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serious question on core Jewish belief

irosie91

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The story of Abraham and his descendents is found in the book of Genesis. We first meet him in Genesis chapter 11, although at this stage his name is Abram. There is very little biographical detail about him apart from the fact that he was a shepherd and came from Ur in Mesopotamia - modern day Iraq - after which he and his family moved, with his father Terah, to Haran.

This is a polytheistic age, an age when people believed in and worshipped many gods. Yet within this atmosphere, Abram answers the call of God and it is because of this that he accepts and realises the reality of there being only one true God.

In the Jewish tradition called Midrash (a Hebrew word which means 'interpretation' and relates to the way readings or biblical verses are understood), there are a number of stories about Abraham smashing his father's idols when he realises that there can be only one God of heaven and earth. It doesn't matter whether the stories are true or not. They acknowledge that Abraham was the first person to recognise and worship the one God. And so, monotheism was born.



There was NO Ur of the Chaldeans in Abraham's time. He was from Urfa near Haran.
Ur of the Chaldeans

Do you know what this means?

Yep and it didn't exist during Abraham's time. See the geology. Further, the cities of the plain were long gone before Abraham and Lot.
I just Googled it and you are, as usual, full of shit.


Abraham was from the city of Ur according to Genesis 11:31 above. The problem is that there are several places called Ur. It is mostly translated as "Ur of the Chaldeans." The problem with "Chaldeans" is that it is a late word used in the Neo-Babylonian times. It is either anachronistic, or a poor translation.
Abraham's Ur - Accuracy in Genesis
www.accuracyingenesis.com/ur.html
In your book everything that corresponds to the Torah is anachronistic, or a poor translation, even though self-hating Jewish archeologists are constantly confirming the verses.
You are one hateful bitch.
school of critical lack of thought
 

Indeependent

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The story of Abraham and his descendents is found in the book of Genesis. We first meet him in Genesis chapter 11, although at this stage his name is Abram. There is very little biographical detail about him apart from the fact that he was a shepherd and came from Ur in Mesopotamia - modern day Iraq - after which he and his family moved, with his father Terah, to Haran.

This is a polytheistic age, an age when people believed in and worshipped many gods. Yet within this atmosphere, Abram answers the call of God and it is because of this that he accepts and realises the reality of there being only one true God.

In the Jewish tradition called Midrash (a Hebrew word which means 'interpretation' and relates to the way readings or biblical verses are understood), there are a number of stories about Abraham smashing his father's idols when he realises that there can be only one God of heaven and earth. It doesn't matter whether the stories are true or not. They acknowledge that Abraham was the first person to recognise and worship the one God. And so, monotheism was born.



There was NO Ur of the Chaldeans in Abraham's time. He was from Urfa near Haran.
Ur of the Chaldeans

Do you know what this means?

Yep and it didn't exist during Abraham's time. See the geology. Further, the cities of the plain were long gone before Abraham and Lot.
I just Googled it and you are, as usual, full of shit.


Abraham was from the city of Ur according to Genesis 11:31 above. The problem is that there are several places called Ur. It is mostly translated as "Ur of the Chaldeans." The problem with "Chaldeans" is that it is a late word used in the Neo-Babylonian times. It is either anachronistic, or a poor translation.
Abraham's Ur - Accuracy in Genesis
www.accuracyingenesis.com/ur.html
The story of Abraham and his descendents is found in the book of Genesis. We first meet him in Genesis chapter 11, although at this stage his name is Abram. There is very little biographical detail about him apart from the fact that he was a shepherd and came from Ur in Mesopotamia - modern day Iraq - after which he and his family moved, with his father Terah, to Haran.

This is a polytheistic age, an age when people believed in and worshipped many gods. Yet within this atmosphere, Abram answers the call of God and it is because of this that he accepts and realises the reality of there being only one true God.

In the Jewish tradition called Midrash (a Hebrew word which means 'interpretation' and relates to the way readings or biblical verses are understood), there are a number of stories about Abraham smashing his father's idols when he realises that there can be only one God of heaven and earth. It doesn't matter whether the stories are true or not. They acknowledge that Abraham was the first person to recognise and worship the one God. And so, monotheism was born.



There was NO Ur of the Chaldeans in Abraham's time. He was from Urfa near Haran.
Ur of the Chaldeans

Do you know what this means?

Yep and it didn't exist during Abraham's time. See the geology. Further, the cities of the plain were long gone before Abraham and Lot.
I just Googled it and you are, as usual, full of shit.


Abraham was from the city of Ur according to Genesis 11:31 above. The problem is that there are several places called Ur. It is mostly translated as "Ur of the Chaldeans." The problem with "Chaldeans" is that it is a late word used in the Neo-Babylonian times. It is either anachronistic, or a poor translation.
Abraham's Ur - Accuracy in Genesis
www.accuracyingenesis.com/ur.html
In your book everything that corresponds to the Torah is anachronistic, or a poor translation, even though self-hating Jewish archeologists are constantly confirming the verses.
You are one hateful bitch.


