Should there be mandatory training before you can purchase a firearm?

[Pop23]

I don't recall asking you to recite your fantasies and imaginings of benefits to me. I have asked, at various times, precisely what you think is taught in gun safety classes which will render some huge improvement, and to provide EVIDENCE that your proposals will produce substantial benefits without onorous restrictions. Your daydreams aren't evidence.

Those mandatory courses doesn’t exist yet. So I can’t know what’s in them.

Also, we can’t know what the exact result is going to be either.

But I can guarantee that education is going to result in educated people and that educated people tends to out perform uneducated people in their field.

There is no real restriction involved, this right is only going to get boosted by a mandatory education.

And for the record, you actually did ask me about my imagination:

You: “What is it you imagine is being taught, or would be taught...”

You again: “I don't recall asking you to recite your fantasies and imaginings...”

How is requiring an education to own a gun not a restriction? If someone does not get said education (or fails to pass an education course, one would assume), they are unable to own a gun.

Moral or not, legal or not, practical or not, it's clearly a restriction. Gun ownership would be restricted to those who receive the education in question.

I think it’s a solvable, practical problem. I’ve seen suggestions like using schools and organizations like NRA to distribute education.

In this question I believe the means matters less.

Again... there is no evidence whatsoever, that having educational classes, would reduce anything.

Accidents do not happen, because someone picked up the gun, had no idea how to work it, and shot themselves. No one grabs a gun by the barrel, points the handle at someone, and then fiddles around until they shoot themselves.

You said earlier that you have no idea what would be taught in a mandatory class, and thus can't provide any evidence of a benefit, because it doesn't exist yet.

That is the absolute dumbest answer I have ever read.

WHat do you mean they don't exist? They exist in every single state, across this country and outside the country. I know... I went to one. Manditory classes is required to get your CCW in the state of Ohio.

It was the most useless class of pointless Jepordy quality trivia in the world. Why? Because gun safety doesn't require anything beyond common sense.

Are you telling me that without a dumb instructor barking factoids in your face, that you can't figure out on your own, that you don't point a gun at people? That you don't pull the trigger on the gun, while you have the barrel in your mouth? That you don't wave the gun around randomly, while pulling the trigger?

Are you telling me that you can not identify the trigger of a gun?

Again, I was not even 10 years old, and they handed me a rifle at summer camp, and I started shooting targets with it.

My father was a police officer, and handed me his .357, and without any training, without some dumb class, I could figure out where to put my hand, where to put my finger, and where to point the long round end, with the hole in it.

The idea that you are avoid accidents, by having some instructor standing at the front of the class going "Do not point this at people"... which literally what the gun training course had to say about safety..... is INSANE.

This is like the drivers education classes. My instructor didn't teach me anything, when I learn how to drive. Absolutely nothing. He got in the car, told me to drive around, and then checked marked a list of obvious things..... like "stopped at stop sign".... derp.... "Went through green light".... derp derp.... "followed the speed limit" DERP DERP!.....

....sigh.....

I have this roommate from Bangladesh. Never held a gun before in his life.

He picked it up, held it with both hands, and shot a target at the end of the range with 20 rounds. No training. Never saw a gun in real life before.

Dumb education classes will do nothing. They don't do anything now. We're not talking about quantum physics. We're not even talking about 2nd grade adding and subtracting.

Literally my nephew turned 6, and they bought him a nerf gun. It didn't take a manual for him to be pegging his sisters with nerf darts. No one had to show him not to point the end with the hole, at his eye ball, or where to pull the trigger.

I don't know what you people on the left-wing of gun control, think they are going to put into a gun safety class, that is not obvious to a toddler. And if there isn't anything you can think of, then based on what drug induced fantasy, do you think there will be a benefit?

Allright, one long post in the essence that education regarding guns and cars are unnecessary. I beg to differ. We can leave it there.

Exactly how much training is required by the government to buy a car?

I can’t find a single law on any books in regards to it.

Maybe you can link to it.

 

[Pop23]

OH taz, I live in a State that allows minors to own guns.

Just wanted to assure you that they exist. There are 30 of em

So I was right, an age limit is an infringement. Kids should be allowed to carry at school. It's the only way to be safe.

Funny you brought that up.

