Should Congress Build the Fence per Law?

[RKMBrown]

How many drug boats do you imagine manage to land on our shores without being detected, a few hundred a year? That would be a small fraction of the number need to smuggle the number of Mexicans that come across out boarder each year.

I used to fish alot off the florida east coast, we'd see tons of boats coming and going all the time. I was out there on vac. just a few months back. Once in a blue moon you see the coast guard but of the thousands of times that we went out and back I can only remember being boarded once by the coast guard and that was at the dock to check for life preservers and such. You do see the Guard's cutter from time to time and a few smaller boats but really they leave the small boats alone.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Didn't work for the E.Germans.

Ok- so let's not try :-0 -snort-

. To bad gun control is not viewed in the same light.

Snort? Are people determined to come here going to be stopped by a fence? Waste of money, better spent on fixing the reasons for why they come here in the first place.

It's not a waste of money if you build the fence, for the entire southwestern border of the United States, and then electrify the whole thing. Problem solved.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Hell, the Chinese managed to build a wall 13,000 miles long, what's so hard about a fence?

 

[RKMBrown]

Ok- so let's not try :-0 -snort-

. To bad gun control is not viewed in the same light.

Snort? Are people determined to come here going to be stopped by a fence? Waste of money, better spent on fixing the reasons for why they come here in the first place.

It's not a waste of money if you build the fence, for the entire southwestern border of the United States, and then electrify the whole thing. Problem solved.

Electric fences can't even keep cows in, what makes you think humans won't be able to circumvent an electric fence? Rubber mat? Ground out the fence? Cut in a bypass? What could be easier than overcoming an unmanned fence?

 

[RKMBrown]

Hell, the Chinese managed to build a wall 13,000 miles long, what's so hard about a fence?

Fences are easy to erect. But not nearly as easy as circumventing them.

 

[Erand7899]

Because it won't work. It is always a waste of money when you spend it on things that won't work.

How do you know it won't work. Fences keep criminals in prison.

It will only work if the govt allows it to work. If the dems want to keep buying votes by letting illegals in and setting them up as fraudulent voters, then you are correct.

A fence works in a prison because there are armed guards placed in such a manner that they can see every part of the fence at all times. You are talking about a fence almost 2,000 miles long - most of it in some extremely isolated terrain. How do you propose seeing every part of it at all times?

You don't have to see every part of it at all times. That is the purpose of surveillance cameras, and quick response teams. The fence just slows them down enough for the border patrol to arrive and arrest them.

All others who come in on visas, should be issued a card with a locator chip, and with a requirement to have that card on their person at all times that they are out and about. If they overstay their visa, or do not comply with the intent of the visa, a computer will alert the immigration officials, and they will be able to locate and apprehend the visitor through the locator chip.

A double fence at all dry crossings, and a single fence at the river, supported by border patrol and national guard troops, will stop the flood, and as that wanes, the effort can be cut back to just the border patrol.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Just like the stupid gun laws that exist on the books and don't work, so to goes immigration. Build the dam fence already.

With Senate Vote, Congress Passes Border Fence Bill

Enforcement first, then deal with those here.

What say you

-Geaux

They tried that in China, about 2,000 years ago. It didn't work. The Monguls simply bribed their way through. Those who do not know their history are condemned to repeat it.

 

[martybegan]

Just like the stupid gun laws that exist on the books and don't work, so to goes immigration. Build the dam fence already.

With Senate Vote, Congress Passes Border Fence Bill

Enforcement first, then deal with those here.

What say you

-Geaux

They tried that in China, about 2,000 years ago. It didn't work. The Monguls simply bribed their way through. Those who do not know their history are condemned to repeat it.

And yet during the Ming Dyansty in the 14th century it worked pretty well.

The Great Wall concept was revived again during the Ming Dynasty in the 14th century,[17] and following the Ming army's defeat by the Oirats in the Battle of Tumu. The Ming had failed to gain a clear upper hand over the Manchurian and Mongolian tribes after successive battles, and the long-drawn conflict was taking a toll on the empire. The Ming adopted a new strategy to keep the nomadic tribes out by constructing walls along the northern border of China. Acknowledging the Mongol control established in the Ordos Desert, the wall followed the desert's southern edge instead of incorporating the bend of the Huang He.

