Zone1 Separation of Church and State?

[Foxfyre]

There's zero evidence that the Founding Fathers wanted all government officials to be religious. Good values don't necessarily correspond with someone's religious status or how devout they are to a particular religion.

A person can be ethical, civil, and humane, without being religious. Many of the founding fathers would've been considered secular, liberal heretics today. Thomas Jefferson wrote his own gospel, deleting all of the miracles from the text. Benjamin Franklin was an 18th-century secularist. George Washington was a 33rd-degree Mason. The name "Colombia" is the name of a goddess:

"By the time of the American Revolutionary War, Columbia had become a symbol of the new, independent country. In form, Columbia is a quasi-mythical, adult female personification of the United States and the values of the people who live there. She wears roman-styled robes which are pure white or red, white and blue."

Columbia | World War I Poster | Pritzker Military Museum & Library | Chicago

Explore the evolution of Columbia as a symbol of the United States.

www.pritzkermilitary.org

Washington DC is stock-full of occultic, masonic symbols and architecture. Our currency is as well:

View attachment 999826

View attachment 999828​

Were there some traditional, more fundamentalist, conservative Christians amongst the signers of the US Constitution? Yes. But many of the well-known Founding Fathers weren't religious Christians at all. They would be condemned today as heretics or apostates.

The "In God We Trust" was added to our coins in the 1950s, in response to Soviet secularism. It was a way of saying, to the American working class that capitalism is pro-God and communism isn't. We trust in God,, they don't.

There is plenty of evidence that most Founding Fathers wanted those in government and all Americans to be people of faith but liberty demanded that it not be a requirement for anybody. Anyone who studies the Founding documents knows that. More than half had had at least some sort of Divinity School training. And to a man they embraced Christian concepts, values, ideals, i.e. concepts of "The Enlightenment' that strongly incorporated those Christian concepts, values, ideas. Your concepts of our Motto, Columbus etc. are a different discussion.

The fact is the world was a pretty savage and dog eat dog--survival of the fittest--the strong ruled over the weak, etc.--before Christian concepts, values, ideals, teachings were introduced into societies. Despite its own more militant history at times, Christianity has influenced and modified other religious groups including ancient religions like Paganism and Hinduism as well as less ancient sects such as Buddhism and Islam. The vast majority of charities and others doing humanitarian work arises out of Christian faith and/or Christian influence.

That people who do not identify as Christian now can be ethical, civil, humane almost certainly is because of Christian influence on the culture in which they were born and raised. Christianity remains the largest religious group on Earth and the Bible the No. 1 best selling book on Earth to this day. Likely none other than small primitive isolated tribes have not been affected by it.

 

[TruthNotBS]

There is plenty of evidence that most Founding Fathers wanted those in government and all Americans to be people of faith but liberty demanded that it not be a requirement for anybody. Anyone who studies the Founding documents knows that. More than half had had at least some sort of Divinity School training. And to a man they embraced Christian concepts, values, ideals, i.e. concepts of "The Enlightenment' that strongly incorporated those Christian concepts, values, ideas. Your concepts of our Motto, Columbus etc. are a different discussion.

The fact is the world was a pretty savage and dog eat dog--survival of the fittest--the strong ruled over the weak, etc.--before Christian concepts, values, ideals, teachings were introduced into societies. Despite its own more militant history at times, Christianity has influenced and modified other religious groups including ancient religions like Paganism and Hinduism as well as less ancient sects such as Buddhism and Islam. The vast majority of charities and others doing humanitarian work arises out of Christian faith and/or Christian influence.

That people who do not identify as Christian now can be ethical, civil, humane almost certainly is because of Christian influence on the culture in which they were born and raised. Christianity remains the largest religious group on Earth and the Bible the No. 1 best selling book on Earth to this day. Likely none other than small primitive isolated tribes have not been affected by it.

Many of the Founding Fathers would be considered heretics today by practically all devout Evangelical Christians. You flippantly dismiss that, including all of the occultic, pagan elements connected to the founding of this nation. Morality, and ethics, aren't unique to Christianity. They're found in many religions, even amongst pagans. The fact that Christianity is the largest religion in the world, with 2 billion adherents doesn't make its dogmas or sacred text true.

