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scientology vs IRS

Wolfstrike

Gold Member
Jan 12, 2012
2,237
433
160
Los Angeles
Relationship with IRS[edit]
In 1991 Miscavige, together with Marty Rathbun, visited the United States Internal Revenue Service (IRS) headquarters in Washington D.C. to arrange a meeting with Commissioner Fred T. Goldberg, Jr.. For more than two decades, the IRS had refused to recognize Scientology as a nonprofit charitable organization, a status granted to most established religious organizations. Prior to this meeting, Scientology had filed more than fifty lawsuits against the IRS and, according to The New York Times, "Scientology's lawyers hired private investigators to dig into the private lives of IRS officials and to conduct surveillance operations to uncover potential vulnerabilities... [and] taken documents from an I.R.S. conference and sent them to church officials and created a phony news bureau in Washington to gather information on church critics. The church also financed an organization of I.R.S. whistle-blowers that attacked the agency publicly."[31] At the meeting with Commissioner Goldberg, Miscavige offered to cease Scientology's suits against the IRS in exchange for tax exemptions.[31] This led to a two-year negotiating process, in which IRS tax analysts were ordered to ignore the substantive issues because the issues had been resolved prior to review. Ultimately, the church was granted recognition as a nonprofit religious or charitable organization in the United States, which creates a tax exemption for the Church of Scientology International and its organizations, and tax deductions for those who contribute to their programs.[6][31] Senior Scientology officials and the IRS later issued a statement that the ruling was based on a two-year inquiry and voluminous documents that showed the church was qualified for the exemptions.[31]

To announce the settlement with the IRS, Miscavige gathered a reported 10,000 members of Scientology in the Los Angeles Sports Arena, where he delivered a two-and-a-half-hour address and proclaimed, "The war is over!"[6][31] The crowd gave Miscavige an ovation that lasted more than ten minutes.[32]
 
Scientology is kinda like the old Arthur Murray dance studios...

... scheme of keeping customers 'captive'...

... by selling different 'levels' of dance instruction.

Don't understand why the FTC or DoJ hasn't dealt with `em...

... in the same manner.
 
Yup. Organized religion can be absolutely fucking crazy. Sometimes not even the constitution can defend against it.
au contraire - the constitution does not defend against it. It defends it - as it should.

What you think about another religion is utterly irrelevant no matter how crazy it is. As long as it does not present a danger to others or their freedoms the constitution CLEARLY defends your right to believe in it and the tax status that is offered to one religion MUST be offered to all.
 
Yup. Organized religion can be absolutely fucking crazy. Sometimes not even the constitution can defend against it.
au contraire - the constitution does not defend against it. It defends it - as it should.

What you think about another religion is utterly irrelevant no matter how crazy it is. As long as it does not present a danger to others or their freedoms the constitution CLEARLY defends your right to believe in it and the tax status that is offered to one religion MUST be offered to all.

---
Scientology [sic] is clearly a business masquerading as a "science" and a charitable "religion".
It's a pseudoscience and its Dianetics origins morphed into a cult and adopted a "church" designation specifically to avoid taxation.
What a farce!
And the US Constitution defends it?

Maybe Apple Inc should be renamed "Church of Apple-ology", claim itself to be a religion, and seek an IRS exemption ... after it creates a top position "Director of Religious Technology Services", expands its charity donations to schools who embrace its "religion", and creates a "Orchard Org" religious order to guide its business operations.
Apple would be even more profitable or "prophetable" than it already is!

The IRS would look even more inept, or would that reflect on the US Constitution?
:)
.
 
Yup. Organized religion can be absolutely fucking crazy. Sometimes not even the constitution can defend against it.
au contraire - the constitution does not defend against it. It defends it - as it should.

What you think about another religion is utterly irrelevant no matter how crazy it is. As long as it does not present a danger to others or their freedoms the constitution CLEARLY defends your right to believe in it and the tax status that is offered to one religion MUST be offered to all.

