Sexual Harrassment - what is it and what isn't it?

[Coyote]

We've reached a rather dangerous tipping point...and I don't know where it will go or how we should handle it.

It's a fact that women endure a great deal of harrassment from men. Over Thanksgiving, my mother told me some of what she had to put up with as a professional woman scientists in a male dominated profession. I'm sure that is not unique.

It seems that Weinstein finally provided the tipping point for women to speak up about it. That for once they can without having their reputations trashed as sluts.

But it also seems that there is a rush - people are being fired rapidly, based on accusation, with little recourse to a defense. It's possible we simply don't hear the whole story...I'm not so sure about this rush to judgement.

I also think that people are lumping everything into the "sexual assault" category when it might not be.

There is a difference between a wolf whistle on the street corner and grabbing a woman's bum. There is a difference between grabbing a woman's bum and forceably kissing her. And there is a difference between forceably kissing her and raping her. They shouldn't all be treated the same.

There is the expectation of a certain professional code of conduct in the workplace - and there should be well established rules and a means of redress when boundaries are crossed. But I have to wonder - will men now be afraid to put a comforting arm around an upset woman? Provide a compliment on how she looks?

It's a bit of a Pandora's box...that needed to be opened, because women were silenced and shamed for so long...yet, there is more than we can handle there.

 

[MindWars]

We've reached a rather dangerous tipping point...and I don't know where it will go or how we should handle it.

It's a fact that women endure a great deal of harrassment from men. Over Thanksgiving, my mother told me some of what she had to put up with as a professional woman scientists in a male dominated profession. I'm sure that is not unique.

It seems that Weinstein finally provided the tipping point for women to speak up about it. That for once they can without having their reputations trashed as sluts.

But it also seems that there is a rush - people are being fired rapidly, based on accusation, with little recourse to a defense. It's possible we simply don't hear the whole story...I'm not so sure about this rush to judgement.

I also think that people are lumping everything into the "sexual assault" category when it might not be.

There is a difference between a wolf whistle on the street corner and grabbing a woman's bum. There is a difference between grabbing a woman's bum and forceably kissing her. And there is a difference between forceably kissing her and raping her. They shouldn't all be treated the same.

There is the expectation of a certain professional code of conduct in the workplace - and there should be well established rules and a means of redress when boundaries are crossed. But I have to wonder - will men now be afraid to put a comforting arm around an upset woman? Provide a compliment on how she looks?

It's a bit of a Pandora's box...that needed to be opened, because women were silenced and shamed for so long...yet, there is more than we can handle there.

I think men will become fearful of working with or around women in general.
I think this is going to push men into " not liking women" if this keeps up who knows that may be the feminist goal.

Imagine the poor military and what those men will have to endure when there are no witnesses on a deployment.

 

[ScienceRocks]

We've reached a rather dangerous tipping point...and I don't know where it will go or how we should handle it.

It's a fact that women endure a great deal of harrassment from men. Over Thanksgiving, my mother told me some of what she had to put up with as a professional woman scientists in a male dominated profession. I'm sure that is not unique.

It seems that Weinstein finally provided the tipping point for women to speak up about it. That for once they can without having their reputations trashed as sluts.

But it also seems that there is a rush - people are being fired rapidly, based on accusation, with little recourse to a defense. It's possible we simply don't hear the whole story...I'm not so sure about this rush to judgement.

I also think that people are lumping everything into the "sexual assault" category when it might not be.

There is a difference between a wolf whistle on the street corner and grabbing a woman's bum. There is a difference between grabbing a woman's bum and forceably kissing her. And there is a difference between forceably kissing her and raping her. They shouldn't all be treated the same.

There is the expectation of a certain professional code of conduct in the workplace - and there should be well established rules and a means of redress when boundaries are crossed. But I have to wonder - will men now be afraid to put a comforting arm around an upset woman? Provide a compliment on how she looks?

It's a bit of a Pandora's box...that needed to be opened, because women were silenced and shamed for so long...yet, there is more than we can handle there.

I think men will become fearful of working with or around women in general.
I think this is going to push men into " not liking women" if this keeps up who knows that may be the feminist goal.

Imagine the poor military and what those men will have to endure when there are no witnesses on a deployment.

probably...What else will happen is men will become less likely to hire females out of fear of having their lives ruined. Heck, maybe some will demand not to work with them.

