Sick and tired of US debate on raising the min. wage.

[Toddsterpatriot]

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

Exactly!

Who cares if unskilled workers can never find a first time job?
Who cares if po black folk don't have decent food available near their homes?

Fuck all y'all, eh?

Who cares if Kroger workers have to borrow $10,000 a year to pay for college because Kroger wont pay a wage over $7.25?

Who cares if the taxpayer has to subsidize the food and housing of that struggling black family because Kroger won’t pay over $7.25 an hour?

Who cares if Kroger workers have to borrow $10,000 a year to pay for college because Kroger wont pay a wage over $7.25?

Imagine how much they'll have to borrow with their $0 Kroger check......

Who cares if the taxpayer has to subsidize the food and housing of that struggling black family because Kroger won’t pay over $7.25 an hour?

You're right, the taxpayer subsidy will be lower when they earn $0 an hour.

More drama about everyone will lose their jobs if minimum wage is increased. Min wage has been increased for 80 years. We are still the wealthiest nation on earth. it just hasn’t trickled down.

Employers just got a 40 percent tax cut. But claim they will go out of business if they have to pay more than $7.25

More drama about everyone will lose their jobs if minimum wage is increased.

Not everyone. Just the least skilled. And the ones never hired.

Employers just got a 40 percent tax cut. But claim they will go out of business if they have to pay more than $7.25

Grocery stores are a low margin business. About 2%.
Won't take much to drive some out of business.

What's the tax on zero in profits?

 

[dblack]

Seriously, Asclepias - don't you get how consumers drive the market?

 

[dblack]

If we actually drove it then the wages and prices would be uniformly the same.

Why? People value things differently. Different regions value things differently.

That contradicts your claim that "we" dont value certain people because of their jobs.

How?

(Also, I didn't say we don't value certain people. That's your own conceit, added to inject a moral, emotional component in to an otherwise rational argument.)

I'm getting sleepy. Someone said it. I thought it was you.

I said we don't value burger flipping very much. It's not a service we're willing to pay very much for.

 

[beautress]

Have a lovely evening, all.

 

[Asclepias]

If we actually drove it then the wages and prices would be uniformly the same.

Why? People value things differently. Different regions value things differently.

That contradicts your claim that "we" dont value certain people because of their jobs.

How?

(Also, I didn't say we don't value certain people. That's your own conceit, added to inject a moral, emotional component in to an otherwise rational argument.)

I'm getting sleepy. Someone said it. I thought it was you.

I said we don't value burger flipping very much. It's not a service we're willing to pay very much for.

Right but some burger flippers get paid more or less than others. Thats set by the business

 

[Oldestyle]

Minimum wage is a horseshit issue. But, it stirs up the dummies and gives government more power - so it's irresistible to Democrats.

aAnd stuffing the pockets of the rich is irresistible to the GOP, next?

That's it? "The Republicans are just as bad"? Weak.

The better comparison, if you want to point to equally stupid Republican policies, would be the border wall. It's an empty gesture that placates their idiot base.

Let's talk common sense, Dblack! You can have an entitlement society or you can have unsecure borders. You cannot have both at the same time because you'll never be able to pay for it!

Huh? What's your point? I don't want an entitlement society.

If you don't have an entitlement society then you can have open borders because people won't flood those borders for the entitlements. That is my "point"?

Ahh - ok. I agree then. The wall doesn't really secure the border, any more than minimum wage makes poor people better off. That was my point.

Do you agree that we could make the border more secure than it is now? Can you give me any reason why we shouldn't? After all we live in a world where there are people outside of our borders that have sworn to kill us. So why haven't we? Why is the left SO determined that our southern border be as porous as possible and that any illegals who are detained be released? Can you give me the reasoning behind those things?

 

[Asclepias]

Minimum wage is a horseshit issue. But, it stirs up the dummies and gives government more power - so it's irresistible to Democrats.

aAnd stuffing the pockets of the rich is irresistible to the GOP, next?

