Sick and tired of US debate on raising the min. wage.

[San Souci]

Joe Biden, as do most economist wants to raise the min. wage to 15.00 an hour, from the poultry 7.25 as it stands today. Most workers of course do not make 7.25 an hour as we all know, most are making btwn 8-12 an hour, with 12.00 being the standard. However, this debate has got to come to an end and real work, not words have to prevail this time.

For the last 12 years Wall Street as has Main Street retailers via online venues, all have seen profits soar to historic levels and Trump rallied and braged on how rich the rich was getting especially his last 4 years, not only with tax cuts but with market growths...so this bullshit about ppl will lose jobs...tired of hearing about it.

And waiting on a recovery from this pandemic will take another decade, if not more with so many business's, closing. However, NOBODY AND I MEAN NOBODY WILL MAKE A DIME, OUTSIDE OF SPECULATORS AND HEDGE FUNDERS on WALL STREET, WITHOUT CONSUMER SPENDING.

Its time Biden, congress and the senate take the effort, the vote and raise the min. wage to a level that can not only help families regroup again with a new job focus, but also help business's grow also. Amazon raised wages profits only grew. Some companies will have to fold, welcome to life!! But at least the owner can go out and find a job paying 15 bucks an hour vs 7.25.

Bullshit. No burger is worth $15 per hour. Or any other unskilled job.Business should compete for the MOST talented ,skilled ,and savvy workers. Mediocre should NOT be rewarded.

Pretty sure one burger maker on average makes about $100-$200 worth of burgers in an hour.

Left a word out. Unskilled labor should be payed what the EMPLOYER offers.

And the employer is forced to offer at least minimum wage or go do business in china.

So much for free choice, eh comrade

No such thing as free choice or no one would have to pay for anything.

Like HealthCare?

Healthcare isnt free either. At least not for everyone.

But Libs WANT it free. Which means higher TAX.

 

[San Souci]

" we don't value what they do very much.

Liberals don't get how value is determined in a free society. It's determined by all of us. The reason burger flippers don't make much money is that we don't value what they do very much. If you force people to pay more to have their burgers flipped, many of them will choose to flip their own burgers. And burger flippers will be out of work.

Anyway, I suppose some of them do get this - but they don't like it. They want government to be in charge of setting wages and prices. That's what minimum wage is all about.

" we don't value what they do very much. "

Speak for yourself.

I don't have to. Society expresses itself clearly via the market. $10 quarter pounders won't sell. '

You Qannon believers dont value much be we do.

LOL - I'm not a Qanon believer. I'm not a Trumpster. I'm not a Republican. I just like idiotic state policy.

Just messing with you.
The market didnt tell the business to stiff the workers.

Yeah, it did. You did. Would you spend $10 for a quarter pounder? If not, you're part of the problem.

I wouldnt spend 10 cents on a quarter pounder. That shit is horrible for your health.

Ok, so my point stands - burger flippers don't make very much because we don't value what they do very much.

No your point never stood. I value people that work to take care of their families and free up money for other people to use that really need it. (Welfare)

So you want a society as North korea

When did I mention North Korea?

What you just subscribed...that's just working for necessities and giving the rest away .

Your mind is stuck in binary mode because of the fear of loss big business is marketing to you. Its not either or. There is a happy medium where you can make profit and pay your employees $15 and hour. If you cant then you dont deserve to own a business.

In rural areas? Show me how the numbers work on that, Milkweed! I ran businesses. I understand what the margins are. I understand the difference between cities like New York and small towns in rural areas like North Dakota.

Even in rural areas. My spreadsheet is broken now and I am tired.

You need a spreadsheet to explain how the same minimum wage is going to work in areas that are night and day apart when it comes to cost of living?

Yes. There are more variables to it than just the cost of living.

There are...but let's start with that. How does a national minimum wage take into account the cost of living in different areas of the country?

Doesn't matter. $15 per hour would break many small businesses and cause LARGE companies to outsource,

 

[Oldestyle]

" we don't value what they do very much.

Liberals don't get how value is determined in a free society. It's determined by all of us. The reason burger flippers don't make much money is that we don't value what they do very much. If you force people to pay more to have their burgers flipped, many of them will choose to flip their own burgers. And burger flippers will be out of work.

Anyway, I suppose some of them do get this - but they don't like it. They want government to be in charge of setting wages and prices. That's what minimum wage is all about.

" we don't value what they do very much. "

Speak for yourself.

I don't have to. Society expresses itself clearly via the market. $10 quarter pounders won't sell. '

You Qannon believers dont value much be we do.

LOL - I'm not a Qanon believer. I'm not a Trumpster. I'm not a Republican. I just like idiotic state policy.

Just messing with you.
The market didnt tell the business to stiff the workers.

