Should AZ Force Gay People To Promote Christian Ideals Against Homosexuality?

[hadit]

Consider what you said. "You don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry". That can only mean that you are in favor of forcing a gay billboard owner to put up Bible verses condemning homosexuality if someone wants to rent the space to say it.

That would be an interesting legal question.

Would the bill board operator(doesn't matter whether he is gay or straight- Christian or atheist) be refusing to do business because of the religious content? That would be just as illegal as a bill board operator refusing to post quotes from the Koran because of their religious content?

Or is it because the bill board operator disagrees with the actual content of the message for non-religious reason?
Some examples:
As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise."
Or
If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Rejected for because of religion? Or rejected because of the advocacy of violence?

Feel free to go find that gay bill board operator and test the law.

It doesn't have to be anything about violence. There are Bible verses that simply condemn homosexuality. In this case the customer would want to put them up. Does the billboard operator have the right to refuse?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Feel free to post that quote and I will tell you.

Romans 1:26,27.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

According to you, if a man rapes a woman, he has to marry her and they can never be divorced.
Do you realize how many women Donald Trump would have to marry if he married all the women he assaulted?
Besides, the fact you think a rape victim should be forced to marry the man who raped her means you are one sick fu............

Your mind reading is incredibly weak. Here's a hint. I'm not Jewish. A little presumptuous to assume I am, wouldn't you think?

 

[xotoxi]

No one who owns a company open to the public should be forced to provide services to those with whom they disagree.

At the same time, the government should not be forced to give these people business licenses.

If these people do not want to provide services to gays, then they have the option to close their business.

So you want to use that same hammer on gays who refuse to print billboards for Christians that say "Homosexuality is a sin unto God!" ?

Because if you want an exception in that case, that means you want the state to prefer one set of values (faith edicts) over another. And that is Constitutionally-disallowed.

Your example is poor.

If one said to a baker: "is it personally objectionable for you to bake a cake?" the answer would be "NO" There is no difference between baking a cake for straights, gays, blacks, whites, or to be launched by a catapult at a wall.

If one said to a graphic designer: "is it personally objectionable to make a sign saying 'Homosexuality is a sin'?" the answer may be yet, regardless of who is asking them to do it.

It’s not just any cake, it’s a specially customized cake for a wedding ceremony, that’s WAY different than saying hey I want a chocolate ice cream cake, or a muffin, or whatever. If the KKK had a ceremony where they pay a homeless black guy a couple hundred if he lets them pie him in the face, and they went to a black baker who knew about this ceremony, and asked for a run of the mill pie, shouldn’t that Baker have a right to say hell no.

It’s not whether or not the purchaser finds if objectionable, it’s the seller. I don’t find pork objectionable, but there could be a Muslim or Jewish butcher who does, and doesn’t want to slaughter a pig, shouldnt they be able to say no, I have a religious problem with this, even though I’m not eating it, you’re still asking me to slaughter a pig which goes against my religious teachings.

Since when are wedding cakes personally customized?

I don't really think that the KKK would have a pie specially baked by a baker for the event you are proposing. They would buy one off the shelf. Or they would have one of their bitches bake it.

When would a Muslim or Jewish butcher have pork products in their establishment? And when would a butcher allow meat from outside their establishment be brought in to be butchered?

Your examples are weak and unrealistic.

And they’re also hypos, there is still a principle at play that (since you cannot answer the hypo), I have to assume you want to apply the principle differently when it does not fit your world view....which would mean you lack principle, you operate on interests. A hypo is supposed to be a hypothetical situation (for lack of a better term). It’s there to make you think.

And if I killed a pig, it is not at all uncommon that someone would take it to a butcher...happens ALL THE TIME.

Okay. Let's address your "hypos".

The gay billboard designer can refuse to print the words "Homosexuality is a sin" if he chooses, but he cannot completely refuse service and instead should offer an alternative to the customer.

The homophobic baker can refuse to print words on the cake which he is against, and can even refuse to put a cake topper with two men, but he cannot completely refuse service, and should make a nice cake.

That's my opinion on the matter.

 

[hadit]

Consider what you said. "You don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry". That can only mean that you are in favor of forcing a gay billboard owner to put up Bible verses condemning homosexuality if someone wants to rent the space to say it.