When I was in school we often brought them in and locked them in our lockers for hunting or the range after school.

Not a single school shooting during all those years.

Something changed.

Hmmmmmmm

 

[BlackSand]

So I was right, an age limit is an infringement. Kids should be allowed to carry at school. It's the only way to be safe.

Shoulds, coulds and woulds don't matter ... The Bill of Rights applies to all citizens including young people.

What Pop23 was referring to is ...
There is no age requirement in federal law that prohibits a child from owning/possessing a rifle and ammunition.
Some states respect that ... And likewise don't restrict children from owning/possessing rifles.

There is however a federal law the prohibits certain people (regardless of age) from possessing a firearm within 1000 feet of a school.

.

 

[Pop23]

OH taz, I live in a State that allows minors to own guns.

Just wanted to assure you that they exist. There are 30 of em

So I was right, an age limit is an infringement. Kids should be allowed to carry at school. It's the only way to be safe.

Go ahead and work on that. I’ve posted about diminished capacity and you simply ignore everything, like a child crying.........

“But Mommy, I don’t want too.....”

Actually the child above makes stronger arguments than you.

You're right for a change, you DO have diminished capacity.

And you got your ass kicked by someone you claim has diminished capacity?

Well, aren’t you the stupid one?

 

[OKTexas]

...No real need for general firearms safety training..

Until Gun Control folk get their way, anyhow... which they eventually will.

Carry on comrade.


.

 

[Taz]

So I was right, an age limit is an infringement. Kids should be allowed to carry at school. It's the only way to be safe.

Shoulds, coulds and woulds don't matter ... The Bill of Rights applies to all citizens including young people.

What Pop23 was referring to is ...
There is no age requirement in federal law that prohibits a child from owning/possessing a rifle and ammunition.
Some states respect that ... And likewise don't restrict children from owning/possessing rifles.

There is however a federal law the prohibits certain people (regardless of age) from possessing a firearm within 1000 feet of a school.

.

All infringements.

 

[Taz]

Ceci, so you don't agree with my statement? Then you're an anti-gun nut. Now you know.

"You're an . . ."

"No. Fuck off. Humans are talking, so shoo."

Lol, you’re anti-guns under certain circumstances. Now you know, Ceci.

"No. Fuck off. Humans are talking, so shoo."

Don't yell at the messenger, you're the one who's anti-gun.

"No. Fuck off. Humans are talking, so shoo."

[/QUOTE]
Your concession is duly noted, you anti-gun nut. But I'll still love you in the morning Ceci.

 

[Cecilie1200]

"shall not be infringed". An age limit is an infringement.

Yes and no. One has to keep in mind that children do not have all the same Constitutional rights and protections that adults do.

An arbitrary raising of the age limit for guns to 21 years old is a problem IMO, though.

So you’re for infringement. Got it.

No, I’m for educating idiots:

The minors “rights” are protected through the parent, or state appointed guardian.

Minors have diminished capacity, so not able to act in a reasonable condition”

Medscape: Medscape Access

So where is my 2nd right to own nukes or AA missiles?

And again with regard to age, it reads "shall not be infringed", which imo supercedes anything that comes after it, including an age restriction.

A nuke is not bearable

I mean, seriously. Obviously, you can talk to whomever you want, but just to warn you, if you address him as though he's an actual person, all you'll do is encourage him to vomit so much useless spam into the thread that it will be impossible for any real conversation to be had. Which, of course, is his entire purpose in showing up.

 

[ErikViking]

Those mandatory courses doesn’t exist yet. So I can’t know what’s in them.

Also, we can’t know what the exact result is going to be either.

But I can guarantee that education is going to result in educated people and that educated people tends to out perform uneducated people in their field.

There is no real restriction involved, this right is only going to get boosted by a mandatory education.

And for the record, you actually did ask me about my imagination:

You: “What is it you imagine is being taught, or would be taught...”

You again: “I don't recall asking you to recite your fantasies and imaginings...”

How is requiring an education to own a gun not a restriction? If someone does not get said education (or fails to pass an education course, one would assume), they are unable to own a gun.

Moral or not, legal or not, practical or not, it's clearly a restriction. Gun ownership would be restricted to those who receive the education in question.

