SCOTUS Stupidity

[Ray From Cleveland]

Ok. Just so we're clear. Only religions officially recognized by the state get the special perks.

That sort of sounds like the opposite of the First Amendment.

Not at all. Having a religion (which is protected by the US Constitution) and making one up are two different things.

 

[dblack]

Not at all. Having a religion (which is protected by the US Constitution) and making one up are two different things.

All religions were made up at some point. When do they "graduate"? Why do you want government making that decision?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

All religions were made up at some point. When do they "graduate"? Why do you want government making that decision?

I'll tell you what: Try starting your own religion and not pay taxes on any money you receive and then tell me you can make up your own religion.

 

[dblack]

I'll tell you what: Try starting your own religion and not pay taxes on any money you receive and then tell me you can make up your own religion.

Exactly. Why? Why do we have government in the business of deciding which religions deserve special perks and which don't. Isn't that pretty much the opposite of the First Amendment?

 

[ThisIsMe]

I don't know what part of "Congress shall pass no law ..." they don't get.

Because congress isn’t establishing a religion, and the cotus says people have the right to exercise their religion.

But I already know where this conversation is going, so, since religion is a protected right in this country but you want to allow businesses to not make accommodations for that right, the let’s just say that businesses don’t have to make accommodations for any of the rights the cotus affords, deal?

 

[dblack]

Because congress isn’t establishing a religion, and the cotus says people have the right to exercise their religion.

But I already know where this conversation is going, so, since religion is a protected right in this country but you want to allow businesses to not make accommodations for that right, the let’s just say that businesses don’t have to make accommodations for any of the rights the cotus affords, deal?

Well, it's not up to the two of us, but yeah - that's the what the Constitution says.

The notion that Constitutional rights require a business, or anyone else for that matter, to cater to your wishes is nonsense. Freedom of Speech, for example, doesn't require newspapers or websites to publish my bloviating. The Second Amendment doesn't demand that gun companies provide me with a gun. And Freedom of Religion doesn't require that anyone accommodate my religious practices. In all these cases, the right in question just means the federal government can't pass laws limiting said freedom: the feds can't silence speech they don't like, they can't ban guns and they can't regulate religion. But it doesn't mean that anyone must empower you to use these rights, or otherwise accommodate your ambitions.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well, it's not up to the two of us, but yeah - that's the what the Constitution says.

The notion that Constitutional rights require a business, or anyone else for that matter, to cater to your wishes is nonsense. Freedom of Speech, for example, doesn't require newspapers or websites to publish my bloviating. The Second Amendment doesn't demand that gun companies provide me with a gun. And Freedom of Religion doesn't require that anyone accommodate my religious practices. In all these cases, the right in question just means the federal government can't pass laws limiting said freedom: the feds can't silence speech they don't like, they can't ban guns and they can't regulate religion. But it doesn't mean that anyone must empower you to use these rights, or otherwise accommodate your ambitions.

Well when you are able to reverse all the government control over our businesses, then come after those of faith. Let's make women work until the day they give birth. If a company decides to make somebody work a night shift they had no intention of working to take care of their sick parent(s), screw them. Let mom or dad die because my company wants me to work second shift after our nurse goes home for the day.

 

[dblack]

Well when you are able to reverse all the government control over our businesses, then come after those of faith.

???

Let's make women work until the day they give birth.

Why?

If a company decides to make somebody work a night shift they had no intention of working to take care of their sick parent(s), screw them. Let mom or dad die because my company wants me to work second shift after our nurse goes home for the day.

What in the world are you going on about?

 

[Marener]

Not at all. Having a religion (which is protected by the US Constitution) and making one up are two different things.

All religions are made up.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I'll tell you what: Try starting your own religion and not pay taxes on any money you receive and then tell me you can make up your own religion.

A friend of mine started his own religion.

Even got certified as a pastor in the religion so he could preform marriages and sign marriage licenses.

There are more than 200 religions recognized by the US Govt.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

If a company decides to make somebody work a night shift they had no intention of working to take care of their sick parent(s), screw them. Let mom or dad die because my company wants me to work second shift after our nurse goes home for the day.