 

[Coyote]

We've reached a rather dangerous tipping point...and I don't know where it will go or how we should handle it.

It's a fact that women endure a great deal of harrassment from men. Over Thanksgiving, my mother told me some of what she had to put up with as a professional woman scientists in a male dominated profession. I'm sure that is not unique.

It seems that Weinstein finally provided the tipping point for women to speak up about it. That for once they can without having their reputations trashed as sluts.

But it also seems that there is a rush - people are being fired rapidly, based on accusation, with little recourse to a defense. It's possible we simply don't hear the whole story...I'm not so sure about this rush to judgement.

I also think that people are lumping everything into the "sexual assault" category when it might not be.

There is a difference between a wolf whistle on the street corner and grabbing a woman's bum. There is a difference between grabbing a woman's bum and forceably kissing her. And there is a difference between forceably kissing her and raping her. They shouldn't all be treated the same.

There is the expectation of a certain professional code of conduct in the workplace - and there should be well established rules and a means of redress when boundaries are crossed. But I have to wonder - will men now be afraid to put a comforting arm around an upset woman? Provide a compliment on how she looks?

It's a bit of a Pandora's box...that needed to be opened, because women were silenced and shamed for so long...yet, there is more than we can handle there.

I think men will become fearful of working with or around women in general.
I think this is going to push men into " not liking women" if this keeps up who knows that may be the feminist goal.

Imagine the poor military and what those men will have to endure when there are no witnesses on a deployment.

probably...What else will happen is men will become less likely to hire females out of fear of having their lives ruined. Heck, maybe some will demand not to work with them.

But women have had to endure harrassment and assault in their professions in order to be able to work in those professions. That is not right either.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Pandora's Box indeed, the issue is the rush to fire someone on mere allegations. It's dangerous.

 

[SYTFE]

Things will even out when men start going after the women who "assault" or "harass" them. This DOES happen. I've personally been a victim of sexual assault by two different women. Yes, I liked it...but the point is that men are now at the mercy of claims UNLESS they start speaking up about how often it happens to them. Problem is that other men will laugh at them for speaking up about it because what women perceive as assault to them is a compliment when done to us. Men will have to get over that, or forever deal with being at the mercy of simply someone's word.

 

[Zander]

We've reached a rather dangerous tipping point...and I don't know where it will go or how we should handle it.

It's a fact that women endure a great deal of harrassment from men. Over Thanksgiving, my mother told me some of what she had to put up with as a professional woman scientists in a male dominated profession. I'm sure that is not unique.

It seems that Weinstein finally provided the tipping point for women to speak up about it. That for once they can without having their reputations trashed as sluts.

But it also seems that there is a rush - people are being fired rapidly, based on accusation, with little recourse to a defense. It's possible we simply don't hear the whole story...I'm not so sure about this rush to judgement.

I also think that people are lumping everything into the "sexual assault" category when it might not be.

There is a difference between a wolf whistle on the street corner and grabbing a woman's bum. There is a difference between grabbing a woman's bum and forceably kissing her. And there is a difference between forceably kissing her and raping her. They shouldn't all be treated the same.

There is the expectation of a certain professional code of conduct in the workplace - and there should be well established rules and a means of redress when boundaries are crossed. But I have to wonder - will men now be afraid to put a comforting arm around an upset woman? Provide a compliment on how she looks?

It's a bit of a Pandora's box...that needed to be opened, because women were silenced and shamed for so long...yet, there is more than we can handle there.

Well said.

Everyone needs to take a deep breath.

 

[Rambunctious]

I like Vice President Pence and his solution. Don't be in a room with a women alone...ever.

 

[Moonglow]

Screw that I'll be in a room alone with two women and can still make passes at them...But then again, my ads already state what the cold facts are in the meeting....Cover your asses, only hire the willing....Those gals with Daddy issues...

 

[ScienceRocks]

Pandora's Box indeed, the issue is the rush to fire someone on mere allegations. It's dangerous.

Yep, we have a system of innocent until proven guility for a reason. Such stuff can ruin peoples lives and believe me there's plenty of people that have no shame.

 

[MarathonMike]

Yes there is a big danger here in that the law is so vague and puts so much power in the hands of the woman accuser. It almost reverses the 'Innocent until proven Guilty' paradigm.

