Should Detroit's municipal retirees lose their pensions?

[JoeBlam]

Let me first say that I have no remorse, no sad momentary thoughts of how terrible it is that Detroit is bankrupt, both fiscally and morally. Detroit put ITSELF in this position. It has not had a fiscally responsible mayor since 1961. For the past 20 years, those with the knowledge have been warning of this occurrance like an oncoming train, yet the people who were in charge in Detroit did not want to listen, instead being concerned with 'getting their own'. Have you ever listened to some of the audio from Detroit city council meetings? Have you ever heard about how they talk about absolute CRAP (naming a tunnel) over and over and fail to even consider hard decisions? Does the name Kwame Kilpatrick ring a bell? John Conyers?

I heard a clip of a Detroit City Councilwoman talking about how the Federal Government should bail out Detroit. Let me absolutely clear about this: I have already contacted my Senators and Congressmen and advised that I would be VEHEMENTLY AGAINST bailing out Detroit in any fashion. Detroit made the bed it now has to lie in. Detroit, perhaps the State of Michigan, should be responsible for cleaning up the mess.

It was not the Automobile industry or any other business that left Detroit in the position that it finds itself currently facing. It was the lack of responsible leadership that tried to feather its own political bed with sweetheart deals for labor unions that they can now ill afford. It is the retired and union membership that will now pay for earlier collusion with city officials.

If you want to see what unopposed liberalism will get you, look at Detroit. Good job Democrats...

Bullshit. Refurbish and reopen the factories and we'll see who eats crow.

 

[JoeBlam]

Is Detroit unique? Only in that the blacks burned down their own neighborhoods and ran thousands of whites out of town. Other than that, Detroit isn't unique at all.

What do you mean "only?". Blacks are the whole problem in detroit. When a city is 90% blacks who can't read or do third grade arithmetic, collapse is inevitable.

Oh okay....and you know this how? By all the blacks you know in Detroit? STFU ya racist mutt.

 

[Darkwind]

Since the City of Detroit has been under the management of the DNC for decades, I propose that they fund the pensions of that city. Then, once the pension funds are 100% funded, the State of Michigan should pass legislation forcing all municipal retirement plans into a private market retirement account (one in which no politician can touch).

It it beyond time to hold political parties responsible for their policies.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

To get a feel for what this particular hell is like, you should read Charlie LeDuff's Detroit: An American Autopsy. LeDuff is a reporter who left the New York Times for the Detroit News and left the News when an editor took all the good stuff out of a story on a local judge. He's now a reporter for Fox 2 and you can get an idea of his personal style by watching his clips on YouTube. Detroit is a personal story for him: he grew up in the not-affluent suburb of Westland (named after a shopping center, as he notes) with a divorced mother who ran a florist shop on the east side of Detroit but who couldn't keep her children from dire fates. A daughter who became a streetwalker and died violently left behind her own daughter who would overdose on heroin. Three of LeDuff's brothers are working at just-above-minimum-wage jobs or not working at all (one pulled out a tooth with pliers). Charlie was lucky. He went into "the most natural thing for a man with no real talent. Journalism."

I'm reading that book right now and it's pretty good though charlie so far ( i'm 80% thru the book) hasn't come out and said that the real problem is the city is almost entirely black.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Work 35 years and have your pension pulled

Republican version of the American Dream

They shouldn't get preferred treatment at the first place.

They will still get Social Security.

I don't think SS will be around much longer. If it is payments will be greatly reduced. All the politicians have done what they did in detroit. Promise the voters freebies knowing that someone in the distant future will pay the bill.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I did.

But there was only Fifteen Thousand of us.

Five thousand others also had individual contracts. The other 60,000 employees didn't get contracts.

Engineers and other professionals at a Company like Ford likely have contracts.

If for no other reason than to protect themselves (the Company). Non-Compete clauses, non-disclosure agreements, etc.

And you can't have a unilateral contract. Wouldn't hold up in Court for ten seconds. IOW, if you wanna get, you gotta give.
You really aren't very aware of the 'real' world, are you?

oh fuck you....you talk like your shit dont stink and everyone elses does.....hey i got news for you....your shit stinks just as bad as everyone elses...maybe its you who isnt aware of reality.....

and people like you are the reasons Republicans come off as the heartless basterds the Democrats portray you as......you try to say you care about those people but yet when you talk it comes out....FUCK EM.....why dont you just be honest and just say you dont give a fuck about anyone but your shit dont stink self....at least then i would have a little respect for ya....

 

[ShootSpeeders]

If you want to see what unopposed liberalism will get you, look at Detroit. Good job Democrats...