Yeah, it did. You did. Would you spend $10 for a quarter pounder? If not, you're part of the problem.

I wouldnt spend 10 cents on a quarter pounder. That shit is horrible for your health.

Ok, so my point stands - burger flippers don't make very much because we don't value what they do very much.

No your point never stood. I value people that work to take care of their families and free up money for other people to use that really need it. (Welfare)

So you want a society as North korea

When did I mention North Korea?

What you just subscribed...that's just working for necessities and giving the rest away .

Your mind is stuck in binary mode because of the fear of loss big business is marketing to you. Its not either or. There is a happy medium where you can make profit and pay your employees $15 and hour. If you cant then you dont deserve to own a business.

In rural areas? Show me how the numbers work on that, Milkweed! I ran businesses. I understand what the margins are. I understand the difference between cities like New York and small towns in rural areas like North Dakota.

Even in rural areas. My spreadsheet is broken now and I am tired.

You need a spreadsheet to explain how the same minimum wage is going to work in areas that are night and day apart when it comes to cost of living?

Yes. There are more variables to it than just the cost of living.

There are...but let's start with that. How does a national minimum wage take into account the cost of living in different areas of the country?

Doesn't matter. $15 per hour would break many small businesses and cause LARGE companies to outsource,

I'm quite aware of that. It's why I want Milkweed to explain how it works. It's details like that that make the concept of a national minimum wage a non starter. This isn't about a rational solution to a problem though because even a cursory examination of the issue makes it rather obvious that it doesn't work.

 

[Jarlaxle]

One of the things a lot of people miss with this topic is the unintended consequences...

I work in a Union environment. If the $10 an hour call center operators get an upgrade to $15 an hour then my $40 an hour job (4x the Operator pay) has to go up to $60 an hour. Imagine what that would require the company to do with our electric rates (I work for a utility company).

Or outsource to India for calls.

 

[Jarlaxle]

One of the things a lot of people miss with this topic is the unintended consequences...

I work in a Union environment. If the $10 an hour call center operators get an upgrade to $15 an hour then my $40 an hour job (4x the Operator pay) has to go up to $60 an hour. Imagine what that would require the company to do with our electric rates (I work for a utility company).

" has to go up to $60 "

Nothing has to go up because someone else got a raise. That can always be renegotiated.

In many cases, it does. Many government union contracts are tied to minimum wage.

 

[San Souci]

" we don't value what they do very much.

Liberals don't get how value is determined in a free society. It's determined by all of us. The reason burger flippers don't make much money is that we don't value what they do very much. If you force people to pay more to have their burgers flipped, many of them will choose to flip their own burgers. And burger flippers will be out of work.

Anyway, I suppose some of them do get this - but they don't like it. They want government to be in charge of setting wages and prices. That's what minimum wage is all about.

" we don't value what they do very much. "

Speak for yourself.

I don't have to. Society expresses itself clearly via the market. $10 quarter pounders won't sell. '

You Qannon believers dont value much be we do.

LOL - I'm not a Qanon believer. I'm not a Trumpster. I'm not a Republican. I just like idiotic state policy.

Just messing with you.
The market didnt tell the business to stiff the workers.

Yeah, it did. You did. Would you spend $10 for a quarter pounder? If not, you're part of the problem.

I wouldnt spend 10 cents on a quarter pounder. That shit is horrible for your health.

Ok, so my point stands - burger flippers don't make very much because we don't value what they do very much.

No your point never stood. I value people that work to take care of their families and free up money for other people to use that really need it. (Welfare)

So you want a society as North korea

When did I mention North Korea?

What you just subscribed...that's just working for necessities and giving the rest away .

Your mind is stuck in binary mode because of the fear of loss big business is marketing to you. Its not either or. There is a happy medium where you can make profit and pay your employees $15 and hour. If you cant then you dont deserve to own a business.

In rural areas? Show me how the numbers work on that, Milkweed! I ran businesses. I understand what the margins are. I understand the difference between cities like New York and small towns in rural areas like North Dakota.

Even in rural areas. My spreadsheet is broken now and I am tired.

You need a spreadsheet to explain how the same minimum wage is going to work in areas that are night and day apart when it comes to cost of living?

Yes. There are more variables to it than just the cost of living.

There are...but let's start with that. How does a national minimum wage take into account the cost of living in different areas of the country?

Doesn't matter. $15 per hour would break many small businesses and cause LARGE companies to outsource,

I'm quite aware of that. It's why I want Milkweed to explain how it works. It's details like that that make the concept of a national minimum wage a non starter. This isn't about a rational solution to a problem though because even a cursory examination of the issue makes it rather obvious that it doesn't work.

The filthy Dems will pass it anyway. It won't take 60 votes. Budget reconciliation.

