Should Detroit's municipal retirees lose their pensions?

[bucs90]

Work 35 years and have your pension pulled

Republican version of the American Dream

Its quite sad that some Republicans are acutally HAPPY and in a cheerful mood about this.

Like they are relishing the hardships those people are going through, just out of ideological spite.

For decades, the people did not want to pay government employees high salaries. Its why cops, firemen, teachers and military members make modest pay, BUT, have great benefits. They get mediocre pay in exchange for great perks and job security and stability.

So, when the economy is booming, govt folks wont get rich, but the private folks MIGHT.

And in bad times, the govt folks will be stable, and the private folks may hurt.

Thats the tradeoff.

Until now.

Now, they want cops, firemen, teachers and military members to take less money, get fewer perks and benefits, BUT, to keep doing the same thankless job and not complain.

 

[bucs90]

The answer is easy to me.

A government working losing his pension is just like someone who retired with a private company, but the company then goes bankrupt. They both lose it.

BUT.....nationwide, for decades, cities, states, counties have gotten away with paying their cops, firemen, teachers relatively little....and in some cases downright bad pay......by promising these perks and pensions. The South Carolina State Troopers up until a few years ago started their troopers at $25,000 a year. Yes, what you could make at McDonalds, but, they offered a great retirement at SCHP.


So, basically, eliminate ALL promises of a retirement or pension to government employees. ALL of them, at all levels of government. State, county, city, federal. NO more retirement.

BUT, adjust their pay to compensate for that. Pay them what they'd need to earn to save and set aside for their own retirement. If they dont save wisely then its on them. But at least these government wouldnt be able to get away with making these promises, paying shitty pay, and then screwing the working man over 20 years later.

 

[bucs90]

OR....we can just say all government workers will be compensated poorly, on par with a fast food worker, with mediocre benefits, NO pension or retirement, no special perks.

Basically 25K starting pay, no retirement, very average benefits, very little upward mobility or high earning potential.

Then we can wonder how so many shitty people got government jobs, and how even MORE government agencies are running like shit, providing shitty service, are full of corruption, etc, etc, etc. Because if you look past the ones that are like that now, you'll find hundreds of GOOD government agencies who run just fine and do great work at the state, county, city levels.

But hey, maybe we can gut the last few good employees out of all government!

 

[Wildman]

Work 35 years and have your pension pulled

Republican version of the American Dream

typical liarberal, pushing the blame off on the Republican party when it was the democRATS running Detroit into the sludge pit for those 35 years and those sheeple most likely voted for the assholes who are now enjoying their largesse.., if it means anything, i truly pity them....., sheeple that is

 

[Wildman]

Lots of talk about doing that and i say go for it. These were all affirmative action hires and didn't deserve the job in the first place.

It's not that anyone should lose anything. It's solely the fault of those responsible for safekeeping the pension funds. When union leaders and politicians make promises they can't keep, people don't get what was promised.

It's not fair that people should lose something they were promised and worked for, though when it comes to relying on public funding, you have to ask how fair it is for politicians and unions to make such sweet deals with the tax payer money that has yet to be made. They sure are generous with other peoples' money and they reap the rewards until it runs out.

I am betting that Detroit officials will ask for a bail out and I'm sure the liberals in Washington will again be generous with our money. And if the bail out isn't granted, then the liberals will tell the retirees and public workers that it's all the Republicans' fault.

It's the fault of those who were playing hard and fast with money that the tax payers would make in the future. I think tax payers should have a little more say in how their hard earned money is spent after it's confiscated from them. I am tired of public unions and politicians who see our earnings as their slush fund and they spend billions without thought.

The liberals have been pushing for socialism and redistributing our money. They blast the wealthy, all the while offering generous bonuses, perks and lifetime benefits to their buddies. Somehow, they find it more noble to be a taker than a giver. No one should be a keeper, according to them. It's only a matter of time before they dip into our savings. They've already spent the Social Security money, they are lusting after our 401Ks and the last will be our nest eggs that we've built over decades.