I think it’s a solvable, practical problem. I’ve seen suggestions like using schools and organizations like NRA to distribute education.

In this question I believe the means matters less.

Again... there is no evidence whatsoever, that having educational classes, would reduce anything.

Accidents do not happen, because someone picked up the gun, had no idea how to work it, and shot themselves. No one grabs a gun by the barrel, points the handle at someone, and then fiddles around until they shoot themselves.

You said earlier that you have no idea what would be taught in a mandatory class, and thus can't provide any evidence of a benefit, because it doesn't exist yet.

That is the absolute dumbest answer I have ever read.

WHat do you mean they don't exist? They exist in every single state, across this country and outside the country. I know... I went to one. Manditory classes is required to get your CCW in the state of Ohio.

It was the most useless class of pointless Jepordy quality trivia in the world. Why? Because gun safety doesn't require anything beyond common sense.

Are you telling me that without a dumb instructor barking factoids in your face, that you can't figure out on your own, that you don't point a gun at people? That you don't pull the trigger on the gun, while you have the barrel in your mouth? That you don't wave the gun around randomly, while pulling the trigger?

Are you telling me that you can not identify the trigger of a gun?

Again, I was not even 10 years old, and they handed me a rifle at summer camp, and I started shooting targets with it.

My father was a police officer, and handed me his .357, and without any training, without some dumb class, I could figure out where to put my hand, where to put my finger, and where to point the long round end, with the hole in it.

The idea that you are avoid accidents, by having some instructor standing at the front of the class going "Do not point this at people"... which literally what the gun training course had to say about safety..... is INSANE.

This is like the drivers education classes. My instructor didn't teach me anything, when I learn how to drive. Absolutely nothing. He got in the car, told me to drive around, and then checked marked a list of obvious things..... like "stopped at stop sign".... derp.... "Went through green light".... derp derp.... "followed the speed limit" DERP DERP!.....

....sigh.....

I have this roommate from Bangladesh. Never held a gun before in his life.

He picked it up, held it with both hands, and shot a target at the end of the range with 20 rounds. No training. Never saw a gun in real life before.

Dumb education classes will do nothing. They don't do anything now. We're not talking about quantum physics. We're not even talking about 2nd grade adding and subtracting.

Literally my nephew turned 6, and they bought him a nerf gun. It didn't take a manual for him to be pegging his sisters with nerf darts. No one had to show him not to point the end with the hole, at his eye ball, or where to pull the trigger.

I don't know what you people on the left-wing of gun control, think they are going to put into a gun safety class, that is not obvious to a toddler. And if there isn't anything you can think of, then based on what drug induced fantasy, do you think there will be a benefit?

Allright, one long post in the essence that education regarding guns and cars are unnecessary. I beg to differ. We can leave it there.

Exactly how much training is required by the government to buy a car?

I can’t find a single law on any books in regards to it.

Maybe you can link to it.

Never said such a thing. No point in discussing view points you want me to have.

 

[Pop23]

How is requiring an education to own a gun not a restriction? If someone does not get said education (or fails to pass an education course, one would assume), they are unable to own a gun.

Moral or not, legal or not, practical or not, it's clearly a restriction. Gun ownership would be restricted to those who receive the education in question.

I think it’s a solvable, practical problem. I’ve seen suggestions like using schools and organizations like NRA to distribute education.

In this question I believe the means matters less.

Again... there is no evidence whatsoever, that having educational classes, would reduce anything.

Accidents do not happen, because someone picked up the gun, had no idea how to work it, and shot themselves. No one grabs a gun by the barrel, points the handle at someone, and then fiddles around until they shoot themselves.

You said earlier that you have no idea what would be taught in a mandatory class, and thus can't provide any evidence of a benefit, because it doesn't exist yet.

That is the absolute dumbest answer I have ever read.

WHat do you mean they don't exist? They exist in every single state, across this country and outside the country. I know... I went to one. Manditory classes is required to get your CCW in the state of Ohio.

It was the most useless class of pointless Jepordy quality trivia in the world. Why? Because gun safety doesn't require anything beyond common sense.

Are you telling me that without a dumb instructor barking factoids in your face, that you can't figure out on your own, that you don't point a gun at people? That you don't pull the trigger on the gun, while you have the barrel in your mouth? That you don't wave the gun around randomly, while pulling the trigger?

