Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Maybe you should I don't know read the thread?


I don't propose to outlaw gay, I don't believe gays are more likely to be pedophiles, and I don't care if they "marry" but yeah gays are mental defects.

I have read the thread. I'm glad you don't believe gays are all pedophiles. I'm glad you don't care that they marry. But you are still hugely ignorant about homosexuality if you believe it is a mental defect. Your tolerance of same-sex marriage does not excuse your bigotry and ignorance.

You admit that science can't tell us why some people are gay yet your call people who have a theory that you disagree with bigoted. That is ignorant sir, prove homosexuality isn't a menta disorder, then we'll talk.

No, that is not ignorant. Science has not definitively proven where homosexuality has come from, but that does not automatically make every theory potentially valid. For example, just because the jury is still out on homosexuality does that mean if I say gay people come from aliens I should be taken seriously? No. Your mental disorder argument is equally absurd.

The burden is on you to prove your idiotic claim, not on me to debunk. Good luck with that. In the meantime, chew on this.

"The APA has declared LBG as not a mental illness or disorder with no identifiable dissimilar psychopathology, as both heterosexual and homosexual behaviors are normal aspects of human sexuality" and that homosexuality is not a choice.

The APA could just as easily declare the Sun a perfect Vacation Destination. That doesn't make it so... .

Like you the APA is offering their subjective opinion.

The coolest part of all this is that it all boils down to reasoning... and reason dictates that given the absence of a genetics being responsible, that means that it's not genetics. It's not like the homo-lobby hasn't poured money on science to find a genetic indicator to no avail... so we know that if were possible to even fabricate such evidence that it would be so fabricated and you gals would be straight up authorized as legitimate Shims...

Therefore, we know that homosexuality is not even close enough to a genetic issue that it is not even possible to fabricate evidence that it is.

So... that leaves us with what we always knew... that homosexuality is a learned behavior. Wherein some 'caring adult' pursued a very young minor child, so young that the child is unable to communicate verbally, thus sufficiently young to have no memory of the crime.

But there, in the recess of their subconscious is the imprinted instructions that sexual arousal is directed toward whatever gender so lovingly cared for them way back when.

OH! And we should probably go back over the whole "proof" thing AGAIN:

Proof: evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement.

Now notice where it doesn't say that the 'evidence' or 'argument' doesn't need to convince you of anything... which is really good news for the argument, given that its impossible to convince a relativist of anything that does not serve their subjective needs... .

I'd listen to the opinion and research of some of the brightest scientists in America than your baseless assertions any day. There is numerous evidence that homosexuality is genetic or epigenetic. And there is zero evidence that it is a choice. Again, you just post a bunch of BS and ignore anything that contradicts your preexisting bias.

The better question is did you choose to have selective attention, or can you just not help it?

The bright minds you listen to are the one's that reaffirm your subjective needs. Such is the nature of the relativist.

What you don't seem to understand here is that I have no dog on this hunt. I could not care less who screws who, be they man or beast or man and beast.

As far as Im concerned if homosexuality had come up as a genetic thing, it would have made you folks a distinct gender; which Ive always coined as 'shim'. And as a gender, guess where that would place you? Square and centered in normal... .

But, as we both know, there is no genetic component in the sexually abnormal thang.

Now... pay close attention here, because we've been 450 pages getting to this little key rub:

That makes the problem "MENTAL". Meaning that despite what the APA homosexuals voted on, sexual abnormality is now what it has always been and THAT IS: A MENTAL DISORDER... One which is not at ALL distinct from Relativism... and Relativism enjoys perhaps one degree of separation from DELUSION.

Which you idiots are determined to NORMALIZE!

Now... as we look around our 'reality' we see debauchery and hedonism run amok... we see insanity... a mouthy minority screamin' to the top of their lungs: "DON'T JUDGE" "RULES DISCRIMINATE!" "DO FOR ME OR ELSE!" and "We have a right to screw whoever we want... even it means we have to murder our children!".

And isn't it the craziest of coincidence that those same individuals are consistently the one's who find no problem with men marrying men and woman marrying woman and both of those groups forcing others to celebrate that through the illicit use police powers, on the basis that ITS THE LAW.

This demonstrates a thorough disregard for what?

It's a complete disregard for REASON. But only the reason which defines the very foundation of this nation.

And THAT is what happens when one tries to NORMALIZE MENTAL ABNORMALITY... ya end up iving inside THE FAR SIDE CALENDAR!

 

[Syriusly]

An Orientation, of course. And it's a sliding scale BTW.

Oh my... I'm sensin' some reticence.

So you feel that Homosexuality is an "Orientation"... how's that work? IS it a genetic thing, like warm blood, 5 fingers on two hands and 5 toes on two feet and stuff like that?

Or... is it something different?

Is it like being left handed? Or is it like believing in a fairy tale being who rules over everyone?

Orientation for most people is pretty easy to understand.

I have always been attracted to women- even before I knew what sex was.

And my gay friends tell me that is how they were attracted to men.

Orientation refers to the gender you are attracted to. If any.

Bullshit, gay is a choice..

