Simple Point Missing in the Union threads

[PredFan]

After reading the pro-union posts here, I can only come to one conclusion:

Unions are the only way complete idiots can get raises.

 

[PredFan]

There is another problem with unions or public sector unions now as I understand this the unions negotiate there contracts with elected politicians. Now the politicians who give them the best deal generally get union backing and get elected and in return for this backing the unions get a even better deal next time around and the politicians get the union support again and we have this endless circle. Now am I the only one who sees a problem or conflict with unions both backing and supporting politicians that they end up negotiating contracts with?

No, you are not the only one.

 

[ClosedCaption]

There is another problem with unions or public sector unions now as I understand this the unions negotiate there contracts with elected politicians. Now the politicians who give them the best deal generally get union backing and get elected and in return for this backing the unions get a even better deal next time around and the politicians get the union support again and we have this endless circle. Now am I the only one who sees a problem or conflict with unions both backing and supporting politicians that they end up negotiating contracts with?

Campaign Finance Reform.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

So make everyone slave away is the answer! Race to the bottom!

So create a false dichotomy as a cogent argument!....Race to ignorance!

You're going to blame me for him using the term "slaving away"?

Your parable offends and negatively affects people who are responsible and accountable.

 

[SniperFire]

"The most basic sense of decency and respect for human rights dictates that there must be some mechanism by which the workers—the humans—can assert their interests."

It is called a contract.

And not one either party is forced into via collective bargaining laws.

 

[ClosedCaption]

After reading the pro-union posts here, I can only come to one conclusion:

Unions are the only way complete idiots can get raises.

No you are being simple. You know that if a single employee asks for a raise the company not only weighs the talent but also the cost to their bottom line. If you are going to ignore that fact and believe that collective bargaining is a bad thing then*shrug but the level of trust you put into corporations never is looked at as a slippery slope.

If the workers cannot turn to the government to protect them from the unrestrained predations of corporate capitalism, then the workers must find a way to protect themselves. Unless they plan to plunder the stores where they work for guns and start the revolution, then their best tool is a union. A strong union of workers, standing together, is in a position to bargain with a company, because a company needs employees in order to make money. Employees, alone, are in no position to bargain with a company, because employees need to eat.

A Company can treat employees horribly and guess what. They'll still have employees because people need money and companies pay it.

 

[buckeye45_73]

After reading the pro-union posts here, I can only come to one conclusion:

Unions are the only way complete idiots can get raises.

No you are being simple. You know that if a single employee asks for a raise the company not only weighs the talent but also the cost to their bottom line. If you are going to ignore that fact and believe that collective bargaining is a bad thing then*shrug but the level of trust you put into corporations never is looked at as a slippery slope.

If the workers cannot turn to the government to protect them from the unrestrained predations of corporate capitalism, then the workers must find a way to protect themselves. Unless they plan to plunder the stores where they work for guns and start the revolution, then their best tool is a union. A strong union of workers, standing together, is in a position to bargain with a company, because a company needs employees in order to make money. Employees, alone, are in no position to bargain with a company, because employees need to eat.

A Company can treat employees horribly and guess what. They'll still have employees because people need money and companies pay it.

Are you seriously this stupid? Yes companies should pay the employees what the company wants too. If the employees dont like it go get a job elsewhere. Look at tech companies, they want the employees so they have arcades and amusement parks there. If you're in a dead end job, you're gonna make dead end wages.......DOH!!!!!!!!!

So how much should the drive thought at McDonalds command? I mean it's worth the same as a marine biologist, is it not?

 

[ClosedCaption]

You guys are full of sarcasm but no reasonable answers to what happens when employees arent allowed to collectively bargain? Will that be benefit to you and your family? Do you think once the state budgets are balanced someone will give it back?

 

[SniperFire]

You guys are full of sarcasm but no reasonable answers to what happens when employees arent allowed to collectively bargain?

You are an idiot. A minority of workers in America 'collectively bargain.'

 

[PredFan]

After reading the pro-union posts here, I can only come to one conclusion:

Unions are the only way complete idiots can get raises.

No you are being simple. You know that if a single employee asks for a raise the company not only weighs the talent but also the cost to their bottom line. If you are going to ignore that fact and believe that collective bargaining is a bad thing then*shrug but the level of trust you put into corporations never is looked at as a slippery slope.

If the workers cannot turn to the government to protect them from the unrestrained predations of corporate capitalism, then the workers must find a way to protect themselves. Unless they plan to plunder the stores where they work for guns and start the revolution, then their best tool is a union. A strong union of workers, standing together, is in a position to bargain with a company, because a company needs employees in order to make money. Employees, alone, are in no position to bargain with a company, because employees need to eat.

A Company can treat employees horribly and guess what. They'll still have employees because people need money and companies pay it.

Probably wasting my time but here goes:

You want a raise you ask for it. If you are doing a good job for the company and the company knows that you could get a higher paying job then they will give you a raise. If they do not give you a raise then you have a decision to make. Do you stay there or do you get a better paying job. If you are getting paid the same as others ion your industry and at your level then you would have to be extraordinary to deserve a raise. If you are then the company will give you one. That is the leverage you have. If you want more money but you are already getting paid at or above the industry market rate then you should get more schooling and/or find another field of endeavor.

What you union sympathizers don't understand is that the jobs belong to the CORPORATIONS not to you. They can and should be able to determine the pay for that job. YOU do not get to determine the pay.

 

[buckeye45_73]

You guys are full of sarcasm but no reasonable answers to what happens when employees arent allowed to collectively bargain? Will that be benefit to you and your family? Do you think once the state budgets are balanced someone will give it back?