Are you telling me that you can not identify the trigger of a gun?

Again, I was not even 10 years old, and they handed me a rifle at summer camp, and I started shooting targets with it.

My father was a police officer, and handed me his .357, and without any training, without some dumb class, I could figure out where to put my hand, where to put my finger, and where to point the long round end, with the hole in it.

The idea that you are avoid accidents, by having some instructor standing at the front of the class going "Do not point this at people"... which literally what the gun training course had to say about safety..... is INSANE.

This is like the drivers education classes. My instructor didn't teach me anything, when I learn how to drive. Absolutely nothing. He got in the car, told me to drive around, and then checked marked a list of obvious things..... like "stopped at stop sign".... derp.... "Went through green light".... derp derp.... "followed the speed limit" DERP DERP!.....

....sigh.....

I have this roommate from Bangladesh. Never held a gun before in his life.

He picked it up, held it with both hands, and shot a target at the end of the range with 20 rounds. No training. Never saw a gun in real life before.

Dumb education classes will do nothing. They don't do anything now. We're not talking about quantum physics. We're not even talking about 2nd grade adding and subtracting.

Literally my nephew turned 6, and they bought him a nerf gun. It didn't take a manual for him to be pegging his sisters with nerf darts. No one had to show him not to point the end with the hole, at his eye ball, or where to pull the trigger.

I don't know what you people on the left-wing of gun control, think they are going to put into a gun safety class, that is not obvious to a toddler. And if there isn't anything you can think of, then based on what drug induced fantasy, do you think there will be a benefit?

Allright, one long post in the essence that education regarding guns and cars are unnecessary. I beg to differ. We can leave it there.

Exactly how much training is required by the government to buy a car?

I can’t find a single law on any books in regards to it.

Maybe you can link to it.

Never said such a thing. No point in discussing view points you want me to have.

You didn’t link education to cars and guns? Look again, you did

 

[Pop23]

Yes and no. One has to keep in mind that children do not have all the same Constitutional rights and protections that adults do.

An arbitrary raising of the age limit for guns to 21 years old is a problem IMO, though.

So you’re for infringement. Got it.

No, I’m for educating idiots:

The minors “rights” are protected through the parent, or state appointed guardian.

Minors have diminished capacity, so not able to act in a reasonable condition”

Medscape: Medscape Access

So where is my 2nd right to own nukes or AA missiles?

And again with regard to age, it reads "shall not be infringed", which imo supercedes anything that comes after it, including an age restriction.

A nuke is not bearable

I mean, seriously. Obviously, you can talk to whomever you want, but just to warn you, if you address him as though he's an actual person, all you'll do is encourage him to vomit so much useless spam into the thread that it will be impossible for any real conversation to be had. Which, of course, is his entire purpose in showing up.

Even Clayton pointed out how wrong Taz is.

 

[ErikViking]

I think it’s a solvable, practical problem. I’ve seen suggestions like using schools and organizations like NRA to distribute education.

In this question I believe the means matters less.

Again... there is no evidence whatsoever, that having educational classes, would reduce anything.

Accidents do not happen, because someone picked up the gun, had no idea how to work it, and shot themselves. No one grabs a gun by the barrel, points the handle at someone, and then fiddles around until they shoot themselves.

You said earlier that you have no idea what would be taught in a mandatory class, and thus can't provide any evidence of a benefit, because it doesn't exist yet.

That is the absolute dumbest answer I have ever read.

WHat do you mean they don't exist? They exist in every single state, across this country and outside the country. I know... I went to one. Manditory classes is required to get your CCW in the state of Ohio.

It was the most useless class of pointless Jepordy quality trivia in the world. Why? Because gun safety doesn't require anything beyond common sense.

Are you telling me that without a dumb instructor barking factoids in your face, that you can't figure out on your own, that you don't point a gun at people? That you don't pull the trigger on the gun, while you have the barrel in your mouth? That you don't wave the gun around randomly, while pulling the trigger?

Are you telling me that you can not identify the trigger of a gun?

Again, I was not even 10 years old, and they handed me a rifle at summer camp, and I started shooting targets with it.