 

[Coyote]

Yes there is a big danger here in that the law is so vague and puts so much power in the hands of the woman accuser. It almost reverses the 'Innocent until proven Guilty' paradigm.

My feelings are mixed on this as well.

Because women making those accusations are automatically assumed to be liars or worse if they speak up. So they don't.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Imagine the poor military and what those men will have to endure when there are no witnesses on a deployment.

Rape and sexual assault is common in the military. Women don't belong there. Young women are just too naive about the workings of the male mind. Most can control themselves, but a large percentage do not. They take advantage when they can.

 

[Coyote]

Imagine the poor military and what those men will have to endure when there are no witnesses on a deployment.

Rape and sexual assault is common in the military. Women don't belong there. Young women are just too naive about the workings of the male mind. Most can control themselves, but a large percentage do not. They take advantage when they can.

Is it being male or is it the culture of the profession?

 

[Pogo]

Pandora's Box indeed, the issue is the rush to fire someone on mere allegations. It's dangerous.

And in some cases allegations that have nothing to do with the position they're fired from anyway. As if they're some moral Taliban.

 

[SYTFE]

It may get to the point to where all men have to wear body cams on the job, including congress.

 

[Syriusly]

We've reached a rather dangerous tipping point...and I don't know where it will go or how we should handle it.

It's a fact that women endure a great deal of harrassment from men. Over Thanksgiving, my mother told me some of what she had to put up with as a professional woman scientists in a male dominated profession. I'm sure that is not unique.

It seems that Weinstein finally provided the tipping point for women to speak up about it. That for once they can without having their reputations trashed as sluts.

But it also seems that there is a rush - people are being fired rapidly, based on accusation, with little recourse to a defense. It's possible we simply don't hear the whole story...I'm not so sure about this rush to judgement.

I also think that people are lumping everything into the "sexual assault" category when it might not be.

There is a difference between a wolf whistle on the street corner and grabbing a woman's bum. There is a difference between grabbing a woman's bum and forceably kissing her. And there is a difference between forceably kissing her and raping her. They shouldn't all be treated the same.

There is the expectation of a certain professional code of conduct in the workplace - and there should be well established rules and a means of redress when boundaries are crossed. But I have to wonder - will men now be afraid to put a comforting arm around an upset woman? Provide a compliment on how she looks?

It's a bit of a Pandora's box...that needed to be opened, because women were silenced and shamed for so long...yet, there is more than we can handle there.

Absolutely I agree- I put the current stuff in three categories:
a) Sexual assault- that includes of course the obvious- rape- but also includes taking a 14 year old's hand and putting it on your johnson.
b) Sexual intimidation- that is usually a power thing- using your power or authority to try to coerce or intimidate someone to have sex.
c) Sexual harrassment- that includes pursuing a woman when she does not want to be pursued- but also includes commenting about her boobs.

Grabbing her buns or forcing an unwanted kiss might apply to any of the three- but I agree not the same as rape- or sexually abusing a minor.

There is a difference- a big difference.

 

[Coyote]

We've reached a rather dangerous tipping point...and I don't know where it will go or how we should handle it.

It's a fact that women endure a great deal of harrassment from men. Over Thanksgiving, my mother told me some of what she had to put up with as a professional woman scientists in a male dominated profession. I'm sure that is not unique.

It seems that Weinstein finally provided the tipping point for women to speak up about it. That for once they can without having their reputations trashed as sluts.

But it also seems that there is a rush - people are being fired rapidly, based on accusation, with little recourse to a defense. It's possible we simply don't hear the whole story...I'm not so sure about this rush to judgement.

I also think that people are lumping everything into the "sexual assault" category when it might not be.

There is a difference between a wolf whistle on the street corner and grabbing a woman's bum. There is a difference between grabbing a woman's bum and forceably kissing her. And there is a difference between forceably kissing her and raping her. They shouldn't all be treated the same.

There is the expectation of a certain professional code of conduct in the workplace - and there should be well established rules and a means of redress when boundaries are crossed. But I have to wonder - will men now be afraid to put a comforting arm around an upset woman? Provide a compliment on how she looks?

It's a bit of a Pandora's box...that needed to be opened, because women were silenced and shamed for so long...yet, there is more than we can handle there.

Absolutely I agree- I put the current stuff in three categories:
a) Sexual assault- that includes of course the obvious- rape- but also includes taking a 14 year old's hand and putting it on your johnson.
b) Sexual intimidation- that is usually a power thing- using your power or authority to try to coerce or intimidate someone to have sex.
c) Sexual harrassment- that includes pursuing a woman when she does not want to be pursued- but also includes commenting about her boobs.

