Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[RKMBrown]

No you fucking POS, homosexuality is not like the preference for little children that you keep promoting again and again and again and again and again on this board. Why don't you take your discussions about pedophilia and leave.

So let me get this straight, you are judging other sexual orientations as repugnant?

That's rich. And it's hypocrisy. Equal rights are blind, remember? That's what your group has been telling us since day one. Who are you to judge another man's physical pleasure? Unless you feel that if a majority objects to a certain sexual orientation, it has every right to?

Well?

Yes, I am judging sex with pre-pubescent children as repugnant. If that makes me a hypocrite, I'm a hypocrite.

 

[Syriusly]

Just because tha APA doesn't consider it a mental illness, doesn't make it so. As the video I linked showed, the one you ignored when you decided to make your ill informed post, shows that the decision to no longer classify homosexuality as a mental illness was a political decision, not a medical one made on a body of research or evidence. The APA caved to pressure from the political left and gay lobbyists. This isn't me saying it, this was the President of the APA, who was sympathetic to gay rights during the time period. He states that no evidence was provided when declassifying homosexuality as a mental illness.

You can call it homophobic crap, but it is the truth. Look at the 1972 gay rights platform, easily obtain on google, I'll link it here, or look at harvey milk or bryan singer's escapades with 14-15 year old boys. There is a strong proclivity towards pedophilia among homosexuals, this is just a fact, and it is borne out in study after study, along with proclivities towards other mental illnesses and anti-social behaviors like suicide, drug use, unsafe sex etc.

The 1972 Gay Rights Platform Platform created at the National Coalitionof Gay Organizations Convention held in Chicago in 1972

The proportions of heterosexual and homosexual pedophiles among sex... - PubMed - NCBI

Suicide and suicide risk in lesbian gay bisexual and transgender... - PubMed - NCBI

CDC Fact Sheet - Gay and Bisexual Men Gender Risk HIV AIDS

Sexual Behavior in Borderline Personality

Rates and predictors of mental illness in gay men lesbians and bis... - PubMed - NCBI

High prevalence of mental disorders and comorbidity in the Geneva G... - PubMed - NCBI


Sorry, these aren't normal people, they are mentally unbalanced and need psychological help, encouraging their anti-social behavior and discouraging them form treating their underlying mental illness not only hurts them but poisons the greater society.

Have you given much thought to what this kind of 'evidence' proves? You're providing statistical evidence correlating one 'anti-social' behavior with others. It's a little like associating alcohol consumption with other criminal activity during prohibition. I assume statistics for the period would show those who drank were more likely to be involved in other kinds of crime. But the reason for that is fairly obvious, and when alcohol was legalized, those statistics normalized.

Keeping homosexuals "in the closet", and branding them as "anti-social" by definition, pushes them into a community and a mindset that indulges criminal behavior in general. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy that pushes decent people into dark corners. And when that takes its toll, you want to use it as evidence that they should be pushed even harder. To me, that attitude is far sicker than what you're denouncing.

You are getting it wrong, it is underlying mental illness that drives their homosexual and other anti-social behaviors for the most part, not the other way around.

Also, this idea that mental illness or anti-social behavior is caused by environmental factors like discrimination or persecution really has no basis in reality. y

Even though essentially the entire medical community disagrees with you.

For example the CDC


Experiences with Violence
Negative attitudes toward gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgender people put LGBT youth at increased risk for experiences with violence, compared with other students [1]. Violence can include behaviors such as bullying, teasing, harassment, physical assault, and suicide-related behaviors.

A 2009 survey* of more than 7,000 LGBT middle and high school students aged 13–21 years found that in the past year, because of their sexual orientation—

• Eight of ten students had been verbally harassed at school;
• Four of ten had been physically harassed at school;
• Six of ten felt unsafe at school; and
• One of five had been the victim of a physical assault at school [2].

*Survey participants were recruited online and through community-based groups and service organizations serving LGBT youth.

Bullying and LGBT Youth

LGBT youth are also at increased risk for suicidal thoughts and behaviors, suicide attempts, and suicide. A nationally representative study of adolescents in grades 7–12 found that lesbian, gay, and bisexual youth were more than twice as likely to have attempted suicide as their heterosexual peers [3]. More studies are needed to better understand the risks for suicide among transgender youth.

Another survey of more than 7,000 seventh- and eighth-grade students from a large Midwestern county examined the effects of school climate and homophobic bullying on lesbian, gay, bisexual, and questioning (LGBQ) youth and found that

• LGBQ youth were more likely than heterosexual youth to report high levels of bullying and substance use;
• Students who were questioning their sexual orientation reported more bullying, homophobic victimization, unexcused absences from school, drug use, feelings of depression, and suicidal behaviors than either heterosexual or LGB students;
• LGB students who did not experience homophobic teasing reported the lowest levels of depression and suicidal feelings of all student groups (heterosexual, LGB, and questioning students); and
• All students, regardless of sexual orientation, reported the lowest levels of depression, suicidal feelings, alcohol and marijuana use, and unexcused absences from school when they were
  • In a positive school climate and
  • Not experiencing homophobic teasing

But hey- you clearly have far more training and expertise than doctors and psychologists and other health care professionals....

