Should Detroit's municipal retirees lose their pensions?

[Harry Dresden]

They were not properly contribtuing into thier pension funds, and the politicans were not providing enough funding at the time to cover the future costs.

The stealing is on the part of the politican who KNEW this was going to happen 20 years down the road.

but at the same time that Fireman did what he was asked to do in good faith for 30 years....he wasnt stealing no ones money....

The beneficiary of a crime, even if blameless, is still benefiting from a crime. This isnt exactly a crime, but it was a scam, a scam whos end result is finally here.

Said fireman also voted in those union leaders, and also those politicans supported by the union leaders. Ignorance of economics does not result in blamelessness.

so Marty.....you have worked for a place for 30 years,you are in your 60's and you are ready to hang it up.....then someone says sorry you dont get your pension.....do you just shrug and say.....oh no biggie.....i am 63.....in sure i can find a job....you know what Marty.....you work for a fucking place for 30 fucking years in good faith....10 years in no problems....15 years in no problems.....20 years in no problems......25 years in no problems.....now at 30 years ....oh there is a problem....no pension for ya....sorry.....that is chicken shit.....you work for it you get what was promised to ya if you put in the time asked....

 

[Wyatt earp]

And you're a fucking moron who can't contract the words "you" and "are"....STFU

and why? does it make you feel special that you can? So guru how the fuck is the UAW going to orgainize in a RTW state?

"Right to work" for dogfood? You have no idea how those assembly plants got there...you think southern man hates unions more than he hates crap pay? Jeff Sessions calling for Detroit to "go broke" while he fleeced the taxpayers into building those tin cans in Alabama and got campaign money and free cars from the Nips...meanwhile the pay is based on the UAW standard...nothing else. Same deal with all the asian builders....they know the money is in the engine and drive-train...who makes those makes the moola....let the stupid Americans bolt them together, eh? wakey wakey....you ain't fit to call yourself an American if you don't see who's behind the curtain.

Your not that bright you can rent a 3 bedroom home down here on a acre of land for $500 bucks, pack of smokes $3 bucks and you didnt answer the question how is the UAW going to organize in a RTW state?

 

[syrenn]

but at the same time that Fireman did what he was asked to do in good faith for 30 years....he wasnt stealing no ones money....

agreed... they were not stealing.. They did their job and were paid each month for doing that job... the rest is gravy

they were promised pensions...... they were promised money that is not there or real. The gravy train crashed and is off the rails.....

cold-blooded when it doesn't touch you or those around you......sad.

real life..... sucks.

the unions and politicians sold people lies for votes..... sucks

union driven ponzi scheme pension scams..... sucks

 

[JoeBlam]

^^^ main problem with unions.... right there.

they dont want anyone working.... who is not union and or vested into the system.

ie....."you have no business talking shit about the UAW"

You ever worked in an auto plant? Yes or no.

you do realize all it took for me to melt you down was asking if non labor workers could work in union shops...

I believe I've just trounced your butt in this conversation....you've been making remarks about unions based on nothing you know first hand...only a concept that's been fed to you by those who don't believe the working man has any right to a decent living. As long as it's conceptual you have no skin in the game and can look away when something like Detroit happens. Far from "melting" I feel sorry for you. Your life-experience isn't real until you've understood all perspectives...you don't and you know it and I just proved it.

 

[peach174]

No one loses their pensions in the private sector.

When a private company goes bankrupt it is turned over the to PBGC.
The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC), was created in 1974 by the Employee Retirement Income Security Act.

If the PBGC takes over as the trustee of your pension plan, they will review the plan records and determine the benefits owed to each person. If you already receive a pension, you'll continue receiving that amount without interruption while the policy is reviewed. If you have not yet retired, you'll receive an estimated benefit when you apply to the PBGC to begin your pension payments.

Cities who go bankrupt also negotiate with the City Workers and Pensions by a bankruptcy Judge.
No one is going to lose their pensions.

 

[syrenn]

oh ok i see what you are saying.........but i do know 2-3 people who do work for the Union whose job it is, is to help those whose families are affected by disaster or some disease.....they are not ripping anyone off....

and do you know how much they make? The union workers here make money hand over fist.... on your dues.... and they are safe.

they are nothing but leaches gorging one workers blood sweat and tears in my opinion. They dont care about the workers... they care about the dues they rake in.

Know any union stewards? yes or no.

as a matter of fact...i do.

some of the nicest most misguided blinders on people i know.....

