Shutting Down Debate and Criticism

[BluesLegend]

(sigh) okay name one "extreme" rightwing agenda item. Secure the borders, deport illegal bad guys, keep jobs in America, bring jobs and money back to America from other countries, kill terrorist fuckers who are running around cutting peoples heads off. None of that sounds "extreme" to me.

I didn't list any of those as extreme. I did list those which I do perceive to be extremely rightwing. Read my entire response.

I don't have time to read your manifesto, list the top 2 in 2 lines or less otherwise I'll move on.

Not my OP; my *response* of one paragraph 2 posts above in this post and bolded.

Ah, well you have no points. None of those people have done anything yet for you to get worked up about. There's nothing wrong with drilling in ANWR. And Global Warming is a bunch of crap, like the so called science behind it that advocates don't want peer reviewed or any opposition discussion at all. That every fucking proposed solution to global warming is a tax increase wow shocker.

Then address my concerns rationally with reasoning instead of invalidating them and shutting them down.

Oh good grief your concerns are not rational. Here let me give you some rational things to be concerned about. There WILL be another ice age. Mile high glaciers will grind NY City down to bedrock just like the last ice age did. This is scientific FACT. There now you have a climate concern proven beyond a doubt by science.

Now if you want something to be concerned about in the here and now, focus your attention on the large cities run by Democrats. These are human waste toxic pollution spewing environment killers. Are you aware of how much raw human sewage is allowed to spill untreated into public waterways by these cities? Hundreds of square miles of habitat paved over, obliterated. There now you have a real problem to be concerned with.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Here's the thing.... You're gonna hear "We Won, You Lost... sit down and shut up... Elections have Consequences!" I mean, don't fool yourself, that's what you;'re going to get, like it or not.

Fortunately, our system has been established with a mechanism of checks and balances to prevent the prevailing political party from being too fascist in governing. Many people will say we have a "two party system" but in reality, we have a "one party system" and that is whichever party has majority control of Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches of government. The minority party serves the roll of keeping the majority in check. In two years, we'll have more elections and power may shift again. This is just how politics work in America.

As for the polarization, that has been a serious problem since.... oh, probably around Bill Clinton's impeachment. I guess you could argue it goes further back, but that seems to be the point at which we became so vehemently divided as a nation and we've never recovered.

One of the things that I thought might be good about a Trump presidency is that he represents a political outsider who isn't loyal to either party, therefore, he has the potential to somewhat "reset" the table and bring us back to a more bipartisan state. I don't know that this will happen, especially given the way the left seems to be digging in their heels and determined to try and obstruct him at ever turn, but.... here's the thing about that.... they virtually lost all their political power this go around and it will be hard for them to block anything by themselves. They are literally going to be forced to start compromising and working with Republicans to get anything done.

I agree with much of what you've written here. But I've seen Democrats saying they are willing to work with the new administration and the GOP. Senator Schumer, Senator Booker, Senator Warren, and Senator Sanders to name a few.

 

[B. Kidd]

Sounds like what Republicans were told when Obama took office. We won so shut up. I remember that.

Please read the entire OP.

Your OP 'sucks balls'. Democraps haven't been willing to compromise since 'Hector was a pup'..........and that was a long, long time ago, in a faraway galaxy.

So you're just gonna validate everything I wrote in the OP? Ok. Thanks. I'm not a Democrat.

Whatever your politics are, you sound like a wolf in sheeps' clothing.

I'm a liberal registered Independent.

Oh. So you murdered your parents and then threw yourself on the mercy of the court because you are an orphan. Got it! (that'll make him think, if he can, for awhile......)

 

[B. Kidd]

Here's the thing.... You're gonna hear "We Won, You Lost... sit down and shut up... Elections have Consequences!" I mean, don't fool yourself, that's what you;'re going to get, like it or not.

Fortunately, our system has been established with a mechanism of checks and balances to prevent the prevailing political party from being too fascist in governing. Many people will say we have a "two party system" but in reality, we have a "one party system" and that is whichever party has majority control of Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches of government. The minority party serves the roll of keeping the majority in check. In two years, we'll have more elections and power may shift again. This is just how politics work in America.

As for the polarization, that has been a serious problem since.... oh, probably around Bill Clinton's impeachment. I guess you could argue it goes further back, but that seems to be the point at which we became so vehemently divided as a nation and we've never recovered.

One of the things that I thought might be good about a Trump presidency is that he represents a political outsider who isn't loyal to either party, therefore, he has the potential to somewhat "reset" the table and bring us back to a more bipartisan state. I don't know that this will happen, especially given the way the left seems to be digging in their heels and determined to try and obstruct him at ever turn, but.... here's the thing about that.... they virtually lost all their political power this go around and it will be hard for them to block anything by themselves. They are literally going to be forced to start compromising and working with Republicans to get anything done.

