Seek Peace, Pursue Justice in Israel-Palestine

[toastman]

Sure it does but Hamas isn't it.

I consider killing innocent civilians INTENTIONALLY in the name of Allah, to be terrorism.
During the second intifada, we saw their favorite tactic, suicide bombs.
I consider it terrorism when someone straps themselves with a suicide vest packed with nails and ball bearings and blows themselves up in the most packed civilian locations (Bus, Cafe).
I consider launching rockets indiscriminately into civilian areas to be terrorism.
Cheering the death of innocent civilians (and dont deny that they have done that after every successful attack against innocent Israelis) is also something terrorists do.

The killing of innocent people and terrorizing them for the means of achieving what you think is a legit goal is terrorism.

What do YOU consider terrorism ???

I have never seen that particular description.

Did you make it up yourself?

Then maybe it's time you got you stopped reading Arab propaganda websites that refer to those acts as Freedom Fighting

So if what I said isn't considered terrorism in your eyes, then what category do those actions fall under?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,

The answer to this question is complicated. There is no single internationally recognized definition for "terrorism" like the US has. In the international realm, you have to do a comparison between two General Assembly Resolutions and apply it to the particular suspect activity.

• Measures to eliminate international terrorism: A/RES/46/51 9 December 1991 LINK ---> A/RES/46/51. Measures to eliminate international terrorism
  
• Declaration on Principles of International Law Freindly Relations and Cooperation Among States in the Charter of the UN A/RES/2625 LINK ---> United Nations Official Document)

Good question.

Define terrorism.

How does Hamas fit that definition?

Are we going to play this game again ? lol
The fact that Hamas is a terrorist organization is not up for debate !

I knew you would flunk out on this one. That is why I asked.

(COMMENT)

In the case of Hamas, I've copied the two applicable citation; the first leading to the second. We start with the first because of the description the Palestinians give us of themselves. They claim that they have an inalienable right to self-determination and independence of all peoples under foreign occupation. In that case, the International Law (A/RES/46/51) leads us directly to the clauses under International Law [A/RES/2625(XXV)].

If Hamas is in compliance in both sets of laws, then it is not a "terrorist" group in a general sense and does not require countermeasures.

However, Hamas is not in compliance with A/RES/2625(XXV).

• Hamas uses both threat and force against the territorial integrity of the State of Israel.
• Hamas uses both threat and force against the political independence of the State of Israel.
• Hamas has chosen to settle their international disputes with the State of Israel through the calculated use of asymmetric means, and the open use of conventional warfare in such a manner that international peace, security, and justice is endangered.
  
  

  Hamas combines Palestinian nationalism with Islamic fundamentalism. Its founding charter commits the group to the destruction of Israel, the replacement of the PA with an Islamist state on the West Bank and Gaza, and to raising "the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine."
  
  LINK ---> Hamas - Council on Foreign Relations

Reaffirming also the inalienable right to self-determination and independence of all peoples under colonial and racist regimes and other forms of alien domination and foreign occupation, and upholding the legitimacy of their struggle, in particular the struggle of national liberation movements, in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter and the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Cooperation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,

SOURCE: A/RES/46/51. Measures to eliminate international terrorism

(a) The principle that States shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations,

(b) The principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered,

SOURCE: United Nations Official Document)

Separate and Independent Opinion

In relation to the firing of rockets and mortars into southern Israel by Palestinian armed groups operating in the Gaza Strip, the Mission finds that the Palestinian armed groups fail to distinguish between military targets and the civilian population and civilian objects in southern Israel. The launching of rockets and mortars which cannot be aimed with sufficient precisions at military targets breaches the fundamental principle of distinction. Where there is no intended military target and the rockets and mortars are launched into civilian areas, they constitute a deliberate attack against the civilian population. These actions would constitute war crimes and may amount to crimes against humanity.

The Mission concludes that the rocket and mortars attacks, launched by Palestinian armed groups operating from Gaza, have caused terror in the affected communities of southern Israel. The attacks have caused loss of life and physical and mental injury to civilians as well as damaging private houses, religious buildings and property, and eroded the economic and cultural life of the affected communities and severely affected economic and social rights of the population.

