Serious Bible question for those in the know

[Avatar4321]

Well, since I studied the bible in college, served my sentence in Sunday school and own guns, you must not mean me.

More likely, you didn't read my posts and just want to do your usual ignorance-based name calling.

One thing for sure - its no wonder intelligent adults want no part of the lunacy. Instead of a warm welcome and gracious info, what I got for my sincere question is what the bible thumpers always spew - nastiness. If I'm ever tempted to learn more, I'll just visit here and I'm sure you "Good Christians" will set me straight.

Hell if you could, I have no doubt you'd burn me at the stake - just for asking a question. And, if I dared to show up at your sacred church, you'd criticize me for not wearing the right clothes.

Yep. That's "Christians" for you.

If you studied the Bible, you wouldn't have to ask the question.

You cannot sincerely study the life of Christ without a desire for emulation. Even Gandhi, who never became a Christian saw the wisdom in the Bible and strove to live it.

Oh, and btw trying to blame others for things you choose not to do is pretty childish. It doesn't matter if everyone else ignores the truth. As human beings if we understand the truth, we have an obligation to live it. We have an obligation to seek it out, even if those who have it don't recognize it or live it.

Stop excusing bad behavior because others have bad behavior.

 

[Avatar4321]

READ the bible???

No thanks. I already said I put in my time already.

I'd sooner read The Collected Works of The Tooth Fairy and its certainly just as meaningful.

As to the reason for my question - My memory was that "The Devil" was a relatively modern day construct. Just more of the agenda-driven fairy tale that Avatar says was removed by "the adversary".

I gotta hand it to bible thumpers - they always have a retort. And, when all else fails, there's always that good old standby, "god moves in mysterious ways". LOL

You start off so well, with a meaningful question, and then you descend to your usual unsufferable condescending prick mode.

Isn't that funny. I was just thinking the same about the rude and nasty christians.

Read the thread and you'll see I'm right.

Interesting, because not a single person in this thread has been rude or nasty to you. We've provided you with your answer and ways to find your answer. And then responded to your nastiness.

Is taking responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming others really that difficult?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I felt bad last night for not thanking those who actually answered my question, especially Jeremiah. Thank you for not being nasty, rude and insulting. I really do and did appreciate that you took the time to give me actual references, but I realize now that I should have just looked for the information on line.

To those who said that asking a question is "trolling" or that I should read the bible, I would think you would want to help non-Christians understand but instead, this is typical of the behavior of "good Christians". But again, it was my mistake to asking Christians for information about what the Bible says.

Through the years, I've learned to watch two things when dealing with people who rush to tell you they're "good Christians" - your back and your wallet.

 

[chikenwing]

I felt bad last night for not thanking those who actually answered my question, especially Jeremiah. Thank you for not being nasty, rude and insulting. I really do and did appreciate that you took the time to give me actual references, but I realize now that I should have just looked for the information on line.

To those who said that asking a question is "trolling" or that I should read the bible, I would think you would want to help non-Christians understand but instead, this is typical of the behavior of "good Christians". But again, it was my mistake to asking Christians for information about what the Bible says.

Through the years, I've learned to watch two things when dealing with people who rush to tell you they're "good Christians" - your back and your wallet.

LOL what a piece. a troll is after all only a troll.


After reading your posts for awhile now its abundantly clear your intentions are well simply crap.so carry on,but don't blubber when you are called on your BS

 

[Againsheila]

I felt bad last night for not thanking those who actually answered my question, especially Jeremiah. Thank you for not being nasty, rude and insulting. I really do and did appreciate that you took the time to give me actual references, but I realize now that I should have just looked for the information on line.

To those who said that asking a question is "trolling" or that I should read the bible, I would think you would want to help non-Christians understand but instead, this is typical of the behavior of "good Christians". But again, it was my mistake to asking Christians for information about what the Bible says.

Through the years, I've learned to watch two things when dealing with people who rush to tell you they're "good Christians" - your back and your wallet.

You spend a lot of your time on here insulting Christians, your posts are just dripping with hatred and you have the nerve to get a little sore when they get testy with you?

Some of us Christians are tired of being insulted at every turn. We are tired of the anti Christian threads that are created only to dis Christians. We are sick of being picked on, we are aghast at the people who openly claim they want to burn us alive in our own churches. We know Christians are right now being harassed, tortured and killed around the world and you are upset because we get a little testy because you ask a question we know was designed to start an argument. Well, forgive us, we're not perfect. We aspire to perfection, maybe someday we'll get there despite people like you.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I felt bad last night for not thanking those who actually answered my question, especially Jeremiah. Thank you for not being nasty, rude and insulting. I really do and did appreciate that you took the time to give me actual references, but I realize now that I should have just looked for the information on line.