Grabbing her buns or forcing an unwanted kiss might apply to any of the three- but I agree not the same as rape- or sexually abusing a minor.

There is a difference- a big difference.

When the person is a minor - I wouldn't even put it into any of those categories - it's a different crime entirely. A minor can not consent.

Those are good distinctions though.

 

[MindWars]

We've reached a rather dangerous tipping point...and I don't know where it will go or how we should handle it.

It's a fact that women endure a great deal of harrassment from men. Over Thanksgiving, my mother told me some of what she had to put up with as a professional woman scientists in a male dominated profession. I'm sure that is not unique.

It seems that Weinstein finally provided the tipping point for women to speak up about it. That for once they can without having their reputations trashed as sluts.

But it also seems that there is a rush - people are being fired rapidly, based on accusation, with little recourse to a defense. It's possible we simply don't hear the whole story...I'm not so sure about this rush to judgement.

I also think that people are lumping everything into the "sexual assault" category when it might not be.

There is a difference between a wolf whistle on the street corner and grabbing a woman's bum. There is a difference between grabbing a woman's bum and forceably kissing her. And there is a difference between forceably kissing her and raping her. They shouldn't all be treated the same.

There is the expectation of a certain professional code of conduct in the workplace - and there should be well established rules and a means of redress when boundaries are crossed. But I have to wonder - will men now be afraid to put a comforting arm around an upset woman? Provide a compliment on how she looks?

It's a bit of a Pandora's box...that needed to be opened, because women were silenced and shamed for so long...yet, there is more than we can handle there.

I think men will become fearful of working with or around women in general.
I think this is going to push men into " not liking women" if this keeps up who knows that may be the feminist goal.

Imagine the poor military and what those men will have to endure when there are no witnesses on a deployment.

probably...What else will happen is men will become less likely to hire females out of fear of having their lives ruined. Heck, maybe some will demand not to work with them.

But women have had to endure harrassment and assault in their professions in order to be able to work in those professions. That is not right either.

That's true, problem is for today wth do they even consider to be sexual har. a man looking at them too long, ogling them, or about saying you are pretty . Radical feminist have and are going over the top teaching hate towards men.

Have you ever watched the video I've posted where little girls drop the F bomb and the little girls are basically man hating and bashing.



Seriously watch it , it's not that long and these girls are being taught to hate men if you really listen to what they're saying.

 

[Syriusly]

We've reached a rather dangerous tipping point...and I don't know where it will go or how we should handle it.

It's a fact that women endure a great deal of harrassment from men. Over Thanksgiving, my mother told me some of what she had to put up with as a professional woman scientists in a male dominated profession. I'm sure that is not unique.

It seems that Weinstein finally provided the tipping point for women to speak up about it. That for once they can without having their reputations trashed as sluts.

But it also seems that there is a rush - people are being fired rapidly, based on accusation, with little recourse to a defense. It's possible we simply don't hear the whole story...I'm not so sure about this rush to judgement.

I also think that people are lumping everything into the "sexual assault" category when it might not be.

There is a difference between a wolf whistle on the street corner and grabbing a woman's bum. There is a difference between grabbing a woman's bum and forceably kissing her. And there is a difference between forceably kissing her and raping her. They shouldn't all be treated the same.

There is the expectation of a certain professional code of conduct in the workplace - and there should be well established rules and a means of redress when boundaries are crossed. But I have to wonder - will men now be afraid to put a comforting arm around an upset woman? Provide a compliment on how she looks?

It's a bit of a Pandora's box...that needed to be opened, because women were silenced and shamed for so long...yet, there is more than we can handle there.

I think men will become fearful of working with or around women in general.
I think this is going to push men into " not liking women" if this keeps up who knows that may be the feminist goal.

Imagine the poor military and what those men will have to endure when there are no witnesses on a deployment.

As a man- I don't have a concern at all about this.

Its not hard to be a sexist jerk- really- don't answer the door of your hotel room naked- don't masturbate in front of your female coworker- don't grab her boobs.

Don't ask your secretary out for a date. Don't suggest your staff member might get a promotion if they have sex with you. Don't show your coworkers porn at work.

This is not rocket science.