SOURCE: Report of the United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict --- Conclusions and recommendations
LINK ---> http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/12session/A-HRC-12-48_ADVANCE2.pdf

No matter how you slice it, Hamas is an organization that has terrorist connections, uses terrorist strategies, and conducts terrorist operations. One can claim that it doesn't fit a specific definition; but it is what it is.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,

The answer to this question is complicated. There is no single internationally recognized definition for "terrorism" like the US has. In the international realm, you have to do a comparison between two General Assembly Resolutions and apply it to the particular suspect activity.

• Measures to eliminate international terrorism: A/RES/46/51 9 December 1991 LINK ---> A/RES/46/51. Measures to eliminate international terrorism
  
• Declaration on Principles of International Law Freindly Relations and Cooperation Among States in the Charter of the UN A/RES/2625 LINK ---> United Nations Official Document)

Are we going to play this game again ? lol
The fact that Hamas is a terrorist organization is not up for debate !

I knew you would flunk out on this one. That is why I asked.

(COMMENT)

In the case of Hamas, I've copied the two applicable citation; the first leading to the second. We start with the first because of the description the Palestinians give us of themselves. They claim that they have an inalienable right to self-determination and independence of all peoples under foreign occupation. In that case, the International Law (A/RES/46/51) leads us directly to the clauses under International Law [A/RES/2625(XXV)].

If Hamas is in compliance in both sets of laws, then it is not a "terrorist" group in a general sense and does not require countermeasures.

However, Hamas is not in compliance with A/RES/2625(XXV).

• Hamas uses both threat and force against the territorial integrity of the State of Israel.
• Hamas uses both threat and force against the political independence of the State of Israel.
• Hamas has chosen to settle their international disputes with the State of Israel through the calculated use of asymmetric means, and the open use of conventional warfare in such a manner that international peace, security, and justice is endangered.

No matter how you slice it, Hamas is an organization that has terrorist connections, uses terrorist strategies, and conducts terrorist operations. One can claim that it doesn't fit a specific definition; but it is what it is.

Most Respectfully,
R

You have references to documents but did not provide links.

[*]Hamas uses both threat and force against the territorial integrity of the State of Israel.

Israel has no land or borders. What territorial integrity are you talking about?

[*]Hamas uses both threat and force against the political independence of the State of Israel.

Inside Palestine?

[*]Hamas has chosen to settle their international disputes with the State of Israel through the calculated use of asymmetric means, and the open use of conventional warfare in such a manner that international peace, security, and justice is endangered.

There is no international dispute. Hamas does not operate outside of Palestine's borders and is no threat to international peace.

From your only link:

Reaffirming the principle of self-determination of peoples as enshrined
in the Charter of the United Nations,

Reaffirming also the inalienable right to self-determination and
independence of all peoples under colonial and racist regimes and other forms
of alien domination and foreign occupation, and upholding the legitimacy of
their struggle, in particular the struggle of national liberation movements,
in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter and the
Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations
and Cooperation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United
Nations,

This fits much better.

Paul

 

[Hossfly]

P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,

The answer to this question is complicated. There is no single internationally recognized definition for "terrorism" like the US has. In the international realm, you have to do a comparison between two General Assembly Resolutions and apply it to the particular suspect activity.

• Measures to eliminate international terrorism: A/RES/46/51 9 December 1991 LINK ---> A/RES/46/51. Measures to eliminate international terrorism
  
• Declaration on Principles of International Law Freindly Relations and Cooperation Among States in the Charter of the UN A/RES/2625 LINK ---> United Nations Official Document)

I knew you would flunk out on this one. That is why I asked.

(COMMENT)

In the case of Hamas, I've copied the two applicable citation; the first leading to the second. We start with the first because of the description the Palestinians give us of themselves. They claim that they have an inalienable right to self-determination and independence of all peoples under foreign occupation. In that case, the International Law (A/RES/46/51) leads us directly to the clauses under International Law [A/RES/2625(XXV)].

If Hamas is in compliance in both sets of laws, then it is not a "terrorist" group in a general sense and does not require countermeasures.

However, Hamas is not in compliance with A/RES/2625(XXV).