Meanwhile, they will blame anyone or anything but themselves for the greed in Detroit that led to it's downfall. They chased tax payers away by continually taking more and more to fund their big promises, while letting neighborhoods go to shit. Unions and politicians lived high on the hog on the backs of the little people. The welfare dependents grew while the tax payer base shrunk.

It is totally the fault of the liberals that this happened and we should not bail them out. I am sorry for those who were foolish enough to take jobs in a place that was going to shit and expecting to actually collect.

It's not fair that people should lose something they were promised and worked for,

Ms. Clementine, i gave 25 years of my life to the people and this country i love so very much.., do you have any idea how many benefits i have lost or had modified since that very first promise ?

so.., please, do not give me this, "it ain't FAIR", these people are losing their "benefits" due to a little inept city .gov............, my benefits were promised to me by the greatest nation on Earth......, which GIVES billion$ upon billion$ of $$$$$$$$ to foreign countries who then in return kill our ambassadors and security personnel, drag our dead soldiers thru their slums and rat infested streets.

that's all, it makes me sick thinking about it

 

[Harry Dresden]

Take away elderlies pensions? Hmm, I'd like to see you end up as many of them would, on the streets, with cardboard signs and hungry.

It's not about taking away their pensions. The money is not there. So the issue is whether money should be taken from other taxpayers and given to these retirees.

if you did not do nothing about it in the 70's,80;s 90's or 10 years ago.....then the people that worked all those years in good faith deserve what was said they would get when they started 30-40 years ago...

 

[Harry Dresden]

Take away elderlies pensions? Hmm, I'd like to see you end up as many of them would, on the streets, with cardboard signs and hungry.

It's not about taking away their pensions. The money is not there. So the issue is whether money should be taken from other taxpayers and given to these retirees.

Well, I see it this way. Detroit made promises to its retirees that it could not keep. So instead of telling them to tighten their belts and quit complaining, they caved in to their will. And, instead of funding the things they need to fund, instead of helping fund their first responders, and their men in blue, or something to improve their horrendous infrastructure (believe me, everyone's seen the pictures)... they funded the greed and avarice of its retirees. So, it's a circle of death basically.

the greed and avarice?.....lets see what you say templar when some kid your age tells you when you are in your 60's that you are a greedy fuck and dont deserve what you just worked 30 years to get.....back 30 years ago when those guys were your age and was offered a govt job.....everyone said to them.....hey thats great, good pay, good benefits, job security .....good going.....now they are greedy fucks.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Take away elderlies pensions? Hmm, I'd like to see you end up as many of them would, on the streets, with cardboard signs and hungry.

Did it ever occur to you that retirees aren't the only ones living in Detroit? Their pensions are putting people out of work. How ironic is that?

thats not the retirees fault.....its the piss poor managers running the city.....are they still getting a pension for their great work?....

 

[Harry Dresden]

[

It is totally the fault of the liberals that this happened and we should not bail them out. I am sorry for those who were foolish enough to take jobs in a place that was going to shit and expecting to actually collect.

Govt workers need to realize that when you work in a city that is mostly black and is run by blacks, then the city is gonna collapse. Blacks can't do anything right outside of sports.

why dont you get drunk and try and give yourself a blowjob......maybe it will shut your racist mouth up for a while.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Lots of talk about doing that and i say go for it. These were all affirmative action hires and didn't deserve the job in the first place.

It's not that anyone should lose anything. It's solely the fault of those responsible for safekeeping the pension funds. When union leaders and politicians make promises they can't keep, people don't get what was promised.

It's not fair that people should lose something they were promised and worked for, though when it comes to relying on public funding, you have to ask how fair it is for politicians and unions to make such sweet deals with the tax payer money that has yet to be made. They sure are generous with other peoples' money and they reap the rewards until it runs out.

I am betting that Detroit officials will ask for a bail out and I'm sure the liberals in Washington will again be generous with our money. And if the bail out isn't granted, then the liberals will tell the retirees and public workers that it's all the Republicans' fault.

It's the fault of those who were playing hard and fast with money that the tax payers would make in the future. I think tax payers should have a little more say in how their hard earned money is spent after it's confiscated from them. I am tired of public unions and politicians who see our earnings as their slush fund and they spend billions without thought.

