Sick and tired of US debate on raising the min. wage.

[danielpalos]

higher paid labor creates more demand

More demand for what?

for your products and services. remember, money Talks and creates demand.

That's retarded. People aren't going to want my products more because I pay my employees more...

In other words, minimum wage employees are not statistically significant for you to bother complaining about.

 

[danielpalos]

Go baby! Race to the bottom!

Yep. And if someone else wants to "race to the bottom", where do you get off bullying them???

That's really what this is all about. It has absolutely nothing to do with helping the poor. In fact, it fucks the poorest of the poor by taking away their ability to compete. Minimum wage is a union inspired attempt to thwart competition in the labor market.

Because it means Big Government nanny-Statism will cost more and y'all will complain about taxes more.

 

[danielpalos]

You don't really have a clue when you're talking about the "multiplier"...do you, Daniel? You just heard from someone that it's a magic thing that fixes bad policy? Nancy Pelosi perhaps? You're the kind of economics challenged individual that she knows will buy the nonsense she's spouting.

A right winger typing on the Internet.

 

[danielpalos]

Because minimum wage is delusional at its core, and not everyone is as stupid as you.

You can't explain why you believe that. Right wingers whine about Big Government nanny-Statism and taxes all the time. Why repeat so many historical mistakes while alleging y'all are not really like that, afterward?

 

[rightwinger]

Minimum wage is a horseshit issue. But, it stirs up the dummies and gives government more power - so it's irresistible to Democrats.

It is a horseshit issue
It should have been raised 10 years ago and future raises should be tied to inflation

You know why it wasn't? Because politicians are afraid of getting voted out of office for fucking up the economy.

Raising minimum wage does not fuk up the economy
Cutting corporate taxes by 40 percent did

Why would companies being able to investment more money into the economy... cause a problem in the economy? That makes no logical sense.

Further, I pretty sure I heard you in the past say that corporations were off shoring jobs out of the country, because labor is cheaper.......... now you are suggesting that increasing the cost of labor could not possibly harm the economy.

Do you not see those two claims are mutually exclusive?

Only those companies did not use the 40 percent tax cut to invest in the economy, they bought back stock

Guess what? The minimum wage worker will invest almost all of that $15 into the economy

And how will the Minimum wage worker that loses his or her job invest the $0 that they will then be making? You don't care about THOSE people though...do you, Winger? The people with few job skills? The young people just starting out? Those are the people that will really be affected by this. You don't give a crap about them though...do you?

I‘m in my 60s and have heard that same “if we raise minimum wage, people will lose their job “ every time they raised the wage. didn’t happen
Market compensates

Sure, and how many times was it doubled overnight?

Never had to wait 12 years for an increase

Employers have benefitted from a frozen minimum wage all that time. They also received a 40 percent tax cut in 2017


We should have demanded a minimum wage increase at that time but Republicans said FUK the workers

Workers pay increased after that tax cut because the economy was so strong! They also had jobs with some of the lowest unemployment numbers we've ever seen! What you want to do is going to bring the economy to a halt and see unemployment numbers stay lousy for years! That's what we're going to see now with this ill thought out increase!

If employers had taken care of their lowest level employees for the last twelve years and given regular pay increases, they would not be impacted by this minimum wage increase

 

[danielpalos]

Only a small percentage of those affected adversely by the pandemic are of working age at all.

The vast majority of those who have croaked have been of very advanced years or otherwise very sick. My Irish friend who died of Corona was only 68 but was also suffering sugar diabetes, emphysema, severely infected feet, COPD as well as Stage 4 Liver Cancer. He wasn't big on working before he came down sick, he sure the hell wasn't going to work for min wage.

The point is, those who are not symptomatic can still spread it to others through social gatherings, and to those who are more susceptible.

 

[danielpalos]

Because the guy that has 15 people on his payroll will have to let 4 of them go.....so what will happen is the big guy chain shops will survive and small start up companies will disappear creating thousands of empty store fronts just like we saw in the Obama/Biden first term....

You are assuming he only uses minimum wage labor. Usually, minimum wage labor is statistically insignificant to the overall bottom line.

And, you are also assuming he won't pass on some costs to their consumers like they do for anything else they can get away with. It really does seem more like right wingers merely "hating on the Poor".

 

[rightwinger]

Because that turns businesses into welfare distribution centers. If society deems it important and correct to support everyone, society needs to collect the taxes and send the checks. And I know what you mean by Labor. You don't mean just those working or wanting to work.