To those who said that asking a question is "trolling" or that I should read the bible, I would think you would want to help non-Christians understand but instead, this is typical of the behavior of "good Christians". But again, it was my mistake to asking Christians for information about what the Bible says.

Through the years, I've learned to watch two things when dealing with people who rush to tell you they're "good Christians" - your back and your wallet.

You really have no concept of learning, do you?

If you ask a professor about any book, and admit that you have never read it, the first thing they will say to you is that you should read it. People are not telling you to read the Bible because they are Christians and are trying to brainwash you, they are telling you that because reading it is the only way to understand it.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

READ the bible???

No thanks. I already said I put in my time already.

I'd sooner read The Collected Works of The Tooth Fairy and its certainly just as meaningful.

As to the reason for my question - My memory was that "The Devil" was a relatively modern day construct. Just more of the agenda-driven fairy tale that Avatar says was removed by "the adversary".

I gotta hand it to bible thumpers - they always have a retort. And, when all else fails, there's always that good old standby, "god moves in mysterious ways". LOL

A retort? I gave you an answer not a retort. The devils opening act is in the book of Genesis. First book of Bible and his last act is in Revelation of Jesus Christ ( last book of bible ) where he is thrown into the lake of fire ( bound in chains ) along with ALL whose name is not written in the lambs book of Life. If your name is not written in the Lambs book of Life you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. You will be eternally separated from God ( in hell eternally ) Luke 10:20. If your name is in there, rejoice and if it isn't? I'd make it my first priority to get my name in there. - J.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Lucifer is an angel.

No, Lucifer WAS an angel. He is now a fallen angel. At least that's the way I interpret it.

Lucifer is a fallen angel but has not lost his abilities for the time being. That day is coming.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I felt bad last night for not thanking those who actually answered my question, especially Jeremiah. Thank you for not being nasty, rude and insulting. I really do and did appreciate that you took the time to give me actual references, but I realize now that I should have just looked for the information on line.

To those who said that asking a question is "trolling" or that I should read the bible, I would think you would want to help non-Christians understand but instead, this is typical of the behavior of "good Christians". But again, it was my mistake to asking Christians for information about what the Bible says.

Through the years, I've learned to watch two things when dealing with people who rush to tell you they're "good Christians" - your back and your wallet.

You really have no concept of learning, do you?

If you ask a professor about any book, and admit that you have never read it, the first thing they will say to you is that you should read it. People are not telling you to read the Bible because they are Christians and are trying to brainwash you, they are telling you that because reading it is the only way to understand it.

Too bad you didn't read what I actually wrote. If you had, you would know that I have read the bible, both as a Sunday school attendant and in a college comparative religion course. I don't remember every single thing the bible says about every single issue and my bet is that not one of you holier-than-thou bible thumpers does either.

My reason for asking is that someone said, in a different thread, something like, 'Demons look you in the eye and say they are demons'.

I did not say, nor did I even HINT that anyone was trying to "brainwash" me. That is an outright lie.

Sheila, you are quite right that I don't much care for those who insist on shoving their beliefs down the throats of others. I don't do that to you because I really don't have any interest in whether your beliefs match my own.

While I have NO respect for those who screech to the rooftops about what great Christians they are, I have great respect and even greater admiration for those who quietly ACT like Christians.

Again, my thanks to those who simply tried to answer a very straightforward question without the lectures and name calling. If I want information about Christianity and/or those who SAY they believe in it, I'll try to remember not to ask here.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

READ the bible???

No thanks. I already said I put in my time already.

I'd sooner read The Collected Works of The Tooth Fairy and its certainly just as meaningful.

As to the reason for my question - My memory was that "The Devil" was a relatively modern day construct. Just more of the agenda-driven fairy tale that Avatar says was removed by "the adversary".

I gotta hand it to bible thumpers - they always have a retort. And, when all else fails, there's always that good old standby, "god moves in mysterious ways". LOL

It's a bit silly to be a critic of the Bible when you don't even understand it and admit to not wanting to understand.

Makes you look foolish.

It's like being a gun critic when you've never owned one, never fired one, never seen one in real life, or never learned their capabilities.