Excerpt:

Josephus and Rabbi Maimonides believed that Ur Kasdim was in Northern Mesopotamia, in what is today Syria or Turkey.

There is no debate over where Haran is located, 10 miles north of the Syrian border in Turkey along the Balikh River, a tributary of the Euphrates River. Haran is an important Hurrian center, mentioned in the Nuzi tablets. The moon god, Sin was worshiped here.

There are two cities not far from Haran; Ura and Urfa. Local tradition says that Abraham was born in Urfa. Northern Ur is mentioned in tablets at Ugarit, Nuzi, and Ebla, which refers to Ur, URA, and Urau (See BAR January 2000, page 16).

The names of several of Abraham's relatives like Peleg, Serug, Nahor and Terah, appear as names of cities in the region of Haran (Harper's Bible Dictionary, page 373). Abraham sent his servant back to the region of Haran to find a wife for Isaac (Genesis 24:10).

Gen 24:4 You must go back to the country where I was born (nativity) and get a wife for my son Isaac from among my relatives."

Gen 24:10 The servant, who was in charge of Abraham's property, took ten of his master's camels and went to the city where Nahor had lived in northern Mesopotamia (Aram Naharaim) . (GNB)

After working for Laban, Jacob fled across the Euphrates River back to Canaan (Genesis 31:21). If Ur were the one in Southern Mesopotamia, then Jacob would not need to cross the Euphrates. Laban is said to live in Paddan-Aram, which is in the region of Haran (Genesis 28:5-7), which seems to be the same area as Aram-Naharaim, Abraham's homeland (Genesis 24:10).

All this evidence taken together seems to indicate that the Ur of Abraham was in the same region as Haran in Northern Mesopotamia, and NOT the famous Ur in Southern Mesopotamia.

OMG!
Ur in the Torah is not referring to a place, it's referring to an event!
That's why archeologists don't know what they're talking about.
Heck, even the Greeks and Romans knew it was an event and not a place.
 

surada

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The story of Abraham and his descendents is found in the book of Genesis. We first meet him in Genesis chapter 11, although at this stage his name is Abram. There is very little biographical detail about him apart from the fact that he was a shepherd and came from Ur in Mesopotamia - modern day Iraq - after which he and his family moved, with his father Terah, to Haran.

This is a polytheistic age, an age when people believed in and worshipped many gods. Yet within this atmosphere, Abram answers the call of God and it is because of this that he accepts and realises the reality of there being only one true God.

In the Jewish tradition called Midrash (a Hebrew word which means 'interpretation' and relates to the way readings or biblical verses are understood), there are a number of stories about Abraham smashing his father's idols when he realises that there can be only one God of heaven and earth. It doesn't matter whether the stories are true or not. They acknowledge that Abraham was the first person to recognise and worship the one God. And so, monotheism was born.



There was NO Ur of the Chaldeans in Abraham's time. He was from Urfa near Haran.
Ur of the Chaldeans

Do you know what this means?

Yep and it didn't exist during Abraham's time. See the geology. Further, the cities of the plain were long gone before Abraham and Lot.
I just Googled it and you are, as usual, full of shit.


Abraham was from the city of Ur according to Genesis 11:31 above. The problem is that there are several places called Ur. It is mostly translated as "Ur of the Chaldeans." The problem with "Chaldeans" is that it is a late word used in the Neo-Babylonian times. It is either anachronistic, or a poor translation.
Abraham's Ur - Accuracy in Genesis
www.accuracyingenesis.com/ur.html
The story of Abraham and his descendents is found in the book of Genesis. We first meet him in Genesis chapter 11, although at this stage his name is Abram. There is very little biographical detail about him apart from the fact that he was a shepherd and came from Ur in Mesopotamia - modern day Iraq - after which he and his family moved, with his father Terah, to Haran.

This is a polytheistic age, an age when people believed in and worshipped many gods. Yet within this atmosphere, Abram answers the call of God and it is because of this that he accepts and realises the reality of there being only one true God.

In the Jewish tradition called Midrash (a Hebrew word which means 'interpretation' and relates to the way readings or biblical verses are understood), there are a number of stories about Abraham smashing his father's idols when he realises that there can be only one God of heaven and earth. It doesn't matter whether the stories are true or not. They acknowledge that Abraham was the first person to recognise and worship the one God. And so, monotheism was born.



There was NO Ur of the Chaldeans in Abraham's time. He was from Urfa near Haran.
Ur of the Chaldeans

Do you know what this means?

Yep and it didn't exist during Abraham's time. See the geology. Further, the cities of the plain were long gone before Abraham and Lot.
I just Googled it and you are, as usual, full of shit.