That “welfare” is necessary because businesses do not take care of their own employees.
The taxpayers have to step in and support their employees for them.
In fact, the welfare WE pay is allowing those employers to maintain a low wage workforce

 

[danielpalos]

Corporate welfare?...just who do you think a higher min wage hurts?...it hurts the independent little guy....the big guy will find a go around after all his smaller up and coming competition is gone....and they will turn and donate to the people that made it possible...the dems and progs....

How many independent little guys have only minimum wage labor?

 

[danielpalos]

To pay more for the same

Even the dollar menu won't double even if the minimum wage does.

 

[Andylusion]

" we don't value what they do very much.

Liberals don't get how value is determined in a free society. It's determined by all of us. The reason burger flippers don't make much money is that we don't value what they do very much. If you force people to pay more to have their burgers flipped, many of them will choose to flip their own burgers. And burger flippers will be out of work.

Anyway, I suppose some of them do get this - but they don't like it. They want government to be in charge of setting wages and prices. That's what minimum wage is all about.

" we don't value what they do very much. "

Speak for yourself.

I don't have to. Society expresses itself clearly via the market. $10 quarter pounders won't sell. '

You Qannon believers dont value much be we do.

LOL - I'm not a Qanon believer. I'm not a Trumpster. I'm not a Republican. I just like idiotic state policy.

Just messing with you.
The market didnt tell the business to stiff the workers.

Yeah, it did. You did. Would you spend $10 for a quarter pounder? If not, you're part of the problem.

I wouldnt spend 10 cents on a quarter pounder. That shit is horrible for your health.

Ok, so my point stands - burger flippers don't make very much because we don't value what they do very much.

No your point never stood. I value people that work to take care of their families and free up money for other people to use that really need it. (Welfare)

So you want a society as North korea

When did I mention North Korea?

What you just subscribed...that's just working for necessities and giving the rest away .

Your mind is stuck in binary mode because of the fear of loss big business is marketing to you. Its not either or. There is a happy medium where you can make profit and pay your employees $15 and hour. If you cant then you dont deserve to own a business.

In rural areas? Show me how the numbers work on that, Milkweed! I ran businesses. I understand what the margins are. I understand the difference between cities like New York and small towns in rural areas like North Dakota.

Even in rural areas. My spreadsheet is broken now and I am tired.

You need a spreadsheet to explain how the same minimum wage is going to work in areas that are night and day apart when it comes to cost of living?

Yes. There are more variables to it than just the cost of living.

There are...but let's start with that. How does a national minimum wage take into account the cost of living in different areas of the country?

Doesn't matter. $15 per hour would break many small businesses and cause LARGE companies to outsource,

Or automate.

One big reason why McDonald’s is adding self-serve kiosks in a hurry

No, these kiosks at McDonald's are not because of the Fight For $15.

bigthink.com

 

[danielpalos]

Mega global corporations love costly government edicts like a higher wages and costly green energy regulations because they know that they can afford it and their competition can not....
That's why UPS and FedEx went along with the expensive regulations on trucks....five smaller shipping companies went under....the big guys survive....and now its turning into something that smells a lot like fascism.....where corporations team up with government to crush our freedom and choices in life....

Unlike corporate downsizing merely for the bottom line?

 

[danielpalos]

Liar we just had a thread on kroger shutting down two stores

Proof right wingers simply prefer to "hate on the Poor"? They could have simply passed on some of the costs to the consumer to stay competitive in that local area.

 

[jknowgood]

Joe Biden, as do most economist wants to raise the min. wage to 15.00 an hour, from the poultry 7.25 as it stands today. Most workers of course do not make 7.25 an hour as we all know, most are making btwn 8-12 an hour, with 12.00 being the standard. However, this debate has got to come to an end and real work, not words have to prevail this time.

For the last 12 years Wall Street as has Main Street retailers via online venues, all have seen profits soar to historic levels and Trump rallied and braged on how rich the rich was getting especially his last 4 years, not only with tax cuts but with market growths...so this bullshit about ppl will lose jobs...tired of hearing about it.

And waiting on a recovery from this pandemic will take another decade, if not more with so many business's, closing. However, NOBODY AND I MEAN NOBODY WILL MAKE A DIME, OUTSIDE OF SPECULATORS AND HEDGE FUNDERS on WALL STREET, WITHOUT CONSUMER SPENDING.

Its time Biden, congress and the senate take the effort, the vote and raise the min. wage to a level that can not only help families regroup again with a new job focus, but also help business's grow also. Amazon raised wages profits only grew. Some companies will have to fold, welcome to life!! But at least the owner can go out and find a job paying 15 bucks an hour vs 7.25.

from the poultry 7.25 as it stands today.

Some may consider it chickenfeed, But it's more than many deserve.

I'm glad you're all for increasing the buying power of teenagers, drop outs,

It doesn't help those on a fixed income a bit.