The liberals have been pushing for socialism and redistributing our money. They blast the wealthy, all the while offering generous bonuses, perks and lifetime benefits to their buddies. Somehow, they find it more noble to be a taker than a giver. No one should be a keeper, according to them. It's only a matter of time before they dip into our savings. They've already spent the Social Security money, they are lusting after our 401Ks and the last will be our nest eggs that we've built over decades.

Meanwhile, they will blame anyone or anything but themselves for the greed in Detroit that led to it's downfall. They chased tax payers away by continually taking more and more to fund their big promises, while letting neighborhoods go to shit. Unions and politicians lived high on the hog on the backs of the little people. The welfare dependents grew while the tax payer base shrunk.

It is totally the fault of the liberals that this happened and we should not bail them out. I am sorry for those who were foolish enough to take jobs in a place that was going to shit and expecting to actually collect.

It's not fair that people should lose something they were promised and worked for,

Ms. Clementine, i gave 25 years of my life to the people and this country i love so very much.., do you have any idea how many benefits i have lost or had modified since that very first promise ?

so.., please, do not give me this, "it ain't FAIR", these people are losing their "benefits" due to a little inept city .gov............, my benefits were promised to me by the greatest nation on Earth......, which GIVES billion$ upon billion$ of $$$$$$$$ to foreign countries who then in return kill our ambassadors and security personnel, drag our dead soldiers thru their slums and rat infested streets.

that's all, it makes me sick thinking about it

and that is one of the reasons things suck here.....fuck those other shitholes....those billions should be spent here on Americans......not on Countries who are going to spit in our fucking faces no matter what we do for them.........

 

[JohnA]

what makes you think anyone is happy about any of this?


understanding the problem, and dealing with..... *gasp* ...reality..... is not "happy" any of this is happening.

I feel very sorry for them.... but the free ride is over. They need to deal with that.

Thats the point their ride wasn't free. They worked for their pension. You know who is getting a free ride? Politicians and union executives.[/QUOTE


they made their own bed now they have to lay on it


they worked for an inflated union voted in or we are going to strike pension.... which is no longer feasible to pay.


oh... they were very happy when they voted in said politicians and union demands for more free benefits.....

 

[JohnA]

Bullshit....the UAW got safe working condiitions, training programs so a guy on the line could learn multiple skills, and yeah, make a decent living so he could buy his own house and send his kids to college. That's how it's supposed to work in the USA. If you've never walked through the gate into an auto plant every morning for years, you have no business talking shit about the UAW.

can you walk into an auto and work..... and NOT be a paying union member?

And steal the wage the union guys bargained for? yeah, if you're a stinkin SCAB you can do that. And remember this; the assembly-plants (not mfg plants) the japs have here were built with taxpayer dollars, not company money. And the non-union wages there are only good as long as the UAW gets a fair wage from Detroit. UAW goes under, those boys down in Arkansas and Alabama are gonna get cut big time....

You union-haters should remember if Henry Ford hadn't ordered his Pinkertons to shoot at striking auto-workers, the unions wouldn't have had to go to the Italians for protection. That had strings attached...it's the rackets boys who are behind the dirty unions, not the workers.

Steal what union wages ??
the wages the unions bargained for on behalf of their members from the company is a agreement between them and the company .

if i go to work for a auto maker and they offer me a wage (whether if be the same or more than the union dickheads get ) thats between me and the company not the unions business .
trouble with the unions is they think they own ..
i have a RIGHT to bargain for my own wage/ benefits

 

[thanatos144]

There is a lot of misery coming down the pike for Michigan that was caused by democrats and commie union greed. Unlike many I take no joy in it. I was born in Michigan. I lived a great amount of my life there. You find it hard pressed to find a place as beautiful as Michigan......Then you have Detroit....When people think ghetto Detroit is what they see. Men and women who have for years worked hard for Detroit are going to lose everything. For what? Because some Unions wanted more member fees? So some fat ass criminal like Qwami Kilpatrick can get elected? We might not keep our word about these pension But we will still end up paying for them some way.....A real conservative doesnt take enjoyment in the motor city falling. This isnt good for the USA. Yet maybe it is needed to get the country running on the strait and narrow. But I say to all you assholes celebrating the fall of this great city....Smile all you can cause this virus will be coming your way as well. will others celebrate your fall?