My father was a police officer, and handed me his .357, and without any training, without some dumb class, I could figure out where to put my hand, where to put my finger, and where to point the long round end, with the hole in it.

The idea that you are avoid accidents, by having some instructor standing at the front of the class going "Do not point this at people"... which literally what the gun training course had to say about safety..... is INSANE.

This is like the drivers education classes. My instructor didn't teach me anything, when I learn how to drive. Absolutely nothing. He got in the car, told me to drive around, and then checked marked a list of obvious things..... like "stopped at stop sign".... derp.... "Went through green light".... derp derp.... "followed the speed limit" DERP DERP!.....

....sigh.....

I have this roommate from Bangladesh. Never held a gun before in his life.

He picked it up, held it with both hands, and shot a target at the end of the range with 20 rounds. No training. Never saw a gun in real life before.

Dumb education classes will do nothing. They don't do anything now. We're not talking about quantum physics. We're not even talking about 2nd grade adding and subtracting.

Literally my nephew turned 6, and they bought him a nerf gun. It didn't take a manual for him to be pegging his sisters with nerf darts. No one had to show him not to point the end with the hole, at his eye ball, or where to pull the trigger.

I don't know what you people on the left-wing of gun control, think they are going to put into a gun safety class, that is not obvious to a toddler. And if there isn't anything you can think of, then based on what drug induced fantasy, do you think there will be a benefit?

Allright, one long post in the essence that education regarding guns and cars are unnecessary. I beg to differ. We can leave it there.

Exactly how much training is required by the government to buy a car?

I can’t find a single law on any books in regards to it.

Maybe you can link to it.

Never said such a thing. No point in discussing view points you want me to have.

You didn’t link education to cars and guns? Look again, you did

Yes?
I didn’t say there was any education involved in buying cars.
So, you’re persistent in sticking things to me I don’t stand for. Uninterested.

 

[Montrovant]

Wow?, Do you think a 15 year old gang banger, or suicidal teen hopped up on antidepressants care if they have the legal right to buy a gun?

Try again, this time make a bit of sense.

"shall not be infringed". An age limit is an infringement.

Yes and no. One has to keep in mind that children do not have all the same Constitutional rights and protections that adults do.

An arbitrary raising of the age limit for guns to 21 years old is a problem IMO, though.

So you’re for infringement. Got it.

No right is absolute. However, an age limit does not necessarily constitute an infringement if the 'people' in question in the amendment does not include children.

There is no mention of an age restriction, nor does it limit the "people" to adults in the 2nd. It says "shall not be infringed". So where my right to own a nuke, or AA missiles?

That children do not have all the same rights and protections as adults applies to the entire Constitution.

What constitutes arms can be used to determine whether the amendment applies to owning nuclear weapons or anti-aircraft, as could the fact that those are not the sort of weapons one can generally "bear."

 

[Taz]

Yes and no. One has to keep in mind that children do not have all the same Constitutional rights and protections that adults do.

An arbitrary raising of the age limit for guns to 21 years old is a problem IMO, though.

So you’re for infringement. Got it.

No, I’m for educating idiots:

The minors “rights” are protected through the parent, or state appointed guardian.

Minors have diminished capacity, so not able to act in a reasonable condition”

Medscape: Medscape Access

So where is my 2nd right to own nukes or AA missiles?

And again with regard to age, it reads "shall not be infringed", which imo supercedes anything that comes after it, including an age restriction.

A nuke is not bearable

I mean, seriously. Obviously, you can talk to whomever you want, but just to warn you, if you address him as though he's an actual person, all you'll do is encourage him to vomit so much useless spam into the thread that it will be impossible for any real conversation to be had. Which, of course, is his entire purpose in showing up.

Ceci, my biggest fan, how cute.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The NRA would provide instructors to every elementary, middle, and/or high school in the country for free? That sounds extremely unlikely.

Have you asked them?


.

No. Have you? Does the NRA have the trained manpower to do that for every school in the country?

They've done it before you regressives ran them out of the schools. They could train teachers, it the military we called it train the trainers, it's a great way to get maximum use of resources.


.

Definitely one of the dumbest ideas ever. There is"stupid", there is "fucking stupid", and then there is "American stupid", like that idea right there.

Thanks for being a perfect example of my point.


