Serious?

[Unkotare]

Do teachers really goof off all summer and do nothing when they get home at 3:30?

No.

If you are a second grade teacher......how much work do take home at the end of the day?

I’m not a second grade teacher.

 

[candycorn]

Athletics and education are inextricably connected and always - ALWAYS will be.

As they should be.

That's not the point Unkotare, the inclusion of one doctrine does not exclude or devalue or take precedence another

IE~ Chess club is on par with Football

A well rounded education is appropos

~S~

Agreed. I wouldn’t send the chess club across the state to play another school’s chess club either.

 

[Unkotare]

Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?

I am a non educator. Spent most of my life in construction. Now, my guess is that most teachers never spent a day working in construction, so they would tend to know very little about the inner workings of the field.

However, most of us spent at least 12 years of our lives going to school, so the inner workings of schools are not a foreign concept to us. When we question whats happening in a classroom, we already have been exposed to most of it.

Just my.02

Mark

No, you really haven't. A student sitting in a classroom is not an experienced educator. That's like saying you are a dentist because you've had a wisdom tooth pulled. An adult who remembers little to nothing of what they think they saw 40 years ago is not qualified to expound on pedagogy.

And I know lots of teachers who have worked in construction.

I disagree. You can't be a part of something for 12 years without having an opinion of what is happening in schools. .....

Mark

Opinion based on what?

 

[Darkwind]

Give Me an outsiders view of our education system. Someone or some group that has given a truly independent and unbiased look at the education system and I'll give their conclusions some serious thought. If no such group is to be found, or will not be formed in the immediate future, I'll stick to My own conclusions regarding education and educators.

I will not solely take the word of an educator any more than I would accept the word of someone who has been accused of a crime. Neither can be trusted to tell the truth.

 

[Unkotare]

Athletics and education are inextricably connected and always - ALWAYS will be.

As they should be.

That's not the point Unkotare, the inclusion of one doctrine does not exclude or devalue or take precedence another

IE~ Chess club is on par with Football

A well rounded education is appropos

~S~

Agreed. I wouldn’t send the chess club across the state to play another school’s chess club either.

I would

 

[Weatherman2020]

Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?

Hayti HS in Hayti Missouri had a great season last season; 15-0. Being the district powerhouse, they played mainly home games (6 road games out of 15). Still, they racked up about 1,500 miles of travel on district school buses.

08/24/18 260 miles.
09/07/18 151 miles.
10/05/18 141 miles.
10/19/18 34 miles.
11/17/18 260 miles.
12/01/18 605 miles.

This doesn't count the travel of the band, the housing (if any), meals, etc...

All for nothing.

And keep in mind that this is just one team out of literally dozens playing one sport (11 man football).
That 1,500 miles traveled could be easily duplicated for teams playing:

Sports

• Baseball
• Basketball
• Cross Country
• Field Hockey
• Football
• Golf
• Lacrosse
• Soccer
• Softball
• Swimming and Diving
• Tennis
• Track and Field
• Volleyball
• Water Polo
• Wrestling

Factor in a few dozen teams for every sport, give them 1,000 miles of traveling and you can see the incredible expense at stake.

This doesn't count the utilities to run the stadiums, paying the coaches, officials, groundskeepers, etc...
This doesn't count the time taken away from what school is supposed to be about (education exploits), etc...
This doesn't count the costs of purchasing equipment, uniforms, insurance, etc....

Somehow the word "waste" doesn't begin to address the wrongheaded expenditures that are being made in high school athletics.

You asked for a question...mine would be this: How can this remotely be justified?

What exactly is it you feel needs to be justified? Education?

The justification of spending money to transport about 200-300 teams (the number of high schools) 1,000 miles (about the amount of travel each team makes in a season--the example above showed the travel to be substantially more but not every team makes the playoffs I guess) each in between 5-15 different sports (15 sports are listed in the MSHSAA website Missouri State High School Activities Association but I'm assuming not every school has a lacrosse team for example so I gave it a range of 5-15 sports) . for absolutely no good reason other than to have them play a meaningless game against someone from a different school. This is exclusive of the costs of coaches, trainers, facilities, equipment, insurance, housing, etc... It also doesn't count the other pointless activities that are done in the name of education from the MSHSAA website:

Activities

• Bass Fishing
• Bowling
• Chess
• Music Activities
• Scholar Bowl
• Speech, Debate and Theatre
• Spirit Activities
• Target Shooting

Money is never the issue with education. California spends more each year than other nations total GDP and those nations have better educated kids coming out.

America spends more on healthcare and yet other nations have better healthcare systems.

