Zone1 Separation of Church and State?

[dudmuck]

I mean can anyone imagine an atheist agreeing with "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

sure, but does that include women?

 

[TruthNotBS]

There was nothing disingenuous at all. All I did was ask questions designed to test the subjective use of the word "many."

However what is disingenuous is you not acknowledging that the founders all believed in a creating, moralistic and providential creator who is the source of natural rights. So as much as you want to make this about their disagreement with Christianity, you fail to acknowledge the core beliefs of Christianity; A creator who created existence, is moralistic, is providential and is the source of natural rights.

I never claimed many of the founders were atheists, I asserted that many of them would be considered heretics by the same traditional, mainstream Evangelical Christians who are constantly telling us the Founding Fathers were Christians. Many of them, weren't Christians according to the standard set by the very people constantly telling us that they were. I never claimed that many of the Founding Fathers were atheists, denying the existence of a higher power, that's your straw man polemic against me.

 

[BreezeWood]

Don't you have a communist rally you need to attend somewhere?

unlike you they decided not to live in the desert ... of forgeries and fallacies.

- the earlier stage for setting history on the path of goodness from evil ... the u s constitution.

what latter happened at the turn of that century precipitated from their behavior, religious zealots - they took upon themselves to make for the better - try and accept the deserved fate as exacted than whine for decades over being set in place and try to learn from that draconian period as all the rest if at all possible.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

i. Separation of Church and State? 240823 {post•960}. ding Aug’24 Ssocas: I mean can anyone imagine an atheist agreeing with "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." dvng 240823 Ssocas00960


ii. Separation of Church and State? 240824 {post•964}.

NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Ssocas: I mean can anyone imagine a Catholic agreeing with;

CHRISTIANITY IS HARMFUL AND COERCIVE. “The purest system of morals ever before preached to man (the teachings of Jesus) has been adulterated and sophisticated by artificial constructions into a mere contrivance to filch wealth and power.” – letter to Samuel Kercheval, January 19, 1810


GOD IS NOT A TRINITY. “It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one…. on, and they would catch no more flies.” – letter to John Adams, August 22, 1813


CATHOLIC RELIGION IS ARTIFICIALLY CONTRIVED But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests. Sweep away their gossamer fabrics of factitious religion, and they would catch no more flies.” – letter to John Adams, August 22, 1813



CHRISTIANITY IS HOCUS PICUS. “The hocus-pocus phantasm of a god like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs.” – letter to James Smith, December 8, 1822.

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[ding]

sure, but does that include women?

Or blacks or Native Americans for that matter? In time it most certainly did. Change - good or bad - is usually gradual; incremental; done in steps.

 

[ding]

I never claimed many of the founders were atheists, I asserted that many of them would be considered heretics by the same traditional, mainstream Evangelical Christians who are constantly telling us the Founding Fathers were Christians. Many of them, weren't Christians according to the standard set by the very people constantly telling us that they were. I never claimed that many of the Founding Fathers were atheists, denying the existence of a higher power, that's your straw man polemic against me.

You are making unimportant distinctions. The important distinction is a belief in a moralistic, providential creator who is the source of natural rights.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

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The Republican Party’s Separation of Mind from Reason as a result of the Rightward Catholic Culture of Saint Ding

You are making unimportant distinctions

The GreasedPig is in the room!

The continuation of paragraphs:
i thru v i nfbw 240820 Vsocas00876
vi thru vii. nfbw 240820 Vsocas00883
viii thru x. nfbw 240821 Vsocas00884
xi. thru xii. nfbw 240821 Vsocas00897
xiii thru xiv nfbw 240821 Vsocas00897
xv thru xviii. nfbw 240822 Vsicas00903
xix thru xxvi. nfbw 240824 Vsocas00967

xix. Roe v. Wade getting overturned!! 220720 {post•3740}. NotfooledbyW Aug’23 Vrvwgo questioned Saint _Ding: IF religion is banned by you from this discussion then all your pro-life propaganda goes away. nfbw 220720 Vrvwgo03740

xx. Roe v. Wade getting overturned!! 220721 {post•3742}. ding Jul’23 Srvwgo: The right to life is not a religious issue. dvng 220721 Srvwgo03742

xxi. Separation of Church and State? 240823 {post•957}. ding Aug’24 Ssocas: How would a militant atheist say that? dvng 240823 Vsocas00957

xxii. Separation of Church and State? 240823 {post•913}. ding Aug’24 Ssocas said America’s not-Christian Founders: …. hated atheists. dvng 240824 Ssocas00913

xxiii. Separation of Church and State? 240812 {post•301}. NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Vsocas: Thomas Jefferson was farther away from the Catholic Church than any American atheist of today. nfbw 240812 Vsocas00301

xxiv. Separation of Church and State? 240822 {post•914}. TruthNotBS Aug’24 Vsocas: But many of the well-known Founding Fathers weren't religious Christians at all. They would be condemned today as heretics or apostates. trthntbs 240822 Vsocs00914


xxv. Separation of Church and State? 240824 {post•668}

NotfooledbyW Aug.24 Vsocas inserted Haselby Jul’17 excerpt :

"The Origins of American Religious Nationalism." By Sam Haselby*

There was even prevalent, open hostility to Christianity, in the form of anti-Catholicism, in Revolutionary-era America. The American Colonies were deeply, profoundly anti-Catholic. Anti-Catholicism was one of the few things the diverse Colonies shared. Colonists were horrified when Britain, with the 1774 Quebec Act, recognized Quebec’s Catholics as deserving equal protection of the law. The Continental Congress protested, claiming that Catholicism as a religion that had “deluged” Britain in blood and “dispersed impiety, bigotry, persecution, murder and rebellion through every part of the world.”

*Sam Haselby is a historian, an editor at Aeon Magazine and the author of "The Origins of American Religious Nationalism."July 4, 2017



xxvi. Separation of Church and State? 240824 {post•967}

NotfooledbyW Aug.24 Vsocas: With respect to paragraph xxii. There is no evidence that I am aware of that Thomas Jefferson or any other of the pro secularist founders hated atheists. Growing up in a Protestant Church State they certainly were vehemently opposed to the Catholic Church to a point of hatred in varying degree. Many historians believe the 1774 Quebec Act was monumental for converting Loyalists to Rebels willing to risk going to war against the King.

With respect to paragraph xxi. We need Saint_Ding to define what distinguishes an atheist from a militant atheist. One fine example of an atheist is Ronald Reagan Jr. I cannot be made to think of RRjr to be a militant atheist. I wonder if Saint_Ding can provide an example of a militant atheist by historical record during Jeffersons’s lifetime. And then it would be nice if Saint_Ding could provide any true example of a militant atheist living in our midst today.

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[BreezeWood]

You are making unimportant distinctions. The important distinction is a belief in a moralistic, providential creator who is the source of natural rights.

the natural rights are included in their document is the distinction void of a religion.

that is in part the reason they, who wrote the u s constitution chose deism as a base of reason than the forgeries and fallacies of the then two desert religions.