So you are able to be attracted to men if you choose to?

See, I don't understand this- I have always been attracted to women- not a choice for me.

You just have more flexibility than I do I guess.

Could I be attracted to men? No, I personally couldn't be, not any more than I could be attracted to say Meth. are you suggesting that some people are just born preferring meth?

So you are saying that you have no choice in the gender of the person you are sexually attracted to- but you think for homosexuals- they do make the choice of who they are attracted to?

That is quite some rationalization going on there.

 

[Syriusly]

I have read the thread. I'm glad you don't believe gays are all pedophiles. I'm glad you don't care that they marry. But you are still hugely ignorant about homosexuality if you believe it is a mental defect. Your tolerance of same-sex marriage does not excuse your bigotry and ignorance.

You admit that science can't tell us why some people are gay yet your call people who have a theory that you disagree with bigoted. That is ignorant sir, prove homosexuality isn't a menta disorder, then we'll talk.

No, that is not ignorant. Science has not definitively proven where homosexuality has come from, but that does not automatically make every theory potentially valid. For example, just because the jury is still out on homosexuality does that mean if I say gay people come from aliens I should be taken seriously? No. Your mental disorder argument is equally absurd.

The burden is on you to prove your idiotic claim, not on me to debunk. Good luck with that. In the meantime, chew on this.

"The APA has declared LBG as not a mental illness or disorder with no identifiable dissimilar psychopathology, as both heterosexual and homosexual behaviors are normal aspects of human sexuality" and that homosexuality is not a choice.

The APA could just as easily declare the Sun a perfect Vacation Destination. That doesn't make it so... .

Like you the APA is offering their subjective opinion.

The coolest part of all this is that it all boils down to reasoning... and reason dictates that given the absence of a genetics being responsible, that means that it's not genetics. It's not like the homo-lobby hasn't poured money on science to find a genetic indicator to no avail... so we know that if were possible to even fabricate such evidence that it would be so fabricated and you gals would be straight up authorized as legitimate Shims...

Therefore, we know that homosexuality is not even close enough to a genetic issue that it is not even possible to fabricate evidence that it is.

So... that leaves us with what we always knew... that homosexuality is a learned behavior. Wherein some 'caring adult' pursued a very young minor child, so young that the child is unable to communicate verbally, thus sufficiently young to have no memory of the crime.

But there, in the recess of their subconscious is the imprinted instructions that sexual arousal is directed toward whatever gender so lovingly cared for them way back when.

OH! And we should probably go back over the whole "proof" thing AGAIN:

Proof: evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement.

Now notice where it doesn't say that the 'evidence' or 'argument' doesn't need to convince you of anything... which is really good news for the argument, given that its impossible to convince a relativist of anything that does not serve their subjective needs... .

I'd listen to the opinion and research of some of the brightest scientists in America than your baseless assertions any day. There is numerous evidence that homosexuality is genetic or epigenetic. And there is zero evidence that it is a choice. Again, you just post a bunch of BS and ignore anything that contradicts your preexisting bias.

The better question is did you choose to have selective attention, or can you just not help it?

The bright minds you listen to are the one's that reaffirm your subjective needs. Such is the nature of the relativist.

What you don't seem to understand here is that I have no dog on this hunt. I could not care less who screws who, be they man or beast or man and beast.

As far as Im concerned if homosexuality had come up as a genetic thing, it would have made you folks a distinct gender; which Ive always coined as 'shim'. And as a gender, guess where that would place you? Square and centered in normal... .

But, as we both know, there is no genetic component in the sexually abnormal thang.

Now... pay close attention here, because we've been 450 pages getting to this little key rub:

That makes the problem "MENTAL". Meaning that despite what the APA homosexuals voted on, sexual abnormality is now what it has always been and THAT IS: A MENTAL DISORDER... One which is not at ALL distinct from Relativism... and Relativism enjoys perhaps one degree of separation from DELUSION.

Which you idiots are determined to NORMALIZE!

Now... as we look around our 'reality' we see debauchery and hedonism run amok... we see insanity... a mouthy minority screamin' to the top of their lungs: "DON'T JUDGE" "RULES DISCRIMINATE!" "DO FOR ME OR ELSE!" and "We have a right to screw whoever we want... even it means we have to murder our children!".

And isn't it the craziest of coincidence that those same individuals are consistently the one's who find no problem with men marrying men and woman marrying woman and both of those groups forcing others to celebrate that through the illicit use police powers, on the basis that ITS THE LAW.

This demonstrates a thorough disregard for what?

It's a complete disregard for REASON. But only the reason which defines the very foundation of this nation.

And THAT is what happens when one tries to NORMALIZE MENTAL ABNORMALITY... ya end up iving inside THE FAR SIDE CALENDAR!

Bat guano crazy.

 

[Syriusly]

You are conflating sexual acts with attraction/orientation. Nobody chooses to be attracted to the same or opposite sex. That is a ludicrous and absurd notion.

