Seriously.....Can Anybody Really Imagine Donald Trump As President?

[Correll]

The same economists who told us that, back in the 80s, are the same ones that told US that US manufacturers would be forced to become competitive and that workers would retrain and get even better paying jobs in high tech industries.


THE PREDICTED RESULTS HAVE NOT HAPPENED.

WTF? Reagan kicked off a 25 year economic run. Learn history

A Rising Tide was supposed to Lift All Boats.

You ever walk down the streets of small town Rust Belt America and you will know that that did not happen.


That is the history of the last 40 years.

You're delving deeper and deeper into leftist ideology. The equally rising boats are opportunity, not handouts, comrade. Government taps you on the shoulder and gives you cash. Opportunity is what you earn. I was born in the rust belt and ended up doing great! Why? I left.

And again I addressed this. GOVERNMENT created the rust belt. And you are advocating giving government the power to further restrict our freedom to fix it. Yeah, that's going to happen ...

The Rising Tide was supposed to be increasing jobs and wages and lifestyles and socio-economic status.


"Opportunity" is a myth if Trade Policy removes all or even most of the good jobs from an area or a nation.

You managed to get a piece of a shrinking pie. Good for you.

Government taxes, tax structure and regulations are killing jobs.

Hey, you get some movement on better tax structure or such, and I'll embrace that change.

Nothing about that argues that Bad and Unfair Trade Policy is not also a huge part of the problem.

Repeating a lie that free trade harms the economy doesn't make it so.

Calling it a lie doesn't make it so. Citing Reagan doesn't make it so. Buzz words doesn't make it so.

If you want to demonstrate that Free Trade has been good, then demonstrate how it has been good for America and Americans.

I'll believe my education and experience over you.

I'm not citing myself as an Authority. I'm explained my position, and my reasoning, and my observations that led me there.

And again, you keep making sound like we are disagreeing on the fundamental point. I said Trump is anti-capitalist, anti-free trade. You are saying that is why you like him, not that I'm wrong

Meaningless buzz words.

 

[kaz]

WTF? Reagan kicked off a 25 year economic run. Learn history

A Rising Tide was supposed to Lift All Boats.

You ever walk down the streets of small town Rust Belt America and you will know that that did not happen.


That is the history of the last 40 years.

You're delving deeper and deeper into leftist ideology. The equally rising boats are opportunity, not handouts, comrade. Government taps you on the shoulder and gives you cash. Opportunity is what you earn. I was born in the rust belt and ended up doing great! Why? I left.

And again I addressed this. GOVERNMENT created the rust belt. And you are advocating giving government the power to further restrict our freedom to fix it. Yeah, that's going to happen ...

The Rising Tide was supposed to be increasing jobs and wages and lifestyles and socio-economic status.


"Opportunity" is a myth if Trade Policy removes all or even most of the good jobs from an area or a nation.

You managed to get a piece of a shrinking pie. Good for you.

Government taxes, tax structure and regulations are killing jobs.

Hey, you get some movement on better tax structure or such, and I'll embrace that change.

Nothing about that argues that Bad and Unfair Trade Policy is not also a huge part of the problem.

Repeating a lie that free trade harms the economy doesn't make it so.

Calling it a lie doesn't make it so. Citing Reagan doesn't make it so. Buzz words doesn't make it so.

If you want to demonstrate that Free Trade has been good, then demonstrate how it has been good for America and Americans.

I'll believe my education and experience over you.

I'm not citing myself as an Authority. I'm explained my position, and my reasoning, and my observations that led me there.

And again, you keep making sound like we are disagreeing on the fundamental point. I said Trump is anti-capitalist, anti-free trade. You are saying that is why you like him, not that I'm wrong

Meaningless buzz words.

Yes, freedom and my making my own choices, just "buzz words." Enlightened socialists who realize government is the best path to fixing problems created by government, no ideology there, just pure logic

 

[Toro]

Reagan signed the original free trade agreement with Canada.

Since in the Trumpian world, the only definition of a bad deal is the discredited 19th century mercantilist belief that it's bad if you have a trade deficit, Reagan signed a bad deal since the US had and still has a trade deficit with Canada.

Are you really happy with the effect that our large trade deficit has had on our manufacturing sector?

Are you happy with the massive software and video piracy that is operated on an industrial scale in China?

Isn't it funny that none of these nations that HAVE these huge trade surpluses are unhappy with these deals and never want to change them, if Trade Deficits are good?