Abraham was from the city of Ur according to Genesis 11:31 above. The problem is that there are several places called Ur. It is mostly translated as "Ur of the Chaldeans." The problem with "Chaldeans" is that it is a late word used in the Neo-Babylonian times. It is either anachronistic, or a poor translation.
Abraham's Ur - Accuracy in Genesis
www.accuracyingenesis.com/ur.html
In your book everything that corresponds to the Torah is anachronistic, or a poor translation, even though self-hating Jewish archeologists are constantly confirming the verses.
You are one hateful bitch.


Excerpt:

Josephus and Rabbi Maimonides believed that Ur Kasdim was in Northern Mesopotamia, in what is today Syria or Turkey.

There is no debate over where Haran is located, 10 miles north of the Syrian border in Turkey along the Balikh River, a tributary of the Euphrates River. Haran is an important Hurrian center, mentioned in the Nuzi tablets. The moon god, Sin was worshiped here.

There are two cities not far from Haran; Ura and Urfa. Local tradition says that Abraham was born in Urfa. Northern Ur is mentioned in tablets at Ugarit, Nuzi, and Ebla, which refers to Ur, URA, and Urau (See BAR January 2000, page 16).

The names of several of Abraham's relatives like Peleg, Serug, Nahor and Terah, appear as names of cities in the region of Haran (Harper's Bible Dictionary, page 373). Abraham sent his servant back to the region of Haran to find a wife for Isaac (Genesis 24:10).

Gen 24:4 You must go back to the country where I was born (nativity) and get a wife for my son Isaac from among my relatives."

Gen 24:10 The servant, who was in charge of Abraham's property, took ten of his master's camels and went to the city where Nahor had lived in northern Mesopotamia (Aram Naharaim) . (GNB)

After working for Laban, Jacob fled across the Euphrates River back to Canaan (Genesis 31:21). If Ur were the one in Southern Mesopotamia, then Jacob would not need to cross the Euphrates. Laban is said to live in Paddan-Aram, which is in the region of Haran (Genesis 28:5-7), which seems to be the same area as Aram-Naharaim, Abraham's homeland (Genesis 24:10).

All this evidence taken together seems to indicate that the Ur of Abraham was in the same region as Haran in Northern Mesopotamia, and NOT the famous Ur in Southern Mesopotamia.

OMG!
Ur in the Torah is not referring to a place, it's referring to an event!
That's why archeologists don't know what they're talking about.
Heck, even the Greeks and Romans knew it was an event and not a place.

You jerk.

Josephus and Rabbi Maimonides believed that Ur Kasdim was in Northern Mesopotamia, in what is today Syria or Turkey.

 

Indeependent

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The story of Abraham and his descendents is found in the book of Genesis. We first meet him in Genesis chapter 11, although at this stage his name is Abram. There is very little biographical detail about him apart from the fact that he was a shepherd and came from Ur in Mesopotamia - modern day Iraq - after which he and his family moved, with his father Terah, to Haran.

This is a polytheistic age, an age when people believed in and worshipped many gods. Yet within this atmosphere, Abram answers the call of God and it is because of this that he accepts and realises the reality of there being only one true God.

In the Jewish tradition called Midrash (a Hebrew word which means 'interpretation' and relates to the way readings or biblical verses are understood), there are a number of stories about Abraham smashing his father's idols when he realises that there can be only one God of heaven and earth. It doesn't matter whether the stories are true or not. They acknowledge that Abraham was the first person to recognise and worship the one God. And so, monotheism was born.



There was NO Ur of the Chaldeans in Abraham's time. He was from Urfa near Haran.
Ur of the Chaldeans

Do you know what this means?

Yep and it didn't exist during Abraham's time. See the geology. Further, the cities of the plain were long gone before Abraham and Lot.
I just Googled it and you are, as usual, full of shit.


Abraham was from the city of Ur according to Genesis 11:31 above. The problem is that there are several places called Ur. It is mostly translated as "Ur of the Chaldeans." The problem with "Chaldeans" is that it is a late word used in the Neo-Babylonian times. It is either anachronistic, or a poor translation.
Abraham's Ur - Accuracy in Genesis
www.accuracyingenesis.com/ur.html
The story of Abraham and his descendents is found in the book of Genesis. We first meet him in Genesis chapter 11, although at this stage his name is Abram. There is very little biographical detail about him apart from the fact that he was a shepherd and came from Ur in Mesopotamia - modern day Iraq - after which he and his family moved, with his father Terah, to Haran.

This is a polytheistic age, an age when people believed in and worshipped many gods. Yet within this atmosphere, Abram answers the call of God and it is because of this that he accepts and realises the reality of there being only one true God.

In the Jewish tradition called Midrash (a Hebrew word which means 'interpretation' and relates to the way readings or biblical verses are understood), there are a number of stories about Abraham smashing his father's idols when he realises that there can be only one God of heaven and earth. It doesn't matter whether the stories are true or not. They acknowledge that Abraham was the first person to recognise and worship the one God. And so, monotheism was born.



There was NO Ur of the Chaldeans in Abraham's time. He was from Urfa near Haran.
Ur of the Chaldeans

Do you know what this means?