Actually, choosing to respond to deviant sexual desires, provides that one will likely engage in deviant behavior. This is the equation that sums to a deviant... a pervert, a person of low moral character. A person who chooses to respond to one deviant impulse is very likely to respond to any deviant impulse. Be that an impulse that requires a consenting adult or a consenting minor. (That's right... such deviancy does not force itself on the innocent... it lulls the innocent into 'loving' relationships, through any deceit, any fraud it can produce... on the hope that such will influence the ignorance inherent in the innocent.)

As a result, these are behaviors which do not come as a function of 'right', because these actions only bring chaos, calamity and catastrophe... .as such the societal collective is justified in discouraging these behaviors... thus where such behavior is predictable through the individual declaration of such 'tendencies', from which such behavior, becomes likely.


It is from THIS, that we can know to an absolute certainty that "SCIENCE!" which claims that cognitive abnormality, such as that described above, is otherwise NORMAL... thus not a disorder, is FALSE.

Such a conclusion is Deceit, advanced through FRAUDULENT MEANS, toward the goal of influencing the Ignorant.

There we can know that such efforts are manifestly EVIL.


See how that works?

Again you have nothing more than your own bigoted baseless assertions. Nothing you say is rooted in science or reason. There is nothing immoral about homosexuality. There is nothing immoral about sexual acts between consenting adults of the same sex. And gay couples do not cause chaos and catastrophe. Period.

Maybe you should I don't know read the thread?


I don't propose to outlaw gay, I don't believe gays are more likely to be pedophiles, and I don't care if they "marry" but yeah gays are mental defects.

I have read the thread. I'm glad you don't believe gays are all pedophiles. I'm glad you don't care that they marry. But you are still hugely ignorant about homosexuality if you believe it is a mental defect. Your tolerance of same-sex marriage does not excuse your bigotry and ignorance.

You admit that science can't tell us why some people are gay yet your call people who have a theory that you disagree with bigoted. That is ignorant sir, prove homosexuality isn't a menta disorder, then we'll talk.

We don't have to prove homosexuality isn't a mental disorder- anymore than you have to prove that homosexuality is a mental disorder.

According to every professional medical association in the United States and Britain- homosexuality is not a mental disorder.

The burden is upon you to prove them wrong.

 

[Syriusly]

No you fucking POS, homosexuality is not like the preference for little children that you keep promoting again and again and again and again and again on this board. Why don't you take your discussions about pedophilia and leave.

So let me get this straight, you are judging other sexual orientations as repugnant?

That's rich. And it's hypocrisy. Equal rights are blind, remember? That's what your group has been telling us since day one. Who are you to judge another man's physical pleasure? Unless you feel that if a majority objects to a certain sexual orientation, it has every right to?

Well?

Unlike you Silhouette- we understand the differences between consensual sex between adults- and the rape of a child.

Yes- I judge child rape as repugnant.

You see no difference between child rape, and adults having consensual sex.

 

[Steinlight]

No you fucking POS, homosexuality is not like the preference for little children that you keep promoting again and again and again and again and again on this board. Why don't you take your discussions about pedophilia and leave.

So let me get this straight, you are judging other sexual orientations as repugnant?

That's rich. And it's hypocrisy. Equal rights are blind, remember? That's what your group has been telling us since day one. Who are you to judge another man's physical pleasure? Unless you feel that if a majority objects to a certain sexual orientation, it has every right to?

Well?

Unlike you Silhouette- we understand the differences between consensual sex between adults- and the rape of a child.

Yes- I judge child rape as repugnant.

You see no difference between child rape, and adults having consensual sex.

Both homosexuality and pedophilia are mental illnesses(it was legally classified as such until the 70s when it was removed as a mental illness through a political vote, not one based on medical/scientific evidence).


Homosexuals have greater proclivity towards mental ill and anti-social acts like pedophilia, you can't separate the two, they are hand in hand and always have been, this dark side of homosexuality is just hidden by the liberal media and hollywood because it would undermine their campaign of making homosexuality look like a clean cookie cutter monogomous lifestyle when it is full of AIDS, child molestation, drug use, mental illness, and suicide. NAMBLA was part of the "Gay Rights" Movement in the early days, and the initial platform sought to remove age of consent laws. Obviously they wouldn't be able to get rid of consent laws today, but they will lobby to reduce age of consent laws and be successful most likely. The media has been successful in hyper-sexualizing teens so the public will more likely than not be numbed to reducing the age of consent in a couple years.

 

[Syriusly]

No you fucking POS, homosexuality is not like the preference for little children that you keep promoting again and again and again and again and again on this board. Why don't you take your discussions about pedophilia and leave.

So let me get this straight, you are judging other sexual orientations as repugnant?

That's rich. And it's hypocrisy. Equal rights are blind, remember? That's what your group has been telling us since day one. Who are you to judge another man's physical pleasure? Unless you feel that if a majority objects to a certain sexual orientation, it has every right to?

Well?

Unlike you Silhouette- we understand the differences between consensual sex between adults- and the rape of a child.

Yes- I judge child rape as repugnant.

You see no difference between child rape, and adults having consensual sex.

Both homosexuality and pedophilia are mental illnesses.

Correction- pedophilia is a mental illness.

