Sex offender claims religious rights denied

[Neubarth]

i can tell you that the case law doesn't concur. Because the right to practice one's religion is a fundamental right specifically guaranteed by the 1st amendment, any regulation of that right is subjected to strict scrutiny by the courts. That would mean that the government would have to show a substantial governmental interest in the specific regulation.

There would be such an interest in keeping firearms from a felon.

I think a prosecutor could make the case that this individual does not have Christian values therefore his religion which embraces "child pornography" is not compatible with the churches any more than if a muslim wanted to set up camp in a christian church.

Are Jehovah Witnesses considered Christian? I'm not sure they are.

Civil Liberties Union lawyer Barbara Keshen said the court's ruling could determine the religious rights of people who are under court supervision, on either parole or probation. AP: Sex offender wants permission to attend church - Sunday, Jun. 20, 2010

Actually, the son of a bitch should just be put to death. God says that all sexual perverts should be stoned to death as soon as possible outside of town. By failing to comply with God's instructions we have brought condemnation upon ourselves.

Take that perverted ass to the outside of town and have an aggressive stoning and get it over with. Do that to all perverts and clean up the country.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I think a prosecutor could make the case that this individual does not have Christian values therefore his religion which embraces "child pornography" is not compatible with the churches any more than if a muslim wanted to set up camp in a christian church.

Are Jehovah Witnesses considered Christian? I'm not sure they are.

Civil Liberties Union lawyer Barbara Keshen said the court's ruling could determine the religious rights of people who are under court supervision, on either parole or probation. AP: Sex offender wants permission to attend church - Sunday, Jun. 20, 2010

Actually, the son of a bitch should just be put to death. God says that all sexual perverts should be stoned to death as soon as possible outside of town. By failing to comply with God's instructions we have brought condemnation upon ourselves.

Take that perverted ass to the outside of town and have an aggressive stoning and get it over with. Do that to all perverts and clean up the country.

Ah, our loving Christian message brought to you by Neubarth. You've got killing on the brain, Neubarth,

For the record, I don't think this guy ought to attend Church services. He can listen by phone and practice at home, sending out letters to witness instead of visiting homes.

 

[strollingbones]

i can tell you that the case law doesn't concur. Because the right to practice one's religion is a fundamental right specifically guaranteed by the 1st amendment, any regulation of that right is subjected to strict scrutiny by the courts. That would mean that the government would have to show a substantial governmental interest in the specific regulation.

There would be such an interest in keeping firearms from a felon.

I think a prosecutor could make the case that this individual does not have Christian values therefore his religion which embraces "child pornography" is not compatible with the churches any more than if a muslim wanted to set up camp in a christian church.

Are Jehovah Witnesses considered Christian? I'm not sure they are.

Civil Liberties Union lawyer Barbara Keshen said the court's ruling could determine the religious rights of people who are under court supervision, on either parole or probation. AP: Sex offender wants permission to attend church - Sunday, Jun. 20, 2010

why wouldnt they be considered christians? they believe in christ and salvation...

 

[Sky Dancer]

I think a prosecutor could make the case that this individual does not have Christian values therefore his religion which embraces "child pornography" is not compatible with the churches any more than if a muslim wanted to set up camp in a christian church.

Are Jehovah Witnesses considered Christian? I'm not sure they are.

Civil Liberties Union lawyer Barbara Keshen said the court's ruling could determine the religious rights of people who are under court supervision, on either parole or probation. AP: Sex offender wants permission to attend church - Sunday, Jun. 20, 2010

why wouldnt they be considered christians? they believe in christ and salvation...

WikiAnswers - Are Jehovah's Witnesses considered a Christian denomination by anyone else but themselves

This author considers JW a non-christian cult:
http://www.carm.org/is-the-jehovahs-witness-religion-christian

 

[Barb]

His religious rights have not been violated. If he wants to be a Jehovah's Witness ... he can have them come to his house - they'd be more than willing to do so. Worshiping God does not require one's physical appearance in church. For that matter, what kind of truly religious Christian person participates in activity that God would condemn in the first place. He can't have it both ways and my vote would be to err on the side of a child's safety.

I would agree to most of what you say here Granny, but in answer to the question in bold, the answer would be "most." Not THAT mind you, but various other things.

 

[Nosmo King]

I think a prosecutor could make the case that this individual does not have Christian values therefore his religion which embraces "child pornography" is not compatible with the churches any more than if a muslim wanted to set up camp in a christian church.