Yep and it didn't exist during Abraham's time. See the geology. Further, the cities of the plain were long gone before Abraham and Lot.
I just Googled it and you are, as usual, full of shit.


Abraham was from the city of Ur according to Genesis 11:31 above. The problem is that there are several places called Ur. It is mostly translated as "Ur of the Chaldeans." The problem with "Chaldeans" is that it is a late word used in the Neo-Babylonian times. It is either anachronistic, or a poor translation.
Abraham's Ur - Accuracy in Genesis
www.accuracyingenesis.com/ur.html
In your book everything that corresponds to the Torah is anachronistic, or a poor translation, even though self-hating Jewish archeologists are constantly confirming the verses.
You are one hateful bitch.


Excerpt:

Josephus and Rabbi Maimonides believed that Ur Kasdim was in Northern Mesopotamia, in what is today Syria or Turkey.

There is no debate over where Haran is located, 10 miles north of the Syrian border in Turkey along the Balikh River, a tributary of the Euphrates River. Haran is an important Hurrian center, mentioned in the Nuzi tablets. The moon god, Sin was worshiped here.

There are two cities not far from Haran; Ura and Urfa. Local tradition says that Abraham was born in Urfa. Northern Ur is mentioned in tablets at Ugarit, Nuzi, and Ebla, which refers to Ur, URA, and Urau (See BAR January 2000, page 16).

The names of several of Abraham's relatives like Peleg, Serug, Nahor and Terah, appear as names of cities in the region of Haran (Harper's Bible Dictionary, page 373). Abraham sent his servant back to the region of Haran to find a wife for Isaac (Genesis 24:10).

Gen 24:4 You must go back to the country where I was born (nativity) and get a wife for my son Isaac from among my relatives."

Gen 24:10 The servant, who was in charge of Abraham's property, took ten of his master's camels and went to the city where Nahor had lived in northern Mesopotamia (Aram Naharaim) . (GNB)

After working for Laban, Jacob fled across the Euphrates River back to Canaan (Genesis 31:21). If Ur were the one in Southern Mesopotamia, then Jacob would not need to cross the Euphrates. Laban is said to live in Paddan-Aram, which is in the region of Haran (Genesis 28:5-7), which seems to be the same area as Aram-Naharaim, Abraham's homeland (Genesis 24:10).

All this evidence taken together seems to indicate that the Ur of Abraham was in the same region as Haran in Northern Mesopotamia, and NOT the famous Ur in Southern Mesopotamia.

OMG!
Ur in the Torah is not referring to a place, it's referring to an event!
That's why archeologists don't know what they're talking about.
Heck, even the Greeks and Romans knew it was an event and not a place.

You jerk.

Josephus and Rabbi Maimonides believed that Ur Kasdim was in Northern Mesopotamia, in what is today Syria or Turkey.

You jerk...it doesn't matter where Kasdim was, the fact is the phrase Ur Kasdim refers to an event that occurred in Kasdim.
Ur is an event, not the name of a place; a fact you don't know because you don't know Hebrew.
 

ding

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Personally I think it would be horrible if one thought he were a saint. That has dunning effect written all over it.

Being civil does not require one to be a saint. Now that avatar of yours makes sense jackass.
There was nothing uncivil in my question. You are overreacting. It's not a question you want to answer and you are looking for an excuse not to answer it.

If you were being "civil" I wouldn't have had to have asked the question three times. You would have replied to it the first time. I don't buy your excuse and I don't really care anymore to hear your unsubstantiated claim of an outside of body experience.
 

.oldschool

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Personally I think it would be horrible if one thought he were a saint. That has dunning effect written all over it.

Being civil does not require one to be a saint. Now that avatar of yours makes sense jackass.
There was nothing uncivil in my question. You are overreacting. It's not a question you want to answer and you are looking for an excuse not to answer it.

If you were being "civil" I wouldn't have had to have asked the question three times. You would have replied to it the first time. I don't buy your excuse and I don't really care anymore to hear your unsubstantiated claim of an outside of body experience.


Stick to the Hanzi of Genesis ding. It matches your intelligence.
Hey, I Googled jackass, look what came up. No not a real jackass

 

ding

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Personally I think it would be horrible if one thought he were a saint. That has dunning effect written all over it.

Being civil does not require one to be a saint. Now that avatar of yours makes sense jackass.
There was nothing uncivil in my question. You are overreacting. It's not a question you want to answer and you are looking for an excuse not to answer it.

If you were being "civil" I wouldn't have had to have asked the question three times. You would have replied to it the first time. I don't buy your excuse and I don't really care anymore to hear your unsubstantiated claim of an outside of body experience.


Stick to the Hanzi of Genesis ding. It matches your intelligence.
Hey, I Googled jackass, look what came up. No not a real jackass

^ dunning effect
 

ding

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I don't give a crap about religion dufus. Eat Jesus for the rest of your life and be a mark for every con man out there. I don't care in the least.
Cool story, bro, but your posts say otherwise.

You do realize it's easy to see all of your posts, right?
 