No medical organization considers homosexuality a mental illness.

Homosexuality was considered a mental illness for exactly 30 years- from 1952 through 1972 - and has not been considered a mental illness in the 40 years since.

The rest of your post is just the usual homophobic crap trying to call homosexuals pedophiles.

 

[Steinlight]

No you fucking POS, homosexuality is not like the preference for little children that you keep promoting again and again and again and again and again on this board. Why don't you take your discussions about pedophilia and leave.

So let me get this straight, you are judging other sexual orientations as repugnant?

That's rich. And it's hypocrisy. Equal rights are blind, remember? That's what your group has been telling us since day one. Who are you to judge another man's physical pleasure? Unless you feel that if a majority objects to a certain sexual orientation, it has every right to?

Well?

Unlike you Silhouette- we understand the differences between consensual sex between adults- and the rape of a child.

Yes- I judge child rape as repugnant.

You see no difference between child rape, and adults having consensual sex.

Both homosexuality and pedophilia are mental illnesses.

Correction- pedophilia is a mental illness.

No medical organization considers homosexuality a mental illness.

Homosexuality was considered a mental illness for exactly 30 years- from 1952 through 1972 - and has not been considered a mental illness in the 40 years since.

The rest of your post is just the usual homophobic crap trying to call homosexuals pedophiles.

Just because tha APA doesn't consider it a mental illness, doesn't make it so. As the video I linked showed, the one you ignored when you decided to make your ill informed post, shows that the decision to no longer classify homosexuality as a mental illness was a political decision, not a medical one made on a body of research or evidence. The APA caved to pressure from the political left and gay lobbyists. This isn't me saying it, this was the President of the APA, who was sympathetic to gay rights during the time period. He states that no evidence was provided when declassifying homosexuality as a mental illness.

You can call it homophobic crap, but it is the truth. Look at the 1972 gay rights platform, easily obtain on google, I'll link it here, or look at harvey milk or bryan singer's escapades with 14-15 year old boys. There is a strong proclivity towards pedophilia among homosexuals, this is just a fact, and it is borne out in study after study, along with proclivities towards other mental illnesses and anti-social behaviors like suicide, drug use, unsafe sex etc.

The 1972 Gay Rights Platform Platform created at the National Coalitionof Gay Organizations Convention held in Chicago in 1972

The proportions of heterosexual and homosexual pedophiles among sex... - PubMed - NCBI

Suicide and suicide risk in lesbian gay bisexual and transgender... - PubMed - NCBI

CDC Fact Sheet - Gay and Bisexual Men Gender Risk HIV AIDS

Sexual Behavior in Borderline Personality

Rates and predictors of mental illness in gay men lesbians and bis... - PubMed - NCBI

High prevalence of mental disorders and comorbidity in the Geneva G... - PubMed - NCBI


Sorry, these aren't normal people, they are mentally unbalanced and need psychological help, encouraging their anti-social behavior and discouraging them form treating their underlying mental illness not only hurts them but poisons the greater society.

 

[dblack]

Just because tha APA doesn't consider it a mental illness, doesn't make it so. As the video I linked showed, the one you ignored when you decided to make your ill informed post, shows that the decision to no longer classify homosexuality as a mental illness was a political decision, not a medical one made on a body of research or evidence. The APA caved to pressure from the political left and gay lobbyists. This isn't me saying it, this was the President of the APA, who was sympathetic to gay rights during the time period. He states that no evidence was provided when declassifying homosexuality as a mental illness.

You can call it homophobic crap, but it is the truth. Look at the 1972 gay rights platform, easily obtain on google, I'll link it here, or look at harvey milk or bryan singer's escapades with 14-15 year old boys. There is a strong proclivity towards pedophilia among homosexuals, this is just a fact, and it is borne out in study after study, along with proclivities towards other mental illnesses and anti-social behaviors like suicide, drug use, unsafe sex etc.

The 1972 Gay Rights Platform Platform created at the National Coalitionof Gay Organizations Convention held in Chicago in 1972

The proportions of heterosexual and homosexual pedophiles among sex... - PubMed - NCBI

Suicide and suicide risk in lesbian gay bisexual and transgender... - PubMed - NCBI

CDC Fact Sheet - Gay and Bisexual Men Gender Risk HIV AIDS

Sexual Behavior in Borderline Personality

Rates and predictors of mental illness in gay men lesbians and bis... - PubMed - NCBI

High prevalence of mental disorders and comorbidity in the Geneva G... - PubMed - NCBI


Sorry, these aren't normal people, they are mentally unbalanced and need psychological help, encouraging their anti-social behavior and discouraging them form treating their underlying mental illness not only hurts them but poisons the greater society.

Have you given much thought to what this kind of 'evidence' proves? You're providing statistical evidence correlating one 'anti-social' behavior with others. It's a little like associating alcohol consumption with other criminal activity during prohibition. I assume statistics for the period would show those who drank were more likely to be involved in other kinds of crime. But the reason for that is fairly obvious, and when alcohol was legalized, those statistics normalized.

