Sarah Brady has died

[2aguy]

...Why would you push registration when it will do absolutely nothing to stop criminals from getting and using guns.....?

Unless the penalty for being caught with an un-registered gun, or being caught with any gun - registered or not - without a License - is so frigging draconian that it scares the shit out of the average second-story man who might want to carry one.

There is no need to register a gun for a law abiding citizen....do you see that? If a person is caught committing a crime and is in possession of a gun at the time....go draconian on them.....if a felon is caught in the mere possession of a gun...go draconian on them........

And we can do that right now......with no registration of guns needed...at all.....

I mentioned in another post about 3 guys who shot up a chicago park....2 of them had just gotten out of jail on weapons charges....sentenced to 3 years, they did a "boot camp" were out in about 12 months and then shot up the park.......

Then I just posted about the guy who just shot a police officer in the face...

He was just coming out on his 3rd weapons charge...and already had a gun..

He used a revolver .357, so magazine limits would not have applied

He was a felon so he can't pass a background check...and still got the gun....

He was a felon who can't own a gun so he can't register an illegal gun and by Supreme court ruling he doesn't have to....


So again....I know you like the idea of registering people...but it is completely unnecessary... crimes are not solved by tracking guns back to their original owners.....

 

[2aguy]

Here Condor....an article on where illegal guns come from...

Inside the Black Market for Guns - Forbes

In 1991, the ATF estimated that 37 percent of armed criminals obtained firearms from street sales, 34 percent from criminal acts and associates, 8 percent from relatives, 7 percent came from dealers, and 6 percent from flea markets and gun shows. More recently, a Bureau of Justice Statistics survey of state prison inmates convicted of gun-related crimes determined that 79 percent of them bought their firearms from “street/illegal sources” or “friends or family.”

 

[rightwinger]

The Brady Bill did nothing to disarm Americans

Above you applauded her for fighting for the Brady Bill saying "she made a difference". Apparently you don't think so now claiming that what she fought for didn't make one.

Forced poor gun buyers to wait a day before they kill

Conservative Ron Reagan supported the bill. But of course, he took a bullet and understood the impact guns have on our society

We also understand the actual, real impact....Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives 1.6 million times a year........ while criminals use guns 8-9,000 times a year illegally to commit murder with guns...

We can actually do math.......

Repeating that NRA fantasy does not make it true

Considering it isn't NRA stats...you are wrong again...it comes from 16 studies, done by separate researchers, both public and private, some rabidly anti gun like the clinton justice dept. and obama and his CDC, over a period of 40 years.....that number is the average of those studies...........so yeah.....it makes it true......

Who funded those studies pray tell?

Completely fabricated to appease gun nuts

 

[rightwinger]

Well, that's one 'No' vote, I take it...

I understand what you are trying to do Kondor...you just have to think about it a little more.....felons in every state can't own or carry guns......yet we have 8-9,000 gun murders each year.....

Mass shooters already can't carry guns into gun free zones or use them to shoot innocent people...yet they pass background checks or steal the guns, and carry them into federal gun free zones.....

Once we can trace a firearm from manufacturer to usage, including all its past legal possessors, we will have a far more accountable and careful public, in that regard.

If you're a licensed gun-owner, and you give your idiot cousin a gun (or if he steals it and you don't report it), and he sticks-up a gas station with it, then he's screwed, and you're not far behind, because you empowered him.

Accountability is one of several key arguments in favor of centralized registration and licensure data tracking, if it results in far fewer guns getting loose in the wild, for fear of judgment in an 'accountability' context.

I do not believe that there are any true and substantive Constitutional barriers to such an approach, given that State-level databases and licensing and registration schemes already exist and that they have withstood challenges in the law courts.

But this is a matter for We The People to decide together.

My money is on some-such thing materializing in the not-too-distant future, as a compromise between Gun Rights Folk and Gun Grabbers, in order to put this noisy and bothersome and energy-consuming argument to rest in this country, once and for all.

I do not believe that there are any true and substantive Constitutional barriers to such an approach, given that State-level databases and licensing and registration schemes already exist and that they have withstood challenges in the law courts.

Did you know that because of the Haynes decision...actual felons are not required to register their illegal guns...due to the protection against self incrimination...yet law abiding citizens could be made to register their guns....

Is that what you intend with your laws......

Hell, no...

The undertaking of any such approach implicitly assumes that we burn all such laws to the ground, and build something new and better on the ashes...