---
Scientology [sic] is clearly a business masquerading as a "science" and a charitable "religion".
It's a pseudoscience and its Dianetics origins morphed into a cult and adopted a "church" designation specifically to avoid taxation.
What a farce!
And the US Constitution defends it?

Maybe Apple Inc should be renamed "Church of Apple-ology", claim itself to be a religion, and seek an IRS exemption ... after it creates a top position "Director of Religious Technology Services", expands its charity donations to schools who embrace its "religion", and creates a "Orchard Org" religious order to guide its business operations.
Apple would be even more profitable or "prophetable" than it already is!

The IRS would look even more inept, or would that reflect on the US Constitution?
:)
.
Please outline how Scientology is a business and the products that they retail.
 
Yup. Organized religion can be absolutely fucking crazy. Sometimes not even the constitution can defend against it.
au contraire - the constitution does not defend against it. It defends it - as it should.

What you think about another religion is utterly irrelevant no matter how crazy it is. As long as it does not present a danger to others or their freedoms the constitution CLEARLY defends your right to believe in it and the tax status that is offered to one religion MUST be offered to all.

---
Scientology [sic] is clearly a business masquerading as a "science" and a charitable "religion".
It's a pseudoscience and its Dianetics origins morphed into a cult and adopted a "church" designation specifically to avoid taxation.
What a farce!
And the US Constitution defends it?

Maybe Apple Inc should be renamed "Church of Apple-ology", claim itself to be a religion, and seek an IRS exemption ... after it creates a top position "Director of Religious Technology Services", expands its charity donations to schools who embrace its "religion", and creates a "Orchard Org" religious order to guide its business operations.
Apple would be even more profitable or "prophetable" than it already is!

The IRS would look even more inept, or would that reflect on the US Constitution?
:)
.
Please outline how Scientology is a business and the products that they retail.








Scientology charges money to audit its members. That is the business model, and the product is of course the program to perform the audits.


"Those who join Scientology often end up spending vast sums on auditing and other Church gimmicks, leading detractors to characterize Scientology as a pyramid scheme in which members pay ever-vaster sums of money to ascend the Church’s “Operating Thetan levels.”

Germany Treats Scientology as a Threat to Democracy. The U.S. Should Too.
 
FLAT TAX................No Deductions.......................

Fire 75% of the IRS...........................

End the 75,000 pages of code.............
Cut the Federal Budget..........

File on a post card.............

What's not to like....................:mm:
 
Yup. Organized religion can be absolutely fucking crazy. Sometimes not even the constitution can defend against it.


I bet you're a good bullshitter. We need to put our minds together and open our own church. Praise be. :)
You already have.........It's called the Gov't because you worship it already..............

:banana::banana2:



No, that's stupid because I pay them money. No, I'm looking for a lucrative tax exempt business. Maybe a cross between Carson's 15% tithe system which would raise taxes on the poor, and Trump taking advantage of bankruptcy laws in order to get ahead.
 
Yup. Organized religion can be absolutely fucking crazy. Sometimes not even the constitution can defend against it.


I bet you're a good bullshitter. We need to put our minds together and open our own church. Praise be. :)
You already have.........It's called the Gov't because you worship it already..............

:banana::banana2:



No, that's stupid because I pay them money. No, I'm looking for a lucrative tax exempt business. Maybe a cross between Carson's 15% tithe system which would raise taxes on the poor, and Trump taking advantage of bankruptcy laws in order to get ahead.
Most of the proposals give a 0% rate for those in poverty............
The tax code gives loop holes out the ass to those you want to target.......
A simplified code without deductions ensures they have to pay.....

So what's the problem.........
 
Yup. Organized religion can be absolutely fucking crazy. Sometimes not even the constitution can defend against it.


I bet you're a good bullshitter. We need to put our minds together and open our own church. Praise be. :)
You already have.........It's called the Gov't because you worship it already..............

:banana::banana2:



No, that's stupid because I pay them money. No, I'm looking for a lucrative tax exempt business. Maybe a cross between Carson's 15% tithe system which would raise taxes on the poor, and Trump taking advantage of bankruptcy laws in order to get ahead.
Most of the proposals give a 0% rate for those in poverty............
The tax code gives loop holes out the ass to those you want to target.......
A simplified code without deductions ensures they have to pay.....