 

[Syriusly]

No you fucking POS, homosexuality is not like the preference for little children that you keep promoting again and again and again and again and again on this board. Why don't you take your discussions about pedophilia and leave.

So let me get this straight, you are judging other sexual orientations as repugnant?

That's rich. And it's hypocrisy. Equal rights are blind, remember? That's what your group has been telling us since day one. Who are you to judge another man's physical pleasure? Unless you feel that if a majority objects to a certain sexual orientation, it has every right to?

Well?

Yes, I am judging sex with pre-pubescent children as repugnant. If that makes me a hypocrite, I'm a hypocrite.

Why is it that homophobes seem unable to distinguish the moral difference between consensual sex between adults- and the rape of a child?

I really don't understand.

 

[RKMBrown]

No you fucking POS, homosexuality is not like the preference for little children that you keep promoting again and again and again and again and again on this board. Why don't you take your discussions about pedophilia and leave.

So let me get this straight, you are judging other sexual orientations as repugnant?

That's rich. And it's hypocrisy. Equal rights are blind, remember? That's what your group has been telling us since day one. Who are you to judge another man's physical pleasure? Unless you feel that if a majority objects to a certain sexual orientation, it has every right to?

Well?

Yes, I am judging sex with pre-pubescent children as repugnant. If that makes me a hypocrite, I'm a hypocrite.

Why is it that homophobes seem unable to distinguish the moral difference between consensual sex between adults- and the rape of a child?

I really don't understand.

It's because some Jewish rabbi's decided both were against rabbinical law a few thousand years ago. It's only been a couple decades since it was illegal to be gay in this country. It will take a couple more decades before the people who were taught good Christians don't mingle with mixed black/white couples and/or gay people. I know, I was one of them. I'm still a Christian, but now I look at these sort of laws as I believe Jesus would, not as the rabbis did.

 

[ShackledNation]

I'm talking about the culture built up over the years where homosexuality was a serious social stigma. Where people were killed for 'coming out'. But even today, the experience of young gay people can be traumatizing. I don't see how you can ignore the difficulties of facing a society that decides for you that you are 'anti-social'. Are gays more susceptible to anti-social behavior because mainstream culture has traditionally marginalized them? Or are they marginalized because of innate anti-social behavior? That's a chicken-and-egg question that requires more than statistical correlation.

I knew a "young gay person" once who committed suicide the long way. So let me tell you a little bit about his trauma..

He was QUITE social with his gayness. And in that way he also murdered hundreds, possibly even thousands by the time he finished killing himself.

He was born normal and then molested by a man as a boy. This imprinted him to seek out compulsively [and very promiscuously, typical of child victims of molestation] males for sex. Meanwhile he kept falling in love with women. It was pure psychological torture. Predictably he contracted HIV from raw anonymous sex that is very typical of his type of "gay youth". To get even with those he perceived that created his angst, he continued to go out and have endless anonymous sex with as many partners as his strength would maintain until his body began wasting away with AIDS.

Back then he still could've gotten reparative therapy he so longed for his condition, and to heal the wounds of child abuse he suffered. Today however, if he was alive and at that young age again, he would be prohibited by law from doing so in the state where he lived [California]. But in that state no effort is spared to coax "closeted gays" or "bi-curious" youth from the hetero ranks.

Instead, he killed hundreds, maybe thousands before the gun ultimately turned on him. You all don't want to talk about how common this scenario [at least the compulsive imprinting part of it] is among "young gay men". And you sure don't want to discuss how at the root of any suicidal thoughts they might have, may be lingering suppressed toxic memories of events where they were assaulted/learned to "love" what was done to them as innocent boys.

Yet the CDC didn't fear this discussion. They did a survey. And here's the results they came up with:

ATLANTA [2005 Clinical Psychiatry News] -- Substance abuse is pervasive among gay men and is so intricately intertwined with epidemics of depression, partner abuse, and childhood sexual abuse that adequately addressing one issue requires attention to the others as well, said Ronald Stall, Ph.D., chief of prevention research for the division of HIV/AIDS prevention at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta...

No scientifically sound study has linked sexual orientation or identity with parental role-modeling or childhood sexual abuse. Your story is in no way verifiable as true, and anyone could make up a story like that and post it online. But guess what? Even if it were true your story is purely anecdotal and serves as evidence for nothing.