That's it? "The Republicans are just as bad"? Weak.

The better comparison, if you want to point to equally stupid Republican policies, would be the border wall. It's an empty gesture that placates their idiot base.

Let's talk common sense, Dblack! You can have an entitlement society or you can have unsecure borders. You cannot have both at the same time because you'll never be able to pay for it!

Huh? What's your point? I don't want an entitlement society.

If you don't have an entitlement society then you can have open borders because people won't flood those borders for the entitlements. That is my "point"?

Ahh - ok. I agree then. The wall doesn't really secure the border, any more than minimum wage makes poor people better off. That was my point.

Do you agree that we could make the border more secure than it is now? Can you give me any reason why we shouldn't? After all we live in a world where there are people outside of our borders that have sworn to kill us. So why haven't we? Why is the left SO determined that our southern border be as porous as possible and that any illegals who are detained be released? Can you give me the reasoning behind those things?

Its racist and we should be concentrating on the domestic terrorists that abound in this country and are the number 1 threat.

 

[dblack]

If we actually drove it then the wages and prices would be uniformly the same.

Why? People value things differently. Different regions value things differently.

That contradicts your claim that "we" dont value certain people because of their jobs.

How?

(Also, I didn't say we don't value certain people. That's your own conceit, added to inject a moral, emotional component in to an otherwise rational argument.)

I'm getting sleepy. Someone said it. I thought it was you.

I said we don't value burger flipping very much. It's not a service we're willing to pay very much for.

Right but some burger flippers get paid more or less than others. Thats set by the business

But their decision is driven by the market, by how much people are will to pay for the service they offer. On both sides, their decisions regarding wages and prices are constrained by what the market will bear - if they offer wages that are too low, they'll have a hard time getting skilled employees, if they set prices too high, they'll lose business.

Mandating wages for burger flipping doesn't change how much we value burger flipping. It just gives government more power, which is the goal.

 

[dblack]

Do you agree that we could make the border more secure than it is now?

Sure. But I'm not that worried about it. I'm not afraid of someone "threatening" to mow my lawn for cheap. Mexicans haven't "sworn to kill us". They love us. We give them jobs.

 

[Oldestyle]

" we don't value what they do very much.

Liberals don't get how value is determined in a free society. It's determined by all of us. The reason burger flippers don't make much money is that we don't value what they do very much. If you force people to pay more to have their burgers flipped, many of them will choose to flip their own burgers. And burger flippers will be out of work.

Anyway, I suppose some of them do get this - but they don't like it. They want government to be in charge of setting wages and prices. That's what minimum wage is all about.

" we don't value what they do very much. "

Speak for yourself.

I don't have to. Society expresses itself clearly via the market. $10 quarter pounders won't sell. '

You Qannon believers dont value much be we do.

LOL - I'm not a Qanon believer. I'm not a Trumpster. I'm not a Republican. I just like idiotic state policy.

Just messing with you.
The market didnt tell the business to stiff the workers.

Yeah, it did. You did. Would you spend $10 for a quarter pounder? If not, you're part of the problem.

I wouldnt spend 10 cents on a quarter pounder. That shit is horrible for your health.

Ok, so my point stands - burger flippers don't make very much because we don't value what they do very much.

No your point never stood. I value people that work to take care of their families and free up money for other people to use that really need it. (Welfare)

So you want a society as North korea

When did I mention North Korea?

What you just subscribed...that's just working for necessities and giving the rest away .

Your mind is stuck in binary mode because of the fear of loss big business is marketing to you. Its not either or. There is a happy medium where you can make profit and pay your employees $15 and hour. If you cant then you dont deserve to own a business.

In rural areas? Show me how the numbers work on that, Milkweed! I ran businesses. I understand what the margins are. I understand the difference between cities like New York and small towns in rural areas like North Dakota.

 

[Asclepias]

If we actually drove it then the wages and prices would be uniformly the same.

Why? People value things differently. Different regions value things differently.

