Should Israel repair the Temple.

[Shusha]

AND, let's get down to the meat of the matter and shove aside all this nonsense about who does or should "legally" control the Holy place.

ALL people have the right of freedom of worship at places of historical and religious significance? YES or NO?

Of course. And if Israel wanted to REALLY make that point, The Temple Mount/Dome of the Rock SHOULD be turned into an INTERNATIONAL heritage site with EVERYONE praying up there in their own accommodations.

Demilitarize it -- Install the necessary access and security, invite EVERY faith that shares the Holy Land to come. Don't split the baby into pieces..

Well, I'm not fond of framing it as an "international" heritage site. But I'm sure okay with inviting EVERY faith to come and visit and pray and worship and celebrate. Israel supports that, generally. Don't you think?

 

[Shusha]

The concern is that if Israel did enforce freedom of worship, the Muslims would have a Holy War over it. With Israel taking the beating. Do you think the international community would engage in that Holy War on Israel's side?

 

[flacaltenn]

AND, let's get down to the meat of the matter and shove aside all this nonsense about who does or should "legally" control the Holy place.

ALL people have the right of freedom of worship at places of historical and religious significance? YES or NO?

Of course. And if Israel wanted to REALLY make that point, The Temple Mount/Dome of the Rock SHOULD be turned into an INTERNATIONAL heritage site with EVERYONE praying up there in their own accommodations.

Demilitarize it -- Install the necessary access and security, invite EVERY faith that shares the Holy Land to come. Don't split the baby into pieces..

Well, I'm not fond of framing it as an "international" heritage site. But I'm sure okay with inviting EVERY faith to come and visit and pray and worship and celebrate. Israel supports that, generally. Don't you think?

Israel will always be denigrated and smeared for limiting access to that site. For instance -- No ISIS picnics on the Mount. No wave of pilgrims from Yemen, etc.. But making it a safe place for tourists/pilgrims/residents that ALREADY have access to Israel would be the limit. Control all access in/out. So that Palis from W.Bank can access it as well.

Tell the Waqf to "deal with it". They have all the access they want. Get Israeli/Pali Christians to buy into the deal.

 

[rylah]

The concern is that if Israel did enforce freedom of worship, the Muslims would have a Holy War over it. With Israel taking the beating. Do you think the international community would engage in that Holy War on Israel's side?

No, as I understand Christianity sees the destruction of the Temple as the symbol for its' supremacy as much as Islam. Any support for Jewish success or equality on the Mount is seen as support for the Antichrist.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Roudy]

Maybe you should ask yourself what is wrong with you, Achmed? I provided clear evidence that the wall is the remains of the second temple and that is what the Jews have believed for thousands of years.

Hahaha, it's explained to you that the Western Wall is a retaining wall built after and separately from the Temple, and you still think it's part of the actual temple.

Archeologists contradict your claim. But it doesn't really matter. What does matter is what the followers think. When you Muslims can prove that Mohammad's spirit actually traveled on that flying donkey and the "far away mosque" meant the mosque in Jerusalem, then you guys can start criticising what other faiths believe.

Yup, what really matters is the propaganda that the ZioNazis believe. You said it.

What you call propaganda is the truth. There are hundreds of thousands of archeological sites and artifacts that prove without a doubt the existence and ongoing presence of the Jewish people, and their temple in the land of ancient Israel.

 

[montelatici]

Maybe you should ask yourself what is wrong with you, Achmed? I provided clear evidence that the wall is the remains of the second temple and that is what the Jews have believed for thousands of years.

Hahaha, it's explained to you that the Western Wall is a retaining wall built after and separately from the Temple, and you still think it's part of the actual temple.

Archeologists contradict your claim. But it doesn't really matter. What does matter is what the followers think. When you Muslims can prove that Mohammad's spirit actually traveled on that flying donkey and the "far away mosque" meant the mosque in Jerusalem, then you guys can start criticising what other faiths believe.

Yup, what really matters is the propaganda that the ZioNazis believe. You said it.

What you call propaganda is the truth. There are hundreds of thousands of archeological sites and artifacts that prove without a doubt the existence and ongoing presence of the Jewish people, and their temple in the land of ancient Israel.

Oh shut up.


"What evidence is there that the Temple of Solomon existed?