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Street Juice

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"We’ve been seeing that term “particularism” quite often this month. At its root, it refers to the core Jewish belief that the Creator of the Universe also has a special and unique relationship with His chosen people." -Mosaic Magazine

Q1 - How could a universal God have a chosen people? If God has a chosen people, He isn't universal. If universal, can't have a chosen people because He stands in a different relationship to some, i.e., is a different kind of God.

Q2 - How is chosen-people-ism different from white supremacy?
Chosen for what?
Be precise.
Ah, they are sending in reinforcements, I see. But before I quickly dispatch your new champion, it must be noted that battle with this comically attired knight is never but devoid of profit, as he will in nowise admit when he has been bested, but, rather, wiggles and squirms like a scaly dragon to avoid taking the point of my lance in honest and unshameful defeat as any honorable knight of the realm would do.

Chosen for separation.
 
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Street Juice

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So then you think it's just a coincidence that the universe popped into existence being hardwired to produce intelligence
Who knows?

I'm going to put you in the it's just a coincidence camp.

Did you know that if the electron and proton were not exactly opposite in charge the universe could have been created exactly as it was but it would be impossible for life or intelligence to arise?
Now you are a physics guru. Ding you have no bounds.
Of course I have limits but I think this might be more chemistry related than physics but it would certainly impact physics. Because all the matter in the universe would be charged. Everything would either be positively charged or negatively charged. Since like charges repel one another, all the matter in the universe would repel all the other matter, and so the universe would expand, just as it is but it wouldn't do anything else. Even a slight difference in electric charge would be enough to overwhelm the forces of gravitation that bring matter together. There would be no planets, no stars, no galaxies -- and, worst of all, no you. :)

So are the electrical charges of electrons and protons just a coincidence too?

Creation is not important to me. It seems seems to be very important to you. It's as though your whole belief system is reliant on this dogma. You are like a dog with a bone.
Clearly it's not important to you. It seems that you would just as soon sweep it under the rug.

I think the answers to the origin questions are extremely important. Ancient man did too. That's why the Hebrews passed down their answers orally from generation to generation for thousands of years.

Personally I think the universe being created from nothing freaks the shit out of atheists.

So tell me about your out of body experience. Were you just BS'ing? Or did it actually happen?

Not exactly.. They borrowed myths from the old civilizations around them like Sumer, Egypt and the Canaanite pantheon.. Even Dilmun has thousands of clay tablets older than Genesis.


The Genesis creation narrative is the creation myth[a] of both Judaism and Christianity.[2] The narrative is made up of two stories, roughly equivalent to the first two chapters of the Book of Genesis. In the first, Elohim (the Hebrew generic word for God) creates the heavens and the Earth, the animals, and mankind in six days, then rests on, blesses and sanctifies the seventh (i.e. the Biblical Sabbath). In the second story, God, now referred to by the personal name Yahweh, creates Adam, the first man, from dust and places him in the Garden of Eden, where he is given dominion over the animals. Eve, the first woman, is created from Adam and as his companion.

It expounds themes parallel to those in Mesopotamian mythology, emphasizing the Israelite people's belief in one God.[3] The first major comprehensive draft of the Pentateuch (the series of five books which begins with Genesis and ends with Deuteronomy) was composed in the late 7th or the 6th century BCE (the Jahwist source) and was later expanded by other authors (the Priestly source) into a work very like Genesis as known today.[4] The two sources can be identified in the creation narrative: Priestly and Jahwistic.[5] The combined narrative is a critique of the Mesopotamian theology of creation: Genesis affirms monotheism and denies polytheism.[6] Robert Alter described the combined narrative as "compelling in its archetypal character, its adaptation of myth to monotheistic ends".[7]

"In the second story, God, now referred to by the personal name Yahweh, "

Hold on a minute, there, matzoh boy, how do you know it isn't actually another God? The tribal god that drinks lamb's blood and all that? The one that slays cities, demands the right to the first born of "His" people, turns women into salt, talks to snakes in gardens and so on? The real God, on the other hand, the universal God, is the One all humans have always equally sought to understand. Wouldn't that tidy things up a bit?
 
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Street Juice

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At its root, it refers to the core Jewish belief that the Creator of the Universe also has a special and unique relationship with His chosen people."
According to scripture and Jewish tradition, God wished to have a people who placed themselves apart from others to live by a more austere code than other nations. The rest of us could live by a more relaxed code of our own choosing. God wasn't abandoning either group.
Why would any universal God demand what is, frankly, xenophobia from just one tribe (and the enslavement or genocide of all the others?) It is the opposite of a universal God. It is a tribal god and a particularly blood-thirsty one.
Provide a quote from Tanach.
When the Lord thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee,... And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: Deut 7:1, 2

And thou shalt consume all the people which the Lord thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them: Deut 7:16
 

ding

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So then you think it's just a coincidence that the universe popped into existence being hardwired to produce intelligence
Who knows?