I'm no more unhappy about manufacturing jobs than I'm unhappy about the loss of jobs in agriculture. In 1900, half the jobs in America were on the farm. Today, it's about 3%. And we produce 10x more agriculture produce than we did back then. I don't blame Trump's supporters. They are doing what any disenfranchised group does - they are looking for the government to interfere in the economy and engineer a redistribution of wealth from guys like me, the owners of capital, to them. I believe in capitalism, which has created the greatest amount of wealth in history. Ever. Full-stop. And capitalism is based on creative destruction. What is being creatively destructed is the removal of jobs from the manufacturing industry. That's going to happen anyways, like it did in agriculture. We used to have high tariffs on ag products but jobs were lost anyways due to automation. Trump is lying to you. Millions of manufacturing jobs aren't coming back here. Sorry. If high tariffs force production back to the US, the work will be done by robots and we will all be poorer because there won't be more jobs and everything will cost more.

I do agree with Trump on intellectual piracy and something should be done about it, but that was the Faustian Bargain American industry made with China to access their growing market, something their shareholders demanded.

Trade deficits are neither good nor bad. The countries with trade deficits aren't demanding we rip up trade agreements.

1. Automation doesn't stop Germany from having TWICE the rate of manufacturing employment as we do. That's a lot of jobs you are just giving up on. That's a lot of jobs that CAN come back.

2. The Trade Policy we have NOW is redistributing wealth. From the workers who don't want to move to China so they can work at slave labor in unsafe polluted environments to the "capitalists" who CAN move their investments and production there.

3. Capitalism does not mean that we have to accept playing with rules slanted against US.

4. "Creative destruction" is supposed to lead to new growth. I've been waiting for that for 40 years. It is not working.

5. It is a bad bargain. We don't have good or fair access to their market and they are ripping US off for tens of billions.

6. All of our major trade partners have Trade Surpluses with US. IF you compare what has happened to the Rust Belt over the last 40 years to what has happened to Japan, and Germany and South Korea, and China, a reasonable observer would have to conclude the Trade Deficits are BAD, and Trade Surpluses are GOOD.

Manufacturing jobs in Germany are half that in the economy compared to 40 years ago.

Percent of Employment in Manufacturing in Germany (DISCONTINUED)

Germany also is under the same trade agreements with the China as a co-signer of the WTO.

German workers also work less than American workers.

Yes, and some manufacturing will move offshore because of wages. That's not all bad as it creates more markets and American allies and it makes American products more price competitive and benefits consumers. And it's the way capitalism works. As you pointed out before, should we have 50% of people working in agriculture like they did a century ago?

What we need to stop is driving companies offshore to escape the American government and it's punitive tax and regulations. And Correll knows better than to trust government that hey, we want to restrict trade, but only to expand free trade!

I've seen those deals from government all my life. Never seen the second part actually happen once they have the first part.

Obama: Obamacare will drive healthcare costs down! We gotta give government control over healthcare, then watch the prices fall!
Tip O'Neill: I'll agree to 3 dollars in future tax cuts for $1 in tax increases now!
W: We dramatically raise Social Security and Medicare taxes, then the system is solvent for our children!
Trump: I'll end free trade, but I'll replace it with better deals!

It's a sucker deal

We should lower the corporate tax rate to 15%, tax it only on US income, scrap all these offshore shells that are merely tax avoidance, and set up a review of all regulations, with the goal of dramatically deregulating the economy.

 

[Redfish]

How awful it would be if we had a president who owed no favors to special interest groups.
How awful it would be if we had a president who believed in the constitution
How awful it would be if we had a president who ran the government like a business
How awful it would be if we had a president who negotiated trade deals favorable to this country
How awful it would be if we had a president who respected law enforcement personnel
How awful it would be if we had a president who cared about our military and vets
How awful it would be if we had a president who wanted to reduce the national debt
How awful it would be if we had a president who wanted jobs for all americans

You libs are so out of touch with reality. Liberalism is truly a mental disease, there is no other explanation.

And of course, how awful if we had a president who tried to control our borders like every other country controls their borders.

thanks, I missed that very important one.

 

[jasonnfree]

The same economists who told us that, back in the 80s, are the same ones that told US that US manufacturers would be forced to become competitive and that workers would retrain and get even better paying jobs in high tech industries.


THE PREDICTED RESULTS HAVE NOT HAPPENED.

WTF? Reagan kicked off a 25 year economic run. Learn history

A Rising Tide was supposed to Lift All Boats.

You ever walk down the streets of small town Rust Belt America and you will know that that did not happen.


That is the history of the last 40 years.

You're delving deeper and deeper into leftist ideology. The equally rising boats are opportunity, not handouts, comrade. Government taps you on the shoulder and gives you cash. Opportunity is what you earn. I was born in the rust belt and ended up doing great! Why? I left.

And again I addressed this. GOVERNMENT created the rust belt. And you are advocating giving government the power to further restrict our freedom to fix it. Yeah, that's going to happen ...

The Rising Tide was supposed to be increasing jobs and wages and lifestyles and socio-economic status.