Only going to make life worse for them. Prices will skyrocket on everything. Then $15 will be like the minimum wage now.

 

[Andylusion]

Minimum wage is a horseshit issue. But, it stirs up the dummies and gives government more power - so it's irresistible to Democrats.

It is a horseshit issue
It should have been raised 10 years ago and future raises should be tied to inflation

You know why it wasn't? Because politicians are afraid of getting voted out of office for fucking up the economy.

Raising minimum wage does not fuk up the economy
Cutting corporate taxes by 40 percent did

Why would companies being able to investment more money into the economy... cause a problem in the economy? That makes no logical sense.

Further, I pretty sure I heard you in the past say that corporations were off shoring jobs out of the country, because labor is cheaper.......... now you are suggesting that increasing the cost of labor could not possibly harm the economy.

Do you not see those two claims are mutually exclusive?

Only those companies did not use the 40 percent tax cut to invest in the economy, they bought back stock

Guess what? The minimum wage worker will invest almost all of that $15 into the economy

And how will the Minimum wage worker that loses his or her job invest the $0 that they will then be making? You don't care about THOSE people though...do you, Winger? The people with few job skills? The young people just starting out? Those are the people that will really be affected by this. You don't give a crap about them though...do you?

I‘m in my 60s and have heard that same “if we raise minimum wage, people will lose their job “ every time they raised the wage. didn’t happen
Market compensates

Sure, and how many times was it doubled overnight?

Never had to wait 12 years for an increase

Employers have benefitted from a frozen minimum wage all that time. They also received a 40 percent tax cut in 2017


We should have demanded a minimum wage increase at that time but Republicans said FUK the workers

Workers pay increased after that tax cut because the economy was so strong! They also had jobs with some of the lowest unemployment numbers we've ever seen! What you want to do is going to bring the economy to a halt and see unemployment numbers stay lousy for years! That's what we're going to see now with this ill thought out increase!

If employers had taken care of their lowest level employees for the last twelve years and given regular pay increases, they would not be impacted by this minimum wage increase

If customers would pay higher prices for all their products and services, employers could pay workers more.

If the customer is not willing to pay $40 to have their lawn mowed, I can't pay you the employee $40 to mow their lawn.

This is problem with your logic. No employer, can pay you more money, just because you exist.

Which is again, goes back to what I've said a hundred times... the solution to you earning a low wage, is you finding higher value work to do.

 

[Andylusion]

Because that turns businesses into welfare distribution centers. If society deems it important and correct to support everyone, society needs to collect the taxes and send the checks. And I know what you mean by Labor. You don't mean just those working or wanting to work.

That “welfare” is necessary because businesses do not take care of their own employees.
The taxpayers have to step in and support their employees for them.
In fact, the welfare WE pay is allowing those employers to maintain a low wage workforce

How much welfare will be necessary when businesses lay off those employees and they earn zero?

 

[rightwinger]

Time for those businesses to start kicking over some of that tax cut to their employees

Perhaps it is.

But it's ignorant to believe that those businesses are simply going to accept it and let it adversely affect their bottom line. They won't. If their costs to do business increase, so will their prices...

Sucks being a businessman because.....Shit happens
That shit may include:
Increased rent
Increased cost of supplies
Increased taxes
Competition from other businesses

It may even include having to pay your employees more

Businesses adapt to “Shit happening”
If they can’t, they fail

 

[rightwinger]

If customers would pay higher prices for all their products and services, employers could pay workers more.

When we gave business a 40 percent cut in taxes...
I, as a customer, did not see a corresponding decrease in the price they were charging me.
They just kept the money

Not all profits get passed to the customer neither do all increases in costs

 

[Wyatt earp]

Because that turns businesses into welfare distribution centers. If society deems it important and correct to support everyone, society needs to collect the taxes and send the checks. And I know what you mean by Labor. You don't mean just those working or wanting to work.

That “welfare” is necessary because businesses do not take care of their own employees.
The taxpayers have to step in and support their employees for them.
In fact, the welfare WE pay is allowing those employers to maintain a low wage workforce

It's the opposite with out those jobs more people would be on welfare

 

[Wyatt earp]

Time for those businesses to start kicking over some of that tax cut to their employees

Perhaps it is.

But it's ignorant to believe that those businesses are simply going to accept it and let it adversely affect their bottom line. They won't. If their costs to do business increase, so will their prices...

Sucks being a businessman because.....Shit happens
That shit may include:
Increased rent
Increased cost of supplies
Increased taxes
Competition from other businesses

It may even include having to pay your employees more

Businesses adapt to “Shit happening”
If they can’t, they fail

No they move