Keeping homosexuals "in the closet", and branding them as "anti-social" by definition, pushes them into a community and a mindset that indulges criminal behavior in general. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy that pushes decent people into dark corners. And when that takes its toll, you want to use it as evidence that they should be pushed even harder. To me, that attitude is far sicker than what you're denouncing.

 

[Steinlight]

Just because tha APA doesn't consider it a mental illness, doesn't make it so. As the video I linked showed, the one you ignored when you decided to make your ill informed post, shows that the decision to no longer classify homosexuality as a mental illness was a political decision, not a medical one made on a body of research or evidence. The APA caved to pressure from the political left and gay lobbyists. This isn't me saying it, this was the President of the APA, who was sympathetic to gay rights during the time period. He states that no evidence was provided when declassifying homosexuality as a mental illness.

You can call it homophobic crap, but it is the truth. Look at the 1972 gay rights platform, easily obtain on google, I'll link it here, or look at harvey milk or bryan singer's escapades with 14-15 year old boys. There is a strong proclivity towards pedophilia among homosexuals, this is just a fact, and it is borne out in study after study, along with proclivities towards other mental illnesses and anti-social behaviors like suicide, drug use, unsafe sex etc.

The 1972 Gay Rights Platform Platform created at the National Coalitionof Gay Organizations Convention held in Chicago in 1972

The proportions of heterosexual and homosexual pedophiles among sex... - PubMed - NCBI

Suicide and suicide risk in lesbian gay bisexual and transgender... - PubMed - NCBI

CDC Fact Sheet - Gay and Bisexual Men Gender Risk HIV AIDS

Sexual Behavior in Borderline Personality

Rates and predictors of mental illness in gay men lesbians and bis... - PubMed - NCBI

High prevalence of mental disorders and comorbidity in the Geneva G... - PubMed - NCBI


Sorry, these aren't normal people, they are mentally unbalanced and need psychological help, encouraging their anti-social behavior and discouraging them form treating their underlying mental illness not only hurts them but poisons the greater society.

Have you given much thought to what this kind of 'evidence' proves? You're providing statistical evidence correlating one 'anti-social' behavior with others. It's a little like associating alcohol consumption with other criminal activity during prohibition. I assume statistics for the period would show those who drank were more likely to be involved in other kinds of crime. But the reason for that is fairly obvious, and when alcohol was legalized, those statistics normalized.

Keeping homosexuals "in the closet", and branding them as "anti-social" by definition, pushes them into a community and a mindset that indulges criminal behavior in general. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy that pushes decent people into dark corners. And when that takes its toll, you want to use it as evidence that they should be pushed even harder. To me, that attitude is far sicker than what you're denouncing.

You are getting it wrong, it is underlying mental illness that drives their homosexual and other anti-social behaviors for the most part, not the other way around.

Also, this idea that mental illness or anti-social behavior is caused by environmental factors like discrimination or persecution really has no basis in reality. The studies I offered were conducted around the western world, in places like Australia, Switzerland, the US, and I will link another in the Netherlands, all society that are either becoming increasingly liberal on the matter or were already liberal to begin with on the issue. To suggest for example that a gay man in the US is driven to sexual risk behavior which gives him an increased risk of AIDS because he might have to cross state lines to get married now is a rather lame argument, not one based in fact, but in wild and hopeful speculation on your part. You want to sweep this issue of homosexual mental illness under the rug because it undermines your secular egalitarian agenda.

Sexual Orientation and Mental and Physical Health Status Findings From a Dutch Population Survey

 

[dblack]

Just because tha APA doesn't consider it a mental illness, doesn't make it so. As the video I linked showed, the one you ignored when you decided to make your ill informed post, shows that the decision to no longer classify homosexuality as a mental illness was a political decision, not a medical one made on a body of research or evidence. The APA caved to pressure from the political left and gay lobbyists. This isn't me saying it, this was the President of the APA, who was sympathetic to gay rights during the time period. He states that no evidence was provided when declassifying homosexuality as a mental illness.

You can call it homophobic crap, but it is the truth. Look at the 1972 gay rights platform, easily obtain on google, I'll link it here, or look at harvey milk or bryan singer's escapades with 14-15 year old boys. There is a strong proclivity towards pedophilia among homosexuals, this is just a fact, and it is borne out in study after study, along with proclivities towards other mental illnesses and anti-social behaviors like suicide, drug use, unsafe sex etc.

The 1972 Gay Rights Platform Platform created at the National Coalitionof Gay Organizations Convention held in Chicago in 1972

The proportions of heterosexual and homosexual pedophiles among sex... - PubMed - NCBI

Suicide and suicide risk in lesbian gay bisexual and transgender... - PubMed - NCBI

CDC Fact Sheet - Gay and Bisexual Men Gender Risk HIV AIDS

Sexual Behavior in Borderline Personality

Rates and predictors of mental illness in gay men lesbians and bis... - PubMed - NCBI

High prevalence of mental disorders and comorbidity in the Geneva G... - PubMed - NCBI


Sorry, these aren't normal people, they are mentally unbalanced and need psychological help, encouraging their anti-social behavior and discouraging them form treating their underlying mental illness not only hurts them but poisons the greater society.