.

That made no sense, drunky.

 

[OKTexas]

Have you asked them?


.

No. Have you? Does the NRA have the trained manpower to do that for every school in the country?

They've done it before you regressives ran them out of the schools. They could train teachers, it the military we called it train the trainers, it's a great way to get maximum use of resources.


.

Definitely one of the dumbest ideas ever. There is"stupid", there is "fucking stupid", and then there is "American stupid", like that idea right there.

Thanks for being a perfect example of my point.


.

That made no sense, drunky.

Of course it did, you're just too much of an ignorant regressive to see it. Carry on comrade. LMAO


.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

No. Have you? Does the NRA have the trained manpower to do that for every school in the country?

They've done it before you regressives ran them out of the schools. They could train teachers, it the military we called it train the trainers, it's a great way to get maximum use of resources.


.

Definitely one of the dumbest ideas ever. There is"stupid", there is "fucking stupid", and then there is "American stupid", like that idea right there.

Thanks for being a perfect example of my point.


.

That made no sense, drunky.

Of course it did, you're just too much of an ignorant regressive to see it. Carry on comrade. LMAO


.

Grown man typing fake LOLs =impotent frustration.

Yes, arming teachers is a painfully stupid idea. Naturally, you think it's swell.

 

[OKTexas]

They've done it before you regressives ran them out of the schools. They could train teachers, it the military we called it train the trainers, it's a great way to get maximum use of resources.


.

Definitely one of the dumbest ideas ever. There is"stupid", there is "fucking stupid", and then there is "American stupid", like that idea right there.

Thanks for being a perfect example of my point.


.

That made no sense, drunky.

Of course it did, you're just too much of an ignorant regressive to see it. Carry on comrade. LMAO


.

Grown man typing fake LOLs =impotent frustration.

Yes, arming teachers is a painfully stupid idea. Naturally, you think it's swell.

Actually it's not, but once again you prove your ignorance, the topic here is teaching basic gun safety to prevent accidents. So yes, I will laugh at you ignorance at will, carry on comrade.


.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Not so much.......that hunter safety course includes gun safety as well because it's for those hunting Modern Firearm AKA guns.

To own a gun in this country you already have to get a concealed or open carry permit before being able to purchase one, regardless what you intend to use it for. With that requirement, would it really be so bad to also require a safety course taught by military or police before purchasing a gun. It's not taking away any right to own any gun on the market. But it is teaching people the safety and hazards of owning one.

Currently there is no training and people buy guns, but they don't have the first clue how to use it, how to clean it, what a 'safety' is or where it's located even. They don't seem to have the first clue how to keep those guns 'secured' from others or how to avoid accidents.

They just think it's good to have a gun, with some ammo and prop it behind the bedroom door and think it's all good. WRONG!

Do you really think the issue is ignorance, rather than simple negligence?

True enough about negligence being a contributor. A safety course would give some kind of heads up though

And do almost nothing of statistical value. Roughly 99% of gun deaths are caused by A. Criminal activity and B. Suicide. Neither will be effected by training.

The other 1% is caused by carelessness. Those folks won’t be any less careless because they went to a class or two.

So, if there’s a point to all this, except, wouldn’t it be nice, please bring it forth.

If nothing else, it could appease the anti-gunners and still allow ownership of semi-autos & bump stocks or anything else they're targeting for banning

I don’t negotiate my rights aware

It’s a fools game

Bring a problem that this will solve and we will talk. Until then, I’ve heard of no such problem.

Actually I did.......the problem being the types of guns we can own are being banned and illegal to own. What good is a 6 shooter that you own legally if the criminal has an AR-15 from the black market?????

It's true that it's not up to me......but if so, I'd be willing to take some safety course and even periodic refresher courses....if it meant I could legally own my AR15, AK47, bumpstocks, etc. that are currently being taken away.

Sometimes to get what you want you have to give a little......so 'negotiating your rights' as you say is better than having them taken from you one gun at a time as is currently happening right under your nose.

 

[Flash]

[

Grown man typing fake LOLs =impotent frustration.

Yes, arming teachers is a painfully stupid idea. Naturally, you think it's swell.

You are confused Moon Bat.

Not arming teachers is a painfully stupid idea.