The Bible might be the most read book, but it's not the most memorized or vocally recited or sung book. The Quran is the most memorized book, and if every Quran disappeared from the planet today, in both hardcopy and digital (ALL QURANS) the Muslims would have another Quran, in both the Hafs and Warsh versions, published within a couple of days. That Quran would be republished in the original Arabic language, not a translation.

If all of the Bibles disappeared from the planet today, both hardcopy and digital, that would be the end of the Bible. Christians would be like "Huh", completely stumped. Hardly any Christians, if any, in the world today, have memorized the whole New Testament, or every word in the Old Testament. Hardly any, if any Christians memorize the Bible to that extent, especially not in the original Hebrew or Greek.

 

[Foxfyre]

Many of the Founding Fathers would be considered heretics today by practically all devout Evangelical Christians. You flippantly dismiss that, including all of the occultic, pagan elements connected to the founding of this nation. Morality, and ethics, aren't unique to Christianity. They're found in many religions, even amongst pagans. The fact that Christianity is the largest religion in the world, with 2 billion adherents doesn't make its dogmas or sacred text true.

The Bible might be the most read book, but it's not the most memorized or vocally recited or song book. The Quran is the most memorized book, and if every Quran disappeared from the planet today, in both hardcopy and digital (ALL QURANS) the Muslims would have another Quran, in both the Hafs and Warsh versions, published within a couple of days. That Quran would be republished in the original Arabic language, not a translation.

If all of the Bibles disappeared from the planet today, both hardcopy and digital, that would be the end of the Bible. Christians would be like "Huh", completely stumped. Hardly any Christians, if any, in the world today, have memorized the whole New Testament, or every word in the Old Testament. Hardly any, if any Christians memorize the Bible to that extent, especially not in the original Hebrew or Greek.

None of your opinion disputes anything in my post you are responding to.

 

[BreezeWood]

The fact is the world was a pretty savage and dog eat dog--survival of the fittest--the strong ruled over the weak, etc.--before Christian concepts, values, ideals, teachings were introduced into societies.

the fantasies of the desert dwellers ...

those religions more than any other organizations are responsible for aimless persecution and victimization of the innocent throughout history as witnessed by the present unrepentant, fallacious statements void of any reality from their past encounters.

the very reason those that wrote the u s constitution with deliberation wrote the 1st line of the 1st amendment - congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion - because of their draconian history and bibles they worship.

 

[ding]

Many of the Founding Fathers would be considered heretics today by practically all devout Evangelical Christians.

How many?

 

[TruthNotBS]

How many?

The most notable among them include:

1. Thomas Jefferson - He was a Deist who rejected the divinity of Jesus and questioned the traditional Christian doctrines like the Trinity. He even created his version of the Bible, known as the Jefferson Bible, which removed all miracles and references to Jesus' divinity.
2. Benjamin Franklin - Another Deist, Franklin believed in God but was skeptical of organized religion and orthodox Christian teachings. He did not accept the divinity of Christ.
3. John Adams - While Adams was a Unitarian, rejecting the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus.
4. George Washington - 33rd Degree Mason, likely a Deist.
5. Thomas Paine - Author of "Common Sense" and "The Age of Reason," Paine was an outspoken critic of organized religion and Christian doctrines. He was a strong advocate of Deism, denying the divine origins of the Bible and rejecting miracles, the Trinity, and the divinity of Jesus.
6. Ethan Allen - Known for his role in the American Revolution and as the leader of the Green Mountain Boys, Allen was also a Deist. He authored "Reason the Only Oracle of Man," where he argued against traditional Christianity and for the use of reason over religious faith.
7. James Monroe - The fifth President of the United States, Monroe's religious views leaned toward Deism. He was private about his faith but was known to be a supporter of religious tolerance and separation of church and state.
8. John Quincy Adams - Although the son of John Adams and raised in a Christian environment, John Quincy Adams leaned toward Unitarianism, rejecting the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus.
9. Alexander Hamilton - He was a Deist and did not emphasize orthodox Christian beliefs.
10. Gouverneur Morris - A key figure in drafting the U.S. Constitution, Morris was a Deist who was critical of organized religion and questioned many Christian doctrines, preferring reason over faith.
11. Elbridge Gerry - A signatory of the Declaration of Independence and the Articles of Confederation, Gerry was associated with Deism, showing skepticism towards traditional Christian beliefs and emphasizing moral philosophy over religious dogma.
12. Robert Treat Paine - A signer of the Declaration of Independence, Paine was a Unitarian, rejecting the Trinity and focusing on the moral teachings of Jesus rather than his divinity.
13. Richard Henry Lee - A leading figure in the Continental Congress and a signer of the Declaration of Independence, Lee was a Deist who advocated for religious freedom and was critical of religious institutions.
14. George Mason - Known as the "Father of the Bill of Rights," Mason was a Deist.
15. Edmund Randolph - The first Attorney General of the United States, Randolph was a Deist who believed in a rational approach to religion and supported the separation of church and state.
16. Francis Hopkinson - A signer of the Declaration of Independence, Hopkinson was a Deist who, while not overtly critical of Christianity, held beliefs that were more aligned with Enlightenment thinking than with orthodox Christianity.
17. Thomas Mifflin - A major figure in the American Revolution and the first Governor of Pennsylvania, Mifflin was known to have Deist leanings and supported religious tolerance and the separation of church and state.
18. William Livingston - A signer of the U.S. Constitution and the first Governor of New Jersey, Livingston was a Deist who advocated for religious liberty and was skeptical of the established churches of his time.

