleansing power of the Blood of Christ, though David did not know Jesus as his Savior..

How can anybody be cleansed by the blood of Jesus without knowing what the blood of Jesus is metaphorical of?

What do you say "the blood of Jesus" means and how does it cleanse?

 

[theword]

In this country, the US, you hear quite often that we all must be saved by the Name or Blood of Jesus Christ, and I whole heartedly believe that is true, but....


That is not the same as having faith or even knowledge of Jesus.



If we set up any rule of order, there are usually exceptions, and the salvation by faith in Christ rule is itself no exception. I know that there are exceptions because Abraham, Moses and King David were exceptions by way of faith and God's Promises at that time.

But when all is said and done, I believe that when King David enters Heaven it will/was by the cleansing power of the Blood of Christ, though David did not know Jesus as his Savior..

How can anybody be cleansed by the blood of Jesus without knowing what the blood of Jesus is metaphorical of?

What do you say "the blood of Jesus" means and how does it cleanse?

This belief came from false religious ideas going all the way back to Babylon, where religion and religious ideas got it's start. It came from God's plan called the beast, which is a plan to teach men how to build things starting with teaching men how to connect the stars to get building shapes. Then God had to teach them how to build those shapes with materials from the earth such as bricks, blocks and carved stone and all the other materials man uses for building things.

 

[hobelim]

How can anybody be cleansed by the blood of Jesus without knowing what the blood of Jesus is metaphorical of?

What do you say "the blood of Jesus" means and how does it cleanse?

This belief came from false religious ideas going all the way back to Babylon, where religion and religious ideas got it's start. It came from God's plan called the beast, which is a plan to teach men how to build things starting with teaching men how to connect the stars to get building shapes. Then God had to teach them how to build those shapes with materials from the earth such as bricks, blocks and carved stone and all the other materials man uses for building things.

Horsefeathers.



According to Divine Law, life is in the blood. Life is also the promise for obedience to the Law.

It follows then, that the blood of Jesus is the way he conformed to the Divine commands that gave him the life promised for obedience to the Law. .

Flesh is teaching. Jesus taught that the law has deeper subjects hidden by metaphors not directly connected to the literal meaning of the words used encapsulated by his command to eat his flesh, a direct reference to Kosher law..

Unless you eat his flesh, accept his teaching about the figurative nature of the Law, and drink his blood, conform to the law in the way that Jesus did you cannot have the eternal life promised for obedience to the law in you.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

JimBowie on Christianity replicates the story of the magician who wanted to buy the "Christian Magic" from the apostles.

I do not know who Jim Bowie is - I haven't read anything he has written before this thread to the best of my remembrance, Jake. On the matter of the one who wanted to buy the Holy Spirit, can you imagine the sheer arrogance and audacity of someone believing that they could do such a thing? That story really makes me wonder about some people, Jake. Although I have to tell you that Simon was a sorcerer. So his wickedness and need for attention was noted from the beginning.

Here is the story:

Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, "This man is the divine power known as the Great Power. They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his magic.

But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women, Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.

When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them, they had simply been baptised into the name of the Lord Jesus.

Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

When Simon ( the one who had been called Simon the Sorcerer ) saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles hands, he offered them money and said, Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.

Peter answered, May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry because your heart is not right before God. Repent of this wickedeness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.

Then Simon answered, Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me.

When they had testified and proclaimed the word of the Lord, Peter and John returned to Jerusalem, preaching the gospel in many Samaritan villages.

- Acts 8: 9 - 25

Note that the problem with this Sorcerer who had believed was that his heart was not right within him. He was full of bitterness and captive to sin. This is the condition of all those who are involved in the art of sorcery, witchcraft, paganism.

They are full of bitterness and captive to sin.

Notice that when Simon learns he is in danger of the judgment of God over the matter that he quickly asks Peter to pray nothing Peter said will come upon him. Also notice that Peter doesn't pray for him.

Why?

Because Simon STILL has not repented of his sins. He makes no mention of being sorrowful for the bitterness in his heart, he makes no mention of his wretched condition - being captive to sin.. he makes no repentance and without repentance? There is no forgiveness for sin. Good job, Jake, on bringing up the story of the Sorcerer who wanted to buy the Holy Spirit - it is a powerful lesson for those who dare to even "think such a thing" in their own hearts. - Jeri

 

[theword]

How can anybody be cleansed by the blood of Jesus without knowing what the blood of Jesus is metaphorical of?

What do you say "the blood of Jesus" means and how does it cleanse?

This belief came from false religious ideas going all the way back to Babylon, where religion and religious ideas got it's start. It came from God's plan called the beast, which is a plan to teach men how to build things starting with teaching men how to connect the stars to get building shapes. Then God had to teach them how to build those shapes with materials from the earth such as bricks, blocks and carved stone and all the other materials man uses for building things.

Horsefeathers.



According to Divine Law, life is in the blood. Life is also the promise for obedience to the Law.

It follows then, that the blood of Jesus is the way he conformed to the Divine commands that gave him the life promised for obedience to the Law. .

Flesh is teaching. Jesus taught that the law has deeper subjects hidden by metaphors not directly connected to the literal meaning of the words used encapsulated by his command to eat his flesh, a direct reference to Kosher law..

Unless you eat his flesh, accept his teaching about the figurative nature of the Law, and drink his blood, conform to the law in the way that Jesus did you cannot have the eternal life promised for obedience to the law in you.

Life is not the blood of man. Life comes from processed energy through our brain, which is our processor. Any doctor knows that once the brain has no activity, the patient is dead. They can keep pumping blood through the body once the brain has stopped functioning but without processed information coming into the brain, life is not there.

If blood was life, then these prophecies would say so.

Psalm 36
9: For with thee is the fountain of life; in thy light do we see the light.

John 1
4: In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Genesis 2
7: then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Job 33
1: "But now, hear my speech, O Job, and listen to all my words.
2: Behold, I open my mouth; the tongue in my mouth speaks.
3: My words declare the uprightness of my heart, and what my lips know they speak sincerely.
4: The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
5: Answer me, if you can; set your words in order before me; take your stand.
6: Behold, I am toward God as you are; I too was formed from a piece of clay.

 

[JimBowie1958]

In this country, the US, you hear quite often that we all must be saved by the Name or Blood of Jesus Christ, and I whole heartedly believe that is true, but....


That is not the same as having faith or even knowledge of Jesus.



If we set up any rule of order, there are usually exceptions, and the salvation by faith in Christ rule is itself no exception. I know that there are exceptions because Abraham, Moses and King David were exceptions by way of faith and God's Promises at that time.

But when all is said and done, I believe that when King David enters Heaven it will/was by the cleansing power of the Blood of Christ, though David did not know Jesus as his Savior..

How can anybody be cleansed by the blood of Jesus without knowing what the blood of Jesus is metaphorical of?

What do you say "the blood of Jesus" means and how does it cleanse?

Well, take for example King David under the Old Testament. He did not know Jesus, but knew God and worshipped and loved God. When he goes into the divine presence of God, his sins will be forgiven not because of animal sacrifice but due to the sacrifice of Jesus.

God adds to His church and God cleanses with the blood of Jesus those who He judges as righteous by faith. If that requires direct knowledge of Jesus then no one could enter into Heaven prior to the birth of Christ and that is provably wrong.

It is only by a strict literal reading of the applicable passages that one can claim that one must know Jesus Christ in order to be saved and only one exception breaks that requirement. It has no 'wiggle room'.

It is a blessing to know Jesus Christ and to live in faith and fellowship with Him and other Christians, no doubt, and missionary work is HUGELY still necessary and needed, but God will judge; it is no simple formulaic process at all.