Again are you stupid or just retarded. I live in TN, we dont have unions, and guess what, people still live and make it. OMG who would have thought it. And it's not any different than Ohio a unionized state, except we dont have to pay dues to fat polish and italian mafia looking dudes.

 

[PredFan]

You guys are full of sarcasm but no reasonable answers to what happens when employees arent allowed to collectively bargain? Will that be benefit to you and your family? Do you think once the state budgets are balanced someone will give it back?

I've never been able to collectively bargain, and I've gotten raises at least every single year since I started in this field 30 years ago. Sometimes I have to ask, and sometimes they give us raises because the going rate for our profession has gone up. Lately we've been getting sizable raises because some big-time competition is moving into town.

So the answer to your question of what will happen is, you will have to work and make yourself valuable to the company. That I know is a scary thing to say to a Union Man.

Now as far as public sector workers, well there should never ever be any public sector unions. The people who work for the governments, should get the going rate for their field like everyone else, and should be fired for poor performance.

 

[buckeye45_73]

For Closed, also we have Fed Ex a non unionized delivery service and then there's UPS,a unionized delivery service and guess what not much difference in employees benefits or wages

Fedex vs. UPS Jobs: Purple Pays Better - PayScale Resources

OMG wages are better at the non unionized company. NO WAY, SAY it aint so, and more women work at the non unionized company, no way, you cant be serious, but seriously caption, you got owned

 

[Oddball]

You guys are full of sarcasm but no reasonable answers to what happens when employees arent allowed to collectively bargain? Will that be benefit to you and your family? Do you think once the state budgets are balanced someone will give it back?

I've never been able to collectively bargain, and I've gotten raises at least every single year since I started in this field 30 years ago. Sometimes I have to ask, and sometimes they give us raises because the going rate for our profession has gone up. Lately we've been getting sizable raises because some big-time competition is moving into town.

So the answer to your question of what will happen is, you will have to work and make yourself valuable to the company. That I know is a scary thing to say to a Union Man.

Now as far as public sector workers, well there should never ever be any public sector unions. The people who work for the governments, should get the going rate for their field like everyone else, and should be fired for poor performance.

I don't collectively bargain either...I bid.

If I ask too much and bust the budget I don't get the work.....If unforeseen extra work is required to complete the project, I need to cut a deal with the client to get paid for it.

Seems a lot of people would rather screech and bang on five gallon buckets in the streets rather than learn halfway decent negotiating skills.

 

[JimBowie1958]

People ain't sticks and bureaucrat unions are purely parasitic.

BTW, what do we call a bundle of sticks?...What is that a symbol of?

Whatever they are, they are all over the walls of the US Senate and on its seal.

Sometimes a symbol is just a symbol.

 

[JimBowie1958]

What you union sympathizers don't understand is that the jobs belong to the CORPORATIONS not to you.

To have a truly free market, it MUST be reasonably regulated, and in our democracy many people regard minimum wage laws to be part of a well regulated market.

I agree.

They can and should be able to determine the pay for that job. YOU do not get to determine the pay.

This is prettymuch the same argument that slavers made for keeping slavery. "Thems MAH slaves, and you dont get to determine how I get my workers or treat dem!"

Only, wait, we actually do.

You want to live in a third world country where people work 60 hours a week for subsistence wages, well go THERE. Dont bring that shit HERE.

 

[JimBowie1958]

You guys are full of sarcasm but no reasonable answers to what happens when employees arent allowed to collectively bargain? Will that be benefit to you and your family? Do you think once the state budgets are balanced someone will give it back?

I've never been able to collectively bargain, and I've gotten raises at least every single year since I started in this field 30 years ago. Sometimes I have to ask, and sometimes they give us raises because the going rate for our profession has gone up. Lately we've been getting sizable raises because some big-time competition is moving into town.

So the answer to your question of what will happen is, you will have to work and make yourself valuable to the company. That I know is a scary thing to say to a Union Man.

Now as far as public sector workers, well there should never ever be any public sector unions. The people who work for the governments, should get the going rate for their field like everyone else, and should be fired for poor performance.

I don't collectively bargain either...I bid.

If I ask too much and bust the budget I don't get the work.....If unforeseen extra work is required to complete the project, I need to cut a deal with the client to get paid for it.

Seems a lot of people would rather screech and bang on five gallon buckets in the streets rather than learn halfway decent negotiating skills.

And some would rather low bid a contract then make up the difference on cost over run provisions.

Others would rather bid on contracts the government bureacrats have already decided to give the private corporatin because they are friends and they want to have their friends work that job.

Sometimes a corporation will hire former government workers and leave the impresion that they might one day work for that corporation too after retiring if they play ball with them, etc.

Winning government contracts is not the clean honest competition that you present here, and you should know that.

 

[JimBowie1958]

You guys are full of sarcasm but no reasonable answers to what happens when employees arent allowed to collectively bargain? Will that be benefit to you and your family? Do you think once the state budgets are balanced someone will give it back?

There is no reason to have unionized government workers, in fact there are many reasons to NOT let them unionize.

Walker did a good thing here, but lets see if he stops with just government workers.

 

[konradv]

You guys are full of sarcasm but no reasonable answers to what happens when employees arent allowed to collectively bargain?

You are an idiot. A minority of workers in America 'collectively bargain.'

Yeah, and wages have stagnated over the years. Coincidence?

 

[konradv]

People ain't sticks and bureaucrat unions are purely parasitic.

BTW, what do we call a bundle of sticks?...What is that a symbol of?

E pluribus unum, what does that mean?