Many of the most well-known Founding Fathers were Deists and rejected Christian doctrines like the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus. They would get kicked out of church today in 2024, for being heretics, and apostates, even occultists, because many of them were high-ranking freemasons, like George Washington.

33rd Degree Freemason

​

 

[ding]

The most notable among them include:

1. Thomas Jefferson - He was a Deist who rejected the divinity of Jesus and questioned the traditional Christian doctrines like the Trinity. He even created his version of the Bible, known as the Jefferson Bible, which removed all miracles and references to Jesus' divinity.
2. Benjamin Franklin - Another Deist, Franklin believed in God but was skeptical of organized religion and orthodox Christian teachings. He did not accept the divinity of Christ.
3. John Adams - While Adams was a Unitarian, rejecting the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus.
4. George Washington - 33rd Degree Mason, likely a Deist.
5. Thomas Paine - Author of "Common Sense" and "The Age of Reason," Paine was an outspoken critic of organized religion and Christian doctrines. He was a strong advocate of Deism, denying the divine origins of the Bible and rejecting miracles, the Trinity, and the divinity of Jesus.
6. Ethan Allen - Known for his role in the American Revolution and as the leader of the Green Mountain Boys, Allen was also a Deist. He authored "Reason the Only Oracle of Man," where he argued against traditional Christianity and for the use of reason over religious faith.
7. James Monroe - The fifth President of the United States, Monroe's religious views leaned toward Deism. He was private about his faith but was known to be a supporter of religious tolerance and separation of church and state.
8. John Quincy Adams - Although the son of John Adams and raised in a Christian environment, John Quincy Adams leaned toward Unitarianism, rejecting the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus.
9. Alexander Hamilton - He was a Deist and did not emphasize orthodox Christian beliefs.
10. Gouverneur Morris - A key figure in drafting the U.S. Constitution, Morris was a Deist who was critical of organized religion and questioned many Christian doctrines, preferring reason over faith.
11. Elbridge Gerry - A signatory of the Declaration of Independence and the Articles of Confederation, Gerry was associated with Deism, showing skepticism towards traditional Christian beliefs and emphasizing moral philosophy over religious dogma.
12. Robert Treat Paine - A signer of the Declaration of Independence, Paine was a Unitarian, rejecting the Trinity and focusing on the moral teachings of Jesus rather than his divinity.
13. Richard Henry Lee - A leading figure in the Continental Congress and a signer of the Declaration of Independence, Lee was a Deist who advocated for religious freedom and was critical of religious institutions.
14. George Mason - Known as the "Father of the Bill of Rights," Mason was a Deist.
15. Edmund Randolph - The first Attorney General of the United States, Randolph was a Deist who believed in a rational approach to religion and supported the separation of church and state.
16. Francis Hopkinson - A signer of the Declaration of Independence, Hopkinson was a Deist who, while not overtly critical of Christianity, held beliefs that were more aligned with Enlightenment thinking than with orthodox Christianity.
17. Thomas Mifflin - A major figure in the American Revolution and the first Governor of Pennsylvania, Mifflin was known to have Deist leanings and supported religious tolerance and the separation of church and state.
18. William Livingston - A signer of the U.S. Constitution and the first Governor of New Jersey, Livingston was a Deist who advocated for religious liberty and was skeptical of the established churches of his time.