Unlike the earlier Qin fortifications, the Ming construction was stronger and more elaborate due to the use of bricks and stone instead of rammed earth. Up to 25,000 watchtowers are estimated to have been constructed on the wall.[18] As Mongol raids continued periodically over the years, the Ming devoted considerable resources to repair and reinforce the walls. Sections near the Ming capital of Beijing were especially strong.[19] Qi Jiguang between 1567 and 1570 also repaired and reinforced the wall, faced sections of the ram-earth wall with bricks and constructed 1,200 watchtowers from Shanhaiguan Pass to Changping to warn of approaching Mongol raiders.[20]

 

[RKMBrown]

How do you know it won't work. Fences keep criminals in prison.

It will only work if the govt allows it to work. If the dems want to keep buying votes by letting illegals in and setting them up as fraudulent voters, then you are correct.

A fence works in a prison because there are armed guards placed in such a manner that they can see every part of the fence at all times. You are talking about a fence almost 2,000 miles long - most of it in some extremely isolated terrain. How do you propose seeing every part of it at all times?

You don't have to see every part of it at all times. That is the purpose of surveillance cameras, and quick response teams. The fence just slows them down enough for the border patrol to arrive and arrest them.

All others who come in on visas, should be issued a card with a locator chip, and with a requirement to have that card on their person at all times that they are out and about. If they overstay their visa, or do not comply with the intent of the visa, a computer will alert the immigration officials, and they will be able to locate and apprehend the visitor through the locator chip.

A double fence at all dry crossings, and a single fence at the river, supported by border patrol and national guard troops, will stop the flood, and as that wanes, the effort can be cut back to just the border patrol.

Why wouldn't they just flush or smash the locator chip? Why wouldn't they avoid the patrol? Why wouldn't they distract the patrol or just send two groups at a time?

 

[bripat9643]

Snort? Are people determined to come here going to be stopped by a fence? Waste of money, better spent on fixing the reasons for why they come here in the first place.

It's not a waste of money if you build the fence, for the entire southwestern border of the United States, and then electrify the whole thing. Problem solved.

Electric fences can't even keep cows in, what makes you think humans won't be able to circumvent an electric fence? Rubber mat? Ground out the fence? Cut in a bypass? What could be easier than overcoming an unmanned fence?

Electric fences do keep the cows in. That's why ranchers build tens of thousands of miles of them. Your methods will only work if the wall isn't manned. If no one is looking, you can just dynamite the wall.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Snort? Are people determined to come here going to be stopped by a fence? Waste of money, better spent on fixing the reasons for why they come here in the first place.

It's not a waste of money if you build the fence, for the entire southwestern border of the United States, and then electrify the whole thing. Problem solved.

Electric fences can't even keep cows in, what makes you think humans won't be able to circumvent an electric fence? Rubber mat? Ground out the fence? Cut in a bypass? What could be easier than overcoming an unmanned fence?

Do you think illegals are capable of such sophisticated thinking? If you make the danger and risk to life and limb high enough, they wouldn't dare chance it, lest they'd prefer suicide. You can use sheet metal, not wire, that way all of the fence is electrified, you can install vibration sensors along the length as well, to detect such attempts to 'cut' through it. You can also install forward looking ground penetrating radar and infrared detection systems along the border also. You would also need small anti-Aircraft batteries for planes who refuse to identify themselves. You can have manned stations every 5 miles or so along the fence, with at minimum 630 checkpoints, with as many as 2000 agents with orders to fire warning shots upon sight, (and authorization to use deadly force after such warning is ignored) on patrol at all times. It isn't rocket science, buddy. Our politicians, and most certainly liberals are not capable of strategic thinking nowadays.

 

[RKMBrown]

It's not a waste of money if you build the fence, for the entire southwestern border of the United States, and then electrify the whole thing. Problem solved.

Electric fences can't even keep cows in, what makes you think humans won't be able to circumvent an electric fence? Rubber mat? Ground out the fence? Cut in a bypass? What could be easier than overcoming an unmanned fence?

Electric fences do keep the cows in. That's why ranchers build tens of thousands of miles of them. Your methods will only work if the wall isn't manned. If no one is looking, you can just dynamite the wall.