Are Jehovah Witnesses considered Christian? I'm not sure they are.

Civil Liberties Union lawyer Barbara Keshen said the court's ruling could determine the religious rights of people who are under court supervision, on either parole or probation. AP: Sex offender wants permission to attend church - Sunday, Jun. 20, 2010

Actually, the son of a bitch should just be put to death. God says that all sexual perverts should be stoned to death as soon as possible outside of town. By failing to comply with God's instructions we have brought condemnation upon ourselves.

Take that perverted ass to the outside of town and have an aggressive stoning and get it over with. Do that to all perverts and clean up the country.

Sharia law?

 

[hortysir]

His religious rights have not been violated. If he wants to be a Jehovah's Witness ... he can have them come to his house - they'd be more than willing to do so. Worshiping God does not require one's physical appearance in church. For that matter, what kind of truly religious Christian person participates in activity that God would condemn in the first place. He can't have it both ways and my vote would be to err on the side of a child's safety.

I would agree to most of what you say here Granny, but in answer to the question in bold, the answer would be "most." Not THAT mind you, but various other things.

Just to pipe in here for a sec.
Not so sure he *was* religious, at first.
Maybe he's trying to change?

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Yes.

i can tell you that the case law doesn't concur. Because the right to practice one's religion is a fundamental right specifically guaranteed by the 1st amendment, any regulation of that right is subjected to strict scrutiny by the courts. That would mean that the government would have to show a substantial governmental interest in the specific regulation.

There would be such an interest in keeping firearms from a felon.

I think a prosecutor could make the case that this individual does not have Christian values therefore his religion which embraces "child pornography" is not compatible with the churches any more than if a muslim wanted to set up camp in a christian church.

or cook pork chops, for that matter.

 

[Barb]

His religious rights have not been violated. If he wants to be a Jehovah's Witness ... he can have them come to his house - they'd be more than willing to do so. Worshiping God does not require one's physical appearance in church. For that matter, what kind of truly religious Christian person participates in activity that God would condemn in the first place. He can't have it both ways and my vote would be to err on the side of a child's safety.

I would agree to most of what you say here Granny, but in answer to the question in bold, the answer would be "most." Not THAT mind you, but various other things.

Just to pipe in here for a sec.
Not so sure he *was* religious, at first.
Maybe he's trying to change?

Okay, but assuming he was, there are other restrictions people violate as easy as breathing. That was my main point.
Assuming he wasn't, religion isn't the only path to change.
Or
Maybe you mean he's trying to rehabilitate his image by the appearance of religious piety, or to join a socially acceptable group, that is also possible.

 

[hortysir]

I would agree to most of what you say here Granny, but in answer to the question in bold, the answer would be "most." Not THAT mind you, but various other things.

Just to pipe in here for a sec.
Not so sure he *was* religious, at first.
Maybe he's trying to change?

Okay, but assuming he was, there are other restrictions people violate as easy as breathing. That was my main point.
Assuming he wasn't, religion isn't the only path to change.
Or
Maybe you mean he's trying to rehabilitate his image by the appearance of religious piety, or to join a socially acceptable group, that is also possible.

I wasn't arguing your point at all, Barb.
Just making a distinction, is all

Let the guy sit at home and study the Bible. Let the Spirit work in him to find the answers he seeks.
If he is sincere in his hopes to change, he won't need a church to do it.

 

[Barb]

Just to pipe in here for a sec.
Not so sure he *was* religious, at first.
Maybe he's trying to change?

Okay, but assuming he was, there are other restrictions people violate as easy as breathing. That was my main point.
Assuming he wasn't, religion isn't the only path to change.
Or
Maybe you mean he's trying to rehabilitate his image by the appearance of religious piety, or to join a socially acceptable group, that is also possible.

I wasn't arguing your point at all, Barb.
Just making a distinction, is all

Let the guy sit at home and study the Bible. Let the Spirit work in him to find the answers he seeks.
If he is sincere in his hopes to change, he won't need a church to do it.

Okay
but you could argue my point if you wanted to, I don't bite unless you ask real nice, and meet the specific (and classified) age and height requirements.

 

[Anguille]

It's an interesting case. They're basically saying that going to a Church is a religious freedom as opposed to this guy just practicing prayer, contemplation and meditation at home. It's as if the institution of the Church has the rights.