 

[peach174]

Why do the Dems keep passing the same stuff that doesn't work, thinking that it will this time,only it never does and creates more harm to lower income and fixed income people?
Talk about crazy

 

[dblack]

Why do the Dems keep passing the same stuff that doesn't work, thinking that it will this time,only it never does and creates more harm to lower income and fixed income people?
Talk about crazy

Because establishing wage and price controls is an important inroad to socialism.

 

[San Souci]

Why do the Dems keep passing the same stuff that doesn't work, thinking that it will this time,only it never does and creates more harm to lower income and fixed income people?
Talk about crazy

Because they are Communists.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Minimum wage is a horseshit issue. But, it stirs up the dummies and gives government more power - so it's irresistible to Democrats.

It is a horseshit issue
It should have been raised 10 years ago and future raises should be tied to inflation

You know why it wasn't? Because politicians are afraid of getting voted out of office for fucking up the economy.

Too late!

 

[Grumblenuts]

The Flood is Green

No "threshold" to that puppy!

{2016 data}

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Joe Biden, as do most economist wants to raise the min. wage to 15.00 an hour, from the poultry 7.25 as it stands today. Most workers of course do not make 7.25 an hour as we all know, most are making btwn 8-12 an hour, with 12.00 being the standard. However, this debate has got to come to an end and real work, not words have to prevail this time.

For the last 12 years Wall Street as has Main Street retailers via online venues, all have seen profits soar to historic levels and Trump rallied and braged on how rich the rich was getting especially his last 4 years, not only with tax cuts but with market growths...so this bullshit about ppl will lose jobs...tired of hearing about it.

And waiting on a recovery from this pandemic will take another decade, if not more with so many business's, closing. However, NOBODY AND I MEAN NOBODY WILL MAKE A DIME, OUTSIDE OF SPECULATORS AND HEDGE FUNDERS on WALL STREET, WITHOUT CONSUMER SPENDING.

Its time Biden, congress and the senate take the effort, the vote and raise the min. wage to a level that can not only help families regroup again with a new job focus, but also help business's grow also. Amazon raised wages profits only grew. Some companies will have to fold, welcome to life!! But at least the owner can go out and find a job paying 15 bucks an hour vs 7.25.

The State you live in can raise the wage and does not need the Federal Government to do it, so ask yourself why they have not done it?

The main reason why the left want the wage raised at the Federal level is to stop companies from leaving California for States like Texas where the wage is lower along with Taxes, so let cut the nonsense and just demand your State to raise the wage to that level and leave other States alone!

 

[Mac-7]

black people have to work twice as hard for room at the table and too often is paid less than whites.

Thats a ghetto myth

Guilt-ridden white liberals are falling over themselves to provide an open door for black people into the corporate world

 

[rightwinger]

Minimum wage is a horseshit issue. But, it stirs up the dummies and gives government more power - so it's irresistible to Democrats.

It is a horseshit issue
It should have been raised 10 years ago and future raises should be tied to inflation

You know why it wasn't? Because politicians are afraid of getting voted out of office for fucking up the economy.

Raising minimum wage does not fuk up the economy
Cutting corporate taxes by 40 percent did

Are you really - seriously - going to say that raising the minimum wage has no negative impact on the economy? To be clear, that's not really why I oppose it, but c'mon. You're that dumb, are you?

Then why not raise the MW to $100/hr and be done with poverty altogether? Answer that honestly and you'll be on the right track.

Because $15 is reasonable after 12 years with no increases
$100 is just silliness on your part

 

[rightwinger]

View attachment 452710

News flash alert....when I was 12 years old, White Castle hamburgers were 15CENTS, today they're a 1.25...now these burgers are about the size of a postage stamp and still are....but the world didn't end and the workers, actually make good wages....one more time, JUST PAY THE MAN, AUNT BEE.

When you where 12 we didn't have 20 million illegals in this country lowering wages

What jobs are illegals taking that is lowering the wages? I havent heard that one before.

LEGAL immigrants lower wages. I've seen that in my field. In the golden days of IT, the 80's and 90's, if you didn't like your job or wanted more money you could walk down the street for 20% more. Then Indian programmers started flooding the market, willing to work for a fraction of what American coders made. That's when I decided to move into database administration. It's much more specialized and has less pressure from well trained, low cost foreign workers.

I'm in IT and I have zero problems getting top dollar. You have to adapt and then stop whining about environment. Those people you are talking about are not illegal. They have green cards.

I'm in IT and I have zero problems getting top dollar. I saw the market changing and took steps to ensure my career didn't plateau too soon. Nobody's whining, I was pointing out that IT is one field that feels the effect of foreign competition. Now, are you going to get over your fear of answering a simple question or stay in the corner?

Says a white man, next?

The minimum wage laws are fucking racist anyways do you know how many blacks owned business in the 1930s ?