I was the biggest critic of the bible years ago. I absolutely despised christians and thought they were biggest hypocrites on the face of the earth. Then I had my own encounter with God and found out I hated who I "thought" He was and that he hated organized dead religion as much as I did! ha! ha! Talk about being floored! It has been an ongoing relationship to get to Know God and THEN ( as you so beautifully described it here in this thread ) you can begin to get to know Him through the bible. I really don't see God as a brutal egomaniac demanding to be worshiped. I see God as my creator and the one who has the best interests - intention for my life. He isn't a dictator and if people do not wish to know Him they don't have to know Him but in my opinion they are missing out on one of the most enriching relationships one could ever hope to have.

People are under the false assumption christians can't sin. Oh yes they can oh yes they do.. no one is perfect and that goes for the christian as well because sinless perfection simply doesn't exist. I have my moments when I see the level of corruption about me inside the USA. The truth is I believe nothing escapes his attention and there is a reason for all of this happening. I would never claim perfection in my own walk - I have more flaws than most christians I believe - but forgiven? Yes, I feel completely reconciled to God over my past. I'm free. - Jeremiah

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I did some bible reading in Sunday school but I haven't been inside a church for other than a wedding or a funeral for more than, omfg I'm gittin old, 50 years. From a college course almost that many years ago, I seem to remember that the Bible does not mention the existence of a "devil", only something about Lucifer being an angel who went over to the Dark Side or some such.

I'll google this but -

Does the Christian Bible identify Lucifer as the "devil" or a "demon" or .................?

TIA

The name Lucifer is mentioned once in the bible, Isaiah 14:12 In that verse it says, "How thou art fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations. ( Verse 13 continues......) For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High. ( God Almighty alone is the Most High)

In these verses it is describing the fall of Lucifer ( in which he took one third of the angels in heaven with him ) and the reason for it: PRIDE. he said in his heart he would ascend higher than God and even be like God! In another chapter of Isaiah Lucifer is referred to as a blacksmith a mere tool God is using to shape and mold us through various trials on the earth, etc.

If heaven is perfect how/why did the angels revolt and go to war?
So once christians go to heaven will there be war there then?
Judging from some who clim to be christians I say a definate yes.

They fell because they believed the lie Lucifer told them which was that he would ascend to heaven and become God himself. They believed his lies and joined him in revolting against God and were cast out just as he was. Now Lucifer still enters the throne room of God to this day, mind you. He must petition God in order to afflict christians such as when he approached the throne room to request God remove the hedge of protection from Job and what Job owned. He claimed that Job only served God for the benefits and not out of a pure heart. The only way to prove this was not the case was to afflict Job. God said go ahead but you cannot kill him. Then came the great trials of Job. Even Jobs wife said, Why don't you just curse God and die??? Job refused. Job proved himself a righteous man, a true friend of Gods, a true worshiper of the LORD and after the trial was over he was rewarded with far more AFTER the trial then before.. God richly rewarded his faithfulness in the hour of trial. because Job held his ground... there are many of you here now going through various trials but God is behind the scenes ready to bless you with twice the blessings not to mention eternal rewards if you will just hold fast to your crowns and not faint.

God is not shocked by anyones imperfections. David commited adultery, murder, counted his own men in a census, David sinned, folks! Nevertheless, God said David is a man after my own heart. Why? Because it wasn't about his failings, it was about his heart and his desire to be pleasing in Gods sight and God never forgot about that. He isn't about to forget it with any of you either! People are far too hard on themselves sometimes! God doesn't condemn people. That is satan and his own gang down here that condemns. God is not looking for ways to throw people in hell. He never says Oh! I hope they fail again! I can't wait to throw them in hell! It is awful but Satan would love for people to perceive God that way and yet he is not that way. God is good. All the time.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

All through my childhood, religion, church and God was used to harm me. The "Christians" I knew used their Bible as a weapon and always made it very clear that I would never be "good enough".

I appreciate your honesty and your openness, Jeremiah. You seem to be very unlike others in this thread and unlike many other "Christians" I have known. If you know of an open and welcoming real Christian website, would you mind sharing the url?

Thanks.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I felt bad last night for not thanking those who actually answered my question, especially Jeremiah. Thank you for not being nasty, rude and insulting. I really do and did appreciate that you took the time to give me actual references, but I realize now that I should have just looked for the information on line.

To those who said that asking a question is "trolling" or that I should read the bible, I would think you would want to help non-Christians understand but instead, this is typical of the behavior of "good Christians". But again, it was my mistake to asking Christians for information about what the Bible says.

Through the years, I've learned to watch two things when dealing with people who rush to tell you they're "good Christians" - your back and your wallet.