1. United Kingdom

2. Australia

3. Netherlands

4. New Zealand and Norway

6. Switzerland and Sweden

8. Germany

9. Canada

10. France

11. USA

Which countries have the best healthcare systems? | APRIL International

Ah yes, healthcare in the UK. Where they just let old people die and you wait 6 weeks to get emergency surgery and 6 months for non emergency surgery.

 

[sparky]

What percentage of teachers do you reckon favor left wing politics?

Why would a teacher after going to a Trump rally vote for Trump?



Donald Trump Jr calls teachers "Losers"

Interesting that son of Trump would demonize the educational system, simply for doing their job(s)

~S~

 

[Unkotare]

Give Me an outsiders view of our education system. Someone or some group that has given a truly independent and unbiased look at the education system and I'll give their conclusions some serious thought. If no such group is to be found, or will not be formed in the immediate future, I'll stick to My own conclusions regarding education and educators.

I will not solely take the word of an educator any more than I would accept the word of someone who has been accused of a crime. Neither can be trusted to tell the truth.

So if you have a question about medicine you wouldn’t trust a doctor?

 

[sealybobo]

Give Me an outsiders view of our education system. Someone or some group that has given a truly independent and unbiased look at the education system and I'll give their conclusions some serious thought. If no such group is to be found, or will not be formed in the immediate future, I'll stick to My own conclusions regarding education and educators.

I will not solely take the word of an educator any more than I would accept the word of someone who has been accused of a crime. Neither can be trusted to tell the truth.

University of Phoenix gets a bad rap but the whole reason why they are successful is because they found a better/different way of teaching.

You still have to take math but you only meet once a week. Or you do it all online. Absolutely no reason to drive/walk to and from classes like we did in traditional college. One class at 9am, second class at 2:45. One class meets twice a week for 45 minutes the other meets 3 times a week for a half hour. Who the fuck has time to do that other than a kid who only has to go to class? He certainly can't work full time and go to a traditional school.

So University of Phoenix devised a way you can come once a week and finish a 4 year degree in 2-3 years all while working full time and raising a family. Or you can do it all on line.

Of course traditional schools trashed Phoenix until they all started doing it too. Here is the problem. They didn't pass on the savings to the students. Online classes are cheap to teach but still all the schools are going to charge as much as they can. Remember Phoenix is a for profit school so they want to make money. You will pay more for the convenience.

Lastly, the founder of University of Phoenix also didn't like the way traditional schools taught 120 credit hours of bullshit just to get a degee. at least half of those classes are shit. So his approach was to teach what companies want in every class even English classes. What does that mean? It means meeting with teammates and working in groups, using powerpoint, giving presentations, participating in round table discussions with other working adults, writing papers. These are things corporations appreciate about Phoenix students. They graduate with these skills. Most traditional schools graduate idiots with none of these skills.

 

[candycorn]

Athletics and education are inextricably connected and always - ALWAYS will be.

As they should be.

That's not the point Unkotare, the inclusion of one doctrine does not exclude or devalue or take precedence another

IE~ Chess club is on par with Football

A well rounded education is appropos

~S~

Agreed. I wouldn’t send the chess club across the state to play another school’s chess club either.

I would

Yes, your lack of credentials on this topic is established. Thanks.

 

[Darkwind]

Give Me an outsiders view of our education system. Someone or some group that has given a truly independent and unbiased look at the education system and I'll give their conclusions some serious thought. If no such group is to be found, or will not be formed in the immediate future, I'll stick to My own conclusions regarding education and educators.

I will not solely take the word of an educator any more than I would accept the word of someone who has been accused of a crime. Neither can be trusted to tell the truth.

University of Phoenix gets a bad rap but the whole reason why they are successful is because they found a better/different way of teaching.

You still have to take math but you only meet once a week. Or you do it all online. Absolutely no reason to drive/walk to and from classes like we did in traditional college. One class at 9am, second class at 2:45. One class meets twice a week for 45 minutes the other meets 3 times a week for a half hour. Who the fuck has time to do that other than a kid who only has to go to class? He certainly can't work full time and go to a traditional school.

So University of Phoenix devised a way you can come once a week and finish a 4 year degree in 2-3 years all while working full time and raising a family. Or you can do it all on line.

Of course traditional schools trashed Phoenix until they all started doing it too. Here is the problem. They didn't pass on the savings to the students. Online classes are cheap to teach but still all the schools are going to charge as much as they can. Remember Phoenix is a for profit school so they want to make money. You will pay more for the convenience.

Lastly, the founder of University of Phoenix also didn't like the way traditional schools taught 120 credit hours of bullshit just to get a degee. at least half of those classes are shit. So his approach was to teach what companies want in every class even English classes. What does that mean? It means meeting with teammates and working in groups, using powerpoint, giving presentations, participating in round table discussions with other working adults, writing papers. These are things corporations appreciate about Phoenix students. They graduate with these skills. Most traditional schools graduate idiots with none of these skills.