 

[Seawytch]

No you fucking POS, homosexuality is not like the preference for little children that you keep promoting again and again and again and again and again on this board. Why don't you take your discussions about pedophilia and leave.

So let me get this straight, you are judging other sexual orientations as repugnant?

That's rich. And it's hypocrisy. Equal rights are blind, remember? That's what your group has been telling us since day one. Who are you to judge another man's physical pleasure? Unless you feel that if a majority objects to a certain sexual orientation, it has every right to?

Well?

Yes, I am judging sex with pre-pubescent children as repugnant. If that makes me a hypocrite, I'm a hypocrite.

Why is it that homophobes seem unable to distinguish the moral difference between consensual sex between adults- and the rape of a child?

I really don't understand.

Consent, period..,'cause the same dimwits will sashay onto animals and inanimate objects.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The personification of Relativism:

However, I don't think that being a heterosexual or being a homosexual is immoral- certainly not by my moral code.

This is also how they feel about adults pursuing children for sexual gratification.

See how that works and why they're "THE PROBLEM?"

No matter how many times you post that, it is STILL A FUCKING LIE.

 

[WorldWatcher]

I'm talking about the culture built up over the years where homosexuality was a serious social stigma. Where people were killed for 'coming out'. But even today, the experience of young gay people can be traumatizing. I don't see how you can ignore the difficulties of facing a society that decides for you that you are 'anti-social'. Are gays more susceptible to anti-social behavior because mainstream culture has traditionally marginalized them? Or are they marginalized because of innate anti-social behavior? That's a chicken-and-egg question that requires more than statistical correlation.

I knew a "young gay person" once who committed suicide the long way. So let me tell you a little bit about his trauma..

He was QUITE social with his gayness. And in that way he also murdered hundreds, possibly even thousands by the time he finished killing himself.

He was born normal and then molested by a man as a boy. This imprinted him to seek out compulsively [and very promiscuously, typical of child victims of molestation] males for sex. Meanwhile he kept falling in love with women. It was pure psychological torture. Predictably he contracted HIV from raw anonymous sex that is very typical of his type of "gay youth". To get even with those he perceived that created his angst, he continued to go out and have endless anonymous sex with as many partners as his strength would maintain until his body began wasting away with AIDS.

Back then he still could've gotten reparative therapy he so longed for his condition, and to heal the wounds of child abuse he suffered. Today however, if he was alive and at that young age again, he would be prohibited by law from doing so in the state where he lived [California]. But in that state no effort is spared to coax "closeted gays" or "bi-curious" youth from the hetero ranks.

Instead, he killed hundreds, maybe thousands before the gun ultimately turned on him. You all don't want to talk about how common this scenario [at least the compulsive imprinting part of it] is among "young gay men". And you sure don't want to discuss how at the root of any suicidal thoughts they might have, may be lingering suppressed toxic memories of events where they were assaulted/learned to "love" what was done to them as innocent boys.

Yet the CDC didn't fear this discussion. They did a survey. And here's the results they came up with:

ATLANTA [2005 Clinical Psychiatry News] -- Substance abuse is pervasive among gay men and is so intricately intertwined with epidemics of depression, partner abuse, and childhood sexual abuse that adequately addressing one issue requires attention to the others as well, said Ronald Stall, Ph.D., chief of prevention research for the division of HIV/AIDS prevention at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta...

No scientifically sound study has linked sexual orientation or identity with parental role-modeling or childhood sexual abuse. Your story is in no way verifiable as true, and anyone could make up a story like that and post it online. But guess what? Even if it were true your story is purely anecdotal and serves as evidence for nothing.

Think of Sil's story of a serial killer that killed hundreds even thousands of people and she blames it on California banning "reparative therapy".

Now check into California's law. It was signed in September 2012, a stay was issued in December barring enforcement. In August 2013 the 9th Circuit Court upheld the law. In June 2014 the Supreme Court decided to reject an appeal.

So this serial killer who killed hundreds, possibly thousands - but couldn't get the help that Sil says we denied must of done all that between June 2014 and November 2014 since it wasn't illegal prior to that.

Sniff Test?

>>>>

 

[ShackledNation]

I'm talking about the culture built up over the years where homosexuality was a serious social stigma. Where people were killed for 'coming out'. But even today, the experience of young gay people can be traumatizing. I don't see how you can ignore the difficulties of facing a society that decides for you that you are 'anti-social'. Are gays more susceptible to anti-social behavior because mainstream culture has traditionally marginalized them? Or are they marginalized because of innate anti-social behavior? That's a chicken-and-egg question that requires more than statistical correlation.

I knew a "young gay person" once who committed suicide the long way. So let me tell you a little bit about his trauma..