Have you given much thought to what this kind of 'evidence' proves? You're providing statistical evidence correlating one 'anti-social' behavior with others. It's a little like associating alcohol consumption with other criminal activity during prohibition. I assume statistics for the period would show those who drank were more likely to be involved in other kinds of crime. But the reason for that is fairly obvious, and when alcohol was legalized, those statistics normalized.

Keeping homosexuals "in the closet", and branding them as "anti-social" by definition, pushes them into a community and a mindset that indulges criminal behavior in general. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy that pushes decent people into dark corners. And when that takes its toll, you want to use it as evidence that they should be pushed even harder. To me, that attitude is far sicker than what you're denouncing.

You are getting it wrong, it is underlying mental illness that drives their homosexual and other anti-social behaviors for the most part, not the other way around.

Well, that's a matter of opinion. You'll have to come up with something more than a correlation to make the case.

To suggest for example that a gay man in the US is driven to sexual risk behavior which gives him an increased risk of AIDS because he might have to cross state lines to get married now is a rather lame argument, not one based in fact, but in wild and hopeful speculation on your part. You want to sweep this issue of homosexual mental illness under the rug because it undermines your secular egalitarian agenda.

I'm talking about the culture built up over the years where homosexuality was a serious social stigma. Where people were killed for 'coming out'. But even today, the experience of young gay people can be traumatizing. I don't see how you can ignore the difficulties of facing a society that decides for you that you are 'anti-social'. Are gays more susceptible to anti-social behavior because mainstream culture has traditionally marginalized them? Or are they marginalized because of innate anti-social behavior? That's a chicken-and-egg question that requires more than statistical correlation.

 

[ShackledNation]

I have read the thread. I'm glad you don't believe gays are all pedophiles. I'm glad you don't care that they marry. But you are still hugely ignorant about homosexuality if you believe it is a mental defect. Your tolerance of same-sex marriage does not excuse your bigotry and ignorance.

You admit that science can't tell us why some people are gay yet your call people who have a theory that you disagree with bigoted. That is ignorant sir, prove homosexuality isn't a menta disorder, then we'll talk.

No, that is not ignorant. Science has not definitively proven where homosexuality has come from, but that does not automatically make every theory potentially valid. For example, just because the jury is still out on homosexuality does that mean if I say gay people come from aliens I should be taken seriously? No. Your mental disorder argument is equally absurd.

The burden is on you to prove your idiotic claim, not on me to debunk. Good luck with that. In the meantime, chew on this.

"The APA has declared LBG as not a mental illness or disorder with no identifiable dissimilar psychopathology, as both heterosexual and homosexual behaviors are normal aspects of human sexuality" and that homosexuality is not a choice.

The APA could just as easily declare the Sun a perfect Vacation Destination. That doesn't make it so... .

Like you the APA is offering their subjective opinion.

The coolest part of all this is that it all boils down to reasoning... and reason dictates that given the absence of a genetics being responsible, that means that it's not genetics. It's not like the homo-lobby hasn't poured money on science to find a genetic indicator to no avail... so we know that if were possible to even fabricate such evidence that it would be so fabricated and you gals would be straight up authorized as legitimate Shims...

Therefore, we know that homosexuality is not even close enough to a genetic issue that it is not even possible to fabricate evidence that it is.

So... that leaves us with what we always knew... that homosexuality is a learned behavior. Wherein some 'caring adult' pursued a very young minor child, so young that the child is unable to communicate verbally, thus sufficiently young to have no memory of the crime.

But there, in the recess of their subconscious is the imprinted instructions that sexual arousal is directed toward whatever gender so lovingly cared for them way back when.

OH! And we should probably go back over the whole "proof" thing AGAIN:

Proof: evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement.

Now notice where it doesn't say that the 'evidence' or 'argument' doesn't need to convince you of anything... which is really good news for the argument, given that its impossible to convince a relativist of anything that does not serve their subjective needs... .

I'd listen to the opinion and research of some of the brightest scientists in America than your baseless assertions any day. There is numerous evidence that homosexuality is genetic or epigenetic. And there is zero evidence that it is a choice. Again, you just post a bunch of BS and ignore anything that contradicts your preexisting bias.

The better question is did you choose to have selective attention, or can you just not help it?

The bright minds you listen to are the one's that reaffirm your subjective needs. Such is the nature of the relativist.

What you don't seem to understand here is that I have no dog on this hunt. I could not care less who screws who, be they man or beast or man and beast.

As far as Im concerned if homosexuality had come up as a genetic thing, it would have made you folks a distinct gender; which Ive always coined as 'shim'. And as a gender, guess where that would place you? Square and centered in normal... .

But, as we both know, there is no genetic component in the sexually abnormal thang.

Now... pay close attention here, because we've been 450 pages getting to this little key rub:

That makes the problem "MENTAL". Meaning that despite what the APA homosexuals voted on, sexual abnormality is now what it has always been and THAT IS: A MENTAL DISORDER... One which is not at ALL distinct from Relativism... and Relativism enjoys perhaps one degree of separation from DELUSION.