So what's the problem.........



Really? Because that is not what Ben said.

"We need a significantly changed taxation system," Carson said in the prime-time GOP debate last week. "And the one that I've advocated is based on tithing, because I think God is a pretty fair guy. And he said, you know, if you give me a tithe, it doesn't matter how much you make. If you've had a bumper crop, you don't owe me triple tithes. And if you've had no crops at all, you don't owe me no tithes. So there must be something inherently fair about that.

"And that's why I've advocated a proportional tax system. You make $10 billion, you pay a billion. You make $10, you pay one. And everybody gets treated the same way. And you get rid of the deductions, you get rid of all the loopholes."
 
Yup. Organized religion can be absolutely fucking crazy. Sometimes not even the constitution can defend against it.


I bet you're a good bullshitter. We need to put our minds together and open our own church. Praise be. :)
You already have.........It's called the Gov't because you worship it already..............

:banana::banana2:



No, that's stupid because I pay them money. No, I'm looking for a lucrative tax exempt business. Maybe a cross between Carson's 15% tithe system which would raise taxes on the poor, and Trump taking advantage of bankruptcy laws in order to get ahead.
Most of the proposals give a 0% rate for those in poverty............
The tax code gives loop holes out the ass to those you want to target.......
A simplified code without deductions ensures they have to pay.....

So what's the problem.........



Really? Because that is not what Ben said.

"We need a significantly changed taxation system," Carson said in the prime-time GOP debate last week. "And the one that I've advocated is based on tithing, because I think God is a pretty fair guy. And he said, you know, if you give me a tithe, it doesn't matter how much you make. If you've had a bumper crop, you don't owe me triple tithes. And if you've had no crops at all, you don't owe me no tithes. So there must be something inherently fair about that.

"And that's why I've advocated a proportional tax system. You make $10 billion, you pay a billion. You make $10, you pay one. And everybody gets treated the same way. And you get rid of the deductions, you get rid of all the loopholes."

"We need a significantly changed taxation system," Carson said in the prime-time GOP debate last week. "And the one that I've advocated is based on tithing, because I think God is a pretty fair guy. And he said, you know, if you give me a tithe, it doesn't matter how much you make. If you've had a bumper crop, you don't owe me triple tithes. And if you've had no crops at all, you don't owe me no tithes. So there must be something inherently fair about that.

"And that's why I've advocated a proportional tax system. You make $10 billion, you pay a billion. You make $10, you pay one. And everybody gets treated the same way. And you get rid of the deductions, you get rid of all the loopholes."
He was quoting the simplicity of it............not a final plan................

He said the rate would be 15% or so not staying with the 10%...........never heard him say anything against the no taxes up to $35,000 that Cruz suggested.......................

If we weren't so polarized.......perhaps we could negotiate the simple flat tax out..............

On Corporate Taxes...........Trump proposed it going down to 15%...................to try and stop the Inversion which fell on deaf ears during the debate......................because we need Investment here as we have a stagnant economy............

What are the solutions offered from the Dems other than increase taxes.......or add more pages to the code to close loop holes....................................................................

Simplify the system..............and end the abuse..............Your Dem leaders are for the big corp on your side just as the GOP is trying to keep the loop holes.....................perhaps you should push this agenda to your side as well???????????
 
I bet you're a good bullshitter. We need to put our minds together and open our own church. Praise be. :)
You already have.........It's called the Gov't because you worship it already..............

:banana::banana2:



No, that's stupid because I pay them money. No, I'm looking for a lucrative tax exempt business. Maybe a cross between Carson's 15% tithe system which would raise taxes on the poor, and Trump taking advantage of bankruptcy laws in order to get ahead.
Most of the proposals give a 0% rate for those in poverty............
The tax code gives loop holes out the ass to those you want to target.......
A simplified code without deductions ensures they have to pay.....

So what's the problem.........



Really? Because that is not what Ben said.