The only evidence is the Bible. There are no other records describing it, and to date there has been no archaeological evidence of the Temple at all. What's more, other archaeological sites associated with King Solomon - palaces, fortresses and walled cities that seemed to match places and cities from the Bible - are also now in doubt.

There is a growing sense among scholars that most of these archaeological sites are actually later than previously believed. Some now believe there may be little or no archaeological evidence of King Solomon's time at all, and doubt that he ruled the vast empire which is described in the Bible."

BBC - Science & Nature - Horizon

 

[Roudy]

The concern is that if Israel did enforce freedom of worship, the Muslims would have a Holy War over it. With Israel taking the beating. Do you think the international community would engage in that Holy War on Israel's side?

No, as I understand Christianity sees the destruction of the Temple as the symbol for its' supremacy as much as Islam. Any support for Jewish success or equality on the Mount is seen as support for the Antichrist.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Depends on the type of Christian you are referring to. Whether it be the first or second coming of the Messiah, both prophecies predict the return of the Jews, the reestablishment of Israel, and the rebuilding of the temple. The Christians however believe that the Messiah will be Jesus, who will save the Jews, Israel, and the world. Majority of Christians believe this, that Jews will eventually become Christians when Jesus returns.

 

[Roudy]

Maybe you should ask yourself what is wrong with you, Achmed? I provided clear evidence that the wall is the remains of the second temple and that is what the Jews have believed for thousands of years.

Hahaha, it's explained to you that the Western Wall is a retaining wall built after and separately from the Temple, and you still think it's part of the actual temple.

Archeologists contradict your claim. But it doesn't really matter. What does matter is what the followers think. When you Muslims can prove that Mohammad's spirit actually traveled on that flying donkey and the "far away mosque" meant the mosque in Jerusalem, then you guys can start criticising what other faiths believe.

Yup, what really matters is the propaganda that the ZioNazis believe. You said it.

What you call propaganda is the truth. There are hundreds of thousands of archeological sites and artifacts that prove without a doubt the existence and ongoing presence of the Jewish people, and their temple in the land of ancient Israel.

Oh shut up.


"What evidence is there that the Temple of Solomon existed?

The only evidence is the Bible. There are no other records describing it, and to date there has been no archaeological evidence of the Temple at all. What's more, other archaeological sites associated with King Solomon - palaces, fortresses and walled cities that seemed to match places and cities from the Bible - are also now in doubt.

There is a growing sense among scholars that most of these archaeological sites are actually later than previously believed. Some now believe there may be little or no archaeological evidence of King Solomon's time at all, and doubt that he ruled the vast empire which is described in the Bible."

BBC - Science & Nature - Horizon

"The only evidence is in the Bible"? Ha ha ha ya gotta love it!

There ya go exhibiting your Jew hate and utter ignorance, once again.

The Arch of Titus (Italian: Arco di Tito; Latin: Arcus Titi) is a 1st-century AD. honorific arch,[1] located on the Via Sacra, Rome, just to the south-east of the Roman Forum. It was constructed in c. AD. 82 by the Emperor Domitian shortly after the death of his older brother Titus to commemorate Titus's victories, including the Siege of Jerusalem (AD 70).[2] The arch has provided the general model for many triumphal arches erected since the 16th century—perhaps most famously it is the inspiration for the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, France.[3]

The Arch provides one of the few contemporary depictions of Temple period artifacts.[13][14]

The seven-branched menorah and trumpets are clearly depicted. It became a symbol of the Jewish diaspora. In a later era, Pope Paul IV made it the place of a yearly oath of submission. According to Morton Satin, until the modern State of Israel was founded in 1948, Jews refused to walk under it due to an ancient ban placed on the monument by Rome’s Jewish authorities. The ban was formally lifted in 1997.[15] The arch was never mentioned in rabbinical sources.[16]

The menorah depicted on the Arch served as the model for the menorah used on the emblem of the state of Israel.[17]

 

[Roudy]

Relief panel showing The Spoils of Jerusalem being brought into Rome, Arch of Titus, Rome, after 81 C.E., marble, 7 feet,10 inches high

Two panel reliefs flank the single passageway of the arch, and a third adorns the vault (the vault relief is above). The subject matter of the flanking reliefs draws upon the 71 C.E. triumph of Vespasian and Titus, depicting key triumphal episodes following the fall of Jerusalem. In one scene (below) Romans carry spoils from the Temple in Jerusalem, including a Menorah, sacred trumpets and the showbread table. Recent studies have shown these items were painted with yellow ochre.