Ironically it happens with nurses all the time. My wife is starts two weeks of nightshifts on Monday because they are so short handed on night shift they are making all the day shift nurses do this.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

???

Why?

What in the world are you going on about?

I'm going on about the world you'd like to see. Here are your replies to other government regulations I posted in post #120:

This is wrong as well.

So is this.

Ditto

And again.

Nope. It's none of their business.

So in other words you apparently want no government involvement with business. They should be allowed to do anything they want with no protections for the workers.

And please quit splitting up all my posts. Certainly you can find a way to reply without doing that. I did.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

All religions are made up.

Of course they are, but were established many, many years ago. Not some drunk at a bar saying "I'm going to start my own religion!"

 

[Marener]

Of course they are, but were established many, many years ago. Not some drunk at a bar saying "I'm going to start my own religion!"

Some drunk at a bar saying “I’m going start my own religion” is no different just because they did it many years ago.

The state does not determine what is a legitimate religion.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

A friend of mine started his own religion.

Even got certified as a pastor in the religion so he could preform marriages and sign marriage licenses.

There are more than 200 religions recognized by the US Govt.

Bullshit. My cousin got certified to perform marriages and he didn't need to start any religion or even subscribe to one to get his license. There are dozens of these guys all over Vegas that marry drunks day in and day out. In my cousins case he started an entertainment business here and was quite successful. So he got his license for people that wanted to marry inside his establishment instead of city hall or a church.

 

[dblack]

So in other words you apparently want no government involvement with business. They should be allowed to do anything they want with no protections for the workers.

Exactly. The "protections" are socialist bullshit.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Some drunk at a bar saying “I’m going start my own religion” is no different just because they did it many years ago.

The state does not determine what is a legitimate religion.

That's not what the IRS says:

Certain characteristics are generally attributed to churches. These attributes of a church have been developed by the IRS and by court decisions. They include:

• 
  Distinct legal existence
  
• 
  Recognized creed and form of worship
  
• 
  Definite and distinct ecclesiastical government
  
• 
  Formal code of doctrine and discipline
  
• 
  Distinct religious history
  
• 
  Membership not associated with any other church or denomination
  
• 
  Organization of ordained ministers
  
• 
  Ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed courses of study
  
• 
  Literature of its own
  
• 
  Established places of worship
  
• 
  Regular congregations
  
• 
  Regular religious services
  
• 
  Sunday schools for the religious instruction of the young
  
• 
  Schools for the preparation of its members
  

The IRS generally uses a combination of these characteristics, together with other facts and circumstances, to determine whether an organization is considered a church for federal tax purposes.

"Churches" Defined | Internal Revenue Service

Discussion of the difference between churches and religious orgnaizations.

www.irs.gov

 

[laferia52]

Look for yet another bad decision from the Supremes:

Supreme Court showdown over Sabbath could change workplaces across US

A former U.S. postal worker is asking the Supreme Court to require employers to be more accommodating of religiously observant workers

abcnews.go.com

The idea that an employer should be required to accommodate the religious practices of employees is ridiculous, and as a law is a direct violation of the First Amendment. It's part of the inversion - decimation - of individual rights. We're moving away from equal rights, that apply to everyone, to special rights for special people - identity politics.

so gerald groff wanted the Postal service to accommodate him . so was the person that had to run his route to accommodate him, was that person going to be accommodated too. so if everyone wants to be accommodated who the hell is going to run his route on Sunday. come on cry me a river

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Exactly. The "protections" are socialist bullshit.

Fine, that's all I said. If a woman who just had a baby isn't back at work in a week, fire the bitch. Right? If you have to get a surgery done, you're fired for taking too much time off of work. And let's get rid of minimum wage and time and a half laws while we're at it. 12 hour shifts with no breaks and it's up to your supervisor whether you can use the rest room facilities or not.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Bullshit. My cousin got certified to perform marriages and he didn't need to start any religion or even subscribe to one to get his license. There are dozens of these guys all over Vegas that marry drunks day in and day out. In my cousins case he started an entertainment business here and was quite successful. So he got his license for people that wanted to marry inside his establishment instead of city hall or a church.

He wanted to be a priest in his religion, thus he got it recognized.