"Opportunity" is a myth if Trade Policy removes all or even most of the good jobs from an area or a nation.

You managed to get a piece of a shrinking pie. Good for you.

Government taxes, tax structure and regulations are killing jobs. Repeating a lie that free trade harms the economy doesn't make it so. I'll believe my education and experience over you.

And again, you keep making sound like we are disagreeing on the fundamental point. I said Trump is anti-capitalist, anti-free trade. You are saying that is why you like him, not that I'm wrong

This country used tariffs for most of it's history to build up and retain industries. Formerly dirt poor Red China has been built on the loss of the US manufacturing job base. Now we have to buy stuff from them previously made in this country, and they have our dollars with which to buy our assets. Go Trump I say.

 

[kaz]

Are you really happy with the effect that our large trade deficit has had on our manufacturing sector?

Are you happy with the massive software and video piracy that is operated on an industrial scale in China?

Isn't it funny that none of these nations that HAVE these huge trade surpluses are unhappy with these deals and never want to change them, if Trade Deficits are good?

I'm no more unhappy about manufacturing jobs than I'm unhappy about the loss of jobs in agriculture. In 1900, half the jobs in America were on the farm. Today, it's about 3%. And we produce 10x more agriculture produce than we did back then. I don't blame Trump's supporters. They are doing what any disenfranchised group does - they are looking for the government to interfere in the economy and engineer a redistribution of wealth from guys like me, the owners of capital, to them. I believe in capitalism, which has created the greatest amount of wealth in history. Ever. Full-stop. And capitalism is based on creative destruction. What is being creatively destructed is the removal of jobs from the manufacturing industry. That's going to happen anyways, like it did in agriculture. We used to have high tariffs on ag products but jobs were lost anyways due to automation. Trump is lying to you. Millions of manufacturing jobs aren't coming back here. Sorry. If high tariffs force production back to the US, the work will be done by robots and we will all be poorer because there won't be more jobs and everything will cost more.

I do agree with Trump on intellectual piracy and something should be done about it, but that was the Faustian Bargain American industry made with China to access their growing market, something their shareholders demanded.

Trade deficits are neither good nor bad. The countries with trade deficits aren't demanding we rip up trade agreements.

1. Automation doesn't stop Germany from having TWICE the rate of manufacturing employment as we do. That's a lot of jobs you are just giving up on. That's a lot of jobs that CAN come back.

2. The Trade Policy we have NOW is redistributing wealth. From the workers who don't want to move to China so they can work at slave labor in unsafe polluted environments to the "capitalists" who CAN move their investments and production there.

3. Capitalism does not mean that we have to accept playing with rules slanted against US.

4. "Creative destruction" is supposed to lead to new growth. I've been waiting for that for 40 years. It is not working.

5. It is a bad bargain. We don't have good or fair access to their market and they are ripping US off for tens of billions.

6. All of our major trade partners have Trade Surpluses with US. IF you compare what has happened to the Rust Belt over the last 40 years to what has happened to Japan, and Germany and South Korea, and China, a reasonable observer would have to conclude the Trade Deficits are BAD, and Trade Surpluses are GOOD.

Manufacturing jobs in Germany are half that in the economy compared to 40 years ago.

Percent of Employment in Manufacturing in Germany (DISCONTINUED)

Germany also is under the same trade agreements with the China as a co-signer of the WTO.

German workers also work less than American workers.

Yes, and some manufacturing will move offshore because of wages. That's not all bad as it creates more markets and American allies and it makes American products more price competitive and benefits consumers. And it's the way capitalism works. As you pointed out before, should we have 50% of people working in agriculture like they did a century ago?

What we need to stop is driving companies offshore to escape the American government and it's punitive tax and regulations. And Correll knows better than to trust government that hey, we want to restrict trade, but only to expand free trade!

I've seen those deals from government all my life. Never seen the second part actually happen once they have the first part.

Obama: Obamacare will drive healthcare costs down! We gotta give government control over healthcare, then watch the prices fall!
Tip O'Neill: I'll agree to 3 dollars in future tax cuts for $1 in tax increases now!
W: We dramatically raise Social Security and Medicare taxes, then the system is solvent for our children!
Trump: I'll end free trade, but I'll replace it with better deals!

It's a sucker deal

We should lower the corporate tax rate to 15%, tax it only on US income, scrap all these offshore shells that are merely tax avoidance, and set up a review of all regulations, with the goal of dramatically deregulating the economy.