That would be an interesting legal question.

Would the bill board operator(doesn't matter whether he is gay or straight- Christian or atheist) be refusing to do business because of the religious content? That would be just as illegal as a bill board operator refusing to post quotes from the Koran because of their religious content?

Or is it because the bill board operator disagrees with the actual content of the message for non-religious reason?
Some examples:
As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise."
Or
If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Rejected for because of religion? Or rejected because of the advocacy of violence?

Feel free to go find that gay bill board operator and test the law.

It doesn't have to be anything about violence. There are Bible verses that simply condemn homosexuality. In this case the customer would want to put them up. Does the billboard operator have the right to refuse?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Feel free to post that quote and I will tell you.

Romans 1:26,27.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Why would anyone object to a wholesome story of how God drove people to lust after others?

But to answer your question directly- again- it depends.

If the Billboard operator refused to put up anything that refers to sex or sex acts on their billboard- then there is no foul- no violation of the PA laws if he refuses this post from the New Testament.

If the Billboard operator refuses it because he objects to the religious content of the message- then he runs afoul of the PA laws.

By the way- lets look at more of that verse- shall we?

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

[so some people didn't glorify god, and looked at images of birds and animals and people}

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

[So in punishment, God had them filled full of lust}


26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

[So God punished men by inflaming them with lust for other men- and committing shameful acts with other men]

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

.....They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;.....

Yes- so God punished those who didn't worship him by leading them to gay sex- and disobeying their parents- and gossiping.

Because- God- and I supposed Christians by extension- know that those who do such things deserve death.

Do you believe that gossipers deserve death? What about those who disobey their parents?

As it calls for here in Romans?

Note, of course, that nowhere are Christians called to kill disbelievers. But hey, don't let that slow you down.

 

[xotoxi]

interesting argument. Show a clear lack of understanding of the law but whatever.

Consider what you said. "You don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry". That can only mean that you are in favor of forcing a gay billboard owner to put up Bible verses condemning homosexuality if someone wants to rent the space to say it.

If that some one is a religious group or person which is protected by PA laws.

Not talking about the legal aspects, I'm talking about the moral and ethical aspects. If a Christian business owner can be forced to write celebratory messages about homosexuality on a cake, should a gay business owner be forced to post Bible verses condemning homosexuality? It's an easy yes or no question.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are people being asked to write pro-homosexual messages on the cake, or are they just being asked to bake the cake?

The two are not exclusive.

Do these bakers realize that when they bake a cake for a heterosexual wedding, there is a better chance than not that their cake is going to be consumed by several gays?

 

[hadit]

That sounds like one vote for forcing a gay billboard owner to post Bible verses that condemn homosexuality.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

interesting argument. Show a clear lack of understanding of the law but whatever.

Consider what you said. "You don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry". That can only mean that you are in favor of forcing a gay billboard owner to put up Bible verses condemning homosexuality if someone wants to rent the space to say it.

That would be an interesting legal question.

Would the bill board operator(doesn't matter whether he is gay or straight- Christian or atheist) be refusing to do business because of the religious content? That would be just as illegal as a bill board operator refusing to post quotes from the Koran because of their religious content?

Or is it because the bill board operator disagrees with the actual content of the message for non-religious reason?
Some examples:
As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise."
Or
If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Rejected for because of religion? Or rejected because of the advocacy of violence?

Feel free to go find that gay bill board operator and test the law.

It doesn't have to be anything about violence. There are Bible verses that simply condemn homosexuality. In this case the customer would want to put them up. Does the billboard operator have the right to refuse?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought you were going to post a quote from the Bible that condemns homosexuality?

I did. Do you take from that passage that God celebrates it?

 

[hadit]

That sounds like one vote for forcing a gay billboard owner to post Bible verses that condemn homosexuality.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

interesting argument. Show a clear lack of understanding of the law but whatever.

Consider what you said. "You don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry". That can only mean that you are in favor of forcing a gay billboard owner to put up Bible verses condemning homosexuality if someone wants to rent the space to say it.

You were already answered. I'm not going to belabor your absurd point.

I'm just working with what you gave me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No. You aren't.

I quoted from your post. Perhaps you didn't mean what you wrote.