Many of the most well-known Founding Fathers were Deists and rejected Christian doctrines like the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus. They would get kicked out of church today in 2024, for being heretics, and apostates, even occultists, because many of them were high-ranking freemasons, like George Washington.

View attachment 1000202
33rd Degree Freemason

View attachment 1000212


View attachment 1000213​

And how many founding fathers were there in total?

 

[TruthNotBS]

And how many founding fathers were there in total?

Do I have to mention every single one of them? I mentioned the most notable ones. Do you actually believe the other ones were mainstream, traditional Evangelical Christians? I have a bridge to sell you here in Brooklyn.

 

[ding]

Do I have to mention every single one of them? I mentioned the most notable ones. Do you actually believe the other ones were mainstream, traditional Evangelical Christians? I have a bridge to sell you here in Brooklyn.

I'm trying to assess the basis of your "many" comment. So no, you don't have to list everyone of them a number will do quite nicely.

But how many of the ones you have listed by name believed in Nature’s God and that Nature's God to be a creating, particularly providential, and moralistic being, whose existence and causal relation to the world was essential to the foundations of natural-rights?

Thomas Jefferson and many of his contemporaries understood that the natural rights of man depended upon teleological considerations. So viewed, and accepting the premise that man's goal is being with his Creator for eternity, man has the duty to abide by His will and directions, because they are necessary to satisfy man's duties. Jefferson wrote that "the true office is to declare and enforce our natural rights and duties."24

The existence of natural duties and the relationship of rights to duties were quite apparent to Jefferson, and anyone who has studied the man should realize that the only natural duties Jefferson acknowledged were not to temporal kings, but to the Creator. James Madison was even more explicit that the source of rights exists in man's duty to his Creator. Writing of the unalienable right of religion in his Memorial and Remonstrance, he stated that the right is unalienable "because what is here a right towards men, is a duty towards the creator. It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homeage, and such only, as he believes to be acceptable to Him. His duty is precedent, both in order of time and in degree of obligation, to the claims of Civil Society. Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe: And if a member of Civil Society, who enters into any subordinate Association, must always do it with a reservation of his duty to the general authority; much more must every man who becomes a member of any particular Civil Society, do it with a saving of his allegiance to the Universal Sovereign." 25

Another leading Virginian, George Mason, was equally clear in asserting that the obligation of man to his Maker was the source of natural rights. In 1772 he wrote: "Now all acts of legislature apparently contrary to natural right and justice, are, in our laws, and must be in the nature of things, considered as void. The laws of nature are the laws of God: A legislature must not obstruct our obedience to him from whose punishments they cannot protect us. All human constitutions which contradict His laws, we are in conscience bound to disobey. Such have been the adjudications of our courts of justice." 26

The imperative necessity of understanding ends and duties in order to delineate natural rights was appreciated not only by Messrs. Jefferson, Madison, and Mason, but also by Virginians generally in our formative period. The members of the Virginia convention that ratified the United States Constitution saw and stated that the natural rights of conscience and religion are predicated upon an obligation to God. They contended that it was because of "the duty which we owe to our Creator," that "all men have an equal, natural and unalienable right to the free exercise of religion according to the dictates of conscience." 27

 

[BreezeWood]

Many of the most well-known Founding Fathers were Deists and rejected Christian doctrines like the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus.

But how many of the ones you have listed by name believed in Nature’s God ....

unlike you they decided not to live in the desert ... of forgeries and fallacies whether - natural or not.

 

[ding]

unlike you they decided not to live in the desert ... of forgeries and fallacies whether - natural or not.

Don't you have a communist rally you need to attend somewhere?