Jim Crow

 

[rightwinger]

Minimum wage is a horseshit issue. But, it stirs up the dummies and gives government more power - so it's irresistible to Democrats.

It is a horseshit issue
It should have been raised 10 years ago and future raises should be tied to inflation

You know why it wasn't? Because politicians are afraid of getting voted out of office for fucking up the economy.

Raising minimum wage does not fuk up the economy
Cutting corporate taxes by 40 percent did

You could not be more wrong but then again I have exposed your lack of financial acumen many times on this board.

We borrowed trillions of dollars to pay for corporate tax cuts
What did that do ?

 

[rightwinger]

Minimum wage is a horseshit issue. But, it stirs up the dummies and gives government more power - so it's irresistible to Democrats.

It is a horseshit issue
It should have been raised 10 years ago and future raises should be tied to inflation

You know why it wasn't? Because politicians are afraid of getting voted out of office for fucking up the economy.

Raising minimum wage does not fuk up the economy
Cutting corporate taxes by 40 percent did

Why would companies being able to investment more money into the economy... cause a problem in the economy? That makes no logical sense.

Further, I pretty sure I heard you in the past say that corporations were off shoring jobs out of the country, because labor is cheaper.......... now you are suggesting that increasing the cost of labor could not possibly harm the economy.

Do you not see those two claims are mutually exclusive?

Only those companies did not use the 40 percent tax cut to invest in the economy, they bought back stock

Guess what? The minimum wage worker will invest almost all of that $15 into the economy

 

[wamose]

Wait till you get the bill to bail out the pension systems in Cal. NY and Ill. Wait till you get the bill for border walls in foreign countries even as the idiot cancels ours. There's no way this ignoramus, Biden, will ever rise above the worst President of all time. He's already cemented that position and it only took 2 weeks.

 

[hadit]

Oh for gods sake. I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, I've worked hard since I was sixteen. I managed to survive and I get IT. I really DO! Raising the minim wage will NOT fix our economy. This is just a bone they throw to the dog. Its a empty short term bag of nothing.

" Raising the minim wage will NOT fix our economy. "

Who said it would by itself? The point is to pay people a wage they can survive on and raise their children so they dont repeat the cycle.

Businesses are not supposed to be welfare distribution centers. They exist to make a profit, and when you sharply increase the cost of labor, business takes steps to reduce that cost, and one of the things it does is lay workers off. Do you not think that would happen, that businesses would just happily accept the big increase in labor cost and do nothing about it? Keep in mind that the cost of a $15/hr job is a lot more than $15/hr.

" They exist to make a profit "

..and for that privilege they need to pay their share either in wages, taxes or both. You dont have a right to own a business if you cant pay the expenses of the environment

Then make it illegal for them to hire workers and force them to make that profit off their own labor.

Hmmm, now where have I heard of government and business working hand in hand before? I do hate to tell you this, but you absolutely have a right to own a business, full stop. Now, how long are you going to pretend you haven't seen the question that you are afraid to answer? See, I can play armchair psychiatrist too.

Show me where its written you can own a business without paying the required fees and costs of doing business.

I read what you said wrong. You are correct that they are required to pay licensing fees and taxes. My mistake. Now, as for businesses existing to make a profit, they absolutely do and should not be considered welfare distribution centers. If society wants to take care of people when they are not working, society should impose the taxes and send the checks.

 

[hadit]

View attachment 452710

News flash alert....when I was 12 years old, White Castle hamburgers were 15CENTS, today they're a 1.25...now these burgers are about the size of a postage stamp and still are....but the world didn't end and the workers, actually make good wages....one more time, JUST PAY THE MAN, AUNT BEE.

When you where 12 we didn't have 20 million illegals in this country lowering wages

What jobs are illegals taking that is lowering the wages? I havent heard that one before.

LEGAL immigrants lower wages. I've seen that in my field. In the golden days of IT, the 80's and 90's, if you didn't like your job or wanted more money you could walk down the street for 20% more. Then Indian programmers started flooding the market, willing to work for a fraction of what American coders made. That's when I decided to move into database administration. It's much more specialized and has less pressure from well trained, low cost foreign workers.

I'm in IT and I have zero problems getting top dollar. You have to adapt and then stop whining about environment. Those people you are talking about are not illegal. They have green cards.

I'm in IT and I have zero problems getting top dollar. I saw the market changing and took steps to ensure my career didn't plateau too soon. Nobody's whining, I was pointing out that IT is one field that feels the effect of foreign competition. Now, are you going to get over your fear of answering a simple question or stay in the corner?

The world is global now. Just because its foreign competition doesnt mean its illegal. Green cards are legal.

Notice that NOWHERE have I said anything about illegal. I'm just glad I'm at a point in my career where I can charge a premium price for my services.