That contradicts your claim that "we" dont value certain people because of their jobs.

How?

(Also, I didn't say we don't value certain people. That's your own conceit, added to inject a moral, emotional component in to an otherwise rational argument.)

I'm getting sleepy. Someone said it. I thought it was you.

I said we don't value burger flipping very much. It's not a service we're willing to pay very much for.

Right but some burger flippers get paid more or less than others. Thats set by the business

But their decision is driven by the market, by how much people are will to pay for the service they offer. On both sides, their decisions regarding wages and prices are constrained by what the market will bear - if they offer wages that are too low, they'll have a hard time getting skilled employees, if they set prices too high, they'll lose business.

Mandating wages for burger flipping doesn't change how much we value burger flipping. It just gives government more power, which is the goal.

Thats kind of contradictory too. Doesnt take much skill to flip a burger so they could pay even less and still have plenty of "skilled" labor if they could get away with it. You have to realize that the ceo of these companies make millions of dollars to make sure they do what the share holders want. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree. It used to work like that but it hasnt in centuries.

 

[Asclepias]

" we don't value what they do very much.

Liberals don't get how value is determined in a free society. It's determined by all of us. The reason burger flippers don't make much money is that we don't value what they do very much. If you force people to pay more to have their burgers flipped, many of them will choose to flip their own burgers. And burger flippers will be out of work.

Anyway, I suppose some of them do get this - but they don't like it. They want government to be in charge of setting wages and prices. That's what minimum wage is all about.

" we don't value what they do very much. "

Speak for yourself.

I don't have to. Society expresses itself clearly via the market. $10 quarter pounders won't sell. '

You Qannon believers dont value much be we do.

LOL - I'm not a Qanon believer. I'm not a Trumpster. I'm not a Republican. I just like idiotic state policy.

Just messing with you.
The market didnt tell the business to stiff the workers.

Yeah, it did. You did. Would you spend $10 for a quarter pounder? If not, you're part of the problem.

I wouldnt spend 10 cents on a quarter pounder. That shit is horrible for your health.

Ok, so my point stands - burger flippers don't make very much because we don't value what they do very much.

No your point never stood. I value people that work to take care of their families and free up money for other people to use that really need it. (Welfare)

So you want a society as North korea

When did I mention North Korea?

What you just subscribed...that's just working for necessities and giving the rest away .

Your mind is stuck in binary mode because of the fear of loss big business is marketing to you. Its not either or. There is a happy medium where you can make profit and pay your employees $15 and hour. If you cant then you dont deserve to own a business.

In rural areas? Show me how the numbers work on that, Milkweed! I ran businesses. I understand what the margins are. I understand the difference between cities like New York and small towns in rural areas like North Dakota.

Even in rural areas. My spreadsheet is broken now and I am tired.

 

[dblack]

Doesnt take much skill to flip a burger so they could pay even less and still have plenty of "skilled" labor if they could get away with it.

The reason they can't get away with it is because they won't fill the jobs if they pay even less. That's why most of them already pay more than the minimum wage.

You have to realize that the ceo of these companies make millions of dollars to make sure they do what the share holders want. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

It's not a matter of opinion. It's a fact of economics. And economics is where liberals get just as delusional as qanon Trumpsters.

 

[Asclepias]

Doesnt take much skill to flip a burger so they could pay even less and still have plenty of "skilled" labor if they could get away with it.

The reason they can't get away with it is because they won't fill the jobs if they pay even less. That's why most of them already pay more than the minimum wage.

You have to realize that the ceo of these companies make millions of dollars to make sure they do what the share holders want. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

It's not a matter of opinion. It's a fact of economics. And economics is where liberals get just as delusional as qanon Trumpsters.

" The reason they can't get away with it is because they won't fill the jobs if they pay even less. "

I know people here illegally that make way less doing much harder work.

 

[Oldestyle]

Do you agree that we could make the border more secure than it is now?