 

[JoeBlam]

Your not that bright you can rent a 3 bedroom home down here on a acre of land for $500 bucks, pack of smokes $3 bucks and you didnt answer the question how is the UAW going to organize in a RTW state?

 

[syrenn]

BTW, now we're seeing what an aging work force, pension and medical costs are doing do the Jap car builders......their TOYota got stuck throttle-advance sensors that send Americans careening though parking lots and into ditches.....to this day, they won't admit they can no longer build a trustworthy car. And on an even sadder note, there are posters here who hate Detroit because their own guilt from driving a rice-burner....down inside you should hate yourselves for letting fellow Americans go jobless partially because of you. If you don't, don't ask yourself why the country is in trouble...no answer will make any difference to you.

just an FYI

you jap and nip shit is not endearing you to anyone here......

EXCUSE ME. My uncle fought those little bastards across the Pacific until he was wounded on Saipan.....you don't seem to understand the war never ended for them.

and do you think you were the only one with family in the pacific theater?

 

[Toro]

They worked for them and deserve the pensions. Financial realities may force a smaller amount on them, but they should be paid. Maybe the city can float a bond or something after it gets on its feet. Maybe a penny or two rise in sales tax.

No, I don't think it is right that they won't be paid. The city contracted with them and should live up to its promises.

float a bond?

how do you think they got to where they are now? Spending and borrowing more then they can ever afford. At some point you have to stop the maddness...and face facts.

bankruptcy

no more money.....

Bankruptcy means debt restructuring, not no more money.

It's likely that the retirees will take a haircut, as will the bond holders.

Republicans cheering retirees losing their pensions is a really, really bad idea.

 

[Wyatt earp]

oh ok i see what you are saying.........but i do know 2-3 people who do work for the Union whose job it is, is to help those whose families are affected by disaster or some disease.....they are not ripping anyone off....

and do you know how much they make? The union workers here make money hand over fist.... on your dues.... and they are safe.

they are nothing but leaches gorging one workers blood sweat and tears in my opinion. They dont care about the workers... they care about the dues they rake in.

Know any union stewards? yes or no.

I worked with one in Chicago and he was the most drama lama maintenance guy I have ever met, sheesh what a cry baby. I never joined his stupid union.

 

[syrenn]

but at the same time that Fireman did what he was asked to do in good faith for 30 years....he wasnt stealing no ones money....

The beneficiary of a crime, even if blameless, is still benefiting from a crime. This isnt exactly a crime, but it was a scam, a scam whos end result is finally here.

Said fireman also voted in those union leaders, and also those politicans supported by the union leaders. Ignorance of economics does not result in blamelessness.

so Marty.....you have worked for a place for 30 years,you are in your 60's and you are ready to hang it up.....then someone says sorry you dont get your pension.....do you just shrug and say.....oh no biggie.....i am 63.....in sure i can find a job....you know what Marty.....you work for a fucking place for 30 fucking years in good faith....10 years in no problems....15 years in no problems.....20 years in no problems......25 years in no problems.....now at 30 years ....oh there is a problem....no pension for ya....sorry.....that is chicken shit.....you work for it you get what was promised to ya if you put in the time asked....

the problem with that is..... people like that were paid every step of the way for the work they preformed.....


pensions are based on having the money to pay for it.... there is no money left.

 

[JoeBlam]

and do you know how much they make? The union workers here make money hand over fist.... on your dues.... and they are safe.

they are nothing but leaches gorging one workers blood sweat and tears in my opinion. They dont care about the workers... they care about the dues they rake in.

Know any union stewards? yes or no.

as a matter of fact...i do.

some of the nicest most misguided blinders on people i know.....

Uh huh..."nice" people...."who don't care about the workers only themselves" like you said earlier.....you seem a little shook up......

 

[Harry Dresden]

do you work for the union?

oh ok i see what you are saying.........but i do know 2-3 people who do work for the Union whose job it is, is to help those whose families are affected by disaster or some disease.....they are not ripping anyone off....

and do you know how much they make? The union workers here make money hand over fist.... on your dues.... and they are safe.

they are nothing but leaches gorging one workers blood sweat and tears in my opinion. They dont care about the workers... they care about the dues they rake in.

these people give shit Syrenn.....if they didnt they would not be at all the fund raisers they attend and organize.....they also invest a lot of their time in the Postal food drive and food banks around here....i would not do it.....to many things you have to be at....