Or look at CA. Socialism has never worked.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[

What do you mean "only?". Blacks are the whole problem in detroit. When a city is 90% blacks who can't read or do third grade arithmetic, collapse is inevitable.

Oh okay....and you know this how? By all the blacks you know in Detroit? STFU ya racist mutt.

You're the racist since you support affirmative action which got detroit into this mess. They handed out all these govt jobs to unqualified blacks who can't even read so naturally the city has collapsed. think

 

[Ame®icano]

I'm a native Detroiter yet I can't fight that hard for my hometown because I got the hell out of there in 1973 to live out my dream to be a cowboy out in Arizona. Whipped Larry Mahan in an arm-wrestling contest during Rodeo Days in Prescott and he was King of the Cowboys so there ya go...mission accomplished.

The way it stands now is the retirees have 6 months of continuing benefits coming as fair warning there will be cuts. These aren't "affirmative action" hires....most of these guys are former cops and firemen....cutting their pensions is a shit-bird trick and I'm opposed to it. Other retirees will have to face the music if it comes to that. A good idea I heard is for metro-Detroit proper to start selling off land on the cheap to raise money and reduce the need for far-ranging services.......it's a HUGE city landwise.....so sell as much land as you can to surrounding suburbs and everybody comes out ahead.

Some times ago there was proposal from group of rich libertarians buy the Detroit park Belle Isle for $1 billion and turn it into a lightly-regulated capitalist wonderland. Macau of Michigan. Since 60% of city parks are closed anyways due to lack of funds, this wouldn't be bad idea, at least it would close budget holes for couple of years.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Once again, you can blame the blacks, you can blame the democrats, you can blame the unions until Hell freezes over but you better blame the companies who moved offshore and took our JOBS with them. Everything that was promised in Detroit and many other cities, was based on a continuing tax revenue from workers....with jobs. Is Detroit unique? Only in that the blacks burned down their own neighborhoods and ran thousands of whites out of town. Other than that, Detroit isn't unique at all. I read this morning CHICAGO is on the ropes. What kind of shape do you suppose Cleveleand is in? Pittsburgh moved away from steel and has apparently saved themselves by becoming a regional center for various services.....so good for them. LA is toast. Only overbearing tax-loads are saving the eastern cities. So like Thanatos144 says, don't do any victory jigs about Detroit.....there are several cities who made promises in good times made lousy by companies who abandoned the cities that made them great.

It has nothing to do with companies moving off shore. Detroit was losing population. It was getting smaller with a smaller tax base. Instead of dealing with the realities of a smaller population, Detroit's city budget got bigger. Much of the government expenditures were for legacy benefits. As the city got smaller, the pensions got bigger.

I've heard about enough out of you....you're a humorless drone...you never laugh or make anybody laugh. You're a lawyer according to you which might explain why you're an anal-retentive who picks fights because you can't get along with anybody. I'm FROM Detroit...are you? If not, just STFU....you don't know your ass from up about Detroit.

Katz claims she is from my State yet she posts shit about things here that have you going.....what the fuck are you talking about......her story about the city of Santa Ana was a classic.....her tales of the Evils of Pot will have you laughing if you want to laugh....

 

[martybegan]

oh fuck you....you talk like your shit dont stink and everyone elses does.....hey i got news for you....your shit stinks just as bad as everyone elses...maybe its you who isnt aware of reality.....

and people like you are the reasons Republicans come off as the heartless basterds the Democrats portray you as......you try to say you care about those people but yet when you talk it comes out....FUCK EM.....why dont you just be honest and just say you dont give a fuck about anyone but your shit dont stink self....at least then i would have a little respect for ya....

No, we just realize that actions have consequences, and consequences should not be bailed out by big daddy government in this case.

 

[bripat9643]

Lots of talk about doing that and i say go for it. These were all affirmative action hires and didn't deserve the job in the first place.

The question is, who is going to pay them? I certainly don't feel obligated to make good on the promises sleazy Detroit politicians made.

 

[Edgetho]

oh fuck you....you talk like your shit dont stink and everyone elses does.....hey i got news for you....your shit stinks just as bad as everyone elses...maybe its you who isnt aware of reality.....

and people like you are the reasons Republicans come off as the heartless basterds the Democrats portray you as......you try to say you care about those people but yet when you talk it comes out....FUCK EM.....why dont you just be honest and just say you dont give a fuck about anyone but your shit dont stink self....at least then i would have a little respect for ya....

Where did I ever say I care about those people?

Read my posts, moron. I couldn't give a fuck less about those thieving dirtbags.