I'm going to put you in the it's just a coincidence camp.

Did you know that if the electron and proton were not exactly opposite in charge the universe could have been created exactly as it was but it would be impossible for life or intelligence to arise?
Now you are a physics guru. Ding you have no bounds.
Of course I have limits but I think this might be more chemistry related than physics but it would certainly impact physics. Because all the matter in the universe would be charged. Everything would either be positively charged or negatively charged. Since like charges repel one another, all the matter in the universe would repel all the other matter, and so the universe would expand, just as it is but it wouldn't do anything else. Even a slight difference in electric charge would be enough to overwhelm the forces of gravitation that bring matter together. There would be no planets, no stars, no galaxies -- and, worst of all, no you. :)

So are the electrical charges of electrons and protons just a coincidence too?

Creation is not important to me. It seems seems to be very important to you. It's as though your whole belief system is reliant on this dogma. You are like a dog with a bone.
Clearly it's not important to you. It seems that you would just as soon sweep it under the rug.

I think the answers to the origin questions are extremely important. Ancient man did too. That's why the Hebrews passed down their answers orally from generation to generation for thousands of years.

Personally I think the universe being created from nothing freaks the shit out of atheists.

So tell me about your out of body experience. Were you just BS'ing? Or did it actually happen?

Not exactly.. They borrowed myths from the old civilizations around them like Sumer, Egypt and the Canaanite pantheon.. Even Dilmun has thousands of clay tablets older than Genesis.


The Genesis creation narrative is the creation myth[a] of both Judaism and Christianity.[2] The narrative is made up of two stories, roughly equivalent to the first two chapters of the Book of Genesis. In the first, Elohim (the Hebrew generic word for God) creates the heavens and the Earth, the animals, and mankind in six days, then rests on, blesses and sanctifies the seventh (i.e. the Biblical Sabbath). In the second story, God, now referred to by the personal name Yahweh, creates Adam, the first man, from dust and places him in the Garden of Eden, where he is given dominion over the animals. Eve, the first woman, is created from Adam and as his companion.

It expounds themes parallel to those in Mesopotamian mythology, emphasizing the Israelite people's belief in one God.[3] The first major comprehensive draft of the Pentateuch (the series of five books which begins with Genesis and ends with Deuteronomy) was composed in the late 7th or the 6th century BCE (the Jahwist source) and was later expanded by other authors (the Priestly source) into a work very like Genesis as known today.[4] The two sources can be identified in the creation narrative: Priestly and Jahwistic.[5] The combined narrative is a critique of the Mesopotamian theology of creation: Genesis affirms monotheism and denies polytheism.[6] Robert Alter described the combined narrative as "compelling in its archetypal character, its adaptation of myth to monotheistic ends".[7]

"In the second story, God, now referred to by the personal name Yahweh, "

Hold on a minute, there, matzoh boy, how do you know it isn't actually another God? The tribal god that drinks lamb's blood and all that? The one that slays cities, demands the right to the first born of "His" people, turns women into salt, talks to snakes in gardens and so on? The real God, on the other hand, the universal God, is the One all humans have always equally sought to understand. Wouldn't that tidy things up a bit?
Only if you were a Gnostic Christian. But they mostly darwinized themselves out of existence. But there's not really a second creation story. That's a misnomer. So I hate to burst your bubble but there it is.
 

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At its root, it refers to the core Jewish belief that the Creator of the Universe also has a special and unique relationship with His chosen people."
According to scripture and Jewish tradition, God wished to have a people who placed themselves apart from others to live by a more austere code than other nations. The rest of us could live by a more relaxed code of our own choosing. God wasn't abandoning either group.
Why would any universal God demand what is, frankly, xenophobia from just one tribe (and the enslavement or genocide of all the others?) It is the opposite of a universal God. It is a tribal god and a particularly blood-thirsty one.
Provide a quote from Tanach.
When the Lord thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee,... And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: Deut 7:1, 2

And thou shalt consume all the people which the Lord thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them: Deut 7:16
You do realize this is embellishment, right? You make the same mistake evangelicals make. You read this literally. C'mon man, don't make me revoke your membership from the adult club.
 
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At its root, it refers to the core Jewish belief that the Creator of the Universe also has a special and unique relationship with His chosen people."
According to scripture and Jewish tradition, God wished to have a people who placed themselves apart from others to live by a more austere code than other nations. The rest of us could live by a more relaxed code of our own choosing. God wasn't abandoning either group.
Why would any universal God demand what is, frankly, xenophobia from just one tribe (and the enslavement or genocide of all the others?) It is the opposite of a universal God. It is a tribal god and a particularly blood-thirsty one.
Provide a quote from Tanach.
When the Lord thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee,... And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: Deut 7:1, 2

And thou shalt consume all the people which the Lord thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them: Deut 7:16
You do realize this is embellishment, right? You make the same mistake evangelicals make. You read this literally. C'mon man, don't make me revoke your membership from the adult club.
Embellishment? "Thou shalt smite them and utterly destroy them" is embellishment? No, Dingles, embellishment would be something like, "Thou shalt smite them as your fathers smote, riding across the desert at a full gallop in drag, and utterly destroy them and turn them into blood mist and bestow upon them their very own Holocaust story."