 

[syrenn]

You ever worked in an auto plant? Yes or no.

you do realize all it took for me to melt you down was asking if non labor workers could work in union shops...

I believe I've just trounced your butt in this conversation....you've been making remarks about unions based on nothing you know first hand...only a concept that's been fed to you by those who don't believe the working man has any right to a decent living. As long as it's conceptual you have no skin in the game and can look away when something like Detroit happens. Far from "melting" I feel sorry for you. Your life-experience isn't real until you've understood all perspectives...you don't and you know it and I just proved it.

I am sure you would like to think that...... so if it makes you feel good... keep thinking it. and yes, you did melt on a single question about non union labor..... you will live.

 

[JoeBlam]

just an FYI

you jap and nip shit is not endearing you to anyone here......

EXCUSE ME. My uncle fought those little bastards across the Pacific until he was wounded on Saipan.....you don't seem to understand the war never ended for them.

and do you think you were the only one with family in the pacific theater?

Nobody who did would ever drive a Jap car is what I know. I never have. My uncle would have gone through Obama's SS to get at him for bowing to their fucking emperor.

 

[Wyatt earp]

You ever worked in an auto plant? Yes or no.

you do realize all it took for me to melt you down was asking if non labor workers could work in union shops...

I believe I've just trounced your butt in this conversation....you've been making remarks about unions based on nothing you know first hand...only a concept that's been fed to you by those who don't believe the working man has any right to a decent living. As long as it's conceptual you have no skin in the game and can look away when something like Detroit happens. Far from "melting" I feel sorry for you. Your life-experience isn't real until you've understood all perspectives...you don't and you know it and I just proved it.

no you lost and going in melt down mode, you are happy that unions drove away 300,000 Detroit manufacturing jobs. You would rather that a person have no job if they didnt get paid Union scale with a job. and show a link that auto workers in the south are tied to the UAW

 

[JoeBlam]

you do realize all it took for me to melt you down was asking if non labor workers could work in union shops...

I believe I've just trounced your butt in this conversation....you've been making remarks about unions based on nothing you know first hand...only a concept that's been fed to you by those who don't believe the working man has any right to a decent living. As long as it's conceptual you have no skin in the game and can look away when something like Detroit happens. Far from "melting" I feel sorry for you. Your life-experience isn't real until you've understood all perspectives...you don't and you know it and I just proved it.

I am sure you would like to think that...... so if it makes you feel good... keep thinking it. and yes, you did melt on a single question about non union labor..... you will live.

Be prepared next time you step to me....I don't like embarrassing women.

 

[JoeBlam]

you do realize all it took for me to melt you down was asking if non labor workers could work in union shops...

I believe I've just trounced your butt in this conversation....you've been making remarks about unions based on nothing you know first hand...only a concept that's been fed to you by those who don't believe the working man has any right to a decent living. As long as it's conceptual you have no skin in the game and can look away when something like Detroit happens. Far from "melting" I feel sorry for you. Your life-experience isn't real until you've understood all perspectives...you don't and you know it and I just proved it.

no you lost and going in melt down mode, you are happy that unions drove away 300,000 Detroit manufacturing jobs. You would rather that a person have no job if they didnt get paid Union scale with a job. and show a link that auto workers in the south are tied to the UAW

I'm from Detroit and you're an idiot....didn't I make that clear enough already?

 

[Caroljo]

EXCUSE ME. My uncle fought those little bastards across the Pacific until he was wounded on Saipan.....you don't seem to understand the war never ended for them.

and do you think you were the only one with family in the pacific theater?

Nobody who did would ever drive a Jap car is what I know. I never have. My uncle would have gone through Obama's SS to get at him for bowing to their fucking emperor.

My father was a Chief Petty Officer in the Navy. His ship was supposed to be docked at Pearl Harbor the day it was attacked, but they were delayed for a couple days (thank God). Guess what....I think there are more Japanese living on Oahu now than ever before! (And yes, it does piss off a lot of the locals).

 

[syrenn]

EXCUSE ME. My uncle fought those little bastards across the Pacific until he was wounded on Saipan.....you don't seem to understand the war never ended for them.

and do you think you were the only one with family in the pacific theater?

Nobody who did would ever drive a Jap car is what I know. I never have. My uncle would have gone through Obama's SS to get at him for bowing to their fucking emperor.

really...nobody? You speak for that many?