I've said it time and again; they aren't victims, they're accomplices, co-conspirators, they drove the get-away car while the dimocrap scum politicians and the Union thugs were robbing the hard-working people of Dee-Troit blind.

Their payoff was in the form of bloated paychecks and ridiculous pensions and benefits.

As to caring about myself? Yes, but not enough to STEAL from hard-working Americans.

That is what dimorap scum do. They steal money from people who work for it and give it to people who vote dimocrap.

Like you. Which part of the gubmint teat are you suckling from?

 

[bripat9643]

Work 35 years and have your pension pulled

Republican version of the American Dream

Feel free to make up the difference from your personal funds.

 

[bripat9643]

So let me get this right.....Many of you feel it is a good thing for retired people to lose pensions promised to them from their employers namely us? Are we going to start doing this to soldiers and police and firemen?

At what point is our word still good?

I didn't promise them jack shit. Let the taxpayers of Detroit make up the difference in their pensions.

 

[Ame®icano]

I am saying the STATE needs to pay its obligations. I am not saying the country needs to bail out Detroit.... It is lost . this isn't a federal issue but it is a state one. things will now have to change....We are seeing the end of unions. That is the ONLY good thing about this.

the state did not make these promises..... Detroit did.

Why should the entire state have to pay for the mistakes of Detroit?

It doesn't matter it is still a state responsibility.

No it's not. State didn't gave keys of city treasury to unions, State did not elected city officials. People of Detroit did.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Let me first say that I have no remorse, no sad momentary thoughts of how terrible it is that Detroit is bankrupt, both fiscally and morally. Detroit put ITSELF in this position. It has not had a fiscally responsible mayor since 1961. For the past 20 years, those with the knowledge have been warning of this occurrance like an oncoming train, yet the people who were in charge in Detroit did not want to listen, instead being concerned with 'getting their own'. Have you ever listened to some of the audio from Detroit city council meetings? Have you ever heard about how they talk about absolute CRAP (naming a tunnel) over and over and fail to even consider hard decisions? Does the name Kwame Kilpatrick ring a bell? John Conyers?

I heard a clip of a Detroit City Councilwoman talking about how the Federal Government should bail out Detroit. Let me absolutely clear about this: I have already contacted my Senators and Congressmen and advised that I would be VEHEMENTLY AGAINST bailing out Detroit in any fashion. Detroit made the bed it now has to lie in. Detroit, perhaps the State of Michigan, should be responsible for cleaning up the mess.

It was not the Automobile industry or any other business that left Detroit in the position that it finds itself currently facing. It was the lack of responsible leadership that tried to feather its own political bed with sweetheart deals for labor unions that they can now ill afford. It is the retired and union membership that will now pay for earlier collusion with city officials.

If you want to see what unopposed liberalism will get you, look at Detroit. Good job Democrats...

Bullshit. Refurbish and reopen the factories and we'll see who eats crow.

anybody can make cars today.....that's why outsourcing happens in any business.....they can be made easily and cheaper elsewhere....and the Japanese were certainly masters at it...

unless the factories create something brand new it is highly doubtful the auto business will ever go back to its glory days....

Detroit failed to encourage entrepreneurs and other businesses to succeed and therefore contracted just like the auto business instead of expanding new horizons...

 

[Hum Dinger]

"A Deal is a Deal".

If the city of Detroit made an employment agreement with these workers that guaranteed a certain pension, then the city should not be allowed to welch on that deal.

The principal that contracts must be honored is a cornerstone of any free enterprise system.

It's incredible that conservatives believe the very principals that make capitalism possible are not applicable to working class people.

 

[Edgetho]

So let me get this right.....Many of you feel it is a good thing for retired people to lose pensions promised to them from their employers namely us? Are we going to start doing this to soldiers and police and firemen?

At what point is our word still good?

I didn't promise them jack shit. Let the taxpayers of Detroit make up the difference in their pensions.

Neither I, nor any government that represents me, promised those people anything.

Anybody that makes promises they have no intention of keeping, anybody that writes checks KNOWING there aren't enough funds to cover them.....

That's criminal. There is no implied promise, no binding covenant in a criminal act.

None.

And nobody has any right to expect promises stemming from a criminal act to be honored

 

[Edgetho]

"A Deal is a Deal".

If the city of Detroit made an employment agreement with these workers that guaranteed a certain pension, then the city should not be allowed to welch on that deal.

The principal that contracts must be honored is a cornerstone of any free enterprise system.

It's incredible that conservatives believe the very principals that make capitalism possible are not applicable to working class people.

I just promised my Wife that she could buy a new car with YOUR Money. We buy nothing but Fords (American Made).

Send me the check.

Now.

About $40k should cover it