Scotland Was Allowed To Vote On Secession. Why Can't The American States?

[Discombobulated]

[

So then secession was all about tariffs.......nothing to do with slavery.

That's about right. Tariffs and states rights is what the south was concerned with. Slavery had little to do with the CW. I proved that in an earlier post. THINK

[

The Confederacy was based on nothing but emotion. Secession began over what some people imagined Lincoln might do......and nothing more.

You idiot. The south had been talking about secession for decades due to the onerous tariffs the north was imposing on it.

There are no legitimate historians anywhere who would be stupid enough to support your hair brained theories regarding secession.

Actually, there are number of highly respected historians who say exactly that.

You just can't seem to remember who they are.

 

[Discombobulated]

Actually the op is foolish the Supreme Court ruled that Congress can in fact decide to allow States to leave if it chooses to.

1. Where does the supreme court get the authority to decide that issue.?

2. Why should a member only be allowed to leave a club if the club says it's ok.?

think

1. Articles III and VI of the US Constitution.

2. Because the United States is not a 'club,' it's a Republic.

The relationship between and among the states is also a relationship between and among all the citizens of the United States, where a state has no authority, consistent with a republican form of government, to take from a citizen his status as a citizen against his will, nor interfere with the relationship between the citizens of one state and all the citizens of the entire Nation.

Dead wrong. The Constitution is an agreement between the states, and nothing more.

You don't seem to know much. But it might not be too late for you to learn, so let's begin your history lesson now. We'll start with some lectures about the causes of secession, so pay attention because there will be a quiz later.

Pre-Civil War Virginia Showdowns Video C-SPAN.org

 

[bripat9643]

[

So then secession was all about tariffs.......nothing to do with slavery.

That's about right. Tariffs and states rights is what the south was concerned with. Slavery had little to do with the CW. I proved that in an earlier post. THINK

[

The Confederacy was based on nothing but emotion. Secession began over what some people imagined Lincoln might do......and nothing more.

You idiot. The south had been talking about secession for decades due to the onerous tariffs the north was imposing on it.

There are no legitimate historians anywhere who would be stupid enough to support your hair brained theories regarding secession.

Actually, there are number of highly respected historians who say exactly that.

You just can't seem to remember who they are.

Thomas diLorenzo, for one.

 

[bripat9643]

Actually the op is foolish the Supreme Court ruled that Congress can in fact decide to allow States to leave if it chooses to.

1. Where does the supreme court get the authority to decide that issue.?

2. Why should a member only be allowed to leave a club if the club says it's ok.?

think

1. Articles III and VI of the US Constitution.

2. Because the United States is not a 'club,' it's a Republic.

The relationship between and among the states is also a relationship between and among all the citizens of the United States, where a state has no authority, consistent with a republican form of government, to take from a citizen his status as a citizen against his will, nor interfere with the relationship between the citizens of one state and all the citizens of the entire Nation.

Dead wrong. The Constitution is an agreement between the states, and nothing more.

You don't seem to know much. But it might not be too late for you to learn, so let's begin your history lesson now. We'll start with some lectures about the causes of secession, so pay attention because there will be a quiz later.

Pre-Civil War Virginia Showdowns Video C-SPAN.org

What does that have to do with whether the Constitution is an agreement between states?

 

[Politico]

Scotland Was Allowed To Vote On Secession. Why Can't The American States?

If you ever read the constitution of the country you claim you live in you would not be asking the question.

 

[bripat9643]

Scotland Was Allowed To Vote On Secession. Why Can't The American States?

If you ever read the constitution of the country you claim you live in you would not be asking the question.

Apparently you haven't read it. Where does it say a state can't secede?

 

[Discombobulated]

Scotland Was Allowed To Vote On Secession. Why Can't The American States?

If you ever read the constitution of the country you claim you live in you would not be asking the question.

Apparently you haven't read it. Where does it say a state can't secede?