That would be way better than we have now. That Trump and his worshipers are bashing free market capitalists like us shows what a carnival show they are. How does the Republican candidate win while declaring fiscal conservatives his enemy? It's hard to see

 

[Redfish]

I'm no more unhappy about manufacturing jobs than I'm unhappy about the loss of jobs in agriculture. In 1900, half the jobs in America were on the farm. Today, it's about 3%. And we produce 10x more agriculture produce than we did back then. I don't blame Trump's supporters. They are doing what any disenfranchised group does - they are looking for the government to interfere in the economy and engineer a redistribution of wealth from guys like me, the owners of capital, to them. I believe in capitalism, which has created the greatest amount of wealth in history. Ever. Full-stop. And capitalism is based on creative destruction. What is being creatively destructed is the removal of jobs from the manufacturing industry. That's going to happen anyways, like it did in agriculture. We used to have high tariffs on ag products but jobs were lost anyways due to automation. Trump is lying to you. Millions of manufacturing jobs aren't coming back here. Sorry. If high tariffs force production back to the US, the work will be done by robots and we will all be poorer because there won't be more jobs and everything will cost more.

I do agree with Trump on intellectual piracy and something should be done about it, but that was the Faustian Bargain American industry made with China to access their growing market, something their shareholders demanded.

Trade deficits are neither good nor bad. The countries with trade deficits aren't demanding we rip up trade agreements.

1. Automation doesn't stop Germany from having TWICE the rate of manufacturing employment as we do. That's a lot of jobs you are just giving up on. That's a lot of jobs that CAN come back.

2. The Trade Policy we have NOW is redistributing wealth. From the workers who don't want to move to China so they can work at slave labor in unsafe polluted environments to the "capitalists" who CAN move their investments and production there.

3. Capitalism does not mean that we have to accept playing with rules slanted against US.

4. "Creative destruction" is supposed to lead to new growth. I've been waiting for that for 40 years. It is not working.

5. It is a bad bargain. We don't have good or fair access to their market and they are ripping US off for tens of billions.

6. All of our major trade partners have Trade Surpluses with US. IF you compare what has happened to the Rust Belt over the last 40 years to what has happened to Japan, and Germany and South Korea, and China, a reasonable observer would have to conclude the Trade Deficits are BAD, and Trade Surpluses are GOOD.

Manufacturing jobs in Germany are half that in the economy compared to 40 years ago.

Percent of Employment in Manufacturing in Germany (DISCONTINUED)

Germany also is under the same trade agreements with the China as a co-signer of the WTO.

German workers also work less than American workers.

Yes, and some manufacturing will move offshore because of wages. That's not all bad as it creates more markets and American allies and it makes American products more price competitive and benefits consumers. And it's the way capitalism works. As you pointed out before, should we have 50% of people working in agriculture like they did a century ago?

What we need to stop is driving companies offshore to escape the American government and it's punitive tax and regulations. And Correll knows better than to trust government that hey, we want to restrict trade, but only to expand free trade!

I've seen those deals from government all my life. Never seen the second part actually happen once they have the first part.

Obama: Obamacare will drive healthcare costs down! We gotta give government control over healthcare, then watch the prices fall!
Tip O'Neill: I'll agree to 3 dollars in future tax cuts for $1 in tax increases now!
W: We dramatically raise Social Security and Medicare taxes, then the system is solvent for our children!
Trump: I'll end free trade, but I'll replace it with better deals!

It's a sucker deal

We should lower the corporate tax rate to 15%, tax it only on US income, scrap all these offshore shells that are merely tax avoidance, and set up a review of all regulations, with the goal of dramatically deregulating the economy.

That would be way better than we have now. That Trump and his worshipers are bashing free market capitalists like us shows what a carnival show they are. How does the Republican candidate win while declaring fiscal conservatives his enemy? It's hard to see

you are disconnected from reality. Trump is a free market capitalist. Wanting fair international trade agreements is at the heart of free market capitalism. When the Chinese and Mexican manipulate currencies and taxes, that is destroying the free market.

I really thought you were smarter than that.

 

[kaz]

1. Automation doesn't stop Germany from having TWICE the rate of manufacturing employment as we do. That's a lot of jobs you are just giving up on. That's a lot of jobs that CAN come back.

2. The Trade Policy we have NOW is redistributing wealth. From the workers who don't want to move to China so they can work at slave labor in unsafe polluted environments to the "capitalists" who CAN move their investments and production there.

3. Capitalism does not mean that we have to accept playing with rules slanted against US.

4. "Creative destruction" is supposed to lead to new growth. I've been waiting for that for 40 years. It is not working.

5. It is a bad bargain. We don't have good or fair access to their market and they are ripping US off for tens of billions.

6. All of our major trade partners have Trade Surpluses with US. IF you compare what has happened to the Rust Belt over the last 40 years to what has happened to Japan, and Germany and South Korea, and China, a reasonable observer would have to conclude the Trade Deficits are BAD, and Trade Surpluses are GOOD.

Manufacturing jobs in Germany are half that in the economy compared to 40 years ago.