Sure. But I'm not that worried about it. I'm not afraid of someone "threatening" to mow my lawn for cheap. Mexicans haven't "sworn to kill us". They love us. We give them jobs.

I'm not worried about most Mexicans either, Dblack! I am worried about Mexican narco terrorists. I'm also worred about Al Queda and it's offshoots. They DON'T love us! They hate us with a burning passion.

 

[dblack]

Doesnt take much skill to flip a burger so they could pay even less and still have plenty of "skilled" labor if they could get away with it.

The reason they can't get away with it is because they won't fill the jobs if they pay even less. That's why most of them already pay more than the minimum wage.

You have to realize that the ceo of these companies make millions of dollars to make sure they do what the share holders want. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

It's not a matter of opinion. It's a fact of economics. And economics is where liberals get just as delusional as qanon Trumpsters.

" The reason they can't get away with it is because they won't fill the jobs if they pay even less. "

I know people here illegally that make way less doing much harder work.

Uh... ok, but you said they'd pay even less if they could get away with it. But that can't (get away with it), and it's not because of the minimum wage. They're already paying over the minimum wage, because the actual market value is more than that.

 

[Oldestyle]

" we don't value what they do very much.

Liberals don't get how value is determined in a free society. It's determined by all of us. The reason burger flippers don't make much money is that we don't value what they do very much. If you force people to pay more to have their burgers flipped, many of them will choose to flip their own burgers. And burger flippers will be out of work.

Anyway, I suppose some of them do get this - but they don't like it. They want government to be in charge of setting wages and prices. That's what minimum wage is all about.

" we don't value what they do very much. "

Speak for yourself.

I don't have to. Society expresses itself clearly via the market. $10 quarter pounders won't sell. '

You Qannon believers dont value much be we do.

LOL - I'm not a Qanon believer. I'm not a Trumpster. I'm not a Republican. I just like idiotic state policy.

Just messing with you.
The market didnt tell the business to stiff the workers.

Yeah, it did. You did. Would you spend $10 for a quarter pounder? If not, you're part of the problem.

I wouldnt spend 10 cents on a quarter pounder. That shit is horrible for your health.

Ok, so my point stands - burger flippers don't make very much because we don't value what they do very much.

No your point never stood. I value people that work to take care of their families and free up money for other people to use that really need it. (Welfare)

So you want a society as North korea

When did I mention North Korea?

What you just subscribed...that's just working for necessities and giving the rest away .

Your mind is stuck in binary mode because of the fear of loss big business is marketing to you. Its not either or. There is a happy medium where you can make profit and pay your employees $15 and hour. If you cant then you dont deserve to own a business.

In rural areas? Show me how the numbers work on that, Milkweed! I ran businesses. I understand what the margins are. I understand the difference between cities like New York and small towns in rural areas like North Dakota.

Even in rural areas. My spreadsheet is broken now and I am tired.

You need a spreadsheet to explain how the same minimum wage is going to work in areas that are night and day apart when it comes to cost of living?

 

[Asclepias]

" we don't value what they do very much.

Liberals don't get how value is determined in a free society. It's determined by all of us. The reason burger flippers don't make much money is that we don't value what they do very much. If you force people to pay more to have their burgers flipped, many of them will choose to flip their own burgers. And burger flippers will be out of work.

Anyway, I suppose some of them do get this - but they don't like it. They want government to be in charge of setting wages and prices. That's what minimum wage is all about.

" we don't value what they do very much. "

Speak for yourself.

I don't have to. Society expresses itself clearly via the market. $10 quarter pounders won't sell. '

You Qannon believers dont value much be we do.

LOL - I'm not a Qanon believer. I'm not a Trumpster. I'm not a Republican. I just like idiotic state policy.

Just messing with you.
The market didnt tell the business to stiff the workers.

Yeah, it did. You did. Would you spend $10 for a quarter pounder? If not, you're part of the problem.

I wouldnt spend 10 cents on a quarter pounder. That shit is horrible for your health.