The solution is simple....if a criminal uses a gun to commit a crime...arrest them and put them in prison. If a felon is caught in possession of a gun, arrest them and put them in prison.....

See how easy that is...and we already have those laws on the books....no need to waste more ink or typing......

We already do that and we have more people in prison than any nation on earth and the highest murder rate in the free world

Your way does not seem to be working

 

[9thIDdoc]

Sarah Brady has died

About time. Good riddance.

 

[rightwinger]

Sarah Brady has died

About time. Good riddance.

She was a great Republican

 

[turtledude]

Her husband took the bullet.

What did she do that was soo great? ......

she parlayed his wounding into fame and fortune for herself.

 

[turtledude]

...
We must get rid of all the guns.
Sarah Brady
...

My condolences to the Brady family and friends.

We should expect no less (such a statement) from a woman who has suffered so much due to the existence of guns in the hands of the general public, God bless her.

But, her personal tragedy cannot (and will not) serve as the basis for disarming the American People in direct contravention to the provisions of the Constitution and its accurate and historic interpretation in this context.

The Brady Bill did nothing to disarm Americans

and more Importantly-it did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DECREASE GUN CRIME

 

[turtledude]

Great American

Fought very hard for the Brady Bill.

She made a difference

"We must get rid of all the guns" - Sarah Brady

Sounds to me what she wanted was to deny 2nd amendment rights.

She had her life destroyed by guns. As an American she had a right to advocate anything she thought necessary

Are you so wraped up in the second amendment that you forget about the first?

I never said she didn't have the 1st Amendment right to say what she wanted to say. I'm not denying or advocating denying her that ability. She can't say the same thing about the 2nd.

Her life was destroyed by the second amendment

How was your life destroyed by the first?

that is as stupid as saying someone who was mugged by a black had her life destroyed by the emancipation proclamation

 

[turtledude]

Gun-Grabbers are not going to get America's guns.

"No" means "No".

Despite attempt-after-attempt.

Year after year.

Decade after decade.

Generation after generation.

"No" means "No".

I see some paranoia here and paranoia is a symptom of mental disease so yes, you should be disarmed.

Ah, August West is here again

What's up Wharf Rat?

And no, I got no dime but I got some time.

He's mad doing time half of his life for some other fucker's crime

 

[2aguy]

I understand what you are trying to do Kondor...you just have to think about it a little more.....felons in every state can't own or carry guns......yet we have 8-9,000 gun murders each year.....

Mass shooters already can't carry guns into gun free zones or use them to shoot innocent people...yet they pass background checks or steal the guns, and carry them into federal gun free zones.....

Once we can trace a firearm from manufacturer to usage, including all its past legal possessors, we will have a far more accountable and careful public, in that regard.

If you're a licensed gun-owner, and you give your idiot cousin a gun (or if he steals it and you don't report it), and he sticks-up a gas station with it, then he's screwed, and you're not far behind, because you empowered him.

Accountability is one of several key arguments in favor of centralized registration and licensure data tracking, if it results in far fewer guns getting loose in the wild, for fear of judgment in an 'accountability' context.

I do not believe that there are any true and substantive Constitutional barriers to such an approach, given that State-level databases and licensing and registration schemes already exist and that they have withstood challenges in the law courts.

But this is a matter for We The People to decide together.

My money is on some-such thing materializing in the not-too-distant future, as a compromise between Gun Rights Folk and Gun Grabbers, in order to put this noisy and bothersome and energy-consuming argument to rest in this country, once and for all.

I do not believe that there are any true and substantive Constitutional barriers to such an approach, given that State-level databases and licensing and registration schemes already exist and that they have withstood challenges in the law courts.

Did you know that because of the Haynes decision...actual felons are not required to register their illegal guns...due to the protection against self incrimination...yet law abiding citizens could be made to register their guns....

Is that what you intend with your laws......

Hell, no...

The undertaking of any such approach implicitly assumes that we burn all such laws to the ground, and build something new and better on the ashes...

The solution is simple....if a criminal uses a gun to commit a crime...arrest them and put them in prison. If a felon is caught in possession of a gun, arrest them and put them in prison.....

See how easy that is...and we already have those laws on the books....no need to waste more ink or typing......

We already do that and we have more people in prison than any nation on earth and the highest murder rate in the free world

Your way does not seem to be working

No...we need to keep violent gun criminals in prison for a long time to stop gun crime...it is the only gun control that actually saves lives....

Why don't you agree with that......

Of course...if criminals stop using guns to kill people because of long prison sentences....there are fewer bodies to drag in front of democrat controlled press cameras......and the reason to confiscate guns goes away........