Percent of Employment in Manufacturing in Germany (DISCONTINUED)

Germany also is under the same trade agreements with the China as a co-signer of the WTO.

German workers also work less than American workers.

Yes, and some manufacturing will move offshore because of wages. That's not all bad as it creates more markets and American allies and it makes American products more price competitive and benefits consumers. And it's the way capitalism works. As you pointed out before, should we have 50% of people working in agriculture like they did a century ago?

What we need to stop is driving companies offshore to escape the American government and it's punitive tax and regulations. And Correll knows better than to trust government that hey, we want to restrict trade, but only to expand free trade!

I've seen those deals from government all my life. Never seen the second part actually happen once they have the first part.

Obama: Obamacare will drive healthcare costs down! We gotta give government control over healthcare, then watch the prices fall!
Tip O'Neill: I'll agree to 3 dollars in future tax cuts for $1 in tax increases now!
W: We dramatically raise Social Security and Medicare taxes, then the system is solvent for our children!
Trump: I'll end free trade, but I'll replace it with better deals!

It's a sucker deal

We should lower the corporate tax rate to 15%, tax it only on US income, scrap all these offshore shells that are merely tax avoidance, and set up a review of all regulations, with the goal of dramatically deregulating the economy.

That would be way better than we have now. That Trump and his worshipers are bashing free market capitalists like us shows what a carnival show they are. How does the Republican candidate win while declaring fiscal conservatives his enemy? It's hard to see

you are disconnected from reality. Trump is a free market capitalist. Wanting fair international trade agreements is at the heart of free market capitalism. When the Chinese and Mexican manipulate currencies and taxes, that is destroying the free market.

I really thought you were smarter than that.

Light is darkness, black is white, removing free trade is improving free trade!

Bull, he's been specific. His proposal to tax Carrier $1,500 for every air conditioner then bring in from Mexico if they move there proved that

 

[Toro]

1. Automation doesn't stop Germany from having TWICE the rate of manufacturing employment as we do. That's a lot of jobs you are just giving up on. That's a lot of jobs that CAN come back.

2. The Trade Policy we have NOW is redistributing wealth. From the workers who don't want to move to China so they can work at slave labor in unsafe polluted environments to the "capitalists" who CAN move their investments and production there.

3. Capitalism does not mean that we have to accept playing with rules slanted against US.

4. "Creative destruction" is supposed to lead to new growth. I've been waiting for that for 40 years. It is not working.

5. It is a bad bargain. We don't have good or fair access to their market and they are ripping US off for tens of billions.

6. All of our major trade partners have Trade Surpluses with US. IF you compare what has happened to the Rust Belt over the last 40 years to what has happened to Japan, and Germany and South Korea, and China, a reasonable observer would have to conclude the Trade Deficits are BAD, and Trade Surpluses are GOOD.

Manufacturing jobs in Germany are half that in the economy compared to 40 years ago.

Percent of Employment in Manufacturing in Germany (DISCONTINUED)

Germany also is under the same trade agreements with the China as a co-signer of the WTO.

German workers also work less than American workers.

Yes, and some manufacturing will move offshore because of wages. That's not all bad as it creates more markets and American allies and it makes American products more price competitive and benefits consumers. And it's the way capitalism works. As you pointed out before, should we have 50% of people working in agriculture like they did a century ago?

What we need to stop is driving companies offshore to escape the American government and it's punitive tax and regulations. And Correll knows better than to trust government that hey, we want to restrict trade, but only to expand free trade!

I've seen those deals from government all my life. Never seen the second part actually happen once they have the first part.

Obama: Obamacare will drive healthcare costs down! We gotta give government control over healthcare, then watch the prices fall!
Tip O'Neill: I'll agree to 3 dollars in future tax cuts for $1 in tax increases now!
W: We dramatically raise Social Security and Medicare taxes, then the system is solvent for our children!
Trump: I'll end free trade, but I'll replace it with better deals!

It's a sucker deal

We should lower the corporate tax rate to 15%, tax it only on US income, scrap all these offshore shells that are merely tax avoidance, and set up a review of all regulations, with the goal of dramatically deregulating the economy.

That would be way better than we have now. That Trump and his worshipers are bashing free market capitalists like us shows what a carnival show they are. How does the Republican candidate win while declaring fiscal conservatives his enemy? It's hard to see

you are disconnected from reality. Trump is a free market capitalist. Wanting fair international trade agreements is at the heart of free market capitalism. When the Chinese and Mexican manipulate currencies and taxes, that is destroying the free market.

I really thought you were smarter than that.

False

Mexico doesn't manipulate its currency.

The US has manipulated its currency more than Mexico over the past decade with all its QE.

And now the yuan is overvalued.