Which you idiots are determined to NORMALIZE!

Now... as we look around our 'reality' we see debauchery and hedonism run amok... we see insanity... a mouthy minority screamin' to the top of their lungs: "DON'T JUDGE" "RULES DISCRIMINATE!" "DO FOR ME OR ELSE!" and "We have a right to screw whoever we want... even it means we have to murder our children!".

And isn't it the craziest of coincidence that those same individuals are consistently the one's who find no problem with men marrying men and woman marrying woman and both of those groups forcing others to celebrate that through the illicit use police powers, on the basis that ITS THE LAW.

This demonstrates a thorough disregard for what?

It's a complete disregard for REASON. But only the reason which defines the very foundation of this nation.

And THAT is what happens when one tries to NORMALIZE MENTAL ABNORMALITY... ya end up iving inside THE FAR SIDE CALENDAR!

Sexual orientation and gender are not the same thing...gay men are men. Gay women are women. Your refusal to acknowledge sexual orientation is your own problem. When I point to people who actual do this for a living, you just dismiss their work. You equivocate and insult, and have selective attention when it comes to scientific research. If a study supports your current beliefs, you support the study. If a study proves you wrong, well, it must be biased or invalid.

Meanwhile, you have nothing more than a string of irrational, baseless assertions.

 

[Syriusly]

No you fucking POS, homosexuality is not like the preference for little children that you keep promoting again and again and again and again and again on this board. Why don't you take your discussions about pedophilia and leave.

So let me get this straight, you are judging other sexual orientations as repugnant?

That's rich. And it's hypocrisy. Equal rights are blind, remember? That's what your group has been telling us since day one. Who are you to judge another man's physical pleasure? Unless you feel that if a majority objects to a certain sexual orientation, it has every right to?

Well?

Unlike you Silhouette- we understand the differences between consensual sex between adults- and the rape of a child.

Yes- I judge child rape as repugnant.

You see no difference between child rape, and adults having consensual sex.

Both homosexuality and pedophilia are mental illnesses.

Correction- pedophilia is a mental illness.

No medical organization considers homosexuality a mental illness.

Homosexuality was considered a mental illness for exactly 30 years- from 1952 through 1972 - and has not been considered a mental illness in the 40 years since.

The rest of your post is just the usual homophobic crap trying to call homosexuals pedophiles.

Just because tha APA doesn't consider it a mental illness, doesn't make it so..

So if the American Psychiatric Association doesn't consider it a mental illness- and the American Psychological Association doesn't consider it a disorder
The research on homosexuality is very clear. Homosexuality is neither mental illness nor moral depravity. It is simply the way a minority of our population expresses human love and sexuality. Study after study documents the mental health of gay men and lesbians. Studies of judgment, stability, reliability, and social and vocational adaptiveness all show that gay men and lesbians function every bit as well as heterosexuals.

Nor is homosexuality a matter of individual choice. Research suggests that the homosexual orientation is in place very early in the life cycle, possibly even before birth. It is found in about ten percent of the population, a figure which is surprisingly constant across cultures, irrespective of the different moral values and standards of a particular culture. Contrary to what some imply, the incidence of homosexuality in a population does not appear to change with new moral codes or social mores. Research findings suggest that efforts to repair homosexuals are nothing more than social prejudice garbed in psychological accouterments.

Who does consider it a mental disorder?

Not the American Counseling Association

The American Counseling Association has adopted a resolution that states that it: opposes portrayals of lesbian, gay, and bisexual youth and adults as mentally ill due to their sexual orientation

Not the CDC

Homosexuality is not a mental disorder, but homophobia, stigma, and discrimination have negative effects on the health of MSM, lesbians, and other sexual minorities.

Not the World Health Association

Not the British Royal College of Psychiatrists

The Royal College of Psychiatrists considers that sexual orientation is
determined by a combination of biological and postnatal environmental
factors.1–3 There is no evidence to go beyond this and impute any kind of
choice into the origins of sexual orientation.
The College wishes to clarify that homosexuality is not a psychiatric
disorder. In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association (APA) concluded
there was no scientifi c evidence that homosexuality was a disorder and
removed it from its diagnostic glossary of mental disorders. The International
Classifi cation of Diseases of the World Health Organization followed suit in
1992.

Not the Canadian Psychiatric Association

So none of the actual mental health professionals agree that being homosexual is a mental disorder- who should be listen to- you?

And your expertise is?

 

[Syriusly]

As the video I linked showed, the one you ignored when you decided to make your ill informed post, shows that the decision to no longer classify homosexuality as a mental illness was a political decision, not a medical one made on a body of research or evidence. .

There was never any body of research or evidence that supported putting homosexuality as a mental disorder in the DSM in the first place.

This is the very amusing hypocrisy that I have heard from Silhouette before "They didn't use science!"- because there was no science involved in calling homosexuality a mental disorder- so why does it bother you so much that there was no science to change their minds?

Not a mental disorder until 1952.
Mental disorder from 1952-1974 (32 years)
Not a mental disorder from 1974 (40 years)

Homosexuality went the same way as 'female hysteria' as a mental disorder.

