Should AZ Force Gay People To Promote Christian Ideals Against Homosexuality?

[jillian]

who says so-called christians have to "promote"?

you don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry.

this has been determined already...

When Christians are told they must not participate in expanding or enabling the spread of homosexuality as a social value (see Jude 1 New Testament) under pain of eternal damnation for failure to adhere....forcing them to participate in any way in a "gay wedding" (marriage = the epitome of the network of social values), then they are de facto promoting that value against their will and faith.

So how did you vote in the poll above if you feel no one can exclude another group in their business sales? Did you vote "yes" or "no" on whether gays should be legally forced to print a billboard that says "homosexuality is a sin unto God" for a Christian who walked through their door? Just curious.

You understand that no state may pass a law that elevates one set of moral edicts over another, yes? That's legally forbidden.

Well muslims and Orthodox Jews aren't allowed to handle pork. Guess what. They can't go work for a butcher and demand the butcher stop selling pork. That's life.

If their beliefs prohibit them from doing a job they shouldn't do it.

Although I'm still not sure how writing Congratulations Steve and Andrew on a cake is doing anything more than writing Congratulations Steve and Andrew on the cake.

But feel free to find another line of work.

You do realize this has been fully litigated already and now it's time for the religious zealots to stop throwing temper tantrums.

 

[hadit]

I offer the legal precedent here: Court: Phoenix wedding invitation designers must serve LGBT customers

Given: Gay is behavioral. Google "Anne Heche" for details.. Or for more extensive arguments (with over 300 peer-reviewed corroborating studies referenced at the end) this: "Conditioning and Sexual BEHAVIOR, a Review"
James G. Pfaus,Tod E. Kippin, and Soraya Centeno
Center for Studies in Behavioral Neurobiology, Department of Psychology, Concordia University, 1455 deMaisonneuve Bldg. W., Montreal, Quebec, H3G 1M8 Canada
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.322.9763&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Now, should the State of Arizona which so recently announced Christians must promote the behaviors of homosexuals, also force homosexuals to promote the behaviors of Christians? The question is one of fairness. Is it fair to force a Christian to abandon their 1st Amendment rights, while in the same state allowing gays to pick and choose when to promote values in direct opposition to their own?

Should for instance, a gay graphic designer be forced against his will and beliefs to print a billboard for a busy highway that reads: "Homosexuality is a sin unto God!" for Christian customers. ? If he provides a service to the general public? Yes or no. Vote in the poll.

who says so-called christians have to "promote"?

you don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry.

this has been determined already.

bur you can simmer in your own hate-filled insanity as long as you like... just leave normal people alone while you do it.

That sounds like one vote for forcing a gay billboard owner to post Bible verses that condemn homosexuality.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

interesting argument. Show a clear lack of understanding of the law but whatever.

Consider what you said. "You don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry". That can only mean that you are in favor of forcing a gay billboard owner to put up Bible verses condemning homosexuality if someone wants to rent the space to say it.

 

[Syriusly]

Arizona has laws that prevent discrimination against Christians(for their faith) and gays(for their sexual orientation)

Why do you have a problem with that?

If you require someone to defy their faith in order to accommodate another person's behaviors, then you have set one set of edicts above another in law. That isn't allowed in American law. And yes, I do have a problem with that.

So you have a problem with Arizona's law that prevent discrimination against Christians for their faith.

Fascinating.

So do you have a problem with deportation laws?

^^ Notices Syriusly didn't answer sakinago's question...

Notices I hadn't read sakinago's post.

LOL

 

[Syriusly]

Arizona has laws that prevent discrimination against Christians(for their faith) and gays(for their sexual orientation)

Why do you have a problem with that?

If you require someone to defy their faith in order to accommodate another person's behaviors, then you have set one set of edicts above another in law. That isn't allowed in American law. And yes, I do have a problem with that.

So you have a problem with Arizona's law that prevent discrimination against Christians for their faith.

Fascinating.

So do you have a problem with deportation laws?

Great straw man!

a) What does that have to do with laws that prevent discrimination against Christians?
b) What deportation laws- specifically?

 

[Syriusly]

I stated: Religion is abnormal and deviant crap. That would cover everything you wrote.