Yeah they build the fences, but no they are not 100% effective. The best neighbor is one in which you don't need a fence. The reason we need a fence is due to our welfare programs and the lack of enforcement of the law. Remove the welfare jail the criminals that hire them, jail the criminals when they get caught, put them on chain gangs, and we don't need a fence. In some areas you may only need a dozen or so guards per mile, that 3-4 guys for 3 shifts a day. In other areas that are harder to maintain you'll need double and triple that number maybe as much as a hundred guards per mile. Let's say we only need 20 per mile for maintaining and manning the fence. 20x2000 miles. That's 40000 employees at say 100k per year (50k for the job 50k for benefits) or 4b a year just for basic labor double that for your typical admin over head, add in another 10b a year for their equipment, 5b for utilities. That is roughly 25b a year or 250b in ten years as the CBO likes to measure things. I don't even want to touch what it's gonna cost to buy the land and build the fence. Are we really that upset over guys coming over for labor jobs that we'll spend that much money on a fence?

 

[DiamondDave]

Nothing is ever 100% effective

 

[TemplarKormac]

Nothing is ever 100% effective

That's where psychology comes in. Make the risk not worth taking.

 

[Redfish]

Electric fences can't even keep cows in, what makes you think humans won't be able to circumvent an electric fence? Rubber mat? Ground out the fence? Cut in a bypass? What could be easier than overcoming an unmanned fence?

Electric fences do keep the cows in. That's why ranchers build tens of thousands of miles of them. Your methods will only work if the wall isn't manned. If no one is looking, you can just dynamite the wall.

Yeah they build the fences, but no they are not 100% effective. The best neighbor is one in which you don't need a fence. The reason we need a fence is due to our welfare programs and the lack of enforcement of the law. Remove the welfare jail the criminals that hire them, jail the criminals when they get caught, put them on chain gangs, and we don't need a fence.

who in congress will ever vote to do those things? too many votes at stake.

 

[RKMBrown]

It's not a waste of money if you build the fence, for the entire southwestern border of the United States, and then electrify the whole thing. Problem solved.

Electric fences can't even keep cows in, what makes you think humans won't be able to circumvent an electric fence? Rubber mat? Ground out the fence? Cut in a bypass? What could be easier than overcoming an unmanned fence?

Do you think illegals are capable of such sophisticated thinking? If you make the danger and risk to life and limb high enough, they wouldn't dare chance it, lest they'd prefer suicide. You can use sheet metal, not wire, that way all of the fence is electrified, you can install vibration sensors along the length as well, to detect such attempts to 'cut' through it. You can also install forward looking ground penetrating radar and infrared detection systems along the border also. You would also need small anti-Aircraft batteries for planes who refuse to identify themselves. You can have manned stations every 5 miles or so along the fence, with at minimum 630 checkpoints, with as many as 2000 agents with orders to fire warning shots upon sight, (and authorization to use deadly force after such warning is ignored) on patrol at all times. It isn't rocket science, buddy. Our politicians, and most certainly liberals are not capable of strategic thinking nowadays.

Well yeah, if we are willing to start shooting at anyone within a mile of the border then all bets are off. You could end the illegal immigration in a heartbeat that way. But if they know it's just a warning shot they will just adapt and ignore them. I don't think we are willing as a country to start shooting at laborers who are trying to cross the border illegally. Thus, because we are not willing to do so they can just line up and all cross at the same time. The ones that get caught can just turn around and try again the next night.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Just like the stupid gun laws that exist on the books and don't work, so to goes immigration. Build the dam fence already.

With Senate Vote, Congress Passes Border Fence Bill

Enforcement first, then deal with those here.

What say you

-Geaux

Dems said if illegals were given amnesty they would secure the border.

They said that in the 80's, to Reagan.

They are far passed overdue for keeping their word.

 

[RKMBrown]

Nothing is ever 100% effective

That's where psychology comes in. Make the risk not worth taking.

What makes you think we'll ever elect a president who would give orders to shoot down illegal democrats, err, I mean illegal laborers for republican farms, err. I mean illegal immigrants?

 

[Two Thumbs]

Nothing is ever 100% effective

That's where psychology comes in. Make the risk not worth taking.

What makes you think we'll ever elect a president who would give orders to shoot down illegal democrats, err, I mean illegal laborers for republican farms, err. I mean illegal immigrants?

we can't even arrest minor drug smugglers, so....

 

[OKTexas]

The law directs the administration to build the fence, as usual it's the regime that is ignoring the law.