Your welcome. I don't mind your asking questions at all and was grateful for the opportunity to help out. - Jeremiah

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

All through my childhood, religion, church and God was used to harm me. The "Christians" I knew used their Bible as a weapon and always made it very clear that I would never be "good enough".

I appreciate your honesty and your openness, Jeremiah. You seem to be very unlike others in this thread and unlike many other "Christians" I have known. If you know of an open and welcoming real Christian website, would you mind sharing the url?

Thanks.

I am very sorry for your experiences in childhood because those are the ones that make the greatest impact on us. I've got my own scars and like you I decided Christianity wasn't for me. ( for many years ) I've got good news for you though. NONE OF US ARE GOOD ENOUGH. We just are not ever going to be good enough truth be known. Which is why the debt to sin has been paid in full for us unconditionally. It is a come as you are invitation. You don't have to clean yourself up because truth be known, you can't.

In other words, Jesus death at the cross was no less than a ransom paid in full and if God is for us Neddly then who in the world can be against us? God is not holding ANYTHING against you. He loves you deeply and if you were the only person on the face of the earth right now he still would have sent his son to the cross to ransom you because you mean that much to him. You are priceless, there is no way to put a value on you because he only created one like you. ( you ) He has a plan for your life.

I happen to believe in divine providence. That when we need an answer God will somehow put the person in front of you that He knows is going to take what you are saying seriously. I take what you are saying VERY seriously. The only Christian website I know of is a bible scholar named Mike Edds who is a friend of mine. It is a small blog and not many people write there but I'll ask him for the link for you. Mike has definitely been a great help to me when I've become painfully aware of my own human nature apart from Christ. ( yikes ) Thanks for your reply. - Jeremiah

 

[williepete]

All through my childhood, religion, church and God was used to harm me. The "Christians" I knew used their Bible as a weapon and always made it very clear that I would never be "good enough".
I appreciate your honesty and your openness, Jeremiah. You seem to be very unlike others in this thread and unlike many other "Christians" I have known. If you know of an open and welcoming real Christian website, would you mind sharing the url?

Thanks.

I fully understand your bitterness towards Christians. I also understand your confusion about Christianity stemming from the behavior of Christians. I've stood in your shoes.

To get a quick and clear understanding of Christianity, I recommend reading the Sermon on the Mount. It's only about 5 pages. It's in the first book of the New Testament, the book of Matthew. Most Bibles will have the words of Christ in red. When advising the curious about Christianity, many people will say, "read the red parts" As was said before in this thread, if you learn about Christ, there's no way a sane human would not want to emulate his behavior.

When you read the Sermon on the Mount it will reinforce what you already think about Christians. We fall far short of the high bar set by Christ. For a human to attempt to follow Christ is a trail of failure. The standard he sets for us is more than any human can achieve. Some achieve more than others. I'm an abject failure but I know I must continue to try. Your curiosity is part of such an attempt.

Why did I go to the trouble of posting this in response to your question? I've been exactly where you seem to be. The contradiction between the behavior of Christians and the reality of what Christ offers was too far of a leap for me to rationally make. In your bitter posts, I hear my voice from not too long ago. I wish for you the peace I have now. It's yours for the asking and you are starting to ask. Bravo.

I'm no expert but this site might help with any Bible questions you have. Just type a word or question in the search window and you'll get several responses:
Bible Questions Answered


All the best, Bill

 

[Cecilie1200]

READ the bible???

No thanks. I already said I put in my time already.

I'd sooner read The Collected Works of The Tooth Fairy and its certainly just as meaningful.

As to the reason for my question - My memory was that "The Devil" was a relatively modern day construct. Just more of the agenda-driven fairy tale that Avatar says was removed by "the adversary".

I gotta hand it to bible thumpers - they always have a retort. And, when all else fails, there's always that good old standby, "god moves in mysterious ways". LOL

Hey, shithead. If it's all MUCH too beneath you to do your own fucking research, then it's OBVIOUSLY too beneath you to bother asking questions about, and it's sure as SHIT beneath US to bother answering them.

Here's a thought, ass clown: if you think Christianity is such a pile of worthless garbage, STOP THINKING AND TALKING ABOUT IT.

Duhh.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I felt bad last night for not thanking those who actually answered my question, especially Jeremiah. Thank you for not being nasty, rude and insulting. I really do and did appreciate that you took the time to give me actual references, but I realize now that I should have just looked for the information on line.

To those who said that asking a question is "trolling" or that I should read the bible, I would think you would want to help non-Christians understand but instead, this is typical of the behavior of "good Christians". But again, it was my mistake to asking Christians for information about what the Bible says.