Republican Trump supporters who claim to be liberty-loving conservatives are making up shit to rationalize massive tax hikes and government interference in the economy that would make liberals blush.

kaz is correct. Trump has entered us into bizarro upside down world. And the people whom Trump said would support him even if he shot people on 5th Avenue parrot his every word.

 

[ptbw forever]

The world changes. You John Birchers would have kept blacksmiths because they need the job, we'd as Toro pointed out still be an agriculture society because farmers needed the job. We'd be the poorest country on the planet instead of the richest.

Nothing I've said supports that

You repeatedly argue that we can't move offshore because workers can't compete. Yeah, the world changes. We need to embrace change, not fight it.

What you didn't address was my point. Let's stop the government artificially incenting companies to move off shore with our insane tax and regulatory environment.

Those policies being created by the government you are willing to empower to remove our right to trade freely. Oh, but you explained. They want to help. You're assigning the criminal the ability to fix crime. Yeah, that's well thought through.

What if we start by doing things we can on our end without help from anyone. Trump is silent on that. He doesn't even bring it up as a problem

Funny how a supposed right winger embraces "change" so mindlessly....

 

[Rozman]

I'm trying to picture what type of TRUMP sign will be on the WH lawn....
Maybe 15 ft high with small white bulbs to light it up at night...

Neon would just be tacky....

 

[ptbw forever]

Manufacturing jobs in Germany are half that in the economy compared to 40 years ago.

Percent of Employment in Manufacturing in Germany (DISCONTINUED)

Germany also is under the same trade agreements with the China as a co-signer of the WTO.

German workers also work less than American workers.

Yes, and some manufacturing will move offshore because of wages. That's not all bad as it creates more markets and American allies and it makes American products more price competitive and benefits consumers. And it's the way capitalism works. As you pointed out before, should we have 50% of people working in agriculture like they did a century ago?

What we need to stop is driving companies offshore to escape the American government and it's punitive tax and regulations. And Correll knows better than to trust government that hey, we want to restrict trade, but only to expand free trade!

I've seen those deals from government all my life. Never seen the second part actually happen once they have the first part.

Obama: Obamacare will drive healthcare costs down! We gotta give government control over healthcare, then watch the prices fall!
Tip O'Neill: I'll agree to 3 dollars in future tax cuts for $1 in tax increases now!
W: We dramatically raise Social Security and Medicare taxes, then the system is solvent for our children!
Trump: I'll end free trade, but I'll replace it with better deals!

It's a sucker deal

We should lower the corporate tax rate to 15%, tax it only on US income, scrap all these offshore shells that are merely tax avoidance, and set up a review of all regulations, with the goal of dramatically deregulating the economy.

That would be way better than we have now. That Trump and his worshipers are bashing free market capitalists like us shows what a carnival show they are. How does the Republican candidate win while declaring fiscal conservatives his enemy? It's hard to see

you are disconnected from reality. Trump is a free market capitalist. Wanting fair international trade agreements is at the heart of free market capitalism. When the Chinese and Mexican manipulate currencies and taxes, that is destroying the free market.

I really thought you were smarter than that.

False

Mexico doesn't manipulate its currency.

The US has manipulated its currency more than Mexico over the past decade with all its QE.

And now the yuan is overvalued.

Republican Trump supporters who claim to be liberty-loving conservatives are making up shit to rationalize massive tax hikes and government interference in the economy that would make liberals blush.

kaz is correct. Trump has entered us into bizarro upside down world. And the people whom Trump said would support him even if he shot people on 5th Avenue parrot his every word.

You don't seem to understand.

Trump voters were around long before Trump. It doesn't matter if he goes off the reservation on economic issues, because he wants to close the border off to unlimited, illegal immigration, and that is easily the most important issue.

If you are for open borders you aren't a conservative, and that is what it boils down to.

 

[Toro]

WTF? Reagan kicked off a 25 year economic run. Learn history

A Rising Tide was supposed to Lift All Boats.

You ever walk down the streets of small town Rust Belt America and you will know that that did not happen.


That is the history of the last 40 years.

You're delving deeper and deeper into leftist ideology. The equally rising boats are opportunity, not handouts, comrade. Government taps you on the shoulder and gives you cash. Opportunity is what you earn. I was born in the rust belt and ended up doing great! Why? I left.

And again I addressed this. GOVERNMENT created the rust belt. And you are advocating giving government the power to further restrict our freedom to fix it. Yeah, that's going to happen ...

The Rising Tide was supposed to be increasing jobs and wages and lifestyles and socio-economic status.


"Opportunity" is a myth if Trade Policy removes all or even most of the good jobs from an area or a nation.

You managed to get a piece of a shrinking pie. Good for you.

Government taxes, tax structure and regulations are killing jobs. Repeating a lie that free trade harms the economy doesn't make it so. I'll believe my education and experience over you.