No one religion that claims sovereign rights over and above anyone's personal rights and is willing to take it by violence and force and teaches its followers to do so is abnormal and deviant and that religion is Islam.

.

Sounds like the Hillsborough Baptist Church

Peddle your crap with someone else as I ain't buying. You are comparing some lawyers who operate as a non-profit in the the guise of being a church under an assumed name other than Christ's name that puts out a lot of propaganda with a whole class of people whose religious book and actions actually calls for complete control and submission plus kills other people for not complying with their belief systems. That is why you really can't be taken serious to anyone with half a brain that is able to think. The violent take it by force and that is not what Christianity or Judaism is all about but it fits Islam to a tee.

Both practice hate.

No they don't. Your sins are your own in both Christianity and Judaism but you take that as hate when another wants no part of you and your personal demons. A big difference there that you and the others refuse to recognize..

You have a GOP candidate for Senate who wants to make homosexuality illegal- because of his Christians faith.

There is a big difference- gays in America are not advocating making Christianity illegal.

 

[Syriusly]

who says so-called christians have to "promote"?

you don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry.

this has been determined already...

When Christians are told they must not participate in expanding or enabling the spread of homosexuality as a social value (see Jude 1 New Testament) .

Except Christians are not told any such thing in Jude 1- you are just lying again.

Christians are told that they are to obey the law- which you always conveniently forget.

Hell according to Jesus, Donald Trump is an adulterer- and yet Christians have no problem with his marriage.

 

[RodISHI]

No one religion that claims sovereign rights over and above anyone's personal rights and is willing to take it by violence and force and teaches its followers to do so is abnormal and deviant and that religion is Islam.

.

Sounds like the Hillsborough Baptist Church

Peddle your crap with someone else as I ain't buying. You are comparing some lawyers who operate as a non-profit in the the guise of being a church under an assumed name other than Christ's name that puts out a lot of propaganda with a whole class of people whose religious book and actions actually calls for complete control and submission plus kills other people for not complying with their belief systems. That is why you really can't be taken serious to anyone with half a brain that is able to think. The violent take it by force and that is not what Christianity or Judaism is all about but it fits Islam to a tee.

Both practice hate.

No they don't. Your sins are your own in both Christianity and Judaism but you take that as hate when another wants no part of you and your personal demons. A big difference there that you and the others refuse to recognize..

You have a GOP candidate for Senate who wants to make homosexuality illegal- because of his Christians faith.

There is a big difference- gays in America are not advocating making Christianity illegal.

That depends on which gays and atheist you are talking to. Homosexuality used to be illegal and if people realize a threat against their children, grandchildren, great grands, etc. and if this big push keeps going to take out small business who refuse to cater to a few gays the people will eventually lash out demanding retribution.

 

[RodISHI]

The law of God is more important to many people these days verses the fascist laws that a few have pressed on the people but hey its your choice to keep pushing if that is what y'all want.

 

[Syriusly]

I offer the legal precedent here: Court: Phoenix wedding invitation designers must serve LGBT customers

Given: Gay is behavioral. Google "Anne Heche" for details.. Or for more extensive arguments (with over 300 peer-reviewed corroborating studies referenced at the end) this: "Conditioning and Sexual BEHAVIOR, a Review"
James G. Pfaus,Tod E. Kippin, and Soraya Centeno
Center for Studies in Behavioral Neurobiology, Department of Psychology, Concordia University, 1455 deMaisonneuve Bldg. W., Montreal, Quebec, H3G 1M8 Canada
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.322.9763&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Now, should the State of Arizona which so recently announced Christians must promote the behaviors of homosexuals, also force homosexuals to promote the behaviors of Christians? The question is one of fairness. Is it fair to force a Christian to abandon their 1st Amendment rights, while in the same state allowing gays to pick and choose when to promote values in direct opposition to their own?

Should for instance, a gay graphic designer be forced against his will and beliefs to print a billboard for a busy highway that reads: "Homosexuality is a sin unto God!" for Christian customers. ? If he provides a service to the general public? Yes or no. Vote in the poll.

who says so-called christians have to "promote"?

you don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry.

this has been determined already.

bur you can simmer in your own hate-filled insanity as long as you like... just leave normal people alone while you do it.