Through the years, I've learned to watch two things when dealing with people who rush to tell you they're "good Christians" - your back and your wallet.

You really have no concept of learning, do you?

If you ask a professor about any book, and admit that you have never read it, the first thing they will say to you is that you should read it. People are not telling you to read the Bible because they are Christians and are trying to brainwash you, they are telling you that because reading it is the only way to understand it.

Too bad you didn't read what I actually wrote. If you had, you would know that I have read the bible, both as a Sunday school attendant and in a college comparative religion course. I don't remember every single thing the bible says about every single issue and my bet is that not one of you holier-than-thou bible thumpers does either.

My reason for asking is that someone said, in a different thread, something like, 'Demons look you in the eye and say they are demons'.

I did not say, nor did I even HINT that anyone was trying to "brainwash" me. That is an outright lie.

Sheila, you are quite right that I don't much care for those who insist on shoving their beliefs down the throats of others. I don't do that to you because I really don't have any interest in whether your beliefs match my own.

While I have NO respect for those who screech to the rooftops about what great Christians they are, I have great respect and even greater admiration for those who quietly ACT like Christians.

Again, my thanks to those who simply tried to answer a very straightforward question without the lectures and name calling. If I want information about Christianity and/or those who SAY they believe in it, I'll try to remember not to ask here.

Except that you, obviously, did not read the Bible. If you had you would have known that the devil is mentioned specifically in the Bible, the first time he was mentioned, by name, was in 1 Chronicles, and there are numerous other references to him throughout the Bible. You claiming he is not mentioned and then claiming that you read the bible is a bit like saying you read Mark Twain and then arguing he never mentioned slavery.

In other words, you read the Cliff Notes.

 

[BreezeWood]

we read the Garden ...

oddly the fallen angels does not occur to Bible Christians their book may be the same, as misinterpretation's and its consequences - by its History of persecution.

certainly believing Mankind to be particular among the creatures is undoubtedly one of them - and is a reason not to read the book any further.

 

[newpolitics]

READ the bible???

No thanks. I already said I put in my time already.

I'd sooner read The Collected Works of The Tooth Fairy and its certainly just as meaningful.

As to the reason for my question - My memory was that "The Devil" was a relatively modern day construct. Just more of the agenda-driven fairy tale that Avatar says was removed by "the adversary".

I gotta hand it to bible thumpers - they always have a retort. And, when all else fails, there's always that good old standby, "god moves in mysterious ways". LOL

It's a bit silly to be a critic of the Bible when you don't even understand it and admit to not wanting to understand.

Makes you look foolish.

It's like being a gun critic when you've never owned one, never fired one, never seen one in real life, or never learned their capabilities.

Not really. All one has to do is look at the effects of belief in a such a book, in terms of the bigotry and scientific ignorance which are common among the bible thumpers, to become sufficiently disinterested in its theological propositions and rightfully conclude that it contains no wisdom that can't be found elsewhere. Christians, Muslims and Jews, who all purportedly praise the same god, are no more moral or enlightened than anyone else.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I did some bible reading in Sunday school but I haven't been inside a church for other than a wedding or a funeral for more than, omfg I'm gittin old, 50 years. From a college course almost that many years ago, I seem to remember that the Bible does not mention the existence of a "devil", only something about Lucifer being an angel who went over to the Dark Side or some such.

I'll google this but -

Does the Christian Bible identify Lucifer as the "devil" or a "demon" or .................?

TIA

The name Lucifer is mentioned once in the bible, Isaiah 14:12 In that verse it says, "How thou art fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations. ( Verse 13 continues......) For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High. ( God Almighty alone is the Most High)

In these verses it is describing the fall of Lucifer ( in which he took one third of the angels in heaven with him ) and the reason for it: PRIDE. he said in his heart he would ascend higher than God and even be like God! In another chapter of Isaiah Lucifer is referred to as a blacksmith a mere tool God is using to shape and mold us through various trials on the earth, etc.

the existence of a "devil" or "angels": are they real? are they mentioned in the Bible and what do they mean, what do they refer too as symbols in myth?

The early Christians debated this and what you will most likely get is answers from the great unwashed, the ignorati, the Bible thumpers, on what they 'read' in the Bible. Take the Bible out of the context of early church history and you get an ignorant Christian religion no different in ignorance than the ignorance of those who hijack Islam for terrorism. They are all ignorant.

Desert Fathers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Church Fathers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Doctor of the Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You will get answers