And again, you keep making sound like we are disagreeing on the fundamental point. I said Trump is anti-capitalist, anti-free trade. You are saying that is why you like him, not that I'm wrong

This country used tariffs for most of it's history to build up and retain industries. Formerly dirt poor Red China has been built on the loss of the US manufacturing job base. Now we have to buy stuff from them previously made in this country, and they have our dollars with which to buy our assets. Go Trump I say.

You are advocating 19th century economics. Do you want 19th century medicine too?

Why don't you just admit you're a liberal who wants Big Gubmint to redistribute wealth? You'll be intellectually honest if you do.

 

[SmokeALib]

HilLIARy has lived off taxpayers most if her career, sucking money from taxpayers to further her leftist agenda.
Trump has made millions and has provided thousands of jobs in the private sector.
I know what you're gonna say, he filed bankruptcy numerous times.
I say, he LEGALLY took advantage of the bankruptcy laws to further his own personal wealth, and to keep his companies profitable, thus keeping taxpayers on the payroll.
This is the kind of business sense we need - somebody that can find an opening, and take advantage of it.
There is no reason to not believe he can't do the same thing with a government 20 trillion in debt, which was doubled from 10 trillion since The Blamer took office.
Debt equals weakness.
My vote will have to go to Trump.

 

[jasonnfree]

A Rising Tide was supposed to Lift All Boats.

You ever walk down the streets of small town Rust Belt America and you will know that that did not happen.


That is the history of the last 40 years.

You're delving deeper and deeper into leftist ideology. The equally rising boats are opportunity, not handouts, comrade. Government taps you on the shoulder and gives you cash. Opportunity is what you earn. I was born in the rust belt and ended up doing great! Why? I left.

And again I addressed this. GOVERNMENT created the rust belt. And you are advocating giving government the power to further restrict our freedom to fix it. Yeah, that's going to happen ...

The Rising Tide was supposed to be increasing jobs and wages and lifestyles and socio-economic status.


"Opportunity" is a myth if Trade Policy removes all or even most of the good jobs from an area or a nation.

You managed to get a piece of a shrinking pie. Good for you.

Government taxes, tax structure and regulations are killing jobs. Repeating a lie that free trade harms the economy doesn't make it so. I'll believe my education and experience over you.

And again, you keep making sound like we are disagreeing on the fundamental point. I said Trump is anti-capitalist, anti-free trade. You are saying that is why you like him, not that I'm wrong

This country used tariffs for most of it's history to build up and retain industries. Formerly dirt poor Red China has been built on the loss of the US manufacturing job base. Now we have to buy stuff from them previously made in this country, and they have our dollars with which to buy our assets. Go Trump I say.

You are advocating 19th century economics. Do you want 19th century medicine too?

Why don't you just admit you're a liberal who wants Big Gubmint to redistribute wealth? You'll be intellectually honest if you do.

This country had tariffs well into the 20th Century. Have you noticed how China was a third world country until the USA job market moved there? Do you think China doesn't protect it's manufacturing sector also? Big gubmint redistributes wealth to certain sectors here also. It subsidizes big agriculture for one. One reason why Mexico farming sector went down the tubes after Nafta. There's really no free market after all.

 

[kaz]

The world changes. You John Birchers would have kept blacksmiths because they need the job, we'd as Toro pointed out still be an agriculture society because farmers needed the job. We'd be the poorest country on the planet instead of the richest.

Nothing I've said supports that

You repeatedly argue that we can't move offshore because workers can't compete. Yeah, the world changes. We need to embrace change, not fight it.

What you didn't address was my point. Let's stop the government artificially incenting companies to move off shore with our insane tax and regulatory environment.

Those policies being created by the government you are willing to empower to remove our right to trade freely. Oh, but you explained. They want to help. You're assigning the criminal the ability to fix crime. Yeah, that's well thought through.

What if we start by doing things we can on our end without help from anyone. Trump is silent on that. He doesn't even bring it up as a problem

Funny how a supposed right winger embraces "change" so mindlessly....

Fuck you, loser. What a contentless response. Remember this in November when you losers see you lost and you told fiscal conservatives to go fuck ourselves. Actually, we're going to fuck you

 

[kaz]

Yes, and some manufacturing will move offshore because of wages. That's not all bad as it creates more markets and American allies and it makes American products more price competitive and benefits consumers. And it's the way capitalism works. As you pointed out before, should we have 50% of people working in agriculture like they did a century ago?

What we need to stop is driving companies offshore to escape the American government and it's punitive tax and regulations. And Correll knows better than to trust government that hey, we want to restrict trade, but only to expand free trade!

I've seen those deals from government all my life. Never seen the second part actually happen once they have the first part.