 

[hadit]

Consider what you said. "You don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry". That can only mean that you are in favor of forcing a gay billboard owner to put up Bible verses condemning homosexuality if someone wants to rent the space to say it.

If that some one is a religious group or person which is protected by PA laws.

Not talking about the legal aspects, I'm talking about the moral and ethical aspects. If a Christian business owner can be forced to write celebratory messages about homosexuality on a cake, should a gay business owner be forced to post Bible verses condemning homosexuality? It's an easy yes or no question.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are people being asked to write pro-homosexual messages on the cake, or are they just being asked to bake the cake?

The two are not exclusive.

Do these bakers realize that when they bake a cake for a heterosexual wedding, there is a better chance than not that their cake is going to be consumed by several gays?

Why ask me? I'm not a baker.

 

[xotoxi]

If that some one is a religious group or person which is protected by PA laws.

Not talking about the legal aspects, I'm talking about the moral and ethical aspects. If a Christian business owner can be forced to write celebratory messages about homosexuality on a cake, should a gay business owner be forced to post Bible verses condemning homosexuality? It's an easy yes or no question.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are people being asked to write pro-homosexual messages on the cake, or are they just being asked to bake the cake?

The two are not exclusive.

Do these bakers realize that when they bake a cake for a heterosexual wedding, there is a better chance than not that their cake is going to be consumed by several gays?

Why ask me? I'm not a baker.

Then how do you know that writing message on a cake and baking a cake are not exclusive.

Are you a baker or not?

 

[Syriusly]

Arizona has laws that prevent discrimination against Christians(for their faith) and gays(for their sexual orientation)

Why do you have a problem with that?

If you require someone to defy their faith in order to accommodate another person's behaviors, then you have set one set of edicts above another in law. That isn't allowed in American law. And yes, I do have a problem with that.

So you have a problem with Arizona's law that prevent discrimination against Christians for their faith.

Fascinating.

So do you have a problem with deportation laws?

Great straw man!

a) What does that have to do with laws that prevent discrimination against Christians?
b) What deportation laws- specifically?

You’re arguing on what the law states. My position is not in what it states but whether or not the law is a good law, and even the policy of executing the law. That’s not a strawman, how can asking what your views are of a different law, to illustrate my point that I disagree with the law (so stop hiding behind it), be a strawman? It’s not a strawman, I’m not mistating your point to make it a weaker position, I didn’t even bring up your point...if anything you could argue that it’s a red herring, it’s not, maybe false equivalency, it’s also not that since my point is not arguing what is the law, but whether or not I agree with it (and if you don’t like deportation laws, any of them) then I have you where I want you.

And we’ll say deporting a family that came here illegally, as if it matters, Im sure you have some objection to the law/policy.

Definition Straw man argument

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".

Yep- you want to derail the topic by bringing up something I haven't discussed- and am not discussing.

You disagree with public accommodation laws? Fine- then push to have them changed. You can start with the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

But meantime the law applies to Christians just as it applies to everyone else.

And yes- there are laws i disagree with. Which has nothing to do with public accommodation laws.

 

[Syriusly]

No one who owns a company open to the public should be forced to provide services to those with whom they disagree.

At the same time, the government should not be forced to give these people business licenses.

If these people do not want to provide services to gays, then they have the option to close their business.

So you want to use that same hammer on gays who refuse to print billboards for Christians that say "Homosexuality is a sin unto God!" ?

Because if you want an exception in that case, that means you want the state to prefer one set of values (faith edicts) over another. And that is Constitutionally-disallowed.

Your example is poor.

If one said to a baker: "is it personally objectionable for you to bake a cake?" the answer would be "NO" There is no difference between baking a cake for straights, gays, blacks, whites, or to be launched by a catapult at a wall.

If one said to a graphic designer: "is it personally objectionable to make a sign saying 'Homosexuality is a sin'?" the answer may be yet, regardless of who is asking them to do it.

It’s not just any cake, it’s a specially customized cake for a wedding ceremony, that’s WAY different than saying hey I want a chocolate ice cream cake, or a muffin, or whatever. If the KKK had a ceremony where they pay a homeless black guy a couple hundred if he lets them pie him in the face, and they went to a black baker who knew about this ceremony, and asked for a run of the mill pie, shouldn’t that Baker have a right to say hell no.