 

[TruthNotBS]

I'm trying to assess the basis of your "many" comment. So no, you don't have to list everyone of them a number will do quite nicely.

But how many of the ones you have listed by name believed in Nature’s God and that Nature's God to be a creating, particularly providential, and moralistic being, whose existence and causal relation to the world was essential to the foundations of natural-rights?

As usual, ding's disingenuous, flippant dismissal of the evidence, and facts, to support his erroneous views. At least half of the signers of the constitution were freemasons:

1. George Washington - Yes
2. Benjamin Franklin - Yes
3. James Madison - No
4. Alexander Hamilton - Likely, but no definitive data.
5. John Dickinson - Yes
6. James Wilson - Yes
7. Robert Morris - Yes
8. George Clymer - Yes
9. Thomas Mifflin - Yes
10. Charles Pinckney - Yes
11. Rufus King - No clear evidence
12. Gouverneur Morris - Yes
13. Roger Sherman - No
14. William Paterson - Yes
15. John Rutledge - Likely, but no clear evidence.
16. Charles Cotesworth Pinckney - Yes
17. George Read - No clear evidence
18. Gunning Bedford, Jr. - No clear evidence
19. William Blount - Yes
20. Richard Dobbs Spaight - No clear evidence
21. Hugh Williamson - No clear evidence
22. Jacob Broom - No clear evidence
23. William Few - Yes
24. Abraham Baldwin - No clear evidence
25. Pierce Butler - Yes
26. Daniel Carroll - No
27. William Livingston - No clear evidence
28. Jonathan Dayton - Yes
29. Thomas Fitzsimons - No
30. George Wythe - Yes
31. James McHenry - No clear evidence
32. John Blair - No clear evidence
33. Nicholas Gilman - Yes
34. William Samuel Johnson - Yes
35. William Jackson - Yes
36. John Langdon - Yes
37. William Houston - No clear evidence
38. George Washington - Yes
39. James Madison - No

Sources:

1. The Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania: This site often provides information on Benjamin Franklin and other Founding Fathers who were Masons. You can visit their official website and explore their historical archives.
2. The Masonic Service Association of North America (MSANA): They offer resources and publications about the history of Freemasonry, including its influence on American history. Their website is MSANA.
3. The George Washington Masonic National Memorial: This site provides detailed information about George Washington’s involvement in Freemasonry, as well as other Founding Fathers who were Masons. You can visit them at GW Masonic Memorial.
4. The National Archives: While not specifically focused on Freemasonry, the National Archives provide a wealth of primary source documents, including information about the Founding Fathers. You can search for documents and records related to Masonic membership on their website.
5. Freemasonry in the American Revolution: This article from the Scottish Rite Journal gives a broader context of Freemasonry’s role in the American Revolution, and it might mention specific Founding Fathers who were Masons. The journal can be accessed online through the Scottish Rite website.

 

[ding]

As usual, ding's disingenuous, flippant dismissal of the evidence, and facts, to support his erroneous views. At least half of the signers of the constitution were freemasons:

1. George Washington - Yes
2. Benjamin Franklin - Yes
3. James Madison - No
4. Alexander Hamilton - Likely, but no definitive data.
5. John Dickinson - Yes
6. James Wilson - Yes
7. Robert Morris - Yes
8. George Clymer - Yes
9. Thomas Mifflin - Yes
10. Charles Pinckney - Yes
11. Rufus King - No clear evidence
12. Gouverneur Morris - Yes
13. Roger Sherman - No
14. William Paterson - Yes
15. John Rutledge - Likely, but no clear evidence.
16. Charles Cotesworth Pinckney - Yes
17. George Read - No clear evidence
18. Gunning Bedford, Jr. - No clear evidence
19. William Blount - Yes
20. Richard Dobbs Spaight - No clear evidence
21. Hugh Williamson - No clear evidence
22. Jacob Broom - No clear evidence
23. William Few - Yes
24. Abraham Baldwin - No clear evidence
25. Pierce Butler - Yes
26. Daniel Carroll - No
27. William Livingston - No clear evidence
28. Jonathan Dayton - Yes
29. Thomas Fitzsimons - No
30. George Wythe - Yes
31. James McHenry - No clear evidence
32. John Blair - No clear evidence
33. Nicholas Gilman - Yes
34. William Samuel Johnson - Yes
35. William Jackson - Yes
36. John Langdon - Yes
37. William Houston - No clear evidence
38. George Washington - Yes
39. James Madison - No