 

[Syriusly]

or look at harvey milks..... escapades with 14-15 year old boys. .

I have looked into claims of such escapades....but I have found no evidence of such escapades except in the feverish imaginations of homophobes.

 

[Syriusly]

[
There is a strong proclivity towards pedophilia among homosexuals, this is just a fact, and it is borne out in study after studyy.

That is a claim often made- and never proven- by homophobes.

Fact: 90-98% of all child sexual molestation is by men.
Fact: 65% to 90% of all child molestation the victims are girls.
Fact: The majority of child sexual molestation is by a family member, or trusted family friend.

Your claims put children at risk.

Claiming that homosexuals are the pedophiles we need to worry about leaves actual pedophiles free to molest their victims- mostly girls- without scrutiny.

Homophobes endanger children.

 

[Silhouette]

I'm talking about the culture built up over the years where homosexuality was a serious social stigma. Where people were killed for 'coming out'. But even today, the experience of young gay people can be traumatizing. I don't see how you can ignore the difficulties of facing a society that decides for you that you are 'anti-social'. Are gays more susceptible to anti-social behavior because mainstream culture has traditionally marginalized them? Or are they marginalized because of innate anti-social behavior? That's a chicken-and-egg question that requires more than statistical correlation.

I knew a "young gay person" once who committed suicide the long way. So let me tell you a little bit about his trauma..

He was QUITE social with his gayness. And in that way he also murdered hundreds, possibly even thousands by the time he finished killing himself.

He was born normal and then molested by a man as a boy. This imprinted him to seek out compulsively [and very promiscuously, typical of child victims of molestation] males for sex. Meanwhile he kept falling in love with women. It was pure psychological torture. Predictably he contracted HIV from raw anonymous sex that is very typical of his type of "gay youth". To get even with those he perceived that created his angst, he continued to go out and have endless anonymous sex with as many partners as his strength would maintain until his body began wasting away with AIDS.

Back then he still could've gotten reparative therapy he so longed for his condition, and to heal the wounds of child abuse he suffered. Today however, if he was alive and at that young age again, he would be prohibited by law from doing so in the state where he lived [California]. But in that state no effort is spared to coax "closeted gays" or "bi-curious" youth from the hetero ranks.

Instead, he killed hundreds, maybe thousands before the gun ultimately turned on him. You all don't want to talk about how common this scenario [at least the compulsive imprinting part of it] is among "young gay men". And you sure don't want to discuss how at the root of any suicidal thoughts they might have, may be lingering suppressed toxic memories of events where they were assaulted/learned to "love" what was done to them as innocent boys.

Yet the CDC didn't fear this discussion. They did a survey. And here's the results they came up with:

ATLANTA [2005 Clinical Psychiatry News] -- Substance abuse is pervasive among gay men and is so intricately intertwined with epidemics of depression, partner abuse, and childhood sexual abuse that adequately addressing one issue requires attention to the others as well, said Ronald Stall, Ph.D., chief of prevention research for the division of HIV/AIDS prevention at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta...

 

[Syriusly]

I'm talking about the culture built up over the years where homosexuality was a serious social stigma. Where people were killed for 'coming out'. But even today, the experience of young gay people can be traumatizing. I don't see how you can ignore the difficulties of facing a society that decides for you that you are 'anti-social'. Are gays more susceptible to anti-social behavior because mainstream culture has traditionally marginalized them? Or are they marginalized because of innate anti-social behavior? That's a chicken-and-egg question that requires more than statistical correlation.

I knew a "young gay person" once who committed suicide the long way. So let me tell you a little bit about his trauma..

He was QUITE social with his gayness. And in that way he also murdered hundreds, possibly even thousands by the time he finished killing himself.

He was born normal and then molested by a man as a boy.]

Ah yes- your 'friend'- your 'friend' the serial killer.

And you know he was 'born normal' how?

I know quite a few gay men.

Not one of them molested as a child.

Not one of them a serial murderer.

Based upon the our differing experiences- how do we know that it was not your homophobia that pushed him over the edge to become a murderer?

Certainly none of my friends did.

 

[Syriusly]

[
Back then he still could've gotten reparative therapy he so longed for his condition, and to heal the wounds of child abuse he suffered.

If he so longed for 'reparative therapy'- why didn't he get it?

Why didn't he get the therapy for being molested?

As you said- there was nothing preventing him from seeking out and getting any quack 'reparative therapy' he wanted then- except either his inaction- or his families disapproval......

 

[Syriusly]

[ You all don't want to talk about how common this scenario [at least the compulsive imprinting part of it] is among "young gay men". And you sure don't want to discuss how at the root of any suicidal thoughts they might have, may be lingering suppressed toxic memories of events where they were assaulted/learned to "love" what was done to them as innocent boys.]

I don't give any credibility to your fairy tales- pun intended.

I fully support therapy for any child that has been molested- the difference between yourself and me is that I am in favor of therapy to deal with the molestation- you are only in favor of 'therapy' that will cure the gay.