He was QUITE social with his gayness. And in that way he also murdered hundreds, possibly even thousands by the time he finished killing himself.

He was born normal and then molested by a man as a boy. This imprinted him to seek out compulsively [and very promiscuously, typical of child victims of molestation] males for sex. Meanwhile he kept falling in love with women. It was pure psychological torture. Predictably he contracted HIV from raw anonymous sex that is very typical of his type of "gay youth". To get even with those he perceived that created his angst, he continued to go out and have endless anonymous sex with as many partners as his strength would maintain until his body began wasting away with AIDS.

Back then he still could've gotten reparative therapy he so longed for his condition, and to heal the wounds of child abuse he suffered. Today however, if he was alive and at that young age again, he would be prohibited by law from doing so in the state where he lived [California]. But in that state no effort is spared to coax "closeted gays" or "bi-curious" youth from the hetero ranks.

Instead, he killed hundreds, maybe thousands before the gun ultimately turned on him. You all don't want to talk about how common this scenario [at least the compulsive imprinting part of it] is among "young gay men". And you sure don't want to discuss how at the root of any suicidal thoughts they might have, may be lingering suppressed toxic memories of events where they were assaulted/learned to "love" what was done to them as innocent boys.

Yet the CDC didn't fear this discussion. They did a survey. And here's the results they came up with:

ATLANTA [2005 Clinical Psychiatry News] -- Substance abuse is pervasive among gay men and is so intricately intertwined with epidemics of depression, partner abuse, and childhood sexual abuse that adequately addressing one issue requires attention to the others as well, said Ronald Stall, Ph.D., chief of prevention research for the division of HIV/AIDS prevention at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta...

No scientifically sound study has linked sexual orientation or identity with parental role-modeling or childhood sexual abuse. Your story is in no way verifiable as true, and anyone could make up a story like that and post it online. But guess what? Even if it were true your story is purely anecdotal and serves as evidence for nothing.

Think of Sil's story of a serial killer that killed hundreds even thousands of people and she blames it on California banning "reparative therapy". No realize that California's law wasn't passed until

Now check into Califoria's law. It was signed in September 2012, a stay was issued in December barring enforcement. In August 2013 the 9th Circuit Court upheld the law. In June 2014 the Supreme Court decided to reject an appeal.

So this serial killer who killed hundreds, possibily thousands - but couldn't get the help that Sil says we denied must of done all that between June 2014 and November 2014 since it wasn't illegal prior to that.


>>>>

And the news hasn't even covered this serial killer. Conspiracy?!?!? Lol.

 

[Steinlight]

Just because tha APA doesn't consider it a mental illness, doesn't make it so. As the video I linked showed, the one you ignored when you decided to make your ill informed post, shows that the decision to no longer classify homosexuality as a mental illness was a political decision, not a medical one made on a body of research or evidence. The APA caved to pressure from the political left and gay lobbyists. This isn't me saying it, this was the President of the APA, who was sympathetic to gay rights during the time period. He states that no evidence was provided when declassifying homosexuality as a mental illness.

You can call it homophobic crap, but it is the truth. Look at the 1972 gay rights platform, easily obtain on google, I'll link it here, or look at harvey milk or bryan singer's escapades with 14-15 year old boys. There is a strong proclivity towards pedophilia among homosexuals, this is just a fact, and it is borne out in study after study, along with proclivities towards other mental illnesses and anti-social behaviors like suicide, drug use, unsafe sex etc.

The 1972 Gay Rights Platform Platform created at the National Coalitionof Gay Organizations Convention held in Chicago in 1972

The proportions of heterosexual and homosexual pedophiles among sex... - PubMed - NCBI

Suicide and suicide risk in lesbian gay bisexual and transgender... - PubMed - NCBI

CDC Fact Sheet - Gay and Bisexual Men Gender Risk HIV AIDS

Sexual Behavior in Borderline Personality

Rates and predictors of mental illness in gay men lesbians and bis... - PubMed - NCBI

High prevalence of mental disorders and comorbidity in the Geneva G... - PubMed - NCBI


Sorry, these aren't normal people, they are mentally unbalanced and need psychological help, encouraging their anti-social behavior and discouraging them form treating their underlying mental illness not only hurts them but poisons the greater society.

Have you given much thought to what this kind of 'evidence' proves? You're providing statistical evidence correlating one 'anti-social' behavior with others. It's a little like associating alcohol consumption with other criminal activity during prohibition. I assume statistics for the period would show those who drank were more likely to be involved in other kinds of crime. But the reason for that is fairly obvious, and when alcohol was legalized, those statistics normalized.

Keeping homosexuals "in the closet", and branding them as "anti-social" by definition, pushes them into a community and a mindset that indulges criminal behavior in general. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy that pushes decent people into dark corners. And when that takes its toll, you want to use it as evidence that they should be pushed even harder. To me, that attitude is far sicker than what you're denouncing.