Yes, I know and agree. I've looked into the online classes from all the major universities and they are all the same as UoP.

I hold two degrees from the University of Phoenix.

But that really isn't what this thread is all about. It is about accepting that educators are the only authoritative voice in the field of education and I simply don't buy that premise at all. As I said to the OP, I wouldn't trust an educator to give Me the honest truth about what goes on in the classroom or the field of education any more than I would trust the word of an accused criminal. Not because educators are dishonest, they simply think that their job is somehow holy and we should just acquiesce to their methods.

Perhaps of education hadn't been politicized it would be different, but there wasn't the stench of politics involved in the past.

 

[Darkwind]

Give Me an outsiders view of our education system. Someone or some group that has given a truly independent and unbiased look at the education system and I'll give their conclusions some serious thought. If no such group is to be found, or will not be formed in the immediate future, I'll stick to My own conclusions regarding education and educators.

I will not solely take the word of an educator any more than I would accept the word of someone who has been accused of a crime. Neither can be trusted to tell the truth.

So if you have a question about medicine you wouldn’t trust a doctor?

Doctors aren't teaching the next generation political agendas, are they?

Dismissed.

 

[sealybobo]

Athletics and education are inextricably connected and always - ALWAYS will be.

As they should be.

That's not the point Unkotare, the inclusion of one doctrine does not exclude or devalue or take precedence another

IE~ Chess club is on par with Football

A well rounded education is appropos

~S~

Agreed. I wouldn’t send the chess club across the state to play another school’s chess club either.

I would

Yes, your lack of credentials on this topic is established. Thanks.

He would because like most public employees they don't worry about the costs that us tax payers have to pay.

He would also give himself a raise even though he's probably overpaid. I think he lives in the New England area.

1. Alaska: $85,420
2. New York: $83,360
3. Connecticut: $78,810
4. California: $77,390
5. New Jersey: $76,430
6. Massachusetts: $76,170
7. Virginia: $69,890
8. Oregon: $69,660
9. Maryland: $69,070
10. Illinois: $68,380

$76,000 is a lot to pay each teacher in MA especially considering they get summers off.

So don't wonder why an ignorant public employee in a union would have the audacity to vote GOP. He's sitting pretty comfortably making $76,000 a year.

At least he makes enough that this doesn't bother him as much as it bothers us who work in the private sector

The Average CEO Makes as Much Money in One Day as the Typical Worker Earns in a Full Year. ... The average pay for CEOs in the S&P 500 was nearly $14 million last year, about 6% higher than 2016. By contrast, rank-and-file workers earned $38,600, based on Bureau of Labor Statistics data.

Hard to complain you don't make enough when you make $70K knowing the average American makes less than $40K a year.

These are the typical ignorant Republican voters. They got it good enough that it allows them or affords them to vote against the middle class.

I have it better than the average American but still I'm not rich enough to vote GOP. And I make more than the average teacher in MA.

 

[sealybobo]

This is why I would love it if the GOP would break the teachers unions. Too many of them don't appreciate the union and the protections they have. They don't realize the only reason they make $70K is because of the union.

 

[sealybobo]

Give Me an outsiders view of our education system. Someone or some group that has given a truly independent and unbiased look at the education system and I'll give their conclusions some serious thought. If no such group is to be found, or will not be formed in the immediate future, I'll stick to My own conclusions regarding education and educators.

I will not solely take the word of an educator any more than I would accept the word of someone who has been accused of a crime. Neither can be trusted to tell the truth.

So if you have a question about medicine you wouldn’t trust a doctor?

Doctors aren't teaching the next generation political agendas, are they?

Dismissed.

This is a ridiculous argument. You republicans are

anti science
anti schools
anti labor
anti media

You attack science because it tells us that the corporations are causing global warming
You attack schools because they teach evolution and you want to break the teachers unions
You attacked unions because they were the highest paid American workers. Now you want to maga?
And you attack the media because it's a watch dog against you. You don't want it to tell us you didn't drain the swamp you filled it with monsters.

Stop bashing the media

The term Fourth Estate or fourth power refers to the press and news media both in explicit capacity of advocacy and implicit ability to frame political issues. Though it is not formally recognized as a part of a political system, it wields significant indirect social influence.[1]

The derivation of the term fourth estate arises from the traditional European concept of the three estates of the realm: the clergy, the nobility and the commoners.

Stop calling it the failing New York Times. Who else is going to expose the corruption?