Sources:

1. The Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania: This site often provides information on Benjamin Franklin and other Founding Fathers who were Masons. You can visit their official website and explore their historical archives.
2. The Masonic Service Association of North America (MSANA): They offer resources and publications about the history of Freemasonry, including its influence on American history. Their website is MSANA.
3. The George Washington Masonic National Memorial: This site provides detailed information about George Washington’s involvement in Freemasonry, as well as other Founding Fathers who were Masons. You can visit them at GW Masonic Memorial.
4. The National Archives: While not specifically focused on Freemasonry, the National Archives provide a wealth of primary source documents, including information about the Founding Fathers. You can search for documents and records related to Masonic membership on their website.
5. Freemasonry in the American Revolution: This article from the Scottish Rite Journal gives a broader context of Freemasonry’s role in the American Revolution, and it might mention specific Founding Fathers who were Masons. The journal can be accessed online through the Scottish Rite website.

There was nothing disingenuous at all. All I did was ask questions designed to test the subjective use of the word "many."

However what is disingenuous is you not acknowledging that the founders all believed in a creating, moralistic and providential creator who is the source of natural rights. So as much as you want to make this about their disagreement with Christianity, you fail to acknowledge the core beliefs of Christianity; A creator who created existence, is moralistic, is providential and is the source of natural rights.

 

[ding]

As usual, ding's disingenuous, flippant dismissal of the evidence, and facts, to support his erroneous views. At least half of the signers of the constitution were freemasons:

1. George Washington - Yes
2. Benjamin Franklin - Yes
3. James Madison - No
4. Alexander Hamilton - Likely, but no definitive data.
5. John Dickinson - Yes
6. James Wilson - Yes
7. Robert Morris - Yes
8. George Clymer - Yes
9. Thomas Mifflin - Yes
10. Charles Pinckney - Yes
11. Rufus King - No clear evidence
12. Gouverneur Morris - Yes
13. Roger Sherman - No
14. William Paterson - Yes
15. John Rutledge - Likely, but no clear evidence.
16. Charles Cotesworth Pinckney - Yes
17. George Read - No clear evidence
18. Gunning Bedford, Jr. - No clear evidence
19. William Blount - Yes
20. Richard Dobbs Spaight - No clear evidence
21. Hugh Williamson - No clear evidence
22. Jacob Broom - No clear evidence
23. William Few - Yes
24. Abraham Baldwin - No clear evidence
25. Pierce Butler - Yes
26. Daniel Carroll - No
27. William Livingston - No clear evidence
28. Jonathan Dayton - Yes
29. Thomas Fitzsimons - No
30. George Wythe - Yes
31. James McHenry - No clear evidence
32. John Blair - No clear evidence
33. Nicholas Gilman - Yes
34. William Samuel Johnson - Yes
35. William Jackson - Yes
36. John Langdon - Yes
37. William Houston - No clear evidence
38. George Washington - Yes
39. James Madison - No

Sources:

1. The Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania: This site often provides information on Benjamin Franklin and other Founding Fathers who were Masons. You can visit their official website and explore their historical archives.
2. The Masonic Service Association of North America (MSANA): They offer resources and publications about the history of Freemasonry, including its influence on American history. Their website is MSANA.
3. The George Washington Masonic National Memorial: This site provides detailed information about George Washington’s involvement in Freemasonry, as well as other Founding Fathers who were Masons. You can visit them at GW Masonic Memorial.
4. The National Archives: While not specifically focused on Freemasonry, the National Archives provide a wealth of primary source documents, including information about the Founding Fathers. You can search for documents and records related to Masonic membership on their website.
5. Freemasonry in the American Revolution: This article from the Scottish Rite Journal gives a broader context of Freemasonry’s role in the American Revolution, and it might mention specific Founding Fathers who were Masons. The journal can be accessed online through the Scottish Rite website.