Ok, so my point stands - burger flippers don't make very much because we don't value what they do very much.

No your point never stood. I value people that work to take care of their families and free up money for other people to use that really need it. (Welfare)

So you want a society as North korea

When did I mention North Korea?

What you just subscribed...that's just working for necessities and giving the rest away .

Your mind is stuck in binary mode because of the fear of loss big business is marketing to you. Its not either or. There is a happy medium where you can make profit and pay your employees $15 and hour. If you cant then you dont deserve to own a business.

In rural areas? Show me how the numbers work on that, Milkweed! I ran businesses. I understand what the margins are. I understand the difference between cities like New York and small towns in rural areas like North Dakota.

Even in rural areas. My spreadsheet is broken now and I am tired.

You need a spreadsheet to explain how the same minimum wage is going to work in areas that are night and day apart when it comes to cost of living?

Yes. There are more variables to it than just the cost of living.

 

[Oldestyle]

Doesnt take much skill to flip a burger so they could pay even less and still have plenty of "skilled" labor if they could get away with it.

The reason they can't get away with it is because they won't fill the jobs if they pay even less. That's why most of them already pay more than the minimum wage.

You have to realize that the ceo of these companies make millions of dollars to make sure they do what the share holders want. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

It's not a matter of opinion. It's a fact of economics. And economics is where liberals get just as delusional as qanon Trumpsters.

" The reason they can't get away with it is because they won't fill the jobs if they pay even less. "

I know people here illegally that make way less doing much harder work.

Uh... ok, but you said they'd pay even less if they could get away with it. But that can't (get away with it), and it's not because of the minimum wage. They're already paying over the minimum wage, because the actual market value is more than that.

What Milkweed doesn't grasp...having obviously never been an employer...is that training new employees is an expensive proposition that costs a business at the outset. The last thing any competent manager would do is let one of those employees walk away because they're getting paid less than they're worth after taking a loss by training them! I gave raises to good employees because it made sense from a business standpoint...not because the government mandated it.

 

[Oldestyle]

" we don't value what they do very much.

Liberals don't get how value is determined in a free society. It's determined by all of us. The reason burger flippers don't make much money is that we don't value what they do very much. If you force people to pay more to have their burgers flipped, many of them will choose to flip their own burgers. And burger flippers will be out of work.

Anyway, I suppose some of them do get this - but they don't like it. They want government to be in charge of setting wages and prices. That's what minimum wage is all about.

" we don't value what they do very much. "

Speak for yourself.

I don't have to. Society expresses itself clearly via the market. $10 quarter pounders won't sell. '

You Qannon believers dont value much be we do.

LOL - I'm not a Qanon believer. I'm not a Trumpster. I'm not a Republican. I just like idiotic state policy.

Just messing with you.
The market didnt tell the business to stiff the workers.

Yeah, it did. You did. Would you spend $10 for a quarter pounder? If not, you're part of the problem.

I wouldnt spend 10 cents on a quarter pounder. That shit is horrible for your health.

Ok, so my point stands - burger flippers don't make very much because we don't value what they do very much.

No your point never stood. I value people that work to take care of their families and free up money for other people to use that really need it. (Welfare)

So you want a society as North korea

When did I mention North Korea?

What you just subscribed...that's just working for necessities and giving the rest away .

Your mind is stuck in binary mode because of the fear of loss big business is marketing to you. Its not either or. There is a happy medium where you can make profit and pay your employees $15 and hour. If you cant then you dont deserve to own a business.

In rural areas? Show me how the numbers work on that, Milkweed! I ran businesses. I understand what the margins are. I understand the difference between cities like New York and small towns in rural areas like North Dakota.

Even in rural areas. My spreadsheet is broken now and I am tired.

You need a spreadsheet to explain how the same minimum wage is going to work in areas that are night and day apart when it comes to cost of living?

Yes. There are more variables to it than just the cost of living.

There are...but let's start with that. How does a national minimum wage take into account the cost of living in different areas of the country?