You are getting it wrong, it is underlying mental illness that drives their homosexual and other anti-social behaviors for the most part, not the other way around.

Well, that's a matter of opinion. You'll have to come up with something more than a correlation to make the case.

To suggest for example that a gay man in the US is driven to sexual risk behavior which gives him an increased risk of AIDS because he might have to cross state lines to get married now is a rather lame argument, not one based in fact, but in wild and hopeful speculation on your part. You want to sweep this issue of homosexual mental illness under the rug because it undermines your secular egalitarian agenda.

I'm talking about the culture built up over the years where homosexuality was a serious social stigma. Where people were killed for 'coming out'. But even today, the experience of young gay people can be traumatizing. I don't see how you can ignore the difficulties of facing a society that decides for you that you are 'anti-social'. Are gays more susceptible to anti-social behavior because mainstream culture has traditionally marginalized them? Or are they marginalized because of innate anti-social behavior? That's a chicken-and-egg question that requires more than statistical correlation.

See, this in an incredibly lazy cop out that shows you didn't even read the studies I cited, not even the conclusions. The studies I cited, more specifically, "Sexual Behavior in Borderline Personality" and the "Geneva Gay Men's Health Study" concluded a strong prevalence of comorbidity between mental illness and homosexuality, if you have an issue with their conclusions, take those concerns up with those who conducted the study. But you don't have an issue with the studies because you didn't read them. You just breezed over my post and just said, "correlation doesn't equal causation".

The point I am making, and what you ignored, is your claim that societal persecution(though you weren't specific about the manner of persecution the time or the place) triggers anti-social behavior, as opposed to their underlying mental illnesses which drive their impulsive behavior, really has no validity because as the studies I cite show, there is a uniformity of the data across multiple countries, and some of those countries far more liberal than others cited(like Netherlands vs USA until recently) on the matter of homosexuality and mental illness.

 

[Steinlight]

So let me get this straight, you are judging other sexual orientations as repugnant?

That's rich. And it's hypocrisy. Equal rights are blind, remember? That's what your group has been telling us since day one. Who are you to judge another man's physical pleasure? Unless you feel that if a majority objects to a certain sexual orientation, it has every right to?

Well?

Unlike you Silhouette- we understand the differences between consensual sex between adults- and the rape of a child.

Yes- I judge child rape as repugnant.

You see no difference between child rape, and adults having consensual sex.

Both homosexuality and pedophilia are mental illnesses.

Correction- pedophilia is a mental illness.

No medical organization considers homosexuality a mental illness.

Homosexuality was considered a mental illness for exactly 30 years- from 1952 through 1972 - and has not been considered a mental illness in the 40 years since.

The rest of your post is just the usual homophobic crap trying to call homosexuals pedophiles.

Just because tha APA doesn't consider it a mental illness, doesn't make it so..

So if the American Psychiatric Association doesn't consider it a mental illness- and the American Psychological Association doesn't consider it a disorder
The research on homosexuality is very clear. Homosexuality is neither mental illness nor moral depravity. It is simply the way a minority of our population expresses human love and sexuality. Study after study documents the mental health of gay men and lesbians. Studies of judgment, stability, reliability, and social and vocational adaptiveness all show that gay men and lesbians function every bit as well as heterosexuals.

Nor is homosexuality a matter of individual choice. Research suggests that the homosexual orientation is in place very early in the life cycle, possibly even before birth. It is found in about ten percent of the population, a figure which is surprisingly constant across cultures, irrespective of the different moral values and standards of a particular culture. Contrary to what some imply, the incidence of homosexuality in a population does not appear to change with new moral codes or social mores. Research findings suggest that efforts to repair homosexuals are nothing more than social prejudice garbed in psychological accouterments.

Who does consider it a mental disorder?

Not the American Counseling Association

The American Counseling Association has adopted a resolution that states that it: opposes portrayals of lesbian, gay, and bisexual youth and adults as mentally ill due to their sexual orientation

Not the CDC

Homosexuality is not a mental disorder, but homophobia, stigma, and discrimination have negative effects on the health of MSM, lesbians, and other sexual minorities.

Not the World Health Association

Not the British Royal College of Psychiatrists

The Royal College of Psychiatrists considers that sexual orientation is
determined by a combination of biological and postnatal environmental
factors.1–3 There is no evidence to go beyond this and impute any kind of
choice into the origins of sexual orientation.
The College wishes to clarify that homosexuality is not a psychiatric
disorder. In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association (APA) concluded
there was no scientifi c evidence that homosexuality was a disorder and
removed it from its diagnostic glossary of mental disorders. The International
Classifi cation of Diseases of the World Health Organization followed suit in
1992.