Obama: Obamacare will drive healthcare costs down! We gotta give government control over healthcare, then watch the prices fall!
Tip O'Neill: I'll agree to 3 dollars in future tax cuts for $1 in tax increases now!
W: We dramatically raise Social Security and Medicare taxes, then the system is solvent for our children!
Trump: I'll end free trade, but I'll replace it with better deals!

It's a sucker deal

We should lower the corporate tax rate to 15%, tax it only on US income, scrap all these offshore shells that are merely tax avoidance, and set up a review of all regulations, with the goal of dramatically deregulating the economy.

That would be way better than we have now. That Trump and his worshipers are bashing free market capitalists like us shows what a carnival show they are. How does the Republican candidate win while declaring fiscal conservatives his enemy? It's hard to see

you are disconnected from reality. Trump is a free market capitalist. Wanting fair international trade agreements is at the heart of free market capitalism. When the Chinese and Mexican manipulate currencies and taxes, that is destroying the free market.

I really thought you were smarter than that.

False

Mexico doesn't manipulate its currency.

The US has manipulated its currency more than Mexico over the past decade with all its QE.

And now the yuan is overvalued.

Republican Trump supporters who claim to be liberty-loving conservatives are making up shit to rationalize massive tax hikes and government interference in the economy that would make liberals blush.

kaz is correct. Trump has entered us into bizarro upside down world. And the people whom Trump said would support him even if he shot people on 5th Avenue parrot his every word.

You don't seem to understand.

Trump voters were around long before Trump. It doesn't matter if he goes off the reservation on economic issues, because he wants to close the border off to unlimited, illegal immigration, and that is easily the most important issue.

If you are for open borders you aren't a conservative, and that is what it boils down to.

And if he has to make every fiscal conservative left in America vote against him to do it, he's in!

 

[ptbw forever]

The world changes. You John Birchers would have kept blacksmiths because they need the job, we'd as Toro pointed out still be an agriculture society because farmers needed the job. We'd be the poorest country on the planet instead of the richest.

Nothing I've said supports that

You repeatedly argue that we can't move offshore because workers can't compete. Yeah, the world changes. We need to embrace change, not fight it.

What you didn't address was my point. Let's stop the government artificially incenting companies to move off shore with our insane tax and regulatory environment.

Those policies being created by the government you are willing to empower to remove our right to trade freely. Oh, but you explained. They want to help. You're assigning the criminal the ability to fix crime. Yeah, that's well thought through.

What if we start by doing things we can on our end without help from anyone. Trump is silent on that. He doesn't even bring it up as a problem

Funny how a supposed right winger embraces "change" so mindlessly....

Fuck you, loser. What a contentless response. Remember this in November when you losers see you lost and you told fiscal conservatives to go fuck ourselves. Actually, we're going to fuck you

If Hillary wins you will lose a lot more than we do....

 

[Toro]

You're delving deeper and deeper into leftist ideology. The equally rising boats are opportunity, not handouts, comrade. Government taps you on the shoulder and gives you cash. Opportunity is what you earn. I was born in the rust belt and ended up doing great! Why? I left.

And again I addressed this. GOVERNMENT created the rust belt. And you are advocating giving government the power to further restrict our freedom to fix it. Yeah, that's going to happen ...

The Rising Tide was supposed to be increasing jobs and wages and lifestyles and socio-economic status.


"Opportunity" is a myth if Trade Policy removes all or even most of the good jobs from an area or a nation.

You managed to get a piece of a shrinking pie. Good for you.

Government taxes, tax structure and regulations are killing jobs. Repeating a lie that free trade harms the economy doesn't make it so. I'll believe my education and experience over you.

And again, you keep making sound like we are disagreeing on the fundamental point. I said Trump is anti-capitalist, anti-free trade. You are saying that is why you like him, not that I'm wrong

This country used tariffs for most of it's history to build up and retain industries. Formerly dirt poor Red China has been built on the loss of the US manufacturing job base. Now we have to buy stuff from them previously made in this country, and they have our dollars with which to buy our assets. Go Trump I say.

You are advocating 19th century economics. Do you want 19th century medicine too?

Why don't you just admit you're a liberal who wants Big Gubmint to redistribute wealth? You'll be intellectually honest if you do.

This country had tariffs well into the 20th Century. Have you noticed how China was a third world country until the USA job market moved there? Do you think China doesn't protect it's manufacturing sector also? Big gubmint redistributes wealth to certain sectors here also. It subsidizes big agriculture for one. One reason why Mexico farming sector went down the tubes after Nafta. There's really no free market after all.

You sound like a liberal.

Why do you hate liberty and capitalism?

You Democrats always have.

 

[Muhammed]

I just watched his speech and he never said a complete sentence without waving his arms and throwing in self serving comments before he completed it. The guy should really be in an insane asylum!.....And He's Very Ugly!

When is the last time Hillary built a wall, dumb ass?