Since it isn't gun crime you guys really care about...you just care about the guns......

 

[turtledude]

I never said she didn't have the 1st Amendment right to say what she wanted to say. I'm not denying or advocating denying her that ability. She can't say the same thing about the 2nd.

Her life was destroyed by the second amendment

How was your life destroyed by the first?

Her life was "destroyed" by a mentally ill fucked who was not already institutionalized due to "the rights of the insane" to decide if they should be involuntarily confined.

Hinkley never should have been allowed near a gun. NRA nuts fought to protect his right to bear arms

Yeah, sure they did.

I see NRA ads saying "ARM THE INSANE" every day.

Yet they fight every piece of sensible legislation to identify those who should not be armed and verify whether a potential gun buyer is not allowed

why do you turds pretend that all you want is to keep "bad people" disarmed when bad people are the least likely to be disarmed by your schemes?

 

[turtledude]

Her husband took the bullet that was meant to kill your hero, Ronnie (Blessed Be His Name) Ray-Gun.

Just like Gabby Giffords, they both lost the lives they had worked for, planned for, hoped for - just because of a gun loon.

So, I guess In shouldn't be surprised that asshole RW Pootin loving traitors wouldn't know who they are, or care.

Giffords shot by a democrat.
Brady shot by a democrat.

Wow, you are really looney tunes.

Regardless of political affiliation, they were shot by those exercising their second amendment rights

more moronic psychobabble. That's akin to saying a gay priest was exercising gay rights by sodomizing an altar boy

 

[turtledude]

...Yet they fight ever piece of sensible legislation to identify those who should not be armed and verify whether a potential gun buyer is not allowed

I'm gonna hate myself in the morning but I have to agree with this much, anyway.

Except it isn't true Condor...criminals get their guns by stealing them or by getting someone who can pass a background check to get the gun for them......and that is with the current background check system....and these methods used will also get around so called "universal background checks" the minute they would be in place....so not one criminal would be stopped.....but...law abiding citizens would now have a further restriction on their right....having done nothing to have that imposition placed on them.....

And on top of that...by creating so called Universal Background checks that will do absolutely nothing to stop one criminal from getting a gun....anti gunners tighten the noose a little more.....they will then come back and say.....gee.....criminals are still getting guns from friends and family who can pass background checks...and from stealing guns....so next, they will say that "common sense" gun control now means background checks between family and friends.....and again...that won't stop crime and they will finally go for the jewel in the gun control crown.....Gun Registration....since that is the only way to pretend to get Universal Background checks to work.....

And of course it won't....because criminals will still get their guns from family members who can pass background checks and they won't register their illegal guns....they are in fact Constitutionally protected from registering their guns due to the Haynes Decision in the Supreme Court......

So gun murders will still occur...and the next step.....banning guns.......

So he is wrong Condor....we aren't against stopping criminals.....it is just that the plans of anti gunners have nothing to do with stopping criminals and gun crime.....since none of their laws stop criminals and gun crime......

Personally, if I were King of the World, I would arrange the following...

1. National Database for the Registration of Firearms - at the Factory, and then the movement of individual firearms through the wholesale, retail and personal possession chains.

2. National Database of Personal Licenses to Carry FIrearms.

3. National Standards for the screening of potential licensees (criminal or psychiatric impairment history, dishonorable discharge, citizenship status, training, etc.).

4. National Standards for Licensing (nature of issuing authorities, identification required, background checking, revocation scenarios, etc.).

5. National Standards for Sale, Transfer-of-Possession and Disposal/Disposition of Firearms.

6. Mandatory usage of National Databases for all Firearms -related information and licensing and transactions.

7. Teeth in the Law - a transitional Grace Period, to work the kinks out and to grandfather-in everything out there already, then, severe and draconian penalties for violations.

8 Allowing large-capacity magazines and automatic weapons, at the discretion of individual jurisdictions - preserving an element of Home Rule in the matter.

There are a hundred and one barriers to any of that, of course - they say the Devil is in the Details - but the time has probably come to stop phukking around with this, get it done, and Devil take the hindmost - freeing-up vast energy currently spent at cross-purposes, spanning large numbers of jurisdictions having different rules and requirements.

Once done, we still have a heavily and bravely armed citizenry, but we know who the owners are, and where the guns are, and anyone caught outside that system then gets his head handed to him on a platter, metaphorically - going to jail for a very, very, very long time - no exceptions.