Not the Canadian Psychiatric Association

So none of the actual mental health professionals agree that being homosexual is a mental disorder- who should be listen to- you?

And your expertise is?

These associations and professional bodies suggest no relation between homosexuality and mental illness, that homosexuality isn't a form of paraphilia. They are stating an opinion which was the point the former president of the APA made, they made a political statement in the spirit of the gay rights and civil rights movement of the period, it wasn't based on a body of research. They claim there is a body of evidence for this contention, but where is it? Can you cite the work, because it contradicts the studies from the PubMed and NCBI databases I cited?

 

[dblack]

See, this in an incredibly lazy cop out that shows you didn't even read the studies I cited, not even the conclusions. The studies I cited, more specifically, "Sexual Behavior in Borderline Personality" and the "Geneva Gay Men's Health Study" concluded a strong prevalence of comorbidity between mental illness and homosexuality, if you have an issue with their conclusions, take those concerns up with those who conducted the study. But you don't have an issue with the studies because you didn't read them. You just breezed over my post and just said, "correlation doesn't equal causation".

I don't have an issue with their conclusions because they didn't draw any. They cited statistics indicating increased frequency of comorbidity - a correlation. You're drawing the conclusion that homosexuality causes or leads to those other conditions. And it's just an assumption on your part because you've decided it's "abnormal" and should be discouraged.

The point I am making, and what you ignored, is your claim that societal persecution(though you weren't specific about the manner of persecution the time or the place) triggers anti-social behavior, as opposed to their underlying mental illnesses which drive their impulsive, really has no validity because as the studies I cite show, there is a uniformity of the data across multiple countries, and some of those countries far more liberal than others cited(like Netherlands vs USA until recently) on the matter of homosexuality and mental illness.

I'm not ignoring your point. You might be right. But the evidence you offered doesn't prove your case.

 

[Steinlight]

As the video I linked showed, the one you ignored when you decided to make your ill informed post, shows that the decision to no longer classify homosexuality as a mental illness was a political decision, not a medical one made on a body of research or evidence. .

There was never any body of research or evidence that supported putting homosexuality as a mental disorder in the DSM in the first place.

This is the very amusing hypocrisy that I have heard from Silhouette before "They didn't use science!"- because there was no science involved in calling homosexuality a mental disorder- so why does it bother you so much that there was no science to change their minds?

Not a mental disorder until 1952.
Mental disorder from 1952-1974 (32 years)
Not a mental disorder from 1974 (40 years)

Homosexuality went the same way as 'female hysteria' as a mental disorder.

That isn't a serious argument. The DSM didn't exist until 1952, so of course it homosexuality wasn't listed as a mental disorder in the DSM until 1952. And to suggest there wasn't a body of research confirming this mainstream view prior to 1952 is false. For example even as early as 1886 with Psychopathia Sexualis by Krafft-Ebbing , there were major studies done on the issue.

 

[Steinlight]

or look at harvey milks..... escapades with 14-15 year old boys. .

I have looked into claims of such escapades....but I have found no evidence of such escapades except in the feverish imaginations of homophobes.

No you haven't, or if you are you are ignoring the evidence in front of you. Even verifiable wiki sources admit he had a underage relationship with Jack Mckinley, who was 16 and underage when they started seeing one another.
Harvey Milk - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Steinlight]

[
There is a strong proclivity towards pedophilia among homosexuals, this is just a fact, and it is borne out in study after studyy.

That is a claim often made- and never proven- by homophobes.

Fact: 90-98% of all child sexual molestation is by men.
Fact: 65% to 90% of all child molestation the victims are girls.
Fact: The majority of child sexual molestation is by a family member, or trusted family friend.

Your claims put children at risk.

Claiming that homosexuals are the pedophiles we need to worry about leaves actual pedophiles free to molest their victims- mostly girls- without scrutiny.

Homophobes endanger children.

Wow, what conclusive numbers, what an absolute fact, 65 to 90%, how definitive. Also none of the "facts" you list disprove that there is a disproportionate ratio of homosexual pedophiles to heterosexual pedophiles, greater than the homosexual portion of the population.

Then you go on to make the stupid claim that addressing the disproportionate level of pedophlia among homosexuals will distract individuals from adressing heterosexual pedophiles, as though it is an either or solution. You are a cartoonish liberal caricature that isn't serious when you make statements like that. You aren't a serious person.

 

[Steinlight]

See, this in an incredibly lazy cop out that shows you didn't even read the studies I cited, not even the conclusions. The studies I cited, more specifically, "Sexual Behavior in Borderline Personality" and the "Geneva Gay Men's Health Study" concluded a strong prevalence of comorbidity between mental illness and homosexuality, if you have an issue with their conclusions, take those concerns up with those who conducted the study. But you don't have an issue with the studies because you didn't read them. You just breezed over my post and just said, "correlation doesn't equal causation".