It’s not whether or not the purchaser finds if objectionable, it’s the seller. I don’t find pork objectionable, but there could be a Muslim or Jewish butcher who does, and doesn’t want to slaughter a pig, shouldnt they be able to say no, I have a religious problem with this, even though I’m not eating it, you’re still asking me to slaughter a pig which goes against my religious teachings.

A baker that sells wedding cakes can't refuse to sell them to Jews just because he has a religious problem with Jews.
A baker that doesn't sell wedding cakes can absolutely refuse to sell wedding cakes to anyone.
A butcher that doesn't butcher pigs- doesn't have any obligation to butcher pigs.

Really stupid argument has been made over and over- and its just as stupid today as it was the first time.

 

[Syriusly]

interesting argument. Show a clear lack of understanding of the law but whatever.

Consider what you said. "You don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry". That can only mean that you are in favor of forcing a gay billboard owner to put up Bible verses condemning homosexuality if someone wants to rent the space to say it.

That would be an interesting legal question.

Would the bill board operator(doesn't matter whether he is gay or straight- Christian or atheist) be refusing to do business because of the religious content? That would be just as illegal as a bill board operator refusing to post quotes from the Koran because of their religious content?

Or is it because the bill board operator disagrees with the actual content of the message for non-religious reason?
Some examples:
As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise."
Or
If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Rejected for because of religion? Or rejected because of the advocacy of violence?

Feel free to go find that gay bill board operator and test the law.

It doesn't have to be anything about violence. There are Bible verses that simply condemn homosexuality. In this case the customer would want to put them up. Does the billboard operator have the right to refuse?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Feel free to post that quote and I will tell you.

Romans 1:26,27.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Still waiting for a verse that condemns homosexuality.

You have given us a verse that has God 'gave them over to shameful lusts'- not actually condemning homosexuality at all.

 

[Syriusly]

[Q

Yeah- those Islamic Terrorists do keep telling us that the law of God is more important to them than the law. of man.

Fascinating that you believe in the same narrative.

.

Yes and Islam is not Christianity so you crap as usual is moot

Yet you and ISIS find common ground on both homosexuals and that the law of God is more important than the law of man.

And which one has commandments from God that says thou shalt not kill? Islam doesn't have that. .

Wow- I guess Christians never kill then.

Here is the thing- i compared you with ISIS- not with Muslims.

Because like ISIS- you find common ground on both homosexuals and that the law of God is more important than the law of man.

Even though the New Testament says very clearly that Christians are to obey the laws of man.

 

[Syriusly]

[Q

Yeah- those Islamic Terrorists do keep telling us that the law of God is more important to them than the law. of man.

Fascinating that you believe in the same narrative.

.

Yes and Islam is not Christianity so you crap as usual is moot

Yet you and ISIS find common ground on both homosexuals and that the law of God is more important than the law of man.

that the Bible does not promote murder but in fact commands that it shall not be done..

The Bible doesn't 'promote murder' any more than the Koran does- the Bible calls for the death of gossips- and those who disobey their parents.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

 

[Syriusly]

No one who owns a company open to the public should be forced to provide services to those with whom they disagree.

At the same time, the government should not be forced to give these people business licenses.

If these people do not want to provide services to gays, then they have the option to close their business.

So you want to use that same hammer on gays who refuse to print billboards for Christians that say "Homosexuality is a sin unto God!" ?

Because if you want an exception in that case, that means you want the state to prefer one set of values (faith edicts) over another. And that is Constitutionally-disallowed.

Your example is poor.

If one said to a baker: "is it personally objectionable for you to bake a cake?" the answer would be "NO" There is no difference between baking a cake for straights, gays, blacks, whites, or to be launched by a catapult at a wall.

If one said to a graphic designer: "is it personally objectionable to make a sign saying 'Homosexuality is a sin'?" the answer may be yet, regardless of who is asking them to do it.

It’s not just any cake, it’s a specially customized cake for a wedding ceremony, that’s WAY different than saying hey I want a chocolate ice cream cake, or a muffin, or whatever. If the KKK had a ceremony where they pay a homeless black guy a couple hundred if he lets them pie him in the face, and they went to a black baker who knew about this ceremony, and asked for a run of the mill pie, shouldn’t that Baker have a right to say hell no.