How well would such a thing work? Dunno. It's never been tried before. And the technology has caught up to the situation. Maybe the time is right to try.

And sadly, most of your ideas are wrong headed.......

You lost me at National Data base for the registration of firearms....which is the 2nd to last step that is used for banning some or all guns........so I would fight that tooth and nail....

but we know who the owners are,

And therefore they will easily be disarmed when the political will exists......there is no need to know who has these guns....when you catch someone breaking the law with a gun...you know who broke the law with that gun...if you catch a felon in possession of a gun, in his home, car or on his person...you can already arrest them since it is already against the law for them to posses any gun, of any kind.....

And that does not require knowing which law abiding citizens have the guns......

when you cut away the crap-he's a gun banner. when you think such a scheme will stop crime and won't be misused you are either a fool or deep down a (dishonest-aren't they all) gun banner. There is no reason for a legitimate government to know what arms its masters own

 

[turtledude]

If I was just King of the United States....there would be a national carry law ...all law abiding citizens could carry a gun, open or concealed,their choice, in any state of the union.

People who use guns for a crime would have 10-20 years added to their sentence....

Felons caught with a gun would be arrested and sentenced to 10-20 years ....

that is how you stop gun crime...everything else is a waste of time....

and any politician who votes to restrict the gun rights of citizens would be tried for treason and immediately stripped of any protection by any public servant bearing any arm that said politician tried to keep other citizens from possessing

 

[Roadrunner]

Her husband took the bullet that was meant to kill your hero, Ronnie (Blessed Be His Name) Ray-Gun.

Just like Gabby Giffords, they both lost the lives they had worked for, planned for, hoped for - just because of a gun loon.

So, I guess In shouldn't be surprised that asshole RW Pootin loving traitors wouldn't know who they are, or care.

Duddy would not give a damn about the bradys if they did not support gun control.

If Brady had not been shot, Luddie would curse him as a godamned "Raygunite", a whore for "St. Ronnie".

 

[Roadrunner]

She had her life destroyed by guns. As an American she had a right to advocate anything she thought necessary

Are you so wraped up in the second amendment that you forget about the first?

The Second Amendment is the only reason we gave any Rights left. Without it the Government no longer has reason to fear the public.

We have never required a second amendment to protect our rights

The first amendment more than assures it

Are you running for Stupidest Poster?

 

[turtledude]

...Why would you push registration when it will do absolutely nothing to stop criminals from getting and using guns.....?

Unless the penalty for being caught with an un-registered gun, or being caught with any gun - registered or not - without a License - is so frigging draconian that it scares the shit out of the average second-story man who might want to carry one.

so if you are going away for life for merely owning a gun, you might as well kill as many people as possible who made that possible. anyone jailed for merely owning a gun-something millions upon millions of americans have done for centuries, is morally blameless in my eyes if that person takes as many government operatives with him as possible who are trying to enforce such an idiotic law that violates the constitution. Better yet, such a person should target the scum who passed such a unconstitutional law.

 

[turtledude]

She had her life destroyed by guns. As an American she had a right to advocate anything she thought necessary

Are you so wraped up in the second amendment that you forget about the first?

The Second Amendment is the only reason we gave any Rights left. Without it the Government no longer has reason to fear the public.

We have never required a second amendment to protect our rights

The first amendment more than assures it

Are you running for Stupidest Poster?

He won that years ago. his handle alone was worth 100 Poe-ness points

 

[Roadrunner]

Her husband took the bullet that was meant to kill your hero, Ronnie (Blessed Be His Name) Ray-Gun.

Just like Gabby Giffords, they both lost the lives they had worked for, planned for, hoped for - just because of a gun loon.

So, I guess In shouldn't be surprised that asshole RW Pootin loving traitors wouldn't know who they are, or care.

Giffords shot by a democrat.
Brady shot by a democrat.

Wow, you are really looney tunes.

Regardless of political affiliation, they were shot by those exercising their second amendment rights

Indeed they were.

Just as millions upon millions of Americans protect themselves and their families and their homes each year through an exercising of their Second Amendment rights.

The Constitution is working as planned and the Universe is unfolding as it should.

All is well.

We could certainly use some common-sense controls with respect to nationwide standardized screening and licensing and tracking standards but that's all that remains to be done.

BATF should try enforcing the current back ground check law.

My son ran a gun counter at an Academy store.

He caught and denied sales to scores of people trying to use girlfriends or buddies to buy guns to which they were not entitled to buy.

BATF never did a damned thing.