Khan Academy

 

[Roudy]

There are outlandish claims by antisemites like Monte, and then there is the reality.

King Solomon's Wall Found—Proof of Bible Tale?

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For First Time Ever, Archaeological Evidence Proves Jewish Temple Stood on Temple Mount [PHOTOS]
“And He said unto me: ‘Son of man this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Yisrael for ever.’” Ezekiel 43:7 (The Israel Bible™)

Collection of Herodian floor tiles believed to be part of the Second Temple complex. (Temple Mount Sifting Project/Zachi Dvira)

An incredible new discovery at the Temple Mount has produced the first-ever physical and archaeological evidence that the Jewish Second Temple stood on the Mount 2,000 years ago, upsetting Arab claims, increasingly endorsed by the international community, that the Temples never existed.

Archaeologists from the Temple Mount Sifting Project, salvaging artifacts from Muslim destruction at the Temple complex, have completed the restoration of ornate floor tiles which experts believe likely decorated the courtyard of the Second Jewish Temple. The project provides visible and incontrovertible proof, backed up by ancient texts and historical context, of a Jewish Temple on the Mount.

In total, archaeological teams have uncovered approximately 600 colored stone floor tile segments, with more than 100 of them positively dated to the Herodian Second Temple period (37-4 BCE).

An eight-pointed star floor tile from the Second Temple. (Temple Mount Sifting Project/Zachi Dvira)
The importance of the discovery is undeniable.

“This represents the first time that archeologists have been able to successfully restore an element from the Herodian Second Temple complex,” said Zachi Dvira, co-founder and director of the Temple Mount Sifting Project.

The Sifting Project began in the Tzurim Valley National Park in 2004 in an attempt to salvage whatever archaeological artifacts it could from destruction caused by illegal construction projects on the Temple Mount led by the Jordanian Waqf that controls the Mount.

This destruction of irreplaceable archaeological artifacts is considered to be part of a larger trend of Temple denial. Denying Jewish connection to the Temple Mount began at the 2000 Camp David Summit, when the Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat insisted that “the Temple” existed near Shechem (Nablus), and not on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

This claim has been taken up in the international narrative as UNESCO passed an initiative claiming the Temple Mount as an exclusively Muslim holy site. This claim went mainstream last October when the New York Times published an article questioning whether the two Jewish Temples ever existed at all.

An eight-pointed star floor tile from the Second Temple. (Temple Mount Sifting Project/Zachi Dvira)
Breaking Israel News asked Dr. Gabriel Barkay, co-founder and director of the Temple Mount Sifting Project, if this first-of-its-kind restoration was absolute proof refuting Temple denial.

“You are asking me if I have proof that water is wet,” he responded emphatically. “I don’t need to prove anything. I found facts.”

Dr. Barkay compared denial of the Jewish Temples to denying the Holocaust. “I myself am a Holocaust survivor, and I couldn’t care less about people who deny what I know to be true. For the Holocaust, we have the camps, we have the films and photographs, and we have the survivors,” he told Breaking Israel News.

“For the Temple, we have the Mishnah (Oral Law), the New Testament, we have the writings of Flavius Josephus (a 1st Century Romano-Jewish historian). We have mountains of archaeological evidence. I don’t want to relate to what is nothing less than a political misuse of history.

[ubm_premium banners=144 count=1]

“There are people who approach me, especially Europeans, and ask what proof I have there was a Jewish Temple. I say that I don’t have proof and I am not interested in proof,” Dr. Barkay stated. “The fact is there was a Temple. Our discovery simply shows the glory that was the Temple.”

Speaking of proof, the tiles fit perfectly into a description of the Temple complex given by historian Josephus, who saw Temple with his own eyes. He wrote in his work “The Jewish Wars” that “the uncovered [Temple Mount courtyard] was completely paved with stones of various types and colors”.

The find also agrees with Talmudic literature about the construction of the Temple Mount which describes rows of green, blue and white marble. The tile segments, mostly imported from Rome, Asia Minor, Tunisia and Egypt, were made from polished multicolored stones cut in a variety of geometric shapes.