That sounds like one vote for forcing a gay billboard owner to post Bible verses that condemn homosexuality.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

interesting argument. Show a clear lack of understanding of the law but whatever.

Consider what you said. "You don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry". That can only mean that you are in favor of forcing a gay billboard owner to put up Bible verses condemning homosexuality if someone wants to rent the space to say it.

That would be an interesting legal question.

Would the bill board operator(doesn't matter whether he is gay or straight- Christian or atheist) be refusing to do business because of the religious content? That would be just as illegal as a bill board operator refusing to post quotes from the Koran because of their religious content?

Or is it because the bill board operator disagrees with the actual content of the message for non-religious reason?
Some examples:
As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise."
Or
If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Rejected for because of religion? Or rejected because of the advocacy of violence?

Feel free to go find that gay bill board operator and test the law.

 

[Syriusly]

.

Sounds like the Hillsborough Baptist Church

Peddle your crap with someone else as I ain't buying. You are comparing some lawyers who operate as a non-profit in the the guise of being a church under an assumed name other than Christ's name that puts out a lot of propaganda with a whole class of people whose religious book and actions actually calls for complete control and submission plus kills other people for not complying with their belief systems. That is why you really can't be taken serious to anyone with half a brain that is able to think. The violent take it by force and that is not what Christianity or Judaism is all about but it fits Islam to a tee.

Both practice hate.

No they don't. Your sins are your own in both Christianity and Judaism but you take that as hate when another wants no part of you and your personal demons. A big difference there that you and the others refuse to recognize..

You have a GOP candidate for Senate who wants to make homosexuality illegal- because of his Christians faith.

There is a big difference- gays in America are not advocating making Christianity illegal.

That depends on which gays and atheist you are talking to. Homosexuality used to be illegal and if people realize a threat against their children, grandchildren, great grands, etc. and if this big push keeps going to take out small business who refuse to cater to a few gays the people will eventually lash out demanding retribution.

Feel free to show me any gay or atheist candidate for Senate who is telling people that Christian conduct should be illegal- like the darling of the Radical Right- Roy Moore- has done.

Yes- homosexuality did use to be illegal - which makes your pathetic narrative of the gays being the ones promoting hate so stupid- you Christians passed laws to put gays in jail.

And you are stupid enough to believe that if Christians have to follow the same laws as everyone else- 'the people will eventually lash out demanding retribution'.

 

[Syriusly]

The law of God is more important to many people these days verses the fascist laws that a few have pressed on the people but hey its your choice to keep pushing if that is what y'all want.

Yeah- those Islamic Terrorists do keep telling us that the law of God is more important to them than the law. of man.

Fascinating that you believe in the same narrative.

 

[hadit]

I offer the legal precedent here: Court: Phoenix wedding invitation designers must serve LGBT customers

Given: Gay is behavioral. Google "Anne Heche" for details.. Or for more extensive arguments (with over 300 peer-reviewed corroborating studies referenced at the end) this: "Conditioning and Sexual BEHAVIOR, a Review"
James G. Pfaus,Tod E. Kippin, and Soraya Centeno
Center for Studies in Behavioral Neurobiology, Department of Psychology, Concordia University, 1455 deMaisonneuve Bldg. W., Montreal, Quebec, H3G 1M8 Canada
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.322.9763&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Now, should the State of Arizona which so recently announced Christians must promote the behaviors of homosexuals, also force homosexuals to promote the behaviors of Christians? The question is one of fairness. Is it fair to force a Christian to abandon their 1st Amendment rights, while in the same state allowing gays to pick and choose when to promote values in direct opposition to their own?

Should for instance, a gay graphic designer be forced against his will and beliefs to print a billboard for a busy highway that reads: "Homosexuality is a sin unto God!" for Christian customers. ? If he provides a service to the general public? Yes or no. Vote in the poll.

who says so-called christians have to "promote"?

you don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry.

this has been determined already.

bur you can simmer in your own hate-filled insanity as long as you like... just leave normal people alone while you do it.