"We need a significantly changed taxation system," Carson said in the prime-time GOP debate last week. "And the one that I've advocated is based on tithing, because I think God is a pretty fair guy. And he said, you know, if you give me a tithe, it doesn't matter how much you make. If you've had a bumper crop, you don't owe me triple tithes. And if you've had no crops at all, you don't owe me no tithes. So there must be something inherently fair about that.

"And that's why I've advocated a proportional tax system. You make $10 billion, you pay a billion. You make $10, you pay one. And everybody gets treated the same way. And you get rid of the deductions, you get rid of all the loopholes."

"We need a significantly changed taxation system," Carson said in the prime-time GOP debate last week. "And the one that I've advocated is based on tithing, because I think God is a pretty fair guy. And he said, you know, if you give me a tithe, it doesn't matter how much you make. If you've had a bumper crop, you don't owe me triple tithes. And if you've had no crops at all, you don't owe me no tithes. So there must be something inherently fair about that.

"And that's why I've advocated a proportional tax system. You make $10 billion, you pay a billion. You make $10, you pay one. And everybody gets treated the same way. And you get rid of the deductions, you get rid of all the loopholes."
He was quoting the simplicity of it............not a final plan................

He said the rate would be 15% or so not staying with the 10%...........never heard him say anything against the no taxes up to $35,000 that Cruz suggested.......................

If we weren't so polarized.......perhaps we could negotiate the simple flat tax out..............

On Corporate Taxes...........Trump proposed it going down to 15%...................to try and stop the Inversion which fell on deaf ears during the debate......................because we need Investment here as we have a stagnant economy............

What are the solutions offered from the Dems other than increase taxes.......or add more pages to the code to close loop holes....................................................................

Simplify the system..............and end the abuse..............Your Dem leaders are for the big corp on your side just as the GOP is trying to keep the loop holes.....................perhaps you should push this agenda to your side as well???????????



You can argue, but here he is saying just exactly what I said above. Call Ben a liar if you like, but he's talking about raising taxes on the poor. The plan he's talking about in the video would actually cut taxes for the wealthy, and raise taxes on the poor. You'd think that would be a pretty hard sell, wouldn't ya?

Cutting taxes does not create jobs.


 
You already have.........It's called the Gov't because you worship it already..............

:banana::banana2:



No, that's stupid because I pay them money. No, I'm looking for a lucrative tax exempt business. Maybe a cross between Carson's 15% tithe system which would raise taxes on the poor, and Trump taking advantage of bankruptcy laws in order to get ahead.
Most of the proposals give a 0% rate for those in poverty............
The tax code gives loop holes out the ass to those you want to target.......
A simplified code without deductions ensures they have to pay.....

So what's the problem.........



Really? Because that is not what Ben said.

"We need a significantly changed taxation system," Carson said in the prime-time GOP debate last week. "And the one that I've advocated is based on tithing, because I think God is a pretty fair guy. And he said, you know, if you give me a tithe, it doesn't matter how much you make. If you've had a bumper crop, you don't owe me triple tithes. And if you've had no crops at all, you don't owe me no tithes. So there must be something inherently fair about that.

"And that's why I've advocated a proportional tax system. You make $10 billion, you pay a billion. You make $10, you pay one. And everybody gets treated the same way. And you get rid of the deductions, you get rid of all the loopholes."

"We need a significantly changed taxation system," Carson said in the prime-time GOP debate last week. "And the one that I've advocated is based on tithing, because I think God is a pretty fair guy. And he said, you know, if you give me a tithe, it doesn't matter how much you make. If you've had a bumper crop, you don't owe me triple tithes. And if you've had no crops at all, you don't owe me no tithes. So there must be something inherently fair about that.

"And that's why I've advocated a proportional tax system. You make $10 billion, you pay a billion. You make $10, you pay one. And everybody gets treated the same way. And you get rid of the deductions, you get rid of all the loopholes."
He was quoting the simplicity of it............not a final plan................

He said the rate would be 15% or so not staying with the 10%...........never heard him say anything against the no taxes up to $35,000 that Cruz suggested.......................