Floor tiles from the Second Temple. (Temple Mount Sifting Project/Zachi Dvira)
Another point of historical proof is that this style of flooring is consistent with floors found in contemporary works built by Herod, the builder of the Second Temple. Similar flooring has been found at Herod’s palaces in Masada, Herodian, and Jericho, among others. A key characteristic of the Herodian tiles is their size, which corresponds to the Roman foot, approximately 29.6 cm.

The restoration is proof of a theory that large expanses of the Temple Mount during the Second Temple were covered with a special type of ornate flooring called opus sectile, Latin for “cut work.” The idea was first put forward in 2007 by archaeologist Assaf Avraham, director of the Jerusalem Walls National Park. The new discovery confirms it.

“So far, we have succeeded in restoring seven potential designs of the majestic flooring that decorated the buildings of the Temple Mount,” said Frankie Snyder, a member of the Temple Mount Sifting Project’s team of researchers and an expert in the study of ancient Herodian style flooring, explaining that there were no opus sectile floors in Israel prior to the time of King Herod. “The tile segments were perfectly inlaid such that one could not even insert a sharp blade between them.”

......

 

[Roudy]

Ancient First Temple Artifacts Uncovered in Jerusalem

Ancient First Temple Artifacts Uncovered in Jerusalem
Archaeologists from Israel’s Antiquities Authority (IAA) have revealed two important artifacts recently discovered in Jerusalem, both dating from the First Temple Period (8-7 BCE).

The first, a bone seal engraved with the name “Shaul” was found in an excavation being conducted under the auspices of the IAA, in cooperation with the Nature and Parks Authority in the Walls Around Jerusalem National Park, located in the City of David.

Israel News Photo: (Vladimir Naykhin)

The dig, which is underwritten by the “Ir David Foundation” (City of David) is being carried out under the direction of Professor Ronny Reich of the University of Haifa and Eli Shukron of the IAA.

The seal, which is made of bone, was found broken and is missing a piece from its upper right side. Two parallel lines divide the surface of the seal into two registers in which Hebrew letters are engraved. A period followed by a floral image or a tiny fruit appear at the end of the bottom name.

The name of the seal’s owner was completely preserved and it is written in the shortened form of the name, Shaul, which is known from both the Bible (Genesis 36:37; 1 Samuel 9:2; 1 Chronicles 4:24 and 6:9) and from other Hebrew seals.

Another Hebrew seal and three Hebrew bullae (pieces of clay stamped with seal impressions) were previously discovered nearby.

The second artifact, an ancient jar handle bearing the Hebrew name “Menachem” was uncovered in the neighborhood of Ras el ‘Amud during an excavation prior to construction of a girls’ school by the Jerusalem municipality.

Israel News Photo: (Mariana Salzberger/IAA)

The jar handle, inscribed with the name "Menachem" carved in Hebrew, was found among settlement remains dating to different phases of the Middle Canaanite period (2200 – 1900 BCE), and the last years of the First Temple period (8-7 BCE) that were recently uncovered during the excavation.

The name Menachem Ben Gadi is noted in the Bible as that of a king of Israel who reigned for 10 years in Samaria, as one of the last kings of the Kingdom of Israel. According to Kings II, Menachem Ben Gadi ascended the throne in the 39th year of Uzziah, King of Judah (Judea).

The names Menachem and Yinachem both are expressions of condolence, noted excavation director Dr. Ron Be’eri, who speculated they might be related to the death of family members. The archaeologist added that such names already appeared earlier in the Canaanite period, on Egyptian pottery sherds and a document about an Egyptian governor on the Lebanese coast.

This is the first time that a handle with the name “Menachem” has been found in Jerusalem.

 

[montelatici]

Oh shut up.


"What evidence is there that the Temple of Solomon existed?

The only evidence is the Bible. There are no other records describing it, and to date there has been no archaeological evidence of the Temple at all. What's more, other archaeological sites associated with King Solomon - palaces, fortresses and walled cities that seemed to match places and cities from the Bible - are also now in doubt.

There is a growing sense among scholars that most of these archaeological sites are actually later than previously believed. Some now believe there may be little or no archaeological evidence of King Solomon's time at all, and doubt that he ruled the vast empire which is described in the Bible."

BBC - Science & Nature - Horizon

 

[Roudy]

Bullshit propaganda. Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[montelatici]

Bullshit propaganda. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Facts are inconvenient aren't they. Keep clown dancing.