Thou shalt smite them and utterly destroy them means thou shalt smite them and utterly destroy them. A command by your God. Actually it is you who sounds like a fundamentalist. Every time they come to a blatant contradiction like page 1: God loves mankind, page 2: God incinerates mankind because some dude wore a dress, the fundamentalists all cry in unison, it was a different dispensation, a word which means "this contradiction is hereby defined as not a contradiction". you just use "embellishment" instead of "dispensation"
 

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At its root, it refers to the core Jewish belief that the Creator of the Universe also has a special and unique relationship with His chosen people."
According to scripture and Jewish tradition, God wished to have a people who placed themselves apart from others to live by a more austere code than other nations. The rest of us could live by a more relaxed code of our own choosing. God wasn't abandoning either group.
Why would any universal God demand what is, frankly, xenophobia from just one tribe (and the enslavement or genocide of all the others?) It is the opposite of a universal God. It is a tribal god and a particularly blood-thirsty one.
Provide a quote from Tanach.
When the Lord thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee,... And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: Deut 7:1, 2

And thou shalt consume all the people which the Lord thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them: Deut 7:16
You do realize this is embellishment, right? You make the same mistake evangelicals make. You read this literally. C'mon man, don't make me revoke your membership from the adult club.
Embellishment? "Thou shalt smite them and utterly destroy them" is embellishment? No, Dingles, embellishment would be something like, "Thou shalt smite them as your fathers smote, riding across the desert at a full gallop in drag, and utterly destroy them and turn them into blood mist and bestow upon them their very own Holocaust story."

Thou shalt smite them and utterly destroy them means thou shalt smite them and utterly destroy them. A command by your God. Actually it is you who sounds like a fundamentalist. Every time they come to a blatant contradiction like page 1: God loves mankind, page 2: God incinerates mankind because some dude wore a dress, the fundamentalists all cry in unison, it was a different dispensation, a word which means "this contradiction is hereby defined as not a contradiction". you just use "embellishment" instead of "dispensation"
Holy smoke, so you believe God smote the enemies of the Jews? That's it. Your card to the adult club has been revoked, you fundie.
 

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God incinerates mankind because some dude wore a dress, the fundamentalists all cry in unison, it was a different dispensation, a word which means "this contradiction is hereby defined as not a contradiction". you just use "embellishment" instead of "dispensation"
I'm not crying dispensation, dummy. I'm telling you it didn't happen. And here you are arguing it did happen, like a fundie without a dispensation.
 

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The story of Abraham and his descendents is found in the book of Genesis. We first meet him in Genesis chapter 11, although at this stage his name is Abram. There is very little biographical detail about him apart from the fact that he was a shepherd and came from Ur in Mesopotamia - modern day Iraq - after which he and his family moved, with his father Terah, to Haran.

This is a polytheistic age, an age when people believed in and worshipped many gods. Yet within this atmosphere, Abram answers the call of God and it is because of this that he accepts and realises the reality of there being only one true God.

In the Jewish tradition called Midrash (a Hebrew word which means 'interpretation' and relates to the way readings or biblical verses are understood), there are a number of stories about Abraham smashing his father's idols when he realises that there can be only one God of heaven and earth. It doesn't matter whether the stories are true or not. They acknowledge that Abraham was the first person to recognise and worship the one God. And so, monotheism was born.



There was NO Ur of the Chaldeans in Abraham's time. He was from Urfa near Haran.
Ur of the Chaldeans

Do you know what this means?

Yep and it didn't exist during Abraham's time. See the geology. Further, the cities of the plain were long gone before Abraham and Lot.
I just Googled it and you are, as usual, full of shit.


Abraham was from the city of Ur according to Genesis 11:31 above. The problem is that there are several places called Ur. It is mostly translated as "Ur of the Chaldeans." The problem with "Chaldeans" is that it is a late word used in the Neo-Babylonian times. It is either anachronistic, or a poor translation.
Abraham's Ur - Accuracy in Genesis
www.accuracyingenesis.com/ur.html
The story of Abraham and his descendents is found in the book of Genesis. We first meet him in Genesis chapter 11, although at this stage his name is Abram. There is very little biographical detail about him apart from the fact that he was a shepherd and came from Ur in Mesopotamia - modern day Iraq - after which he and his family moved, with his father Terah, to Haran.

This is a polytheistic age, an age when people believed in and worshipped many gods. Yet within this atmosphere, Abram answers the call of God and it is because of this that he accepts and realises the reality of there being only one true God.

In the Jewish tradition called Midrash (a Hebrew word which means 'interpretation' and relates to the way readings or biblical verses are understood), there are a number of stories about Abraham smashing his father's idols when he realises that there can be only one God of heaven and earth. It doesn't matter whether the stories are true or not. They acknowledge that Abraham was the first person to recognise and worship the one God. And so, monotheism was born.