• Hamas uses both threat and force against the territorial integrity of the State of Israel.
• Hamas uses both threat and force against the political independence of the State of Israel.
• Hamas has chosen to settle their international disputes with the State of Israel through the calculated use of asymmetric means, and the open use of conventional warfare in such a manner that international peace, security, and justice is endangered.

No matter how you slice it, Hamas is an organization that has terrorist connections, uses terrorist strategies, and conducts terrorist operations. One can claim that it doesn't fit a specific definition; but it is what it is.

Most Respectfully,
R

You have references to documents but did not provide links.


Israel has no land or borders. What territorial integrity are you talking about?


Inside Palestine?

[*]Hamas has chosen to settle their international disputes with the State of Israel through the calculated use of asymmetric means, and the open use of conventional warfare in such a manner that international peace, security, and justice is endangered.

There is no international dispute. Hamas does not operate outside of Palestine's borders and is no threat to international peace.

From your only link:

Reaffirming the principle of self-determination of peoples as enshrined
in the Charter of the United Nations,

Reaffirming also the inalienable right to self-determination and
independence of all peoples under colonial and racist regimes and other forms
of alien domination and foreign occupation, and upholding the legitimacy of
their struggle, in particular the struggle of national liberation movements,
in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter and the
Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations
and Cooperation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United
Nations,

This fits much better.

Paul

Whenever I read Tinmore's mewlings to Rocco about peace and justice in Israel/Palestine, it resembles an imaginary vision I have of Sherri dressing down and instructing the Supreme Court. Think about it.

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,

The answer to this question is complicated. There is no single internationally recognized definition for "terrorism" like the US has. In the international realm, you have to do a comparison between two General Assembly Resolutions and apply it to the particular suspect activity.

• Measures to eliminate international terrorism: A/RES/46/51 9 December 1991 LINK ---> A/RES/46/51. Measures to eliminate international terrorism
  
• Declaration on Principles of International Law Freindly Relations and Cooperation Among States in the Charter of the UN A/RES/2625 LINK ---> United Nations Official Document)

(COMMENT)

In the case of Hamas, I've copied the two applicable citation; the first leading to the second. We start with the first because of the description the Palestinians give us of themselves. They claim that they have an inalienable right to self-determination and independence of all peoples under foreign occupation. In that case, the International Law (A/RES/46/51) leads us directly to the clauses under International Law [A/RES/2625(XXV)].

If Hamas is in compliance in both sets of laws, then it is not a "terrorist" group in a general sense and does not require countermeasures.

However, Hamas is not in compliance with A/RES/2625(XXV).

• Hamas uses both threat and force against the territorial integrity of the State of Israel.
• Hamas uses both threat and force against the political independence of the State of Israel.
• Hamas has chosen to settle their international disputes with the State of Israel through the calculated use of asymmetric means, and the open use of conventional warfare in such a manner that international peace, security, and justice is endangered.

No matter how you slice it, Hamas is an organization that has terrorist connections, uses terrorist strategies, and conducts terrorist operations. One can claim that it doesn't fit a specific definition; but it is what it is.

Most Respectfully,
R

You have references to documents but did not provide links.


Israel has no land or borders. What territorial integrity are you talking about?


Inside Palestine?


There is no international dispute. Hamas does not operate outside of Palestine's borders and is no threat to international peace.

From your only link:

Reaffirming the principle of self-determination of peoples as enshrined
in the Charter of the United Nations,

Reaffirming also the inalienable right to self-determination and
independence of all peoples under colonial and racist regimes and other forms
of alien domination and foreign occupation, and upholding the legitimacy of
their struggle, in particular the struggle of national liberation movements,
in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter and the
Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations
and Cooperation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United
Nations,

This fits much better.

Paul

Whenever I read Tinmore's mewlings to Rocco about peace and justice in Israel/Palestine, it resembles an imaginary vision I have of Sherri dressing down and instructing the Supreme Court. Think about it.

Tinmore simply cannot handle the fact that he has lost every argument with Rocco. Over here, we call that a sore loser !

 

[P F Tinmore]

You have references to documents but did not provide links.


Israel has no land or borders. What territorial integrity are you talking about?


Inside Palestine?