 

[Roudy]

Bullshit propaganda. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Facts are inconvenient aren't they. Keep clown dancing.

Fact is even the Italians agree that the Arch is evidence of the sacking of Jerusalem and Italian European looting of the remains of the Temple. It was used to build the Collosuem, and later the Collosuem was stripped to build the Vatican. So one can argue that the Vatican, is built with stolen Jewish property.

Now Remember...wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[montelatici]

Bullshit propaganda. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Facts are inconvenient aren't they. Keep clown dancing.

Fact is even the Italians agree that the Arch is evidence of the sacking of Jerusalem and Italian European looting of the remains of the Temple. It was used to build the Collosuem, and later the Collosuem was stripped to build the Vatican. So one can argue that the Vatican, is built with stolen Jewish property.

Now Remember...wash, rinse, repeat.

You don't even know which temple you are talking about. Herod was appointed by the Roman Senate and the temple you are talking about (built buy Herod) built with taxes collected by the Roman administration while the area was under Roman protection. Everything in Palestine belonged to the Senātus Populusque Rōmānus (SPQR), it was a province of the Roman Empire. The assets were confiscated to cover the cost of defeating the Jew terrorist troublemakers. The cost of deploying the legions was more than the assets recovered, so the Jews still owe Rome.

 

[saltydancin]

Bullshit propaganda. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Facts are inconvenient aren't they. Keep clown dancing.

Fact is even the Italians agree that the Arch is evidence of the sacking of Jerusalem and Italian European looting of the remains of the Temple. It was used to build the Collosuem, and later the Collosuem was stripped to build the Vatican. So one can argue that the Vatican, is built with stolen Jewish property.

Now Remember...wash, rinse, repeat.

You don't even know which temple you are talking about. Herod was appointed by the Roman Senate and the temple you are talking about (built buy Herod) built with taxes collected by the Roman administration while the area was under Roman protection. Everything in Palestine belonged to the Senātus Populusque Rōmānus (SPQR), it was a province of the Roman Empire. The assets were confiscated to cover the cost of defeating the Jew terrorist troublemakers. The cost of deploying the legions was more than the assets recovered, so the Jews still owe Rome.

So that's why these KKK churchstate cops in the US dictate "serve the Pope or die" along with an absurd edict that Jews have to pay the US which is collecting for the Holocaust just as for the Catholic Church assassinating JFK. Like I told Rehnquist, go stick a swastika up Uranus & .......rotate......temple assets !

 

[Shusha]

Everything in Palestine belonged to the Senātus Populusque Rōmānus (SPQR), it was a province of the Roman Empire. The assets were confiscated to cover the cost of defeating the Jew terrorist troublemakers. The cost of deploying the legions was more than the assets recovered, so the Jews still owe Rome.

Oh. So you are arguing that conquerors can charge the indigenous peoples for the costs of the conquest. Israel should get right on that. Perhaps by confiscating the Mosque and the Dome.

Also, too bad that there are no Jews left to "owe Rome", you know, since they are all just Europeans.

 

[Roudy]

Bullshit propaganda. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Facts are inconvenient aren't they. Keep clown dancing.

Fact is even the Italians agree that the Arch is evidence of the sacking of Jerusalem and Italian European looting of the remains of the Temple. It was used to build the Collosuem, and later the Collosuem was stripped to build the Vatican. So one can argue that the Vatican, is built with stolen Jewish property.

Now Remember...wash, rinse, repeat.

You don't even know which temple you are talking about. Herod was appointed by the Roman Senate and the temple you are talking about (built buy Herod) built with taxes collected by the Roman administration while the area was under Roman protection. Everything in Palestine belonged to the Senātus Populusque Rōmānus (SPQR), it was a province of the Roman Empire. The assets were confiscated to cover the cost of defeating the Jew terrorist troublemakers. The cost of deploying the legions was more than the assets recovered, so the Jews still owe Rome.

You are fulla Shiite. Even the Italians agree that this is what happened. The occupying and invading Romans destroyed and looted the the Jewish temple. Plus, the Roman colosseum was build with imported Judean slaves, about 50,000 of them.

 

[montelatici]

What Italians agree about what? Herod's temple was built during Roman rule and he was apponted by the Roman Senate, he was a civil servant of the government of Rome. It belonged to the Romans, they could do whatever they wanted with it. LOL