That sounds like one vote for forcing a gay billboard owner to post Bible verses that condemn homosexuality.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

interesting argument. Show a clear lack of understanding of the law but whatever.

Consider what you said. "You don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry". That can only mean that you are in favor of forcing a gay billboard owner to put up Bible verses condemning homosexuality if someone wants to rent the space to say it.

That would be an interesting legal question.

Would the bill board operator(doesn't matter whether he is gay or straight- Christian or atheist) be refusing to do business because of the religious content? That would be just as illegal as a bill board operator refusing to post quotes from the Koran because of their religious content?

Or is it because the bill board operator disagrees with the actual content of the message for non-religious reason?
Some examples:
As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise."
Or
If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Rejected for because of religion? Or rejected because of the advocacy of violence?

Feel free to go find that gay bill board operator and test the law.

It doesn't have to be anything about violence. There are Bible verses that simply condemn homosexuality. In this case the customer would want to put them up. Does the billboard operator have the right to refuse?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Syriusly]

who says so-called christians have to "promote"?

you don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry.

this has been determined already.

bur you can simmer in your own hate-filled insanity as long as you like... just leave normal people alone while you do it.

That sounds like one vote for forcing a gay billboard owner to post Bible verses that condemn homosexuality.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

interesting argument. Show a clear lack of understanding of the law but whatever.

Consider what you said. "You don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry". That can only mean that you are in favor of forcing a gay billboard owner to put up Bible verses condemning homosexuality if someone wants to rent the space to say it.

That would be an interesting legal question.

Would the bill board operator(doesn't matter whether he is gay or straight- Christian or atheist) be refusing to do business because of the religious content? That would be just as illegal as a bill board operator refusing to post quotes from the Koran because of their religious content?

Or is it because the bill board operator disagrees with the actual content of the message for non-religious reason?
Some examples:
As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise."
Or
If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Rejected for because of religion? Or rejected because of the advocacy of violence?

Feel free to go find that gay bill board operator and test the law.

It doesn't have to be anything about violence. There are Bible verses that simply condemn homosexuality. In this case the customer would want to put them up. Does the billboard operator have the right to refuse?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Feel free to post that quote and I will tell you.

 

[xotoxi]

No one who owns a company open to the public should be forced to provide services to those with whom they disagree.

At the same time, the government should not be forced to give these people business licenses.

If these people do not want to provide services to gays, then they have the option to close their business.

 

[RodISHI]

Feel free to show me any gay or atheist candidate for Senate who is telling people that Christian conduct should be illegal- like the darling of the Radical Right- Roy Moore- has done.

Yes- homosexuality did use to be illegal - which makes your pathetic narrative of the gays being the ones promoting hate so stupid- you Christians passed laws to put gays in jail.

And you are stupid enough to believe that if Christians have to follow the same laws as everyone else- 'the people will eventually lash out demanding retribution'.

I go by a legislators actions not by what they do not say. Your equating hatred with refusal to partake is something you will have to overcome as the majority are ultimately not going to partake in what you are pushing. Gays that break the law just like anyone else who breaks the law. I could go back through post on this board where gays or their supporters have said all sorts of crazy crap about me or have made false claims against me. Your labeling days and propaganda pushing for everyone being force to accept your personal problems as their own are about to come to an end.

Yeah- those Islamic Terrorists do keep telling us that the law of God is more important to them than the law. of man.

Fascinating that you believe in the same narrative.

.

Yes and Islam is not Christianity so you crap as usual is moot

 

[Silhouette]

No one who owns a company open to the public should be forced to provide services to those with whom they disagree.

At the same time, the government should not be forced to give these people business licenses.

If these people do not want to provide services to gays, then they have the option to close their business.

So you want to use that same hammer on gays who refuse to print billboards for Christians that say "Homosexuality is a sin unto God!" ?

Because if you want an exception in that case, that means you want the state to prefer one set of values (faith edicts) over another. And that is Constitutionally-disallowed.