If anyone needs religious practice this guy does. If I were a member of his Church I would be very concerned about his attendance. Some Churches feel that they need to minister to the worst sinners in their congregation and will not kick out a member even when he's hurt another member.

I disaggree. I think he needs psychological help. Religion may have even contributed to his problem.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Can a sex offender be 'saved'? What sins are beyond redemption? How can a religion respond skillfully to the sinners/criminals among us?

 

[Barb]

Can a sex offender be 'saved'? What sins are beyond redemption?

Does it have to be couched in "sin?"

Maybe, to what offense to society is grace not extended by others? Does it matter the age or mental capacity? For instance, are children under a given age (say, puberty) held as innocent because they should not have been exposed, stimulated, or used in a sex act against another youngster? If the difference in age is the within the year between consent and majority and consensual?

To answer the main point of your question, where violence or true predation is concerned, I'm too biased to make an informed statement about rehabilitation.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Can a sex offender be 'saved'? What sins are beyond redemption?

Does it have to be couched in "sin?"

Maybe, to what offense to society is grace not extended by others? Does it matter the age or mental capacity? For instance, are children under a given age (say, puberty) held as innocent because they should not have been exposed, stimulated, or used in a sex act against another youngster? If the difference in age is the within the year between consent and majority and consensual?

To answer the main point of your question, where violence or true predation is concerned, I'm too biased to make an informed statement about rehabilitation.

No, it doesn't have to be couched in 'sin' terminology. We would call it 'non-virtue' in Buddhism.

I don't think the JW are wrong in reaching out to the sex offender member of their congregation. I think they may be naive, however to think he merely needs a chaperone. The guy got off on looking at children. The JW are not above the law. The law states this man cannot be around children, at all.

 

[Neubarth]

Can a sex offender be 'saved'? What sins are beyond redemption? How can a religion respond skillfully to the sinners/criminals among us?

God says, "Kill them!" (i.e. Don't worry about their salvation.) He has made it clear over and over again that perverts like that will not spend eternity with Him.

 

[syrenn]

he is not being denied or bared the right to practice his religion, he is being bared from a place where children may be. I am sure that he can go to "church" on days and at times when it is empty.

Sorry don't care if HIS rights are being violated in any way shape or form. He gave up his rights when he became a pedophile. HIS rights mean nothing as long as HIS rights may put innocent children in danger.

 

[Neubarth]

Are Jehovah Witnesses considered Christian? I'm not sure they are.

Civil Liberties Union lawyer Barbara Keshen said the court's ruling could determine the religious rights of people who are under court supervision, on either parole or probation. AP: Sex offender wants permission to attend church - Sunday, Jun. 20, 2010

Actually, the son of a bitch should just be put to death. God says that all sexual perverts should be stoned to death as soon as possible outside of town. By failing to comply with God's instructions we have brought condemnation upon ourselves.

Take that perverted ass to the outside of town and have an aggressive stoning and get it over with. Do that to all perverts and clean up the country.

Ah, our loving Christian message brought to you by Neubarth. You've got killing on the brain, Neubarth,

For the record, I don't think this guy ought to attend Church services. He can listen by phone and practice at home, sending out letters to witness instead of visiting homes.

It is not killing on the brain. It IS compliance with God's instructions. He gave us very specific instructions about sexual degeneracy. Take them all to the outside of town and stone them in the stoning pit. There is no second guessing. We are to follow God's orders exactly as He mandated them. We do not have the right to pick and chose which ones of God's instructions we are going to obey.

 

[Avatar4321]

When due process of law is upheld, rights may be suspended or abolished. The right to life, for example, is eliminated when someone has been given due process and convicted of a Capital crime.

Religious belief is a right. But being in prison doesn't prevent you from believing what you choose or even practicing your belief to the extent any prisoner can. They aren't going to let you go on pilgrimages, for example, if you are incarcerated. That's just absurd.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Can a sex offender be 'saved'? What sins are beyond redemption? How can a religion respond skillfully to the sinners/criminals among us?

God says, "Kill them!" (i.e. Don't worry about their salvation.) He has made it clear over and over again that perverts like that will not spend eternity with Him.

New Testament changed that. Or have you forgotten "forgive the sinner" "turn the other cheek" and all of Jesus message? How about " let he with out sin cast the first stone".

If he is a Christian the bible commands fellowship as a requirement also. He did not lose his 1st Amendment rights. If they bar him from church they are establishing a very bad precedent.