Apparently you have no idea what the Constitution looks like. Where is the constitutional provision that allows for secession?

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[

Apparently you have no idea what the Constitution looks like. Where is the constitutional provision that allows for secession?

HAHAHA. What a stupid question. Secession was never mentioned in the constitution since the founding fathers took it for granted that states had the right to secede. They had just fought a war for secession 10 years earlier you ignorant numbskull.

 

[Discombobulated]

[

Apparently you have no idea what the Constitution looks like. Where is the constitutional provision that allows for secession?

HAHAHA. What a stupid question. Secession was never mentioned in the constitution since the founding fathers took it for granted that states had the right to secede. They had just fought a war for secession 10 years earlier you ignorant numbskull.

I see, the founding fathers were very specific on so many points but just took that one for granted. I'm sure that makes sense if you don't think about it.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

[

So then secession was all about tariffs.......nothing to do with slavery.

That's about right. Tariffs and states rights is what the south was concerned with. Slavery had little to do with the CW. I proved that in an earlier post. THINK

You should probably read the secession documents that the Southern States adopted when seceding from the Union. For a fun drinking game, take a shot every time the word slave, negro, or slavery is mentioned. When you're done, let me know once you're out of the ICU.

Slavery was far from the only issue the Civil War hinged on, but if you think it was entirely irrelevant to the Civil War then you're engaging in revisionist history. The documents passed by the States themselves refutes your premise.

 

[Discombobulated]

[

So then secession was all about tariffs.......nothing to do with slavery.

That's about right. Tariffs and states rights is what the south was concerned with. Slavery had little to do with the CW. I proved that in an earlier post. THINK

You should probably read the secession documents that the Southern States adopted when seceding from the Union. For a fun drinking game, take a shot every time the word slave, negro, or slavery is mentioned. When you're done, let me know once you're out of the ICU.

Slavery was far from the only issue the Civil War hinged on, but if you think it was entirely irrelevant to the Civil War then you're engaging in revisionist history. The documents passed by the States themselves refutes your premise.

No mention of slave, negro, or slavery. Instead they indulged themselves in euphemisms like "free commerce" and "property rights".

 

[bripat9643]

Scotland Was Allowed To Vote On Secession. Why Can't The American States?

If you ever read the constitution of the country you claim you live in you would not be asking the question.

Apparently you haven't read it. Where does it say a state can't secede?

Apparently you have no idea what the Constitution looks like. Where is the constitutional provision that allows for secession?

So anything that isn't specifically allowed is prohibited? Apparently gay marriage is also prohibited, right?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I see, the founding fathers were very specific on so many points but just took that one for granted. I'm sure that makes sense if you don't think about it.

10th Amendment.

A few things to consider though when folks debate secession:
1. The Constitution deliberately forms a stronger centralized government. This was a conscious decision the Founders made following the actual failure of the Articles of Confederation. The Federal Government was never meant to just represent an alliance of the states and indeed, the States did surrender much of their sovereignty in the formation of the Federal Government.
2. Even with point 1 though, the Southern States were not the first to consider secession. As the War of 1812 wound down towards the end, the Northeast was considering secession from the Union. That particular war was considered ill advised and detrimental to their economy. In 1812, you are still relatively close to the formation of the Federal Government. That at least hints that the secession issue was not very clear cut prior to the Civil War.
3. It is also worth mentioning that secession was a common threat by the South. When the institution of slavery came under scrutiny or became imperiled by circumstance, the South would frequently threaten to secede. This also hints that the secession issue was not very clear cut prior to the Civil War. It also makes clear that the Southern States took slavery seriously enough as an issue they were willing to sever ties with the Union over it.

All in all, I do not see the question of whether a state can or can not secede from the Union as being a clear cut issue. I do think that in all practicality any State wishing to leave would have to negotiate with the Federal Government or risk military or economic sanctions that would cripple or destroy the fledgling nation. In addition, any State or Region that did secede would find itself at the mercy of the very recent trend toward the formation of large economic units. They would simply have no leverage in negotiations with the EU, China, or Russia and would swiftly find themselves at the mercy of hostile foreign powers.