I don't have an issue with their conclusions because they didn't draw any. They cited statistics indicating increased frequency of comorbidity - a correlation. You're drawing the conclusion that homosexuality causes or leads to those other conditions. And it's just an assumption on your part because you've decided it's "abnormal" and should be discouraged.

The point I am making, and what you ignored, is your claim that societal persecution(though you weren't specific about the manner of persecution the time or the place) triggers anti-social behavior, as opposed to their underlying mental illnesses which drive their impulsive, really has no validity because as the studies I cite show, there is a uniformity of the data across multiple countries, and some of those countries far more liberal than others cited(like Netherlands vs USA until recently) on the matter of homosexuality and mental illness.

I'm not ignoring your point. You might be right. But the evidence you offered doesn't prove your case.

See, this in an incredibly lazy cop out that shows you didn't even read the studies I cited, not even the conclusions. The studies I cited, more specifically, "Sexual Behavior in Borderline Personality" and the "Geneva Gay Men's Health Study" concluded a strong prevalence of comorbidity between mental illness and homosexuality, if you have an issue with their conclusions, take those concerns up with those who conducted the study. But you don't have an issue with the studies because you didn't read them. You just breezed over my post and just said, "correlation doesn't equal causation".

I don't have an issue with their conclusions because they didn't draw any. They cited statistics indicating increased frequency of comorbidity - a correlation. You're drawing the conclusion that homosexuality causes or leads to those other conditions. And it's just an assumption on your part because you've decided it's "abnormal" and should be discouraged.

The point I am making, and what you ignored, is your claim that societal persecution(though you weren't specific about the manner of persecution the time or the place) triggers anti-social behavior, as opposed to their underlying mental illnesses which drive their impulsive, really has no validity because as the studies I cite show, there is a uniformity of the data across multiple countries, and some of those countries far more liberal than others cited(like Netherlands vs USA until recently) on the matter of homosexuality and mental illness.

I'm not ignoring your point. You might be right. But the evidence you offered doesn't prove your case.

First you say they make no conclusions than you say in the very next sentence they concluded a high prevalence of comorbidity. You need to get your story straight. Secondly, you have shown you don't have an understanding of comorbidity in psychological terms, the term implies association between disorders, not that disorders merely co-exist as a result of chance.
Contemporary Directions in Psychopathology Scientific Foundations of the ... - Google Books

The evidence I provided discounts your contention that "persecution" drives the anti social behaviors of homosexuals, as the data is uniform across societies with differing views on homosexuality.

 

[dblack]

See, this in an incredibly lazy cop out that shows you didn't even read the studies I cited, not even the conclusions. The studies I cited, more specifically, "Sexual Behavior in Borderline Personality" and the "Geneva Gay Men's Health Study" concluded a strong prevalence of comorbidity between mental illness and homosexuality, if you have an issue with their conclusions, take those concerns up with those who conducted the study. But you don't have an issue with the studies because you didn't read them. You just breezed over my post and just said, "correlation doesn't equal causation".

I don't have an issue with their conclusions because they didn't draw any. They cited statistics indicating increased frequency of comorbidity - a correlation. You're drawing the conclusion that homosexuality causes or leads to those other conditions. And it's just an assumption on your part because you've decided it's "abnormal" and should be discouraged.

The point I am making, and what you ignored, is your claim that societal persecution(though you weren't specific about the manner of persecution the time or the place) triggers anti-social behavior, as opposed to their underlying mental illnesses which drive their impulsive, really has no validity because as the studies I cite show, there is a uniformity of the data across multiple countries, and some of those countries far more liberal than others cited(like Netherlands vs USA until recently) on the matter of homosexuality and mental illness.

I'm not ignoring your point. You might be right. But the evidence you offered doesn't prove your case.

See, this in an incredibly lazy cop out that shows you didn't even read the studies I cited, not even the conclusions. The studies I cited, more specifically, "Sexual Behavior in Borderline Personality" and the "Geneva Gay Men's Health Study" concluded a strong prevalence of comorbidity between mental illness and homosexuality, if you have an issue with their conclusions, take those concerns up with those who conducted the study. But you don't have an issue with the studies because you didn't read them. You just breezed over my post and just said, "correlation doesn't equal causation".

I don't have an issue with their conclusions because they didn't draw any. They cited statistics indicating increased frequency of comorbidity - a correlation. You're drawing the conclusion that homosexuality causes or leads to those other conditions. And it's just an assumption on your part because you've decided it's "abnormal" and should be discouraged.