There was NO Ur of the Chaldeans in Abraham's time. He was from Urfa near Haran.
Ur of the Chaldeans

Do you know what this means?

Yep and it didn't exist during Abraham's time. See the geology. Further, the cities of the plain were long gone before Abraham and Lot.
I just Googled it and you are, as usual, full of shit.


Abraham was from the city of Ur according to Genesis 11:31 above. The problem is that there are several places called Ur. It is mostly translated as "Ur of the Chaldeans." The problem with "Chaldeans" is that it is a late word used in the Neo-Babylonian times. It is either anachronistic, or a poor translation.
Abraham's Ur - Accuracy in Genesis
www.accuracyingenesis.com/ur.html
In your book everything that corresponds to the Torah is anachronistic, or a poor translation, even though self-hating Jewish archeologists are constantly confirming the verses.
You are one hateful bitch.


Excerpt:

Josephus and Rabbi Maimonides believed that Ur Kasdim was in Northern Mesopotamia, in what is today Syria or Turkey.

There is no debate over where Haran is located, 10 miles north of the Syrian border in Turkey along the Balikh River, a tributary of the Euphrates River. Haran is an important Hurrian center, mentioned in the Nuzi tablets. The moon god, Sin was worshiped here.

There are two cities not far from Haran; Ura and Urfa. Local tradition says that Abraham was born in Urfa. Northern Ur is mentioned in tablets at Ugarit, Nuzi, and Ebla, which refers to Ur, URA, and Urau (See BAR January 2000, page 16).

The names of several of Abraham's relatives like Peleg, Serug, Nahor and Terah, appear as names of cities in the region of Haran (Harper's Bible Dictionary, page 373). Abraham sent his servant back to the region of Haran to find a wife for Isaac (Genesis 24:10).

Gen 24:4 You must go back to the country where I was born (nativity) and get a wife for my son Isaac from among my relatives."

Gen 24:10 The servant, who was in charge of Abraham's property, took ten of his master's camels and went to the city where Nahor had lived in northern Mesopotamia (Aram Naharaim) . (GNB)

After working for Laban, Jacob fled across the Euphrates River back to Canaan (Genesis 31:21). If Ur were the one in Southern Mesopotamia, then Jacob would not need to cross the Euphrates. Laban is said to live in Paddan-Aram, which is in the region of Haran (Genesis 28:5-7), which seems to be the same area as Aram-Naharaim, Abraham's homeland (Genesis 24:10).

All this evidence taken together seems to indicate that the Ur of Abraham was in the same region as Haran in Northern Mesopotamia, and NOT the famous Ur in Southern Mesopotamia.

OMG!
Ur in the Torah is not referring to a place, it's referring to an event!
That's why archeologists don't know what they're talking about.
Heck, even the Greeks and Romans knew it was an event and not a place.

You jerk.

Josephus and Rabbi Maimonides believed that Ur Kasdim was in Northern Mesopotamia, in what is today Syria or Turkey.

You jerk...it doesn't matter where Kasdim was, the fact is the phrase Ur Kasdim refers to an event that occurred in Kasdim.
Ur is an event, not the name of a place; a fact you don't know because you don't know Hebrew.

What is the "event"?

“Ur of the Chaldeans” (Gen 11:28-31)
Barrick, Chaldeans 2 A later editor or scribe was aware of more than one city called “Ur” in the ancient Near East. Since the Chaldeans did not exist in the ancient world until nearly a thousand years after
 
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Hold on a minute, there, matzoh boy, how do you know it isn't actually another God? The tribal god that drinks lamb's blood and all that? The one that slays cities, demands the right to the first born of "His" people, turns women into salt, talks to snakes in gardens and so on? The real God, on the other hand, the universal God, is the One all humans have always equally sought to understand. Wouldn't that tidy things up a bit?
Only if you were a Gnostic Christian. But they mostly darwinized themselves out of existence. But there's not really a second creation story. That's a misnomer. So I hate to burst your bubble but there it is.
Who cares? You can get rid of the first creation story, too. How the world came into existence isn't a religious question, anyway. It is a scientific question, since it has to do with the physical world. It does seem to me however, when I think about it, that in the Bible you've got two distinct Gods on stage. While one God is over here telling anyone who will listen that He desires mercy, not vengeance, you've got bad cop God over there ordering Jews to slaughter everyone in the world without mercy. So, either God is a schizo, or start ordering the replacement placemats for the friary with the Lord's Prayer: Our Fathers, one of whom is in Heaven and the other probably prison, hallowed be thy names. Thy kingdoms come, thy wills be done on earth as they are in Heaven and Hell, as the case may be. Give us this day our daily bread, and help us resist temptation, just not yet. Deliver us from evil, or drop us smack dab in the middle of it, for the kingdoms are y'alls, and the power too, and the glory, forever and ever, amen.
 

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