 

[Discombobulated]

Scotland Was Allowed To Vote On Secession. Why Can't The American States?

If you ever read the constitution of the country you claim you live in you would not be asking the question.

Apparently you haven't read it. Where does it say a state can't secede?

Apparently you have no idea what the Constitution looks like. Where is the constitutional provision that allows for secession?

So anything that isn't specifically allowed is prohibited? Apparently gay marriage is also prohibited, right?

I can't imagine how an issue like gay marriage even begins to compare with the foundation of a confederation of states as a republic.

 

[LuckyDuck01!]

The reason for the Civil War was economics. Conflicts were arising across the country over the slavery issue. The south wanted to continue with free labor after paying an initial price for a human being and further keep any children the slave had as free laborers in-perpetuity. The south didn't believe that non-whites had the same rights as whites.
While there are those who would like for their states to secede, their reason is most likely for the same reason the southern states originally wanted to secede and that is evil.

 

[bripat9643]

Scotland Was Allowed To Vote On Secession. Why Can't The American States?

If you ever read the constitution of the country you claim you live in you would not be asking the question.

Apparently you haven't read it. Where does it say a state can't secede?

Apparently you have no idea what the Constitution looks like. Where is the constitutional provision that allows for secession?

So anything that isn't specifically allowed is prohibited? Apparently gay marriage is also prohibited, right?

I can't imagine how an issue like gay marriage even begins to compare with the foundation of a confederation of states as a republic.

Make up your mind. Either it has to be explicitly permitted or it doesn't. You want to pick and choose.

 

[Discombobulated]

If you ever read the constitution of the country you claim you live in you would not be asking the question.

Apparently you haven't read it. Where does it say a state can't secede?

Apparently you have no idea what the Constitution looks like. Where is the constitutional provision that allows for secession?

So anything that isn't specifically allowed is prohibited? Apparently gay marriage is also prohibited, right?

I can't imagine how an issue like gay marriage even begins to compare with the foundation of a confederation of states as a republic.

Make up your mind. Either it has to be explicitly permitted or it doesn't. You want to pick and choose.

I sure that makes perfect sense to a small petulant child.

 

[bripat9643]

Apparently you haven't read it. Where does it say a state can't secede?

Apparently you have no idea what the Constitution looks like. Where is the constitutional provision that allows for secession?

So anything that isn't specifically allowed is prohibited? Apparently gay marriage is also prohibited, right?

I can't imagine how an issue like gay marriage even begins to compare with the foundation of a confederation of states as a republic.

Make up your mind. Either it has to be explicitly permitted or it doesn't. You want to pick and choose.

I sure that makes perfect sense to a small petulant child.

Translation: you don't want your rule applied to stuff you don't want it applied to. You fully realize your claims are totally irrational, so you hurl ad hominems at anyone who points that out.

 

[Discombobulated]

Apparently you have no idea what the Constitution looks like. Where is the constitutional provision that allows for secession?

So anything that isn't specifically allowed is prohibited? Apparently gay marriage is also prohibited, right?

I can't imagine how an issue like gay marriage even begins to compare with the foundation of a confederation of states as a republic.

Make up your mind. Either it has to be explicitly permitted or it doesn't. You want to pick and choose.

I sure that makes perfect sense to a small petulant child.

Translation: you don't want your rule applied to stuff you don't want it applied to. You fully realize your claims are totally irrational, so you hurl ad hominems at anyone who points that out.

Your claim that in principle all things are of the same magnitude, scale and importance is childish.

 

[Discombobulated]

I have a suggestion for all the people who favor the idea of secession. If you fantasize about rebelling against the diabolical oppression of the federal government and starting your own little nation or kingdom or empire or whatever..... just do this: Move to another country, start a secession movement there and see if people like the idea.