I agree with much of what you've written here. But I've seen Democrats saying they are willing to work with the new administration and the GOP. Senator Schumer, Senator Booker, Senator Warren, and Senator Sanders to name a few.

And you believe their horseshit.

 

[Zander]

How dare Trump save 1100 jobs in Indiana!! He should of imported some more Muslims!!

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

He just told United Technologies big wigs that tax changes are coming and they include lower corporate tax rates (both the GOP and the DEM's agree on this) and that there would be new tariff rules on US corporations that shift production overseas and then try to bring the product back into the USA (the DEM's agree with this and the GOP leadership will be his worst opponents on this ironically).

Additionally Chuck Schumer as the new Senate Minority Leader has plenty of filibuster power to use as a veto of his own. I am guessing he will veto any changes to ACA. Just a guess.

Schumer can attempt a filibuster, but Obamacare was passed using "budget reconciliation". It can be repealed the same way. No filibuster can stop it. All that is required is a simple majority.

 

[Zander]

When a Democrat politician says he is "willing to work with Republicans" .....

 

[B. Kidd]

When a Democrat politician says he is "willing to work with Republicans" .....

Holds up, until they prove different, no matter what they say........

 

[initforme]

As long ad carrier degrees to increase the wages of those jobs big time then its fine. Problem is the CEO gets big bucks for doing nothing while they underpay workers...welcome to america. Some of you call it great...me? Meh....not so much.

 

[initforme]

Crickets.....can't counter me. Knew that going in.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Here's the thing.... You're gonna hear "We Won, You Lost... sit down and shut up... Elections have Consequences!" I mean, don't fool yourself, that's what you;'re going to get, like it or not.

Fortunately, our system has been established with a mechanism of checks and balances to prevent the prevailing political party from being too fascist in governing. Many people will say we have a "two party system" but in reality, we have a "one party system" and that is whichever party has majority control of Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches of government. The minority party serves the roll of keeping the majority in check. In two years, we'll have more elections and power may shift again. This is just how politics work in America.

As for the polarization, that has been a serious problem since.... oh, probably around Bill Clinton's impeachment. I guess you could argue it goes further back, but that seems to be the point at which we became so vehemently divided as a nation and we've never recovered.

One of the things that I thought might be good about a Trump presidency is that he represents a political outsider who isn't loyal to either party, therefore, he has the potential to somewhat "reset" the table and bring us back to a more bipartisan state. I don't know that this will happen, especially given the way the left seems to be digging in their heels and determined to try and obstruct him at ever turn, but.... here's the thing about that.... they virtually lost all their political power this go around and it will be hard for them to block anything by themselves. They are literally going to be forced to start compromising and working with Republicans to get anything done.

I agree with much of what you've written here. But I've seen Democrats saying they are willing to work with the new administration and the GOP. Senator Schumer, Senator Booker, Senator Warren, and Senator Sanders to name a few.

And you believe their horseshit.

It is impossible to communicate with you. Will your arrogance continue if and when the US at some point in the future elects a non-conservative? I'd bet it will.

Eat big girth turds, yeast infection.

 

[B. Kidd]

Crickets.....can't counter me. Knew that going in.

Impossible to counter an incoherent post........

 

[B. Kidd]

Here's the thing.... You're gonna hear "We Won, You Lost... sit down and shut up... Elections have Consequences!" I mean, don't fool yourself, that's what you;'re going to get, like it or not.

Fortunately, our system has been established with a mechanism of checks and balances to prevent the prevailing political party from being too fascist in governing. Many people will say we have a "two party system" but in reality, we have a "one party system" and that is whichever party has majority control of Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches of government. The minority party serves the roll of keeping the majority in check. In two years, we'll have more elections and power may shift again. This is just how politics work in America.

As for the polarization, that has been a serious problem since.... oh, probably around Bill Clinton's impeachment. I guess you could argue it goes further back, but that seems to be the point at which we became so vehemently divided as a nation and we've never recovered.

One of the things that I thought might be good about a Trump presidency is that he represents a political outsider who isn't loyal to either party, therefore, he has the potential to somewhat "reset" the table and bring us back to a more bipartisan state. I don't know that this will happen, especially given the way the left seems to be digging in their heels and determined to try and obstruct him at ever turn, but.... here's the thing about that.... they virtually lost all their political power this go around and it will be hard for them to block anything by themselves. They are literally going to be forced to start compromising and working with Republicans to get anything done.