It’s not whether or not the purchaser finds if objectionable, it’s the seller. I don’t find pork objectionable, but there could be a Muslim or Jewish butcher who does, and doesn’t want to slaughter a pig, shouldnt they be able to say no, I have a religious problem with this, even though I’m not eating it, you’re still asking me to slaughter a pig which goes against my religious teachings.

Since when are wedding cakes personally customized?

I don't really think that the KKK would have a pie specially baked by a baker for the event you are proposing. They would buy one off the shelf. Or they would have one of their bitches bake it.

When would a Muslim or Jewish butcher have pork products in their establishment? And when would a butcher allow meat from outside their establishment be brought in to be butchered?

Your examples are weak and unrealistic.

And if I killed a pig, it is not at all uncommon that someone would take it to a butcher...happens ALL THE TIME.

And then you find a butcher that butchers hogs- or advertises that he will butcher all animals.

But if the butcher doesn't butcher hogs- or dogs- or bunnies- he is under no obligation to butcher them just because you bring it to him.

 

[Syriusly]

That would be an interesting legal question.

Would the bill board operator(doesn't matter whether he is gay or straight- Christian or atheist) be refusing to do business because of the religious content? That would be just as illegal as a bill board operator refusing to post quotes from the Koran because of their religious content?

Or is it because the bill board operator disagrees with the actual content of the message for non-religious reason?
Some examples:
As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise."
Or
If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Rejected for because of religion? Or rejected because of the advocacy of violence?

Feel free to go find that gay bill board operator and test the law.

It doesn't have to be anything about violence. There are Bible verses that simply condemn homosexuality. In this case the customer would want to put them up. Does the billboard operator have the right to refuse?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Feel free to post that quote and I will tell you.

Romans 1:26,27.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Why would anyone object to a wholesome story of how God drove people to lust after others?

But to answer your question directly- again- it depends.

If the Billboard operator refused to put up anything that refers to sex or sex acts on their billboard- then there is no foul- no violation of the PA laws if he refuses this post from the New Testament.

If the Billboard operator refuses it because he objects to the religious content of the message- then he runs afoul of the PA laws.

By the way- lets look at more of that verse- shall we?

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

[so some people didn't glorify god, and looked at images of birds and animals and people}

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

[So in punishment, God had them filled full of lust}


26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

[So God punished men by inflaming them with lust for other men- and committing shameful acts with other men]

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

.....They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;.....

Yes- so God punished those who didn't worship him by leading them to gay sex- and disobeying their parents- and gossiping.

Because- God- and I supposed Christians by extension- know that those who do such things deserve death.

Do you believe that gossipers deserve death? What about those who disobey their parents?

As it calls for here in Romans?

Note, of course, that nowhere are Christians called to kill disbelievers. But hey, don't let that slow you down.

Note of course that Christians are called to execute gossipers and thoee who disobey their parents.

 

[Syriusly]

interesting argument. Show a clear lack of understanding of the law but whatever.

Consider what you said. "You don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry". That can only mean that you are in favor of forcing a gay billboard owner to put up Bible verses condemning homosexuality if someone wants to rent the space to say it.

That would be an interesting legal question.

Would the bill board operator(doesn't matter whether he is gay or straight- Christian or atheist) be refusing to do business because of the religious content? That would be just as illegal as a bill board operator refusing to post quotes from the Koran because of their religious content?

Or is it because the bill board operator disagrees with the actual content of the message for non-religious reason?
Some examples:
As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise."
Or
If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Rejected for because of religion? Or rejected because of the advocacy of violence?

Feel free to go find that gay bill board operator and test the law.

It doesn't have to be anything about violence. There are Bible verses that simply condemn homosexuality. In this case the customer would want to put them up. Does the billboard operator have the right to refuse?


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I thought you were going to post a quote from the Bible that condemns homosexuality?

I did. Do you take from that passage that God celebrates it?

I see a passage that condemns Christians who don't worship God enough- and look at graven images of humans and animals.