 

[Steven_R]

Take away elderlies pensions? Hmm, I'd like to see you end up as many of them would, on the streets, with cardboard signs and hungry.

It's not about taking away their pensions. The money is not there. So the issue is whether money should be taken from other taxpayers and given to these retirees.

if you did not do nothing about it in the 70's,80;s 90's or 10 years ago.....then the people that worked all those years in good faith deserve what was said they would get when they started 30-40 years ago...

Many of the people who made those promises are dead. It's no longer their problem. When private companies go bankrupt, pensions get lost. They were promised too, but if the money isn't there anymore, then the money isn't there. It sucks, but the fact remains there is no money to pay those pensions. Why should public employees get a better deal than their private counterparts?

 

[thanatos144]

It's not about taking away their pensions. The money is not there. So the issue is whether money should be taken from other taxpayers and given to these retirees.

if you did not do nothing about it in the 70's,80;s 90's or 10 years ago.....then the people that worked all those years in good faith deserve what was said they would get when they started 30-40 years ago...

Many of the people who made those promises are dead. It's no longer their problem. When private companies go bankrupt, pensions get lost. They were promised too, but if the money isn't there anymore, then the money isn't there. It sucks, but the fact remains there is no money to pay those pensions. Why should public employees get a better deal than their private counterparts?

I guess your mother didn't teach you about honoring your commitments huh?>

 

[Steven_R]

She taught me that I can't write checks when there is no money in the bank.

 

[thanatos144]

She taught me that I can't write checks when there is no money in the bank.

Yet the money was there when the commitment was made.....

 

[Steven_R]

It's not there now, regardless of what long dead politicians promised.

 

[thanatos144]

It's not there now, regardless of what long dead politicians promised.

Because they used Our names and our word to make them. Ether you honor your word or be forever known as untrustworthy/.

 

[TemplarKormac]

It's not about taking away their pensions. The money is not there. So the issue is whether money should be taken from other taxpayers and given to these retirees.

Well, I see it this way. Detroit made promises to its retirees that it could not keep. So instead of telling them to tighten their belts and quit complaining, they caved in to their will. And, instead of funding the things they need to fund, instead of helping fund their first responders, and their men in blue, or something to improve their horrendous infrastructure (believe me, everyone's seen the pictures)... they funded the greed and avarice of its retirees. So, it's a circle of death basically.

the greed and avarice?.....lets see what you say templar when some kid your age tells you when you are in your 60's that you are a greedy fuck and dont deserve what you just worked 30 years to get.....back 30 years ago when those guys were your age and was offered a govt job.....everyone said to them.....hey thats great, good pay, good benefits, job security .....good going.....now they are greedy fucks.....

Hey, if they aren't willing to help their city out of the doldrums... what else do I call it Harry? If they are unwilling to make some sort of sacrifice to save the city they worked for, then what is it called? Greed and avarice. There is no other way to describe it. Okay, let me put it more succinctly.

My Grandmother is a retiree. She worked at UGA fron 1969 to 2003. Thirty-four years. She has a pension. BUT, she is and has made it clear that she would be willing to take a hit if the city she lived in were bankrupt and needed some way of recovering from it. I know, I know, a retiree should not have to pay for the mistakes of the city.

But something has to give correct? Either the city collapses under its own debt or you agree to take a cut in your pension check. Your city is $18 billion underwater. What about the other people who live there? Should they have to suffer for your unwillingness to compromise? Those are hard questions, and I know you have to live on that check. But the future of your home, your community, and your city depend on it (in this fictional scenario at least). Why such a terse reaction to such a sacrifice? Would you be willing to help pull your city out of the grave?

A man can take a bullet for his country, or for his family, but he he won't take a hit in his pension to save his hometown. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that is incredibly sad.