The point I am making, and what you ignored, is your claim that societal persecution(though you weren't specific about the manner of persecution the time or the place) triggers anti-social behavior, as opposed to their underlying mental illnesses which drive their impulsive, really has no validity because as the studies I cite show, there is a uniformity of the data across multiple countries, and some of those countries far more liberal than others cited(like Netherlands vs USA until recently) on the matter of homosexuality and mental illness.

I'm not ignoring your point. You might be right. But the evidence you offered doesn't prove your case.

First you say they make no conclusions than you say in the very next sentence they concluded a high prevalence of comorbidity. You need to get your story straight. Secondly, you have shown you don't have an understanding of comorbidity in psychological terms, the term implies association between disorders, not that disorders merely co-exist as a result of chance.
Contemporary Directions in Psychopathology Scientific Foundations of the ... - Google Books

The evidence I provided discounts your contention that "persecution" drives the anti social behaviors of homosexuals, as the data is uniform across societies with differing views on homosexuality.

Heh.. okay, you seem to be working with different definitions, which always makes discussion difficult. I don't consider a study to have drawn a useful "conclusion" unless it offers some explanation for the evidence it presents - some claim beyond the observation of a correlation.

Anyway, I don't have much patience for junk science in the name of pursuing a political vendetta. So, I'm gonna let you get on with it. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[Syriusly]

As the video I linked showed, the one you ignored when you decided to make your ill informed post, shows that the decision to no longer classify homosexuality as a mental illness was a political decision, not a medical one made on a body of research or evidence. .

There was never any body of research or evidence that supported putting homosexuality as a mental disorder in the DSM in the first place.

This is the very amusing hypocrisy that I have heard from Silhouette before "They didn't use science!"- because there was no science involved in calling homosexuality a mental disorder- so why does it bother you so much that there was no science to change their minds?

Not a mental disorder until 1952.
Mental disorder from 1952-1974 (32 years)
Not a mental disorder from 1974 (40 years)

Homosexuality went the same way as 'female hysteria' as a mental disorder.

That isn't a serious argument. The DSM didn't exist until 1952, so of course it homosexuality wasn't listed as a mental disorder in the DSM until 1952. And to suggest there wasn't a body of research confirming this mainstream view prior to 1952 is false. For example even as early as 1886 with Psychopathia Sexualis by Krafft-Ebbing , there were major studies done on the issue.

Actually, not only a serious argument, but thems the facts.

Homosexuality went the same way as a 'mental disorder' as 'female hysteria'.

There was- and is no 'hard scientific' evidence to support calling homosexuality a mental disorder.

And that is why it has not been considered one for 40 years.

 

[Syriusly]

or look at harvey milks..... escapades with 14-15 year old boys. .

I have looked into claims of such escapades....but I have found no evidence of such escapades except in the feverish imaginations of homophobes.

No you haven't, or if you are you are ignoring the evidence in front of you. Even verifiable wiki sources admit he had a underage relationship with Jack Mckinley, who was 16 and underage when they started seeing one another.
Harvey Milk - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Feel free to prove your statement
look at harvey milks..... escapades with 14-15 year old boys.

So where is the evidence of Milk having escapades with 14 and 15 year old boys?

 

[Syriusly]

[
There is a strong proclivity towards pedophilia among homosexuals, this is just a fact, and it is borne out in study after studyy.

That is a claim often made- and never proven- by homophobes.

Fact: 90-98% of all child sexual molestation is by men.
Fact: 65% to 90% of all child molestation the victims are girls.
Fact: The majority of child sexual molestation is by a family member, or trusted family friend.

Your claims put children at risk.

Claiming that homosexuals are the pedophiles we need to worry about leaves actual pedophiles free to molest their victims- mostly girls- without scrutiny.

Homophobes endanger children.

Wow, what conclusive numbers, what an absolute fact, 65 to 90%, how definitive. Also none of the "facts" you list disprove that there is a disproportionate ratio of homosexual pedophiles to heterosexual pedophiles, greater than the homosexual portion of the population.

Then you go on to make the stupid claim that addressing the disproportionate level of pedophlia among homosexuals will distract individuals from adressing heterosexual pedophiles, as though it is an either or solution. You are a cartoonish liberal caricature that isn't serious when you make statements like that. You aren't a serious person.

First of all, let me point out that you haven't supported any of your claims.

Then lets go to the facts
http://www.drryanhall.com/Articles/pedophiles.pdf

Fact: 90-98% of all child sexual molestation is by men.
Fact: 65% to 90% of all child molestation the victims are girls.

So the facts are that the majority of child molestation is by men to girls.

You trying to paint homosexuals as pedophiles, puts children, like my daughter in danger.

You would have people fearing all homosexuals, while in reality the most likely child molester is that married stepfather, or married minister or married teacher.

Your type of homophobia puts children at risk.

And you don't care.