 

[hadit]

Not talking about the legal aspects, I'm talking about the moral and ethical aspects. If a Christian business owner can be forced to write celebratory messages about homosexuality on a cake, should a gay business owner be forced to post Bible verses condemning homosexuality? It's an easy yes or no question.


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Are people being asked to write pro-homosexual messages on the cake, or are they just being asked to bake the cake?

The two are not exclusive.

Do these bakers realize that when they bake a cake for a heterosexual wedding, there is a better chance than not that their cake is going to be consumed by several gays?

Why ask me? I'm not a baker.

Then how do you know that writing message on a cake and baking a cake are not exclusive.

Are you a baker or not?

That's just common sense.

 

[hadit]

Consider what you said. "You don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry". That can only mean that you are in favor of forcing a gay billboard owner to put up Bible verses condemning homosexuality if someone wants to rent the space to say it.

That would be an interesting legal question.

Would the bill board operator(doesn't matter whether he is gay or straight- Christian or atheist) be refusing to do business because of the religious content? That would be just as illegal as a bill board operator refusing to post quotes from the Koran because of their religious content?

Or is it because the bill board operator disagrees with the actual content of the message for non-religious reason?
Some examples:
As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise."
Or
If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Rejected for because of religion? Or rejected because of the advocacy of violence?

Feel free to go find that gay bill board operator and test the law.

It doesn't have to be anything about violence. There are Bible verses that simply condemn homosexuality. In this case the customer would want to put them up. Does the billboard operator have the right to refuse?


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Feel free to post that quote and I will tell you.

Romans 1:26,27.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Still waiting for a verse that condemns homosexuality.

You have given us a verse that has God 'gave them over to shameful lusts'- not actually condemning homosexuality at all.

What else do you take from it, that He approves of something He calls shameful?

 

[hadit]

It doesn't have to be anything about violence. There are Bible verses that simply condemn homosexuality. In this case the customer would want to put them up. Does the billboard operator have the right to refuse?


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Feel free to post that quote and I will tell you.

Romans 1:26,27.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Why would anyone object to a wholesome story of how God drove people to lust after others?

But to answer your question directly- again- it depends.

If the Billboard operator refused to put up anything that refers to sex or sex acts on their billboard- then there is no foul- no violation of the PA laws if he refuses this post from the New Testament.

If the Billboard operator refuses it because he objects to the religious content of the message- then he runs afoul of the PA laws.

By the way- lets look at more of that verse- shall we?

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

[so some people didn't glorify god, and looked at images of birds and animals and people}

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

[So in punishment, God had them filled full of lust}


26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

[So God punished men by inflaming them with lust for other men- and committing shameful acts with other men]

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

.....They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;.....

Yes- so God punished those who didn't worship him by leading them to gay sex- and disobeying their parents- and gossiping.

Because- God- and I supposed Christians by extension- know that those who do such things deserve death.

Do you believe that gossipers deserve death? What about those who disobey their parents?

As it calls for here in Romans?

Note, of course, that nowhere are Christians called to kill disbelievers. But hey, don't let that slow you down.

Note of course that Christians are called to execute gossipers and thoee who disobey their parents.

No, they are not. Do you need an exhaustive dissertation on Christians and the Mosaic Law?

 

[hadit]

Consider what you said. "You don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry". That can only mean that you are in favor of forcing a gay billboard owner to put up Bible verses condemning homosexuality if someone wants to rent the space to say it.

That would be an interesting legal question.

Would the bill board operator(doesn't matter whether he is gay or straight- Christian or atheist) be refusing to do business because of the religious content? That would be just as illegal as a bill board operator refusing to post quotes from the Koran because of their religious content?

Or is it because the bill board operator disagrees with the actual content of the message for non-religious reason?
Some examples:
As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise."
Or
If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Rejected for because of religion? Or rejected because of the advocacy of violence?

Feel free to go find that gay bill board operator and test the law.

It doesn't have to be anything about violence. There are Bible verses that simply condemn homosexuality. In this case the customer would want to put them up. Does the billboard operator have the right to refuse?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought you were going to post a quote from the Bible that condemns homosexuality?

I did. Do you take from that passage that God celebrates it?

I see a passage that condemns Christians who don't worship God enough- and look at graven images of humans and animals.

Those are not Christians that God is condemning.