How many founding fathers were militant atheists?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

As usual, ding's disingenuous, flippant dismissal of the evidence, and facts, to support his erroneous views. At least half of the signers of the constitution were freemasons:

1. George Washington - Yes
2. Benjamin Franklin - Yes
3. James Madison - No
4. Alexander Hamilton - Likely, but no definitive data.
5. John Dickinson - Yes
6. James Wilson - Yes
7. Robert Morris - Yes
8. George Clymer - Yes
9. Thomas Mifflin - Yes
10. Charles Pinckney - Yes
11. Rufus King - No clear evidence
12. Gouverneur Morris - Yes
13. Roger Sherman - No
14. William Paterson - Yes
15. John Rutledge - Likely, but no clear evidence.
16. Charles Cotesworth Pinckney - Yes
17. George Read - No clear evidence
18. Gunning Bedford, Jr. - No clear evidence
19. William Blount - Yes
20. Richard Dobbs Spaight - No clear evidence
21. Hugh Williamson - No clear evidence
22. Jacob Broom - No clear evidence
23. William Few - Yes
24. Abraham Baldwin - No clear evidence
25. Pierce Butler - Yes
26. Daniel Carroll - No
27. William Livingston - No clear evidence
28. Jonathan Dayton - Yes
29. Thomas Fitzsimons - No
30. George Wythe - Yes
31. James McHenry - No clear evidence
32. John Blair - No clear evidence
33. Nicholas Gilman - Yes
34. William Samuel Johnson - Yes
35. William Jackson - Yes
36. John Langdon - Yes
37. William Houston - No clear evidence
38. George Washington - Yes
39. James Madison - No

Sources:

1. The Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania: This site often provides information on Benjamin Franklin and other Founding Fathers who were Masons. You can visit their official website and explore their historical archives.
2. The Masonic Service Association of North America (MSANA): They offer resources and publications about the history of Freemasonry, including its influence on American history. Their website is MSANA.
3. The George Washington Masonic National Memorial: This site provides detailed information about George Washington’s involvement in Freemasonry, as well as other Founding Fathers who were Masons. You can visit them at GW Masonic Memorial.
4. The National Archives: While not specifically focused on Freemasonry, the National Archives provide a wealth of primary source documents, including information about the Founding Fathers. You can search for documents and records related to Masonic membership on their website.
5. Freemasonry in the American Revolution: This article from the Scottish Rite Journal gives a broader context of Freemasonry’s role in the American Revolution, and it might mention specific Founding Fathers who were Masons. The journal can be accessed online through the Scottish Rite website.

i. Separation of Church and State? 240819 {post•797}. ding Aug’24 Ssoca: Thomas Jefferson and many of his contemporaries understood. that the natural rights of man depended upon teleological considerations. •¥• So viewed, and accepting the premise that man's goal is being with his Creator for eternity, ….. man has the duty to abide by His will and directions, because they are necessary to satisfy man's duties. dvng 240818 Vsocas00797


ii. Separation of Church and State? 240823 {post•955}.

NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Vsocas: How many American Catholics Saint_Ding, liberal and conservative, agree that devotion to skeptical human reason is what one needs to apply in one’s lifetime to earn eternal life? There is no Cross of Christ salvation or humility before God in the above list. There is only the desire to be with one’s own idea of “Creator Whatever” of which has never revealed its rssence to human beings in any personal way? Are the rational theists founders on the list “Catholic” Saint_Ding? nfbw 240823 Vsocas00955

 

[NotfooledbyW]

How many founding fathers were militant atheists?

Is the standard for being a Christian - not being a militant atheist Saint_Ding?

 

[ding]

Is the standard for being a Christian - not being a militant atheist Saint_Ding?

The Christian standard with respect to the Founding Fathers of Liberty and Freedom is believing in a Creator who is moralistic and providential and created all men equally and endowed them with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

How would a militant atheist say that?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

How would a militant atheist say that?

I didn’t say a militant atheist would say that. Who are you having a conversation with?

 

[ding]

I didn’t say a militant atheist would say that. Who are you having a conversation with?

I said it. How can an atheist agree with a Creator who is moralistic and providential and created all men equally and endowed them with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

 

[ding]

I mean can anyone imagine an atheist agreeing with "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."