There is no international dispute. Hamas does not operate outside of Palestine's borders and is no threat to international peace.

From your only link:



This fits much better.

Paul

Whenever I read Tinmore's mewlings to Rocco about peace and justice in Israel/Palestine, it resembles an imaginary vision I have of Sherri dressing down and instructing the Supreme Court. Think about it.

Tinmore simply cannot handle the fact that he has lost every argument with Rocco. Over here, we call that a sore loser !

Examples?

 

[toastman]

Whenever I read Tinmore's mewlings to Rocco about peace and justice in Israel/Palestine, it resembles an imaginary vision I have of Sherri dressing down and instructing the Supreme Court. Think about it.

Tinmore simply cannot handle the fact that he has lost every argument with Rocco. Over here, we call that a sore loser !

Examples?

The latest example is the claim that Israel has nor borders. Rocco did a good job proving otherwise, and your counter-argument was...well you didn't really have one

 

[P F Tinmore]

Tinmore simply cannot handle the fact that he has lost every argument with Rocco. Over here, we call that a sore loser !

Examples?

The latest example is the claim that Israel has nor borders. Rocco did a good job proving otherwise, and your counter-argument was...well you didn't really have one

Where?

 

[toastman]

Examples?

The latest example is the claim that Israel has nor borders. Rocco did a good job proving otherwise, and your counter-argument was...well you didn't really have one

Where?

Where what?? In this thread, when we were discussing Israels borders ! Try to keep up !!

 

[Hossfly]

Tinmore, it's not too late to ask for your money back and save face.

 

[toastman]

Tinmore, it's not too late to ask for your money back and save face.

Did you see his latest comment of how Israel has no land either??

So according to Tinnie, Israel has no civilians, land or borders ! I've learned so much from Tinnie !!

 

[P F Tinmore]

Tinmore, it's not too late to ask for your money back and save face.

Did you see his latest comment of how Israel has no land either??

So according to Tinnie, Israel has no civilians, land or borders ! I've learned so much from Tinnie !!

Indeed, stick around.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The latest example is the claim that Israel has nor borders. Rocco did a good job proving otherwise, and your counter-argument was...well you didn't really have one

Where?

Where what?? In this thread, when we were discussing Israels borders ! Try to keep up !!

Like when you ducked out on this question.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/israe...stice-in-israel-palestine-12.html#post7160429
Your answer could have clarified this issue.

 

[Hossfly]

Tinmore, it's not too late to ask for your money back and save face.

Did you see his latest comment of how Israel has no land either??

So according to Tinnie, Israel has no civilians, land or borders ! I've learned so much from Tinnie !!

Indeed, stick around.

Indeed.

 

[toastman]

Where?

Where what?? In this thread, when we were discussing Israels borders ! Try to keep up !!

Like when you ducked out on this question.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/israe...stice-in-israel-palestine-12.html#post7160429
Your answer could have clarified this issue.

*yawn*

See post #110

What else ya got ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Where what?? In this thread, when we were discussing Israels borders ! Try to keep up !!

Like when you ducked out on this question.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/israe...stice-in-israel-palestine-12.html#post7160429
Your answer could have clarified this issue.

*yawn*

See post #110

What else ya got ?

I did.

Where does it say that Israel has borders?

 

[toastman]

Like when you ducked out on this question.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/israe...stice-in-israel-palestine-12.html#post7160429
Your answer could have clarified this issue.

*yawn*

See post #110

What else ya got ?

I did.

Where does it say that Israel has borders?

The treaties between the two countries is what gives them borders..

Where does it say that those treaties DON'T give them borders???

 

[P F Tinmore]

*yawn*

See post #110

What else ya got ?

I did.

Where does it say that Israel has borders?

The treaties between the two countries is what gives them borders..

Where does it say that those treaties DON'T give them borders???

Which treaties? Which passages?

You are not saying anything.

 

[toastman]

I did.

Where does it say that Israel has borders?

The treaties between the two countries is what gives them borders..

Where does it say that those treaties DON'T give them borders???

Which treaties? Which passages?

You are not saying anything.

Israel?Jordan Treaty of Peace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Egypt?Israel Peace Treaty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[toastman]

YOu're a massive idiot Tinmore !