The Fourth Estate keeps government, legislators and big business in check by keeping society or the public informed. Investigative journalism plays a big part in uncovering bribery and corruption and in uncovering human rights violations.

This is why you attack the media. It's a watch dog that will expose your corruption.

Oh I wish the media would have told us that Bush lied us into Iraq. It's obvious now.

 

[Unkotare]

Give Me an outsiders view of our education system. Someone or some group that has given a truly independent and unbiased look at the education system and I'll give their conclusions some serious thought. If no such group is to be found, or will not be formed in the immediate future, I'll stick to My own conclusions regarding education and educators.

I will not solely take the word of an educator any more than I would accept the word of someone who has been accused of a crime. Neither can be trusted to tell the truth.

So if you have a question about medicine you wouldn’t trust a doctor?

Doctors aren't teaching the next generation political agendas, are they?

......

Most aren’t, just like most teachers aren’t.

 

[Unkotare]

Athletics and education are inextricably connected and always - ALWAYS will be.

As they should be.

That's not the point Unkotare, the inclusion of one doctrine does not exclude or devalue or take precedence another

IE~ Chess club is on par with Football

A well rounded education is appropos

~S~

Agreed. I wouldn’t send the chess club across the state to play another school’s chess club either.

I would

Yes, your lack of credentials on this topic is established. Thanks.

How so?

 

[sealybobo]

Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?

Yes. Why not start teaching a foreign language in pre-k? Why not start teaching Excel in 9th grade? Why don’t you teach skills like networking, public speaking, and negotiation?

Thank you

Schools are doing it the same way they did it 200 years ago. Do you think their methods are outdated? Of course they are. But good luck telling a teacher who's stuck in their ways that they aren't doing it right or could do it better. We need to train the new teachers to do better. They should get better results than unkotare and sweetsue92 are getting.

Hillary was wrong they aren't deplorable. They're losers

Before Trump Jr. Calls Me a 'Loser Teacher,' How About He Steps Inside My Classroom?

The chip on your shoulder is REALLY REALLY big, and it's sad. It makes you mean and ignorant

Now I see why you vote Republican

President Donald Trump has done something remarkable to the nation’s federal courts: he’s filled up their empty seats with clones of Vice President Mike Pence.

Whether it’s for district courts or higher-ranking appeals courts, Trump’s confirmed lifetime judges are overwhelmingly white men with records of opposing abortion, LGBTQ rights and voting rights.

A whopping 90% of Trump’s picks confirmed for appeals courts in his first two years in office were white, according to a Congressional Research Service analysis. 10% were Asian American. He didn’t confirm any African American or Hispanic circuit judges.

In that same period, 92% of his confirmed district court judges were white. 4% were Asian American, 2% were African American and 2% were Hispanic.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Anyone interested in a serious discussion about education? Any non-educators have any questions about what really goes on in the classroom instead of stereotypes and assumptions? Any educators want to share stories from the front lines? Anything?

Yes. Why not start teaching a foreign language in pre-k? Why not start teaching Excel in 9th grade? Why don’t you teach skills like networking, public speaking, and negotiation?

Thank you

Schools are doing it the same way they did it 200 years ago. Do you think their methods are outdated? Of course they are. But good luck telling a teacher who's stuck in their ways that they aren't doing it right or could do it better. We need to train the new teachers to do better. They should get better results than unkotare and sweetsue92 are getting.

Hillary was wrong they aren't deplorable. They're losers

Before Trump Jr. Calls Me a 'Loser Teacher,' How About He Steps Inside My Classroom?

The chip on your shoulder is REALLY REALLY big, and it's sad. It makes you mean and ignorant

Now I see why you vote Republican

President Donald Trump has done something remarkable to the nation’s federal courts: he’s filled up their empty seats with clones of Vice President Mike Pence.

Whether it’s for district courts or higher-ranking appeals courts, Trump’s confirmed lifetime judges are overwhelmingly white men with records of opposing abortion, LGBTQ rights and voting rights.

A whopping 90% of Trump’s picks confirmed for appeals courts in his first two years in office were white, according to a Congressional Research Service analysis. 10% were Asian American. He didn’t confirm any African American or Hispanic circuit judges.

In that same period, 92% of his confirmed district court judges were white. 4% were Asian American, 2% were African American and 2% were Hispanic.

Dearborn, Michigan: a divided city grappling with what it means to be Muslim and American

 

[impuretrash]

What percentage of teachers do you reckon favor left wing politics?

Why would a teacher after going to a Trump rally vote for Trump?



Donald Trump Jr calls teachers "Losers"

Interesting that son of Trump would demonize the educational system, simply for doing their job(s)

~S~

Their job is selling kids on socialism?