 

[jillian]

I offer the legal precedent here: Court: Phoenix wedding invitation designers must serve LGBT customers

Given: Gay is behavioral. Google "Anne Heche" for details.. Or for more extensive arguments (with over 300 peer-reviewed corroborating studies referenced at the end) this: "Conditioning and Sexual BEHAVIOR, a Review"
James G. Pfaus,Tod E. Kippin, and Soraya Centeno
Center for Studies in Behavioral Neurobiology, Department of Psychology, Concordia University, 1455 deMaisonneuve Bldg. W., Montreal, Quebec, H3G 1M8 Canada
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.322.9763&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Now, should the State of Arizona which so recently announced Christians must promote the behaviors of homosexuals, also force homosexuals to promote the behaviors of Christians? The question is one of fairness. Is it fair to force a Christian to abandon their 1st Amendment rights, while in the same state allowing gays to pick and choose when to promote values in direct opposition to their own?

Should for instance, a gay graphic designer be forced against his will and beliefs to print a billboard for a busy highway that reads: "Homosexuality is a sin unto God!" for Christian customers. ? If he provides a service to the general public? Yes or no. Vote in the poll.

who says so-called christians have to "promote"?

you don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry.

this has been determined already.

bur you can simmer in your own hate-filled insanity as long as you like... just leave normal people alone while you do it.

That sounds like one vote for forcing a gay billboard owner to post Bible verses that condemn homosexuality.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

interesting argument. Show a clear lack of understanding of the law but whatever.

Consider what you said. "You don't get to run a business open to the public and exclude a group because of your bigotry". That can only mean that you are in favor of forcing a gay billboard owner to put up Bible verses condemning homosexuality if someone wants to rent the space to say it.

You were already answered. I'm not going to belabor your absurd point.

 

[Montrovant]

No one who owns a company open to the public should be forced to provide services to those with whom they disagree.

At the same time, the government should not be forced to give these people business licenses.

If these people do not want to provide services to gays, then they have the option to close their business.

So you want to use that same hammer on gays who refuse to print billboards for Christians that say "Homosexuality is a sin unto God!" ?

Because if you want an exception in that case, that means you want the state to prefer one set of values (faith edicts) over another. And that is Constitutionally-disallowed.

Are you still trying to argue that homosexuality is a religion, Silly?

 

[xotoxi]

No one who owns a company open to the public should be forced to provide services to those with whom they disagree.

At the same time, the government should not be forced to give these people business licenses.

If these people do not want to provide services to gays, then they have the option to close their business.

So you want to use that same hammer on gays who refuse to print billboards for Christians that say "Homosexuality is a sin unto God!" ?

Because if you want an exception in that case, that means you want the state to prefer one set of values (faith edicts) over another. And that is Constitutionally-disallowed.

Your example is poor.

If one said to a baker: "is it personally objectionable for you to bake a cake?" the answer would be "NO" There is no difference between baking a cake for straights, gays, blacks, whites, or to be launched by a catapult at a wall.

If one said to a graphic designer: "is it personally objectionable to make a sign saying 'Homosexuality is a sin'?" the answer may be yet, regardless of who is asking them to do it.

 

[sakinago]

Arizona has laws that prevent discrimination against Christians(for their faith) and gays(for their sexual orientation)

Why do you have a problem with that?

If you require someone to defy their faith in order to accommodate another person's behaviors, then you have set one set of edicts above another in law. That isn't allowed in American law. And yes, I do have a problem with that.

So you have a problem with Arizona's law that prevent discrimination against Christians for their faith.

Fascinating.

So do you have a problem with deportation laws?

Great straw man!

a) What does that have to do with laws that prevent discrimination against Christians?
b) What deportation laws- specifically?

You’re arguing on what the law states. My position is not in what it states but whether or not the law is a good law, and even the policy of executing the law. That’s not a strawman, how can asking what your views are of a different law, to illustrate my point that I disagree with the law (so stop hiding behind it), be a strawman? It’s not a strawman, I’m not mistating your point to make it a weaker position, I didn’t even bring up your point...if anything you could argue that it’s a red herring, it’s not, maybe false equivalency, it’s also not that since my point is not arguing what is the law, but whether or not I agree with it (and if you don’t like deportation laws, any of them) then I have you where I want you.

And we’ll say deporting a family that came here illegally, as if it matters, Im sure you have some objection to the law/policy.