If we weren't so polarized.......perhaps we could negotiate the simple flat tax out..............

On Corporate Taxes...........Trump proposed it going down to 15%...................to try and stop the Inversion which fell on deaf ears during the debate......................because we need Investment here as we have a stagnant economy............

What are the solutions offered from the Dems other than increase taxes.......or add more pages to the code to close loop holes....................................................................

Simplify the system..............and end the abuse..............Your Dem leaders are for the big corp on your side just as the GOP is trying to keep the loop holes.....................perhaps you should push this agenda to your side as well???????????



You can argue, but here he is saying just exactly what I said above. Call Ben a liar if you like, but he's talking about raising taxes on the poor. The plan he's talking about in the video would actually cut taxes for the wealthy, and raise taxes on the poor. You'd think that would be a pretty hard sell, wouldn't ya?



And is that the final negotiated deal...............I too think everyone should have skin in the game...........but am willing to compromise on the final deal..............................

Those in poverty still pay no taxes..............I'm okay with that for the simplified system if that is what is needed to simplify the code..........

What is the Dem counter offer to that?
 
No, that's stupid because I pay them money. No, I'm looking for a lucrative tax exempt business. Maybe a cross between Carson's 15% tithe system which would raise taxes on the poor, and Trump taking advantage of bankruptcy laws in order to get ahead.
Most of the proposals give a 0% rate for those in poverty............
The tax code gives loop holes out the ass to those you want to target.......
A simplified code without deductions ensures they have to pay.....

So what's the problem.........



Really? Because that is not what Ben said.

"We need a significantly changed taxation system," Carson said in the prime-time GOP debate last week. "And the one that I've advocated is based on tithing, because I think God is a pretty fair guy. And he said, you know, if you give me a tithe, it doesn't matter how much you make. If you've had a bumper crop, you don't owe me triple tithes. And if you've had no crops at all, you don't owe me no tithes. So there must be something inherently fair about that.

"And that's why I've advocated a proportional tax system. You make $10 billion, you pay a billion. You make $10, you pay one. And everybody gets treated the same way. And you get rid of the deductions, you get rid of all the loopholes."

"We need a significantly changed taxation system," Carson said in the prime-time GOP debate last week. "And the one that I've advocated is based on tithing, because I think God is a pretty fair guy. And he said, you know, if you give me a tithe, it doesn't matter how much you make. If you've had a bumper crop, you don't owe me triple tithes. And if you've had no crops at all, you don't owe me no tithes. So there must be something inherently fair about that.

"And that's why I've advocated a proportional tax system. You make $10 billion, you pay a billion. You make $10, you pay one. And everybody gets treated the same way. And you get rid of the deductions, you get rid of all the loopholes."
He was quoting the simplicity of it............not a final plan................

He said the rate would be 15% or so not staying with the 10%...........never heard him say anything against the no taxes up to $35,000 that Cruz suggested.......................

If we weren't so polarized.......perhaps we could negotiate the simple flat tax out..............

On Corporate Taxes...........Trump proposed it going down to 15%...................to try and stop the Inversion which fell on deaf ears during the debate......................because we need Investment here as we have a stagnant economy............

What are the solutions offered from the Dems other than increase taxes.......or add more pages to the code to close loop holes....................................................................

Simplify the system..............and end the abuse..............Your Dem leaders are for the big corp on your side just as the GOP is trying to keep the loop holes.....................perhaps you should push this agenda to your side as well???????????



You can argue, but here he is saying just exactly what I said above. Call Ben a liar if you like, but he's talking about raising taxes on the poor. The plan he's talking about in the video would actually cut taxes for the wealthy, and raise taxes on the poor. You'd think that would be a pretty hard sell, wouldn't ya?



And is that the final negotiated deal...............I too think everyone should have skin in the game...........but am willing to compromise on the final deal..............................

Those in poverty still pay no taxes..............I'm okay with that for the simplified system if that is what is needed to simplify the code..........

What is the Dem counter offer to that?



That's not what he fucking said. I'm not arguing your plan, I'm arguing against Ben's plan.
 

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