I agree with much of what you've written here. But I've seen Democrats saying they are willing to work with the new administration and the GOP. Senator Schumer, Senator Booker, Senator Warren, and Senator Sanders to name a few.

And you believe their horseshit.

It is impossible to communicate with you. Will your arrogance continue if and when the US at some point in the future elects a non-conservative? I'd bet it will.

Eat big girth turds, yeast infection.

It must suck to be you...... an orphan.........

 

[initforme]

B Kidd I question your patriotism....my this is fun.

 

[initforme]

As I have said and idiots like you cannot understand is that any american worth a pinch of crap believes american citizens should be paid at least double for the same exact work done by illegals. Otherwise I cannot recognize youy as a fellow american. Does this make sense? Except some will say no let the market decide. Then you will complain when nobody applies for those jobs....lazy you will say. This is where the market goes against america.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

There is a seat for you, in the back of the bus.

Elections have consequences

We may pass legislation via back room deals and without a single democrat vote.



Remember any of that? Yeah? Then stop fucking whining.

Whatever, you're a nevertrumper who jumped on the bandwagon. I used to respect your stances, but now you've lost all-credibility. I hope you sit on a black dildo. On accident.

Jumped on the Trump bandwagon? He's president now dumbass. Are you going to leave the country since he won or hope that he succeeds?
And btw I was not a never Trumper. Such stances are stupid & only serve to box you into a corner. I was a critic of the stupidity he spewed.
He won, put on your big boy pants, man up & get the fuck over it.

 

[Boss]

Here's the thing.... You're gonna hear "We Won, You Lost... sit down and shut up... Elections have Consequences!" I mean, don't fool yourself, that's what you;'re going to get, like it or not.

Fortunately, our system has been established with a mechanism of checks and balances to prevent the prevailing political party from being too fascist in governing. Many people will say we have a "two party system" but in reality, we have a "one party system" and that is whichever party has majority control of Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches of government. The minority party serves the roll of keeping the majority in check. In two years, we'll have more elections and power may shift again. This is just how politics work in America.

As for the polarization, that has been a serious problem since.... oh, probably around Bill Clinton's impeachment. I guess you could argue it goes further back, but that seems to be the point at which we became so vehemently divided as a nation and we've never recovered.

One of the things that I thought might be good about a Trump presidency is that he represents a political outsider who isn't loyal to either party, therefore, he has the potential to somewhat "reset" the table and bring us back to a more bipartisan state. I don't know that this will happen, especially given the way the left seems to be digging in their heels and determined to try and obstruct him at ever turn, but.... here's the thing about that.... they virtually lost all their political power this go around and it will be hard for them to block anything by themselves. They are literally going to be forced to start compromising and working with Republicans to get anything done.

I agree with much of what you've written here. But I've seen Democrats saying they are willing to work with the new administration and the GOP. Senator Schumer, Senator Booker, Senator Warren, and Senator Sanders to name a few.

I guess that was sort of what I was getting at... they're going to have to either work with the administration or they'll have to form a coalition with other republicans. They can't do much on their own. I think Trump is going to end up being more of a centrist president and that's not really a bad thing. Extremists from both sides may not like it but it's probably the best case scenario for everyone.

The point is... this isn't going to be some awful terrible reign of tyranny the left is making it out to be and it's also not going to be some authoritarian alt-right wet dream. I'm just hoping for a more conservative philosophy... not right-wing ideology, but general philosophy. That suits me just fine and I think America will be better off for it.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

How dare Trump save 1100 jobs in Indiana!!

The contrast is stark! Before Trump even assumes the office, he's accomplished more than the golfer did FOR America during his entire 8 years of living it up at the Taxpayer's expense.

 

[Boss]

As I have said and idiots like you cannot understand is that any american worth a pinch of crap believes american citizens should be paid at least double for the same exact work done by illegals. Otherwise I cannot recognize youy as a fellow american. Does this make sense? Except some will say no let the market decide. Then you will complain when nobody applies for those jobs....lazy you will say. This is where the market goes against america.

The thing is, we can't allow YOU to determine what people should be paid. The free market system HAS to determine this if you want to fix the economy. Illegal aliens don't need to be employed. They need to be deported and anyone who is employing them, knowing they are here illegally, needs to be jailed or fined.

What you need to understand is that free market capitalism and corporatism are two entirely different things. Corporations who have bought political influence are more detrimental to free market capitalism than socialism. We've got to reel in the power of government so there is nothing for the corporatist to influence and let the free market system flourish as it is intended. If we do that, the problems with wages will fix themselves.

 

[Kosh]

So this thread proves the OP was asleep the last eight years!

 

[initforme]

The market isn't always correct